Wicklow Way Ultra - 24/03/13

DogSlySmile

I know there's a general IMRA discussion thread set up but I thought a dedicated thread for one of the longest IMRA races would be a good idea.

Details from the IMRA site here
Garmin link from 2010 here

How are people preparing for this? I'm about 6 weeks into the P&D 55-70mpw program, and I'm going to add a few back-to-back long runs on the weekend. I'm also trying to get as many hills in as I can on my mid-week runs.

Any suggestions on footwear? I've head there are long stretches on road/fire road, would trail shoes be recommended?

I'm a first timer so any advice would be greatly appreciated:)

SureWhyNot!

The choice of footwear will be very dependent on the weather in the weeks leading up to the race, and the weather on the day. Only 15k could be considered off-road and just under half of that would be boardwalks.

Best advice would be to get out on the route as the race is 'unmarked' on the day. Unless you buddy up with someone of very similar abilities and training, then you'll most likely end up on your own for considerable chunks. Knowing where you are is a big bonus, and can prevent adding a few k.

Getting out on the route will also inform you about your own preference for shoes.

Crone to the turn-around and back is a great long run.

Also Crone to the top of Prince Williams Seat and back.

It is worth knowing the route from the start to Curtlestown as it has been known for runner not to make it as far as Curtlestown having made the wrong choice at the first fireroad junction!

Be warned that the garmin track you posted is incorrect. On the return leg the runner should have taken the fireroad to the south after the turnaround and followed his original route home. The route shown in the garmin track includes an unnecessary steep climb up by the house in Ballinastoe. It is almost exactly the same distance.

DogSlySmile

Thanks for the advice. Yep, planning on getting out on the course to recce a few of the sections over the coming weeks. Reading reviews of previous years I was under the impression that the course was fairly straightforward to follow, just follow the little yellow men! But I have a knack of taking wrong turns on fully marked courses so I will not be depending on the little yellow men alone for this!

SureWhyNot! wrote: »

Be warned that the garmin track you posted is incorrect.

Didnt know that, if anyone has a more accurate garmin trace please share.

SureWhyNot!

DogSlySmile wrote: »

I was under the impression that the course was fairly straightforward to follow, just follow the little yellow men!

In theory you just follow the little yellow men, but doing this while running in a race has proven more difficult than expected for many people down the years. I would include myself in this very well populated group. Some classic mistakes would be:

• Running straight through a junction because you didn't see the post in the scrub, and assumed it was 'unmarked'
  
• Running past a post. Then looking back to see a man indicating back in the direction you have come, then assuming the other side of the post also points straight on...
  
• Assuming the whole course is on the WWay... in fact the first few km, the whole section in Ballinstoe forest and the last few km are not on the WW. These sections are straight forward, but it can be fairly disconcerting on the day if you don't know the fire roads in Ballinastoe.

The WWay around the Lough Tay car park has been altered slightly in the last couple of years so it might vary slightly from a Garmin track if you're following one.

Knowing the route or having a good idea of the route can be very beneficial on the day as it allows you carry more speed rather than slowing down at every junction to look for a post or worse slowing down between junctions as you begin to second guess if you missed one!

Krusty_Clown

DogSlySmile wrote: »

Didnt know that, if anyone has a more accurate garmin trace please share.

Here's mine from 2011. Not sure if there were any changes for the 2012 race.

Dunebuggy

Route for 2012 was the same, there will be a slight Variation to the route for 2013 as there has been works on the route around Lough tay to Ballinastoe route. But we will be following the Wicklow way for the rest.

The places where people have went astray over the last years have been either between Curtlestown and Crone OR around Lough Tay. Other than that its straight forward.

Keep an eye on the IMRA site for further updates

b.harte

How would someone sign up for this?
If they were interested....

SureWhyNot!

b.harte wrote: »

How would someone sign up for this?

All depends on what the Race Director decides. Keep and eye on the IMRA forum, and keep in touch with updates on the WW Ultra and WW Trail. As they're held together information tends to get mixed between the events.

IMRA website - WW Ultra information
IMRA Forum
IMRA Beginners Info Page

In the past for the Ultra you just turn up on the morning a little before the appointed hour, hand over your entry fee (and IMRA membership fee if not already paid up). If someone has volunteered to take care of the bag drop then you can leave one at registration for half way. You walk to the front door of Johnnie Foxes and when the nice person says go, off you go from there.

RJC

I ran it last year and did the whole thing in regular road shoes. Slippery grass is your biggest concern as opposed to mud and that can be dealt with by zig-zagging on the down-hills and paying attention on the up-hills.

Getting lost? Unless you're out in front you'll be fine. I was all worried beforehand last year but you can see most of the course open out in front of you. Don't forget, the course is out and back so you'll know the trip home and at 16 miles each way the pack shouldn't get too strung out.

Entering? I just turned up on the morning and paid my money - all very low-key and enjoyable (but the course is very tough).

DogSlySmile

To the lads that have done this before - what sort of food did you leave at the drop-off point? Is it doable with gels/drinks alone or would something more wholesome (sambos, nutri-grains etc) be recommended? Just wondering what I should bring on my longer training runs

Enduro

DogSlySmile wrote: »

To the lads that have done this before - what sort of food did you leave at the drop-off point? Is it doable with gels/drinks alone or would something more wholesome (sambos, nutri-grains etc) be recommended? Just wondering what I should bring on my longer training runs

Food at drop-offs ... none whatsoever.

Doable with drinks only : absolutely, if you are properly trained for it.

What should you bring on your training runs: nothing. Training is about adaptation. Teach your body how to burn fat, not how to become dependant on being constantly fed.

nerraw1111

Interesting.

Is there any hard and fast rules on how you should do this? As in something like the 10% rule for increasing distance?

i.e. run 10km first thing in the morning/without fuel, a week/month later increase that to 15km and so on?

Enduro

If there are rules then I don't know them.

I've never brought any food with me on any training runs, so it has been part of my natural training progression over the years. I actually can't remember the last time I've even felt hungry during a training run (thirsty for sure, but not hungry). But if I did, I'd be happy that I was pushing my body enough that it was likely to be adapting.

By far the best information I've read about this kind of thing has been from Barry Murray's articles in fit magazine (not available online unfortunately), and from his blogs. They square up pretty much exactly with my own experiences and theories which I've come up with over years of pushing myself in ultrarunning. "leftism" who sometimes posts in the cycling forum is another professional with similar advice on the benifits of training on empty.

PaulieC

nerraw1111 wrote: »

Interesting.

Is there any hard and fast rules on how you should do this? As in something like the 10% rule for increasing distance?

i.e. run 10km first thing in the morning/without fuel, a week/month later increase that to 15km and so on?

10k is nothing really, unless you were starving yourself for days before you almost always have plenty in the tank for a 10k. I'd try a 10 or 15 mile run first off. It feels absolutely normal. You might feel a few hunger pangs, but they usually go as quickly as they come. You'd really be surprised at how far you can go on an empty stomach.

Anyway, the running-on-empty talk is taking away from the original question about where to have food during the race. Not having done the race before, I would assume that the turnaround point would be the place to have your snacks banked and then something lighter for closer to the end. White bread with peanut butter would do it for me. Or anything with peanut butter really

jeffontour

nerraw1111 wrote: »

Is there any hard and fast rules on how you should do this? As in something like the 10% rule for increasing distance?

As others have said, I don't think you can draw up a plan for this. It's about adaptation. I started running to work before breakfast and after a nights sleep mainly because I couldn't be ^rsed getting up early enough for breakfast.

For the likes of 10k at what you feel is a moderate intensity for you it should be easy to go straight into it. Once you increase the duration and intensity of your runs on empty you can expect to have a few bonks if you want to find your limits. I know I spent a while in the boot of my car after collapsing into it after a run too far on empty. But as Enduro says and knows better than most it's about adaptation.

Just ease into it at your own pace and if heading out into a more isolated area be sure to bring some food with you in case you do feel a bit woozy!

DogSlySmile

Enduro wrote: »

By far the best information I've read about this kind of thing has been from Barry Murray's articles in fit magazine (not available online unfortunately), and from his blogs.

For anyone who is interested - Barry Murray blog entry about eating the week before and during the Lakeland 100 here

Colostomy Bag

First timer hoping to do the WW Ultra in March - possibly (certainly) out of my depth. Looking for some training advice. 2 marathons under my belt from 2012, Mourne Way June 2012 (way out of my depth for that but one hell of a learning experience re terrain) and DCM Oct 2012 (beginner time 4h28). I Do almost all of my running in ticknock, only doing one 16k a week at the moment due to a minor twisted ankle, but swimming every other day in the meantime - got the headtorch last week for mid-week runs - still haven't plucked up the courage to venture out solo. (Anyone ever do any midweek runs from Taylor's around 7pm?) - So got to increase the mileage big-time between now and March I reckon?
Should I be going up to 40k or so once before the race (preferably on the WW). Historically I've only done 2 hill runs a week, on average one 16k and one 21k - this is clearly going to have to increase massively if I want to finish the WWU. 10 weeks to go?

Rebelkell

Theres also a 26k version that goes from Ballinastoe to Johnny foxes at the same time. A bus brings you from Johnny foxes to the starting line.

DogSlySmile

Colostomy Bag wrote: »

I Do almost all of my running in ticknock, only doing one 16k a week at the moment due to a minor twisted ankle, but swimming every other day in the meantime - got the headtorch last week for mid-week runs - still haven't plucked up the courage to venture out solo. (Anyone ever do any midweek runs from Taylor's around 7pm?)?

Keep an eye on this thread about group runs in the Dublin mountains. Stick a post in there I'm sure you'll get a few people interested in meeting up for a run. Also, IIRC there was a thread on the IMRA forum last year about regular meet-and-runs in ticknock, so you could try there too.

PaulieC

Rebelkell wrote: »

Theres also a 26k version that goes from Ballinastoe to Johnny foxes at the same time. A bus brings you from Johnny foxes to the starting line.

That's a new designation of race length - a half ultra. I reckon it can be any length from 25k to 42k

willynt

Hey,

Is that me, or the imra web site is down at the moment?

belcarra

willynt wrote: »

Hey,

Is that me, or the imra web site is down at the moment?

No, not you, it's down alright.

clarebear285

Hi,I need advice on whether I've lost my marbles or not even considering doing this ultra 2months beforehand...ran 4 regular marathons in last 2 years (slowly, around 4.23),have done a few WARs, some infrequent trail and hill running but nothing extreme. Am prepared to seriously train from now til then, and happy to be very slow,take an early start and have to walk chunks of it. Would love to hear from anyone whose done it to advice me on if I have a hope in hell of finishing! Thanks a mill.

RJC

I am a middle of the pack runner and know my limits (in terms of speed and what I'm willing to give to running - not enough - for what I get back - more than enough).

On the food debate: If you're a middle of the pack runner then there are sections of this race that are too steep to run so bring something to eat to replenish your stores. The biggest risk with experiencing a sugar low is that you'll stumble, not that you'll go too slow. Gels for 5 or 6 hours will do your stomach no good. I've mixed it up with things like rice crispie squares (very light, a mix of fat and sugar and easy to digest) and other foods you've tested in training. If you're competing for first or second place like Enduro then you can ignore this advice.

On the 'Can I do this sort of thing' question: I've trained and run 8 or 9 marathons (best 3:17, worst 3:59) and I've run 4 off-road ultras (32 miles, 40 miles x 2 & 53 miles) and the ultras are easier. Remember, it's not distance but rather pace that kills you. Knowing that you're going to be at it for between 5 and 12 hours (or longer) means that you don't have to get involved in that 'never stop for a walk' thing that goes on for marathons and you are generally running at a pace well below your aerobic limit (it feels easy for you, in other words). The reduced pace also means that you can fuel your muscles as when you're walking you can eat (the blood is flowing to your gut rather than your legs when walking so you can absorb more sugars).

Aside from the fuel/pace issue is the mental issue of 'running longer than a marathon'. This is something, for your first ultra, that you have to consider and get your head around. The Wicklow Way Ultra is better than most because you are basically doing a 16 mile out and back route so at mile 16 you have the mental map of what's in front of you (where the easy & difficult sections of the course are, when to push, when to walk, where the food drops are).

I'd say two things about this race:
The elevation gain makes it harder than most ultras.
If it's your first one and you're unsure about nutrition then put something in each drop bag. A bottle of flat tesco coke is cheap if you leave it behind but could be just the thing to re-start the engine if you're struggling.

Also, I thought the people who crewed for it last year were brilliant.

nerraw1111

I Run Far today has a very informative post on common mistakes in ultras.

http://www.irunfar.com/2013/02/your-ultra-training-bag-of-tricks-taking-control-of-your-race.html

RJC

nerraw1111 wrote: »

I Run Far today has a very informative post on common mistakes in ultras.

http://www.irunfar.com/2013/02/your-ultra-training-bag-of-tricks-taking-control-of-your-race.html

The coping mechanism section of that post is particularly good.

How do you eat an elephant?

One bit at a time.

The same is true for an ultra. You don't run mile 27 when you're at mile 18. You deal with what is in front of you and let the future look after itself. Live for the moment.

Aimman

RJC wrote: »

If you're competing for first or second place like Enduro then you can ignore this advice.

I don't think Enduro competes for 2nd place.

DogSlySmile

Only three weeks to this, how is the training going? My trail runners have finally given up the ghost so I'll be needing a new pair before the ultra. Was hoping to get a pair that can stand up to some road use as well as being good on the trail. I've heard good thing about the brooks cascadia 6. Though I think there is a newer version out now. Can anybody recommend the 6? Or are there any others that would be durable enough for trail and road use?

Enduro

The Columbia Ravenous is my "goto" shoe for mixed used running, and the likely shoe I'll be using for this.

Oisin11178

Unbelieveable conditions for this, in parts this was the hardest thing ive ever done. Excellent experience but not for the faint hearted

jeffontour

Not to be dramatic about it but I imagine a day in Nam was a little like today.

ultraman1

Oisin11178 wrote: »

Unbelieveable conditions for this, in parts this was the hardest thing ive ever done. Excellent experience but not for the faint hearted or pussies like anto

Dunebuggy

Toughest 50km I have done to date - the snow made what is already a tough race a relentless challange!! Well done to all who finished and thanks for the 47 early starts for mapping out the path !!

Slogger Jogger

Well done to everyone involved yesterday and hats off to the competitors for completing a serious challenge.

Heres a question that has probably come up over the years.. At what point does an event become too popular that it needs to be scaled back some? The numbers of runners for trail and ultra and the no. of early starts made it a big logistical challenge to organise. From parking through to volunteers manning checkpoints to result taking. All well and good if the weather is fine but with conditions such as they were yesterday its extremely trying I expect for Dermot & crew. This is two events that are crying out for online registration and chip timing.

RJC

The Highland Fling can cope with 650 runners on a one-day event (with staged starts) so I think there is plenty of scope for expansion. The critical factor on this course is the capacity of the boardwalk. Everything else can be adjusted but that is the only constraint. That constraint is caused by the trail and ultra runners meeting. If it was all ultra then the field is spread out a fair bit by then so it would be less of a problem.

Yesterday was hard. the first climb of Djouce, the shoulder and the boardwalk were a real test of character (character = am I nuts?)

Oisin11178

RJC wrote: »

The Highland Fling can cope with 650 runners on a one-day event (with staged starts) so I think there is plenty of scope for expansion. The critical factor on this course is the capacity of the boardwalk. Everything else can be adjusted but that is the only constraint. That constraint is caused by the trail and ultra runners meeting. If it was all ultra then the field is spread out a fair bit by then so it would be less of a problem.

Yesterday was hard. the first climb of Djouce, the shoulder and the boardwalk were a real test of character (character = am I nuts?)

I think its hard for anyone that wasnt there or hasnt ran up there in those conditions to comprehend how hard it was. One of my fingers is still partially numb. i wasnt expecting that to anywhere near as hard at that to be honest. My legs are in a shocking state, worse than any long race ive ever done.

ThisRegard

Fair play to all you ultra guys who done this, Djouce was bloody tough doing it once, never mind having to do it a second time. And I'd imagine it was only easier for us having you guys already doing a path finder job through the ice and snow for us. It must have been 'fun' for the first guy up there trying to find the boardwalk.

Slogger Jogger

Scope for expansion if the systems are in place to cope with it. I helped with the organisation for the trail and 200 runners is probably about the limit the race can cope with in its current form. Certainly its probalby the limit of my patience :-)

Both races rely hugely on volunteer effort which can be thin on the ground and the time effort from volunteers on a day like this can be considerable, esp when they are standing still for hours on end in the freezings of cold.

Highland fling has chip timing and is (I think) one direction, so doesn't have the turnaround clash of runners.

We see other events in the wicklow mountains being limited by a cap on numbers (e.g. the Art O'Neill through the National Park). IMRA races through Coillte forests need permits and if the numbers go too big you may find permission being difficult to get.

In its current form its running out of parking space at the start and the bulk of the ultra field takes an early start - is that to be encouraged? In regular races early starts are for the small minority.

Hence given all the above the race is finely balanced between too popular and being too big. I don't know what the answer is.

Kurt Godel

Slogger Jogger wrote: »

Scope for expansion if the systems are in place to cope with it. I helped with the organisation for the trail and 200 runners is probably about the limit the race can cope with in its current form. Certainly its probalby the limit of my patience :-)

Both races rely hugely on volunteer effort which can be thin on the ground and the time effort from volunteers on a day like this can be considerable, esp when they are standing still for hours on end in the freezings of cold.

Highland fling has chip timing and is (I think) one direction, so doesn't have the turnaround clash of runners.

We see other events in the wicklow mountains being limited by a cap on numbers (e.g. the Art O'Neill through the National Park). IMRA races through Coillte forests need permits and if the numbers go too big you may find permission being difficult to get.

In its current form its running out of parking space at the start and the bulk of the ultra field takes an early start - is that to be encouraged? In regular races early starts are for the small minority.

Hence given all the above the race is finely balanced between too popular and being too big. I don't know what the answer is.

Very good points Mick. Facilitating as many entrants as possible (early starts), and (IMO) giving out "everyone's a winner" short course times to DNF'ers*, isn't the way to go. It's a sh!t hard race, the message shouldn't go out that its for everyone. Volunteer-led races like IMRA's should be limited first to those willing to help their community.

If there's a petition for popular races to be capped in favour of those who do the donkey work and volunteer, can you add my name to the list guys?

*I realize the conditions were atrocious, but if you start a tough race and don't finish it, your DNF stands as a testament to the courage of those who did finish. (Personal opinion, of course the RD should have definitive say).

RJC

I think you're bang on the money in relation to the systems. Parking, marshalling, transport and everything else can be addressed. The biggest issue is whether the trail and ultra should be separated (different days) or whether a cap should be put on numbers until the systems are in place. The problem with a cap is that it's arbitrary and this can lead to a loss of the community spirit that these races rely on as the return runners miss their places. The consequence of this is that you get someone saying that they wanted a medal and a race pack for €15 instead of a beautiful hand thrown mug.

ultraman1

Kurt Godel wrote: »

Very good points Mick. Facilitating as many entrants as possible (early starts), and (IMO) giving out "everyone's a winner" short course times to DNF'ers*, isn't the way to go. It's a sh!t hard race, the message shouldn't go out that its for everyone. Volunteer-led races like IMRA's should be limited first to those willing to help their community.

If there's a petition for popular races to be capped in favour of those who do the donkey work and volunteer, can you add my name to the list guys?

*I realize the conditions were atrocious, but if you start a tough race and don't finish it, your DNF stands as a testament to the courage of those who did finish. (Personal opinion, of course the RD should have definitive say).

+1 on this. i dnf'd at half way and dont want a short course time outta respect to the guys that finished,,,i tink a lot of people underestimate this race(even without the little bit of snow),,maybe have a qualifier(of sorts) of having done a imra race in the preceeding few months,,,and may also help with on the day regs,that take up a bit of time...

nerraw1111

I thought the race was a great success, went very smoothly, besides some car parking issues.
The weather probably helped. I think quite a few stayed away.

On the early starts. I think it’s great that some runners are catered for in this way. It seems to work particularly well during the summer, allowing some runners to enjoy the hills without fear of running in the dark, also lessens the time volunteers such as summit marshals have to be out.

Dunebuggy

Would agree with Nerraw1111 it was a great event, a sucess so was suprised to see a bit of negativity here on boards, dont see how that is helping the community - This is my opinion having volunteeered to mark the couse friday, registered the early starts and set them on their way and then ran the Ultra.

- The early starts for the Ultra worked - it meant people made the cuttoffs apart from the drop outs and it meant we finished at 5:00pm. The back of the Trail finished after the Ultra. It also helped with Registration as we didnt have 128 turn up at 8:30am.

- Online Reg, Capping races - as emailed to Slogger previosuly we will have it in place for Summer League so we can mange a multitude of other issues that we have in been a small voluntery organisatrion.
- Agree its a tough race - there were a large number of newbies, who painfully completed the race. People dont have to do the Ultra, they can do the Trail.

Agree with RJC above. I think the Online registration will take from the flexability of people being allowed to withdraw on the day and now we are getting into refunds etc .... but it has advantages no cash, Annual members online etc ...IMRA members should have the ability to pay on the day.

The DNF at the half way - Under the circumstnaces - it was extreemly tough going out !! Normally I would agree people should be DNF'd, But I think Kudos here should be given. I think, like Ultraman1 you need to have ran it to appreciatte that.( I can understand why you are all good with the DNF. I would be the same - Fairplay!! Hard also to withdraw. Did you get a mug :-))

People who participate, in international adventure Racing get short coursed all the time, I also saw it at the Donadee 50km where there was a Marathon Fallout option. Similarly in the spirit of the event anD the day that was in it I would say that the Ultra runners going out had a tougher run going out than the Trailrunners - and as we have the splits available we can provide them with a Short Course.

ultraman1

Dunebuggy wrote: »

Did you get a mug :-))

im still usin my 2010 mug.......

Wally Runs

Well done all of you! I was out with the family on the top of the Powerscourt Waterfall (about I half way I believe) and I have to say with very few exceptions you all looked pretty fresh and you left me feeling very jealous! There seemed to be great chat in the mid sections! One for me next year as a result.

Slogger Jogger

Sorry, I didn't mean to be negative. I was merely trying to illustrate the fine balancing act of having a successful event and having an event that is too big for its own good and onerous for the volunteer team. If you look at results numbers for the trail and ultra over the years there is a rising curve of entrants. For the trail in recent years we've gone from having to have zero buses to 2, to 3 to 4 to...?

I don't think it should be encouraged that the majority entering a race should be given early starts. For other races early starts are for a small minority. Again the race organisers on the day have to put things in place to deal with that e.g. being there an hour earlier than they would normally have to be.

Don't get me wrong, I think its a great event. I prefer it in its old format, but thats a continuing discussion :rolleyes: Well done all again.

Oisin11178

That was my first ever imra race, I can understand what people are saying about early starts. I generally dislike them but in this race I think an exception should be allowed esp in weather as bad as that. As for blow ins like myself, just charge us a premium, sure that's what kinda happened as newbies had to pay the extra 10er for imra membership for the year. Excellent race, registration was quick and easy .

Aimman

Yeah, I'd agree with Frank, we arrived at 8:20 all geared for a 9:30 start but we heard that the conditions were not good, so we decided at the last minute to go with the 8:30 group just in case the weather conditions would have slowed us down.

I've signed up as an IMRA member for the year now anyway with the registration, so I'd like to get out and try a few more races.

Hmmmmmmm.

Was going to go with Kanadia but from posts here might just go with road runners.

Kinda concerned about the prospect of running through markers. Don't have any GPS and haven't been on the route before, but assumed when on the Wicklow Way the route would be obvious enough, or clearly marked at junction with those brown finger posts used here on the Kerry Way.

DogSlySmile

Deleted User wrote: »

Hmmmmmmm.

Was going to go with Kanadia but from posts here might just go with road runners.

Kinda concerned about the prospect of running through markers. Don't have any GPS and haven't been on the route before, but assumed when on the Wicklow Way the route would be obvious enough, or clearly marked at junction with those brown finger posts used here on the Kerry Way.

the route is mostly marked with the Wicklow Way 'walking man' and any major diversions will be marked with red tape or a volunteer will hopefully be on hand.

Theres no time left for a recce but I didnt do one last year (my first time on the route) and I had no problems with finding my way.

On the shoes, I havent been on the route lately so dont know what the conditions are like. But Kanadias are pretty decent on roads and very comfortable so I would probably go with them over road shoes.

DogSlySmile

DogSlySmile wrote: »

Theres no time left for a recce but I didnt do one last year (my first time on the route) and I had no problems with finding my way.

On the shoes, I havent been on the route lately so dont know what the conditions are like. But Kanadias are pretty decent on roads and very comfortable so I would probably go with them over road shoes.

Great, thanks for that.

Was even half thinking of maybe going with Kanadias and leaving a change of runners in a drop bag, just in case conditions are very good.

Find the whole thing a bit daunting, did a bit of training on the Kerry Way and was doing runs of 35km or so and getting in 800 metres. Think I'd be comfortable doing the Trail distance, but decided I'd push myself. Still no ideas of fuel or pace but guess nothing like going for something and just seeing how it works out. If anything the overall experience should give me a good fitness base for IMRA runs during the summer.