Can SF transform into a leading party in next 5-10 years?

Slideshowbob

As I see it, SF are now in prime position to claim the social republican area of the political spectrum in the coming years.

What they have going for them:
- people under 30 only know SF as peacemakers
- they are not tainted by boom/bust (FF),or austerity (FG/Lab).

What their weaknesses are:
- their lack of experience
- naivety when it comes to economics

Granted elements of them may have a shady past (much is said but not much forthright evidence), but we all have pasts if we go back far enough.

If they can overcome their weaknesses, are they bound to become one of the two top parties in the next 10 years and protemtially lead a coalition government?

barney 20v

Slideshowbob wrote: »

As I see it, SF are now in prime position to claim the social republican area of the political spectrum in the coming years.

What they have going for them:
- people under 30 only know SF as peacemakers
- they are not tainted by boom/bust (FF),or austerity (FG/Lab).

What their weaknesses are:
- their lack of experience
- naivety when it comes to economics

Granted elements of them may have a shady past (much is said but not much forthright evidence), but we all have pasts if we go back far enough.

If they can overcome their weaknesses, are they bound to become one of the two top parties in the next 10 years and protemtially lead a coalition government?

No. And they never should be allowed into government in this state

vagabond2013

Barny 20v open your eyes wake up and smell the coffee..

they democratically are sitting in the dail..
they are winning increasingly more votes at each election and growing in poularity..
if you look at other parties currently in power and previously you will see nothing but crooks who have pulled the wool over this countries eyes for many years while lining their own pockets and recieving a nice fat healthy pension plan not to mention the mess they have us in now or what they have done with the banks.
they are holding this country to ransom and making ordinary hard working citizens pay for their greed and mistakes..
in previous years i voted for other parties .. Not anymore... i hope they gain power and turn this country around make it a farer place to live.. its about time we had a different prospective on the running of this country and i for one think they will do a better job

barney 20v

vagabond2013 wrote: »

Barny 20v open your eyes wake up and smell the coffee..

they democratically are sitting in the dail..
they are winning increasingly more votes at each election and growing in poularity..
if you look at other parties currently in power and previously you will see nothing but crooks who have pulled the wool over this countries eyes for many years while lining their own pockets and recieving a nice fat healthy pension plan not to mention the mess they have us in now or what they have done with the banks.
they are holding this country to ransom and making ordinary hard working citizens pay for their greed and mistakes..
in previous years i voted for other parties .. Not anymore... i hope they gain power and turn this country around make it a farer place to live.. its about time we had a different prospective on the running of this country and i for one think they will do a better job

They are sitting sniping cuts by the current government while at the same time enforcing more drastic measures in Northern Ireland .
They're economic policies are laughable at best.
And don't presume that I am pro any other party just because I object to sinn fein. But mentioning crooks, does the northern Ireland bank robbery ring a bell ?

vagabond2013

i dont presume anything i was merely putting my point across which after all is what this site is all about..

As for sniping wasn't it Enda Kenny who was snipping at Sinn Fein in the dail only 2 weeks ago??
not exactly the behaviour you would expect from a party leader and supposed leader of this country.. so i guess your saying the current governments tactics reforms and extreme cut backs are not laughable or more to the point ridiculous and extremely damaging to family's of this country, so much so that most of our college educated and skilled workers have to leave the country just to survive

oscarBravo

I can see them making gains until they end up in coalition. It could be a while, though.

Their fate once that happens will be an interesting one. Their experience of politics in the Republic to date has been one of opposition, which is a relatively easy role to play; you just criticise pretty much everything the government does, and tell the electorate what they want to hear. Being in government is a lot harder, as they've found in Northern Ireland. As a junior coalition partner, they are likely to suffer the same fate as their predecessors the PDs and the Greens (and possibly, it remains to be seen, Labour) - taking the blame for having to make the difficult decisions that are part and parcel of running a country and that are so easy to criticise from the sidelines.

barney 20v

vagabond2013 wrote: »

i dont presume anything i was merely putting my point across which after all is what this site is all about.. as for sniping wasnt it Enda Kenny who was snipping at sinn fein in the dail only 2 weeks ago?? not exactly what you would expect from a party leader and supossed leader of this country..

No supposing , he IS the leader....

They are sitting sniping cuts by the current government while at the same time enforcing more drastic measures in Northern Ireland .

Explain this one, OP.

Austerity is just a fancy word for "we're spending a lot more than we have," all based on the property bubble put in place by the other party whose foundation is based entirely on a United Ireland - FF.

Maybe, at best, they can enter at some point into a coalition as the junior partner, and once they lose the ability to spout absolute rubbish without having to act on it I would imagine their voter base would shrink dramatically.

What would you imagine SF to be doing right now were they in power? Raising the dole? Slashing taxes? Paid for with what, exactly?

enda1

Sinn Féin are a non starter as a major political in the same way as the greens are as they are a single interest party. They will always appeal to the radical few and win some reactionary votes, but will not appeal to the masses until they become interested in the issues of this country.

Ghandee

barney 20v wrote: »

They are sitting sniping cuts by the current government while at the same time enforcing more drastic measures in Northern Ireland .

I'm sorry, could you give me an example?

Roger_007

Sinn Fein are in the happy position of being able to rubbish all government policies and promote their own 'fantasy' economics safe in the knowledge that they will never have to deliver on their rhetoric. This will attract support from those who do not wish to acknowledge the fact that we are broke and we will just have to live within our means in future. Sinn Fein are simply the new Fianna Fail, i.e. they stand for nothing except getting as many votes as possible.

barney 20v

Ghandee wrote: »

I'm sorry, could you give me an example?

I could give many,as can any right minded person looking at sf operating in the Dail in 2012

vagabond2013

i would imagine Sinn Fein to run this country in a farer manner.. raising the dole? slashing taxes? not at all but id expect them to make cuts that do not lead to extreme hardship for some families.. or to at least make some effort to reduce the amount of our children from emigrating by creating jobs.. if they took a leaf out of our next door neighbours book they would see this is not that difficult there are plenty of opertunities for job creation if they only cut through the red tape brick walls and bull**** they consistantly put in place

barney 20v

vagabond2013 wrote: »

i would imagine Sinn Fein to run this country in a farer manner.. raising the dole? slashing taxes? not at all but id expect them to make cuts that do not lead to extreme hardship for some families.. or to at least make some effort to reduce the amount of our children from emigrating by creating jobs.. if they took a leaf out of our next door neighbours book they would see this is not that difficult there are plenty of opertunities for job creation if they only cut through the red tape brick walls and bull**** they consistantly put in place

Such as?

vagabond2013

vagabond2013 wrote: »

i would imagine Sinn Fein to run this country in a farer manner.. raising the dole? slashing taxes? not at all but id expect them to make cuts that do not lead to extreme hardship for some families.. or to at least make some effort to reduce the amount of our children from emigrating by creating jobs.. if they took a leaf out of our next door neighbours book they would see this is not that difficult there are plenty of opertunities for job creation if they only cut through the red tape brick walls and bull**** they consistantly put in place

What cuts would you expect them to make, then? Giz an auld example..

vagabond2013

ha ha oh how you make me laugh.. if they cant figure that much out themselves then they really shouldnt be in power...

barney 20v

vagabond2013 wrote: »

ha ha oh how you make me laugh.. if they cant figure that much out themselves then they really shouldnt be in power...

Who do you refer to?

enda1

vagabond2013 wrote: »

i would imagine Sinn Fein to run this country in a farer manner.. raising the dole? slashing taxes? not at all but id expect them to make cuts that do not lead to extreme hardship for some families.. or to at least make some effort to reduce the amount of our children from emigrating by creating jobs.. if they took a leaf out of our next door neighbours book they would see this is not that difficult there are plenty of opertunities for job creation if they only cut through the red tape brick walls and bull**** they consistantly put in place

Be careful, there are only so many buzzwords per day permissible before boards runs out of its quota!

Any chance of explaining how to create jobs?
And how Sinn Féin would do it?
How about what cuts they would make?
In fact could you define what you mean by fair as you see it? After all fair is not an absolute term and everyone has there own definition.

gaffer91

What you list in the OP as advantages for SF are undoubtedly true, alas.

Couple of big problems I see for SF in the short to medium term:

1. A lot of people particularly the older voters will remember them from when they were the political wing of a terrorist organisation, with many of the current leadership also being ex-terrorists.

2. I think for young people coming up and becoming politically aware nowadays, the whole notion of a United Ireland is simply not particularly important to them (although I could be wrong about this).

3. I would say SF are transfer toxic still to a certain extent-although this seems to have improved for them in the last election, SF's seeming devotion to radical nationalism and crippling taxation of the middle and upper middle classes would be very unappealing to many voters.

4. SF politicians almost invariably look like clueless anti-intellectuals when they are debating anything which will come against them in an election campaign which is often when many voters make their final decision.

Ghandee

barney 20v wrote: »

I could give many,as can any right minded person looking at sf operating in the Dail in 2012

Please do.

barney 20v wrote: »

Such as?

I've asked you that already.

barney 20v

Ghandee wrote: »

Please do.


I've asked you that already.

Incorrect , you asked for examples of sniping ...I asked for examples of policies to create employment like our neighbours .... Try to keep up!

vagabond2013

Firstly i do not work for sinn fein or any political party.. these are just my views.. 2nd if i tell you how to create jobs i would be putting myself out of a business.. that one you can figure out for yourself.. but i will say one thing.. why has nama not finished off the empty derelict buildings that are all over this country..or at least some of them, firstly it would create jobs to out of work construction workers..
then they could be rented out to people who need them ie homeless people or overcrowded homes..
at least they would get some of the money back in rents..
fair covers a broad range of topics.. crime.. dole cuts.. education cuts.. cuts to health care the list is ENDAless

barney 20v

vagabond2013 wrote: »

Firstly i do not work for sinn fein or any political party.. these are just my views.. 2nd if i tell you how to create jobs i would be putting myself out of a business.. that one you can figure out for yourself.. but i will say one thing.. why has nama not finished off the empty derelict buildings that are all over this country..or at least some of them, firstly it would create jobs to out of work construction workers..
then they could be rented out to people who need them ie homeless people or overcrowded homes..
at least they would get some of the money back in rents..
fair covers a broad range of topics.. crime.. dole cuts.. education cuts.. cuts to health care the list is ENDAless

So finish nama buildings so we can rent them to homeless people...... And who will pay to finish these buildings and who will pay the rent?
I'm glad you decided not to enlighten us with your full wisdom...

gaffer91

vagabond2013 wrote: »

Firstly i do not work for sinn fein or any political party.. these are just my views.. 2nd if i tell you how to create jobs i would be putting myself out of a business.. that one you can figure out for yourself.. but i will say one thing.. why has nama not finished off the empty derelict buildings that are all over this country..or at least some of them, firstly it would create jobs to out of work construction workers..
then they could be rented out to people who need them ie homeless people or overcrowded homes..
at least they would get some of the money back in rents..
fair covers a broad range of topics.. crime.. dole cuts.. education cuts.. cuts to health care the list is ENDAless

And what're SF's proposals? Spend the Pension Reserve Fund 20 times over as they were suggesting in the last election, while simultaneously reversing every wage cut in the PS and increasing JSA?

Ghandee

barney 20v wrote: »

Incorrect , you asked for examples of sniping ...I asked for examples of policies to create employment like our neighbours .... Try to keep up!

I'm keeping up just fine thank you.

What I asked, was for an example.

An example (forget the snipes) of the 'drastic measures in the north'?

Please give me an example.

vagabond2013

oh im sorry for rattling your cage.. did nama not already make a huge profit by selling some of these properties off.. and isnt that profit belong to us tax payers who bailed out the banks and builders of this country on more than one occasion...surely that money could be used to finish of the other ghost towns and estates left idle.. not exactly rocket science now is it..
come on then lets here your big ideas and proposals?? huh oh yeah you havn't got any have you... ???

melekalikimaka

vagabond2013 wrote: »

oh im sorry for rattling your cage.. did nama not already make a huge profit by selling some of these properties off.. and isnt that profit belong to us tax payers who bailed out the banks and builders of this country on more than one occasion...surely that money could be used to finish of the other ghost towns and estates left idle.. not exactly rocket science now is it..
come on then lets here your big ideas and proposals?? huh oh yeah you havn't got any have you... ???

i dont think you have any fact or theory to back your statements, dragging this debate out is ruining and credibility you had in your original statement

vagabond2013

not really im just answering the dribble that followed it

enda1

vagabond2013 wrote: »

oh im sorry for rattling your cage.. did nama not already make a huge profit by selling some of these properties off.. and isnt that profit belong to us tax payers who bailed out the banks and builders of this country on more than one occasion...surely that money could be used to finish of the other ghost towns and estates left idle.. not exactly rocket science now is it..
come on then lets here your big ideas and proposals?? huh oh yeah you havn't got any have you... ???

NAMA is an asset management agency. It's job is to sell the assets on its books and then wind down. It is not a property development company. If it were to make economic sense for there to be money spent on ghost estates, then a developer would buy the estates from NAMA, depend that money on them and then sell the properties.

barney 20v

vagabond2013 wrote: »

oh im sorry for rattling your cage.. did nama not already make a huge profit by selling some of these properties off.. and isnt that profit belong to us tax payers who bailed out the banks and builders of this country on more than one occasion...surely that money could be used to finish of the other ghost towns and estates left idle.. not exactly rocket science now is it..
come on then lets here your big ideas and proposals?? huh oh yeah you havn't got any have you... ???

What you proposed is not logical.....simple as. No cage rattled here, you propose that nama has made sufficient profits to date to finish the other ghost estates ?

vagabond2013

no what i actually said is the profits the have made could be put towards finishing some of the estates obviously not all of them..

barney 20v

vagabond2013 wrote: »

no what i actually said is the profits the have made could be put towards finishing some of the estates obviously not all of them..

Look at your previous post .... You did not say "some"
I quote...."surely that money could be used to finish of the other ghost towns and estates left idle.."

vagabond2013

oh please are you really going there?? have you nothing better to do?
well excuse me but thats what i meant

barney 20v

vagabond2013 wrote: »

oh please are you really going there?? have you nothing better to do?
well excuse me but thats what i meant

Sinn fein suits you....say one thing, mean another...
Back on topic.... Sf will no doubt gain in popularity over the next decade and I believe they might have a chance of getting a junior role in government. I hope they don't , but if they do it will finally cement their place in politics as opposition for oppositions sake.
I actually think we need a new political party as ALL in the dail are the same at this moment.

srsly78

Pros:
Great bunch of lads.

Cons:
Marxists.

Thanks, but no thanks.

Stheno

If they got rid of the likes of Ellis, McGuinness and everyone else associated with terrorism, and formulated some economic policies that actually made sense, then yes.

Otherwise. No.

Ghandee

barney 20v wrote: »

What you proposed is not logical.....simple as. No cage rattled here, you propose that nama has made sufficient profits to date to finish the other ghost estates ?

You're not going to give those examples are you?

Stheno

Ghandee wrote: »

You're not going to give those examples are you?

Some examples

FLYING high in the opinion polls, Sinn Fein speaks from both sides of its mouth when it talks about spending cuts in the South and government budgets in the North.

And the coalition parties of Fine Gael and the Labour Party have now joined the SDLP and UUP in the North to cast Sinn Fein as hypocrites.

Fianna Fail, its opposition rivals in the Dail, have lashed Sinn Fein's "spend, spend, spend" message in Dublin while signing off on welfare cuts in Belfast.

In the Northern Ireland Executive, Sinn Fein ministers have implemented swingeing spending cuts -- while objecting to budget cuts from the opposition benches in the Republic.

Sinn Fein has avoided the responsibilities of economic ministries in the Northern Ireland Executive, opting instead for the less controversial departments of education, agriculture and culture and the arts.

But while it continually calls for more funds for jobs in the Republic, the administration in Belfast underspent their budget in Invest NI -- the North's equivalent of the IDA -- by almost €50m.

Critics dismiss Sinn Fein's claim that the British government imposes the cuts in various sectors, including welfare, and point out that the party makes a legislative choice by voting for cuts in the North.

"The assembly has parity with Westminster, unlike the taxation regime, so welfare cuts are a legislative choice of the assembly," said a leading academic in Belfast.

"And Sinn Fein has made no substantive effort to change this parity principle despite their stated position."

Observers also point out that despite taking millions in expenses, Sinn Fein has consistently refused to take its seats at Westminster to put their case against cuts.

Sinn Fein double-speak was highlighted on March 10, 2010, when Sinn Fein voted in the Northern Ireland Assembly to cut government spending by Stg£3bn (€5bn) over four years.

But in his reply to the Budget nine months later, Caoimhghin O Caolain, its then leader in the Dail, said: "For out part, we in Sinn Fein are quite clear: we have rejected the consensus on cuts."

In Dublin, Sinn Fein has called for a €100,000 cap on public servants in the Republic. Yet in Belfast, a recent recruiting advertisement seeking a CEO for the First Legislative Counsel in the Office of the First and Deputy First Minister, offers a salary of up to Stg£205,000 (€255,000).

Below are listed examples of Sinn Fein's forked-tongue approach to government spending and budget cuts, North and South:

EDUCATION

In the Republic, Sean Crowe, Sinn Fein's spokesman on education, warned about the closure of rural schools in February of this year.

Mr Crowe accused the Government of "targeting mainstream and particularly small rural schools to spread unjust cuts . . ."

But in the North, Sinn Fein's Education Minister John O'Dowd said a "sustainable schools policy could lead to the closure of 70 schools".

In November of last year, Mr O'Dowd said: "I have therefore decided to close the (two rural) schools in (Co Armagh) as I am confident that the children's needs can be best met at alternative schools in the area."

HOUSEHOLD CHARGES

In the Republic, Sinn Fein has repeatedly attacked the introduction of a €100 household charge.

But in the North, Sinn Fein in government implements household taxes more than ten times higher than the proposed household charge in the Republic.

A householder in Derry with a house worth the average price in the North pays an annual charge of Stg£1,259 (€1,428).

WATER CHARGES

In the Republic, Sinn Fein has campaigned against the introduction of water charges.

But Sinn Fein MLA Mitchell McLaughlin has defended water charges in the North, a separate charge on top of the household charge there, and attacked the SDLP for opposing them.

Sinn Fein's former regional development minister Conor Murphy declined to reverse the decision to meter water in the North when he was in office.

WELFARE CUTS

In the Republic, Sinn Fein has opposed all cuts in social welfare since the economic crisis began.

In the North, Sinn Fein in government has signed off on welfare cuts that could total Stg£600m (€747m).

One in 10 welfare recipients in the North -- significantly more than any other part of Britain -- are on disability allowance.

But Sinn Fein is prepared to impose a Stg£500-a-week (€622) cap on households receiving it.

REPOSSESSION OF HOMES

In the North, repossession of homes has doubled in the past two years -- more than 1,000 homeowners had to return their door keys, despite Sinn Fein sharing power in government.

Yet in the Dail, Sinn Fein constantly criticises the Government for house repossessions.

Slideshowbob

Slideshowbob wrote: »

If they can overcome their weaknesses, are they bound to become one of the two top parties in the next 10 years and protemtially lead a coalition government?

Oooh, that's a toughie. I mean, protemtially anything could happen, couldn't it? It's a bit of a hypochondrical question for me, so I'll just have to say maybe.

barney 20v

Ghandee wrote: »

You're not going to give those examples are you?

Correct.. Too busy taking in the glory of a fantastic Liverpool victory to give sf heads examples of their hipocrisy.. OK one example, Mary Lou calling the government a disgrace over cuts to social welfare while in joint power in the north which had much much lower rates of direct social welfare.. Football more important than showing you the errors of sein fein

pablomakaveli

I think Sinn Fein supporters have gotten a bit carried away since the last elections. Sinn Feins improved performance in the last elections had more to do with the backlash against Fianna Fail then it did with Sinn Fein themselves.

I think they'll find themselves in a poorer position after the next election and id actually wager Fianna Fail will get back into government before Sinn Fein do.

Godge

I think SF will peak at the next local elections. They are elections that don't matter (for the last time before local authorities get property tax rate powers) and people will vote in protest for one last time. Thereafter Sinn Fein's vote will decline for a number of reasons:

(1) For as long as there are campaigners who remember Gardas Fallon and McCabe, who wonder where Jean McConville is buried and who else in the Dail built bombs that killed innocent civilians, then there is a part of the electorate who will never vote for Sinn Fein or transfer to them. That group is large enough in its own right to prevent Sinn Fein ever getting more than 30% of the seats in the Dail in the short-to-medium term.

(2) If people are going to forgive and forget SF for killing and murdering thousands, can anyone explain to me why they wouldn't forgive and forget FF for ruining the country? If so, then shouldn't FF recover as well, it will get crowded out there.

(3) By the time of the next general election, the economy will be starting to turn and most people will be in a situation where their circumstances are getting better or looking good. When you are getting richer and your economic prospects are improving then taxing the rich doesn't seem like as good an idea as when you are poor. The constituency attracted by Sinn Fein's mad economic policies will actually be smaller by then.

(4) Even if I am wrong about the above 3, the closer SF get to power, the more examination their policies will get and the hypocritical differences between their actual actions in the North/Six Counties/province of the UK and the proposed actions down here/26 counties/Ireland will become clearer and clearer.

However, as I say, that will be after the local elections.

Ghandee

Stheno wrote: »

Some examples

Thanks for rushing to his aid.


Few discrepancies in that story though.

SF are a junior coalition partner for starters, and direct taxation comes from westminster (despite what that report says)

The independent has been one of the main stream media sources for constant criticism against the HHC, ofttimes giving a comprehensive list of services that the homeowner gets for the 'ten times the amount of the hhc'

Free health care
Prescriptions capped at €8
Free education, free transport to the school, meals provided, no book fees
Refuse collection
Emergency services
Much lower motor tax
No tolled roads

On top of parks, council services, etc etc

And the claim that homeowners have to pay water charges on top of their rates is a downright lie, not stretching the truth, a lie. I'm from county Derry, we don't have water charges (possibly businesses do, I'm not 100% on that one.

It pisses me off at times the amount of folk who claim to know what SF do/did/attempt too do up north, yet not fully understanding, or educating themselves about it.

To top it off, the same folk are very quick to tell SF supporters that the north is a 'different country' than Ireland, so why you think SF should have the same policies, in 'two different countries' with different economies (even different currencies) always baffles me

barney 20v

Ghandee wrote: »

Thanks for rushing to his aid.


Few discrepancies in that story though.

SF are a junior coalition partner for starters, and direct taxation comes from westminster (despite what that report says)

The independent has been one of the main stream media sources for constant criticism against the HHC, ofttimes giving a comprehensive list of services that the homeowner gets for the 'ten times the amount of the hhc'

Free health care
Prescriptions capped at €8
Free education, free transport to the school, meals provided, no book fees
Refuse collection
Emergency services
Much lower motor tax
No tolled roads

On top of parks, council services, etc etc

And the claim that homeowners have to pay water charges on top of their rates is a downright lie, not stretching the truth, a lie. I'm from county Derry, we don't have water charges (possibly businesses do, I'm not 100% on that one.

It pisses me off at times the amount of folk who claim to know what SF do/did/attempt too do up north, yet not fully understanding, or educating themselves about it.

To top it off, the same folk are very quick to tell SF supporters that the north is a 'different country' than Ireland, so why you think SF should have the same policies, in 'two different countries' with different economies (even different currencies) always baffles me

What is sf's ultimate goal?????? Remind me please .... And once again... Football vastly more important than sf junior cert economics

ManMade

SF: Sure be one by what debate cant be problem be solved by raiding the pension reserve. Defaulting on our debt but somehow getting finance from the market cheaper than the IMF. Complaining about how people with private health care are somehow piggybaking on the public system. Repeatedly stating the crazy notion that some people have more money than others:eek:!! Advocating a wealth tax while telling people not to pay the household tax. Even if FG were to do exactly what they wanted they'd still moan about how they'd do it different. Purely populist, once the economy recovers they'll lose support and welcome back FF:( with tax cuts and spending hikes:(. For the record I'd view myself as center right, not far right.

Stheno

pablomakaveli wrote: »

I think Sinn Fein supporters have gotten a bit carried away since the last elections. Sinn Feins improved performance in the last elections had more to do with the backlash against Fianna Fail then it did with Sinn Fein themselves.

I think they'll find themselves in a poorer position after the next election and id actually wager Fianna Fail will get back into government before Sinn Fein do.

I suspect the same.

garhjw

Their "economic policies" are embarrassing. Actually proposing some of their policies is an insult to the misguided people who voted them in. Once the country comes out of recession, they will become irrelevant again.

Stheno

garhjw wrote: »

Their "economic policies" are embarrassing. Actually proposing some of their policies is an insult to the misguided people who voted them in. Once the country comes out of recession, they will become irrelevant again.

Their economic policies appeal to the majority who vote for them as they appear anti wealth/tax the rich etc at a minor glance.

Dig deeper and they are ruinous

Ghandee

barney 20v wrote: »

What is sf's ultimate goal?????? Remind me please .... And once again... Football vastly more important than sf junior cert economics

You still haven't given me I've single example......

I suspect I'll be waiting a while.

Stheno

Ghandee wrote: »

Thanks for rushing to his aid.


Few discrepancies in that story though.

SF are a junior coalition partner for starters, and direct taxation comes from westminster (despite what that report says)

SF would have to deal with the IMF/ECB here which will not defer cuts for a year etc.

barney 20v

Ghandee wrote: »

You still haven't given me I've single example......

I suspect I'll be waiting a while.

Indeed... Waiting on highlights on motd ! Maybe occupy yourself by addressing the other posters points??
Local Co county councillors are bad enough .... We don't need former members of the "army council" to run our affairs .