Looking to get foreign satellite for a pub

clio_16v

Just wondering what are my options? What games etc will i get? Is there UK and Irish Horse Racing on them? Should I keep Sky on the basic package or could I get rid of it completely?

Newtown90

For Horse Racing I would have to say you stick with Sky mate, there is some racing broadcast on 26 east on one of the Dubai Channels, Canal+ Sport ( Csat ) show the big meetings from England ( Cheltenham, Aintree, Ascot ) and you get some feeds but neither would be good enough for a Pub.

Regarding the soccer. Not many broadcast with English commentary anymore.

PLTV HD is very good on 10 East and has english commentary.

Sky DE, Digital + and Csat all carry their own languages.

Nova is the same broadcasting in Greek.

Tring is an option on 16 east but the picture quality ain't great plus they are renowned for messing up 3 pm kick offs.

JSC on 13 east and Cyfra HD are the 2 cards most people I know on here have.

JSC covers all foreign footie ( Spanish, Italian, some Scottish, French, Champs Lg, Europa Lg, Dutch, International games ) and usually carries English commentary.

Cyfra HD broadcasts in Polish but is the cheapest card to watch the Premier League on.

recyclebin

Glenviewjf wrote: »

PLTV HD is very good on 10 East and has english commentary.

Can this be got legally? I don't think you can buy a subscription for it.

Everything else Glenviewjf has said is spot on if you were viewing the subscription in your own home. Showing it in a pub is a different matter as the Premier League has copyright on their logos and other stuff.

Newtown90

recyclebin wrote: »

Can this be got legally? I don't think you can buy a subscription for it.

Everything else Glenviewjf has said is spot on if you were viewing the subscription in your own home. Showing it in a pub is a different matter as the Premier League has copyright on their logos and other stuff.

Ya your right *cough* )

iba

clio_16v wrote: »

Just wondering what are my options? What games etc will i get? Is there UK and Irish Horse Racing on them? Should I keep Sky on the basic package or could I get rid of it completely?

As previous poster has said, Cyfra is pretty much teh best in my opinion - you can buy cards from www.satskelp.pl

The commentary however is not in English but there are ways to sync it with an English radio broadcast

clio_16v

Maybe I should have clarified that it needs to be legal for me to show them! I could just stream on my laptop and connect it to a TV if I wanted to go down that route. I know another pub in my town has a Norweigan TV station (I think?) and they show games we don't have.

snaps

clio_16v wrote: »

Maybe I should have clarified that it needs to be legal for me to show them! I could just stream on my laptop and connect it to a TV if I wanted to go down that route. I know another pub in my town has a Norweigan TV station (I think?) and they show games we don't have.

seems a lot of pubs now are dumping satellite feeds and getting in iptv boxes. 2 in my town have the Norwegian setup now via iptv.
The legal side of this is all very iffy. Your breaking terms and conditions of the provider, but its all a can of worms now that's been opened due to European coutcases.
Sky have the rights for uk/ire, they are massivly overpriced for us in Ireland, strangely they charge more here (population of 5m) compared to UK (population 65m) for their services.

iba

clio_16v wrote: »

Maybe I should have clarified that it needs to be legal for me to show them! I could just stream on my laptop and connect it to a TV if I wanted to go down that route. I know another pub in my town has a Norweigan TV station (I think?) and they show games we don't have.

Using Cyfra is not illegal

iba

snaps wrote: »

seems a lot of pubs now are dumping satellite feeds and getting in iptv boxes. 2 in my town have the Norwegian setup now via iptv.
The legal side of this is all very iffy. Your breaking terms and conditions of the provider, but its all a can of worms now that's been opened due to European coutcases.
Sky have the rights for uk/ire, they are massivly overpriced for us in Ireland, strangely they charge more here (population of 5m) compared to UK (population 65m) for their services.

Hi Snaps,

Happy New Year to you.

Where can I read more about that set-up please?

Thanks

snaps

iba wrote: »

Hi Snaps,

Happy New Year to you.

Where can I read more about that set-up please?

Thanks

if your talking iptv then im not sure. Marconi digital sent me info on an iptv box they were doing this year.
Tring sports is the best value but worst picture quality.
Cyfra and al jazeera are the best and cheapest choice.
Its possibly not the best time to be getting a subscription, as we are waiting on an announcement on which providers will be showing epl next season onwards.

snaps

iba wrote: »

Using Cyfra is not illegal

it possibly is in a public place. Not at home.

clio_16v

I've been told I can get a German system or an Albanian one by a guy who installs them. Which is best?

Douglas Eegit

I really wouldn't budge until late in the summer. The current premier league rights will be renewed for foreign providers in the summer so then it will be easier to plan.
I currently have tring (Albanian) and sky uk. I have found a lot of people like the analysis and English commentary that sky have to offer.
Tring is only used for all matches that are not on ordinary source but it has every game except sat 3pm but will defer these until 5pm fwiw. But as mentioned English commentary but cat picture. You get used to it...... Eventually.
Strong rumours around that jsc will completely change next year but there is always a workaround.

End of the day, wait until August before deciding!

iba

clio_16v wrote: »

I've been told I can get a German system or an Albanian one by a guy who installs them. Which is best?

Tring is the Albanian one, dont know the German one

Could do a 6 month subscription to Cyfra to tie you over till after the summer

STB

snaps wrote: »

it possibly is in a public place. Not at home.

Its not illegal. It is a Polish based service. Poland is part of Europe. The outcome of the Murphy case allows for the sale of the service within Europe.

The not so grey areas now is the copyright infringement involving the premier league logo.

UncleBuck

I was looking for something like this for my uncles pub a few months back. I found a guy who told me its legal because of a ruling in the UK. So we got it put in, 2 weeks later letter in the door with informing us that its illegal. The guy who installed it told us to ignore the letters. So we did, then a solicitors letter. Now we have another letter from another tv channel threatening legal action. So now we have 2 sets of legal letters coming to us. We dont want to have to pay for a solicitor, do you think we can just take it out and we can leave it at that ? Anybody else in a situation like this?

STB

UncleBuck wrote: »

I was looking for something like this for my uncles pub a few months back. I found a guy who told me its legal because of a ruling in the UK. So we got it put in, 2 weeks later letter in the door with informing us that its illegal. The guy who installed it told us to ignore the letters. So we did, then a solicitors letter. Now we have another letter from another tv channel threatening legal action. So now we have 2 sets of legal letters coming to us. We dont want to have to pay for a solicitor, do you think we can just take it out and we can leave it at that ? Anybody else in a situation like this?

What broadcaster is he using ? Are there cards in these receivers ?

A lot of fly by nights are using the Murphy case to sell illegal boxes AND not boxes with legitimate if foreign subscriptions.

Who wrote the initial letter ? And what TV Channel wrote to you - TV channels dont write to people unless someone is lifting their service without paying them ?

Whilst Karen Murphy won her case about the freedom to buy a package within Europe, it is the supposed infringement of the PL graphics usage that is now being used as the breach of copyright along with public performance of same, something that may be raised with the ECJ fairly soon. You should read this site which contains sample letters etc and also look at Daniel Geey's (associate in Field Fisher Waterhouse LLP’s Competition and EU Regulatory Law Group) website, who is a bit of an expert in the area.

For any other queries you should consult with a solicitor as this is not a legal advice forum.

banie01

STB wrote: »

Its not illegal. It is a Polish based service. Poland is part of Europe. The outcome of the Murphy case allows for the sale of the service within Europe.

The not so grey areas now is the copyright infringement involving the premier league logo.

Is it not the case that whilst it is not illegal to use any EU based supplier, that one must used that foreign providers ''Commercial'' service?
i.e A domestic foreign card used in a pub or similar setting would be illegal, but a ''commercial'' foreign card in such a setting is not?

STB

banie01 wrote: »

Is it not the case that whilst it is not illegal to use any EU based supplier, that one must used that foreign providers ''Commercial'' service?
i.e A domestic foreign card used in a pub or similar setting would be illegal, but a ''commercial'' foreign card in such a setting is not?

Yes she did use a domestic card in a commercial setting. But she may have been precluded (and may still be )from buying a commercial one which may prove to be anti competitive. Given that the ECJ have ruled on the access to foreign cards for domestic use, one might interpret that it may not have to rule on the other. It is also unclear whether commercial cards are available in other countries given they may not have the same bar culture. It would seem to me that for the moment that the PL is relying on prosecuting (or at least threathening to) anyone who does infringe the IP of their embedded logos etc. By ensuring that its branding is on screen all the time, or including in-match graphics, the PL may be able to claim pubs are in breach of this ECJ ruling on copyright.

Daniel Geey explains it better than I could...

What happens however if Mrs Murphy argues that she would have purchased a commercial decoder subscription, but was restricted by the Greek national broadcaster who was following the apparently anti-competitive contractual stipulations imposed by the PL? Whereas the CJEU appears satisfied that broadcast of a private, domestic subscription to a public venue in another Member State country is a further communication to the public, would the same apply if Murphy had bought a commercial Greek subscription?

An unanswered question is whether Murphy may argue in the future that she was prevented from purchasing a Greek commercial subscription and therefore the CJEU needs to consider whether such a subscription would be a further communication to the public under the Copyright Directive. Murphy would no doubt argue that the PL authorised the Greek broadcaster to sell the commercial subscription in Greece and therefore no further communication to the public would occur when that broadcast was shown in the UK.

iba

UncleBuck wrote: »

I was looking for something like this for my uncles pub a few months back. I found a guy who told me its legal because of a ruling in the UK. So we got it put in, 2 weeks later letter in the door with informing us that its illegal. The guy who installed it told us to ignore the letters. So we did, then a solicitors letter. Now we have another letter from another tv channel threatening legal action. So now we have 2 sets of legal letters coming to us. We dont want to have to pay for a solicitor, do you think we can just take it out and we can leave it at that ? Anybody else in a situation like this?

I wonder if you were given an ADMC Sport IPTV which would not be allowed here

Would like to know more details of the package you received? Have you got a website of teh installer?

Rethorical question but I dont understand how a TV company would be able to determine what is coming through your internet connection?

iba

banie01 wrote: »

Is it not the case that whilst it is not illegal to use any EU based supplier, that one must used that foreign providers ''Commercial'' service?
i.e A domestic foreign card used in a pub or similar setting would be illegal, but a ''commercial'' foreign card in such a setting is not?

Interesting point, but as far as I can tell, Cyfra for example, do not offer a comercial package.

So if a provider is only offering one type of package, where does that leave the consumer?

Interesting point made too by STB about the Premiership logo (and anthem) but I dont think it would hold up in the CJEU, but at the moment, I do not think there is a case going-on about this.

STB

iba wrote: »

Interesting point made too by STB about the Premiership logo (and anthem) but I dont think it would hold up in the CJEU, but at the moment, I do not think there is a case going-on about this.

If one could buy a foreign commercial card legitimately it might not hold up. For now this seems to be the infringement being used if using a domestic card in a commercial setting.

iba

STB wrote: »

If one could buy a foreign commercial card legitimately it might not hold up. For now this seems to be the infringement being used if using a domestic card in a commercial setting.

Would love to learn how to take screen shots like that

Just reading this website: http://www.pubfootballuk.co.uk/index.html

packages there seem to be legit, what do you think - it seems to me that only ADMC packages are not allowed?

UncleBuck

I am not too sure what the system is, i will find out in a couple of weeks when i am back in the pub. From what i know it is along the lines of copyright, i have to go to the solicitor and see what he says. Which is a serious pain in the hole for me right now, its really something i dont need.
With regards the companies involved, i am not going to go into too much detail until i speak with the solicitor but lets say one is English and one is Irish.
When i get back down there i am going to pop into other pubs and see if they have received anything, will keep you all posted.

iba

UncleBuck wrote: »

I am not too sure what the system is, i will find out in a couple of weeks when i am back in the pub. From what i know it is along the lines of copyright, i have to go to the solicitor and see what he says. Which is a serious pain in the hole for me right now, its really something i dont need.
With regards the companies involved, i am not going to go into too much detail until i speak with the solicitor but lets say one is English and one is Irish.
When i get back down there i am going to pop into other pubs and see if they have received anything, will keep you all posted.

Perhaps you can place the blame on the installer - especially if he is a legit company - how are you to know that a proper company is giving you illegal stuff

Zardoz

There is some software out there that blocks out all the logos in matches with ads.
The Premier league recently lost an appeal trying to close the TV Ad tech system down.
http://www.morningadvertiser.co.uk/General-News/Premier-League-loses-appeal-over-video-replays-in-football-broadcasts#
This could be the catalyst for some other logo blocking software to be released.

Clareman

iba wrote: »

Would love to learn how to take screen shots like that

Stream the channel onto your PC using VLC Player and use the sniping tool in most of the later versions of Windows, simples

banie01

Clareman wrote: »

Stream the channel onto your PC using VLC Player and use the sniping tool in most of the later versions of Windows, simples

Or just use the screenshot function via the WebIF.

iba

Clareman wrote: »

Stream the channel onto your PC using VLC Player and use the sniping tool in most of the later versions of Windows, simples

Thanks - Ill give it a go - Ive never streamed from TV to PC

iba

banie01 wrote: »

Or just use the screenshot function via the WebIF.

No idea how to do that either, but Ill try it too

Finne1993

Does anyone know if Sky have prosecuted or are able to prosecute Publicans who show matches on foreign Satellite systems here in Ireland? I have done a lot of searching and all I can seem to find is prosecutions where the publican has used a domestic card in a commercial premises.

I just happened to get talking to a publican the other day who got a letter from Sky's solicitors in Dublin threatening prosecution if he didn't take out a commercial subscription or signs a disclaimer saying he will take Sky out.

He can't afford a commercial sub so the sky is gone and he already has Al Jazeera and bulsatcom in the pub, is it possible he will still face prosecution for showing these subs?

There seems to be some kind of grey area regarding the use of these because I know numerous pubs that are using foreign subs, it seems to be widespread all over the country and no sign of prosecutions or maybe they're on the way??

brian_gall85

Don't quote me on this, but I believe that all subs for use in a pub have to be commercial ones, regardless of which provider you are using.

iba

brian_gall85 wrote: »

Don't quote me on this, but I believe that all subs for use in a pub have to be commercial ones, regardless of which provider you are using.

Yes becaus. Of the sub providers terms and conditions

Finne1993

I've read that quoted on other threads and I get that part of it but who is there to police it? The other providers don't have agents over here I'm sure!
I just saw the letter the publican got and it specifically mentions using a domestic Sky card in a commercial premises. No mention of foreign providers, that's why I'm wondering have Sky prosecuted anyone here with regards using a foreign sub?
The publican reckons it could have been Bulsat that he showed the match on!
I suppose these are questions for a solicitor but it would be interesting if anyone here can shed some light on the subject!

iba

Finne1993 wrote: »

I've read that quoted on other threads and I get that part of it but who is there to police it? The other providers don't have agents over here I'm sure!
I just saw the letter the publican got and it specifically mentions using a domestic Sky card in a commercial premises. No mention of foreign providers, that's why I'm wondering have Sky prosecuted anyone here with regards using a foreign sub?
The publican reckons it could have been Bulsat that he showed the match on!
I suppose these are questions for a solicitor but it would be interesting if anyone here can shed some light on the subject!

Sky would only be concerned about their own cards. None of their business if the publican is using a foreign sub and breaking that providers terms and conditions. But sky may have reported it to the other provider.

Zardoz

iba wrote: »

Sky would only be concerned about their own cards. None of their business if the publican is using a foreign sub and breaking that providers terms and conditions. But sky may have reported it to the other provider.

That is not the case.
Sky have threatened alot of pubs using a foreign sub to show the EPL that they will take legal action against them unless they take out a commercial Sky licence.
Their reasoning is that Sky hold the UK and Ireland rights to the EPL and using a foreign sub to view the EPL is illegal in their eyes.

I am not sure if this is just an idle threat to try and scare the pub into taking out a commercial licence or whether Sky will actually follow through with legal action.
I dont think Sky's legal basis in Ireland is anywhere as strong as it is in the UK.

iba

Zardoz wrote: »

That is not the case.
Sky have threatened alot of pubs using a foreign sub to show the EPL that they will take legal action against them unless they take out a commercial Sky licence.
Their reasoning is that Sky hold the UK and Ireland rights to the EPL and using a foreign sub to view the EPL is illegal in their eyes.

I am not sure if this is just an idle threat to try and scare the pub into taking out a commercial licence or whether Sky will actually follow through with legal action.
I dont think Sky's legal basis in Ireland is anywhere as strong as it is in the UK.

Zardoz
On that basis it would be illegal to use the cyfra cards from Poland too at home but it is not.
If you have any links to all these many pubs been taken to court for using continental Europe subs can you please post them as I would very much like to read them.
Regards

Zardoz

iba wrote: »

Zardoz
On that basis it would be illegal to use the cyfra cards from Poland too at home but it is not.
If you have any links to all these many pubs been taken to court for using continental Europe subs can you please post them as I would very much like to read them.
Regards

Watching a foreign sub in a private residence isnt an issue.
It is the convoluted infringement of the PL graphics usage along with public performance of the same that is now being deemed as the breach of copyright .

There are links in this thread to letters sent to pubs in the Uk asking them to desist showing foreign subs if you wish to see them .
The letters seem to be from the EPL.
I dont know if any pubs in Ireland have received these letters .

Coupled with the EPL letters ,Sky also send out letters to pubs if the pub doesn't have a commercial licence for Sky and is showing Sky channels.
This is obviously a breach of rights so they will take legal proceedings .

Some Irish pubs showing foreign subs only have been threatened with legal action unless they take out a commercial Sky licence .
I dont know if this is an empty threat though .

AHireland2k11

Glenviewjf wrote: »

For Horse Racing I would have to say you stick with Sky mate, there is some racing broadcast on 26 east on one of the Dubai Channels, Canal+ Sport ( Csat ) show the big meetings from England ( Cheltenham, Aintree, Ascot ) and you get some feeds but neither would be good enough for a Pub.

Regarding the soccer. Not many broadcast with English commentary anymore.

PLTV HD is very good on 10 East and has english commentary.

Sky DE, Digital + and Csat all carry their own languages.

Nova is the same broadcasting in Greek.

Tring is an option on 16 east but the picture quality ain't great plus they are renowned for messing up 3 pm kick offs.

JSC on 13 east and Cyfra HD are the 2 cards most people I know on here have.

JSC covers all foreign footie ( Spanish, Italian, some Scottish, French, Champs Lg, Europa Lg, Dutch, International games ) and usually carries English commentary.

Cyfra HD broadcasts in Polish but is the cheapest card to watch the Premier League on.

Does pltv show 3 o clock kick offs

AHireland2k11

iba wrote: »

As previous poster has said, Cyfra is pretty much teh best in my opinion - you can buy cards from www.satskelp.pl

The commentary however is not in English but there are ways to sync it with an English radio broadcast

How do you sync with English radio broadcast?

AHireland2k11

iba wrote: »

Hi Snaps,

Happy New Year to you.

Where can I read more about that set-up please?

Thanks

Are iptv streams good quality?

STB.

The thread is 2 years old. All the information is out of date. Long and short of it is that any foreign football shown in a pub is actually illegal. The other broadcasters in europe broadcast in their own language and not in english. The only people who police it are reps on behalf of Sky as Sky own the some of the rights leased from the Premier League (whose logos are copyrighted) for Ireland and UK.

snaps

How about FTA broadcasts? Can they be shown publically?

STB.

snaps wrote: »

How about FTA broadcasts? Can they be shown publically?

Of course. Free to Air is just that, regardless of the audience setting.

What is happening in effect these days is that Sky reps visit pubs, identify those using CS/Non subbed Sport and then get a sign up from the publican to avoid prosecution. The pubs can then do what they want. They now have scanable bar codes on the windows.