Benefits for those in retail

Helpneeded86

Hi can people give me a rough idea of benefits they receive working in shops.

Id be particularly interested in Petrol stations/spar/centras if there is anyone employed in some.

Main interests

Holiday time

Sick pay

Over time pay

Sunday pay

zega

Holiday time-For full time workers its legal 20 days a year

Sick pay-No show,no dough

Over time pay-Time and a half,each company is different though

Sunday pay-Not sure

Corruptedmorals

Spars and centras are franchises.

Where I have worked..2 different department stores.

Holidays- 4 weeks for all staff
Overtime- Time and a half, but its not really ever done
Sick pay- after 1 years service
Sundays- time and a half

Helpneeded86

Il copy and paste my post from Bargain Alerts. It may give a better idea of the issues im bringing forward.

Helpneeded86

Probably should be i work problems but again its not really a problem if its standard.

Now im not all in favour here they treat there staff like ****. I seen someone complain about staff earlier.

- no sick benefit/extreme lack of sick cover if you are sick

- christmas bonus €20 applegreen voucher

- staff had to work christmas day for double time

- no extra pay on sunday

- no overtime

- expected to work to 11pm and be in again at 7am. Im sure this could mean 6 hours sleep for some

- the gas thing is they actually test staff in customer relations on a regular basis

- on another more personal situation my girlfriend has performed very well in some of these tests. Yet she has 0 chance of any career progression for a long time in that job.

I just feel i should outline that for those that do feel aggrieved by the staff. Im pretty certain that 80% of the staff in the shop she works will do there best for the customers even considering having working conditions most of us wont have to experience.

I shall state i can understand the business motives behind the above as i have previously managed a min wage workforce. I also have a background in finance. I just feel very strongly about the issue. They cant expect to run a big brand and get away with a corner shop mentality.

**it should be noted in the last week some agreement has been reached re Sunday pay** ive yet to cofirm 100% but it appears to be time and 1/20th which is about €3 a day.**

subpar

Fully agree the conditions of employment are very poor and are only really suitable for someone looking for a part time job or for students looking to earn some money to support themselves whilst in college.

The lack of a sick pay scheme is a disgrace and needs to be rectified as a matter of basic rights.

It is impossible to support a family on retail sector rates of pay , it is no job for the middle aged person who would have all the outgoings of a person trying to have a life and run a home.

Where are the trade unions now ? too busy looking after the public sector elite.

Helpneeded86

Why should someone who works 30-40 hours a week not get a compensation for been in on a Sunday is what kills me.

Im just interested to hear from employees from similar disciplines. It truly does make me smile that they place such an emphasis on employee behaviour towards the customers yet none on motivating the worker.

It is a think line between offering to many benefits coming from a person who saw how it was taken advantage of in the celtic tiger period that i started in the workforce. I worked with a company based near Clonmel that actually booked sick days off pretty much.

It reminds me of the guy who rang the boss Friday evening to inform the boss hed be sick Monday morning.:)

davo10

subpar wrote: »

The lack of a sick pay scheme is a disgrace and needs to be rectified as a matter of basic rights.

It is impossible to support a family on retail sector rates of pay , it is no job for the middle aged person who would have all the outgoings of a person trying to have a life and run a home.
.

Employees out on sick leave are entitled to payment from social welfare after day three. The employer is not required to pay sick leave.

Employers are required to pay a rate above a certain legal level, the employee is entitled to accept/reject this rate. Minimum pay in Ireland is amongst the highest in Europe and is higher than the US. The employer is not responsible for supporting any family but their own.

Wicklowandy

Workers on rotating shifts are entitled to 11 hours between rostered shifts

Eg if you finish at 11pm you cant start before 10am the next day

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=79581766

Helpneeded86

davo10 wrote: »

Employees out on sick leave are entitled to payment from social welfare after day three. The employer is not required to pay sick leave.

Employers are required to pay a rate above a certain legal level, the employee is entitled to accept/reject this rate. Minimum pay in Ireland is amongst the highest in Europe and is higher than the US. The employer is not responsible for supporting any family but their own.

Is the second paragraph still about sick leave or have you moved on to another issue. Id appreciate if you could clarify this as the first line of the second paragraph makes no sense unless we know the context.

Wicklowandy wrote: »

Workers on rotating shifts are entitled to 11 hours between rostered shifts

Eg if you finish at 11pm you cant start before 10am the next day

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=79581766

I guess i probably should have left that complaint out really. I mean there is just 2 shifts so it means someone is stuck on 2 evening shifts if they dont work the 7am shift so i guess in a way been in the morning shift can be an advantage as opposed to been stuck on continuous night shifts.

I mean i can understand they dont pay sick pay when it is the norm among the industry. Surely a good company could offer 2-3 sick days per annum.

The Sunday pay is the big thing for me i am utterly convinced that this is where they are getting done big time.

I should state here im not having a go at the individual shop but the overall company. Did any of the management partake in basic HR training you would have to wonder.

davo10

Helpneeded86 wrote: »

Is the second paragraph still about sick leave or have you moved on to another issue. Id appreciate if you could clarify this as the first line of the second paragraph makes no sense unless we know the context.

The second paragraph relates to the second paragraph in quotation from subpar about pay rates.

Helpneeded86

davo10 wrote: »

The second paragraph relates to the second paragraph in quotation from subpar about pay rates.

Ya in fairness you wont hear me giving out about the wage it is what it is. But i do believe strongly they are getting a raw deal on Sunday pay.

I mean no one is suggesting they have to give any incentives to make the happier at work. But dont insult them with a token they gave to pretty much all there customers.

Would it really kill an employer to treat employees to a €30 meal once a year. It is probably going to be a €300 cost.

Give me one good reason why anyone should attain to go above and beyond in there job and be scrutinised by tests on there customer service level.

The killing thing is there willing to spend money on mystery shoppers.

glagirl

I have worked for several shops over the years and to be honest conditions and pay are depends on the shop owner. I have worked for Centra and Spar along with several petrol stations. I have found that basicly you work what every hours you are given even if you on late shift one night and may be expected to open again at 7am. I have never got overtime just regular pay and never finished ontime as we were required to cash till up at end of shift which could take 15 mins and if the till was short we were deducted the dif out of our wages the same as if a person drove of without paying at a petrol pump for petrol(which has never happened to me but to others that i worked with). The last shop i worked for i did everything from tills, stocking shelves, and I was over the pricing display(had to make sure all prices were displayed correctly) along with placing the orders and locking up. I also had to lots of office work like the daily accounts input in to the computer and banking the shop money yet when i got preg they did their best to get me to leave by cutting my hrs and changed my roto around to make it hard for me. Its crap work and i do hope i dont have to go back to it. I mean its thankless work and the money is rubbish. Its ok to say you have right and you prob have but if you dont like the condition then they will just tell you the you know where the door is and they is 20 more waiting for your job. Oh and not to mention the drunks that call in at 5 mins before closing time to buy a bottle of wine and abuse the staff, another perk of the job.

Helpneeded86

glagirl wrote: »

I have worked for several shops over the years and to be honest conditions and pay are depends on the shop owner. I have worked for Centra and Spar along with several petrol stations. I have found that basicly you work what every hours you are given even if you on late shift one night and may be expected to open again at 7am. I have never got overtime just regular pay and never finished ontime as we were required to cash till up at end of shift which could take 15 mins and if the till was short we were deducted the dif out of our wages the same as if a person drove of without paying at a petrol pump for petrol(which has never happened to me but to others that i worked with). The last shop i worked for i did everything from tills, stocking shelves, and I was over the pricing display(had to make sure all prices were displayed correctly) along with placing the orders and locking up. I also had to lots of office work like the daily accounts input in to the computer and banking the shop money yet when i got preg they did their best to get me to leave by cutting my hrs and changed my roto around to make it hard for me. Its crap work and i do hope i dont have to go back to it. I mean its thankless work and the money is rubbish. Its ok to say you have right and you prob have but if you dont like the condition then they will just tell you the you know where the door is and they is 20 more waiting for your job. Oh and not to mention the drunks that call in at 5 mins before closing time to buy a bottle of wine and abuse the staff, another perk of the job.

Thanks for the input and your situation seems a lot worse than the company that she works for. Maybe I expect to much as someone who never really had to work in that industry.

P.S without sounding bitchy throwing in a paragraph or two in a post like that really helps the eyes digest it easier. Thanks again for the input.

Mrs OBumble

Helpneeded86 wrote: »

Why should someone who works 30-40 hours a week not get a compensation for been in on a Sunday is what kills me.

Are the Sunday hours in excess of the regular 30-40 hours, or just part of it?

Personally it kills me that someone who works on Thursday (for example) should get less than someone who works on Sunday, just 'cos it's only Thursday.

What's the difference?

Helpneeded86

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Are the Sunday hours in excess of the regular 30-40 hours, or just part of it?

Personally it kills me that someone who works on Thursday (for example) should get less than someone who works on Sunday, just 'cos it's only Thursday.

What's the difference?

Part of it but seriously come on. Do you ever socialise? 80% of your friends are off!! What days do you have free so Thursday and Friday? Try get someone to do something on a weekday or what if you have kids in school.

The above statement can only come from someone who never has had to work on a Sunday.

Mrs OBumble

Helpneeded86 wrote: »

Part of it but seriously come on. Do you ever socialise? 80% of your friends are off!! What days do you have free so Thursday and Friday? Try get someone to do something on a weekday or what if you have kids in school.

The above statement can only come from someone who never has had to work on a Sunday.

,

I've done shift work for about 5 years in the past - and like everyone else in the place, I tried to get Sunday shifts because the were better paid and easier (less customers, and very few of them were drunk - oh, and the most-competent staff were the ones who tended to get rewarded with the Sunday shifts.)

I socialize plenty - but rarely ever on Sunday, that's when most people I know are going to church, doing household things and shopping and getting ready for the week ahead.

Agree it can be hard on family life if one parent is regularly working both Saturday and Sunday - but that wasn't the OP's complaint. And it has other rewards, in terms of being home when the kids come from school two days/week, and being available for school trips etc.

And it's actually easier to organise a social life around regular weekend work than it is around rotating shifts, in which the days you're off vary each week. You simply need to make friends with people who are also off work on the days you are off: there are plenty of shift workers around, you just have to make the effort to find them.

Helpneeded86

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

,

I've done shift work for about 5 years in the past - and like everyone else in the place, I tried to get Sunday shifts because the were better paid and easier (less customers, and very few of them were drunk - oh, and the most-competent staff were the ones who tended to get rewarded with the Sunday shifts.)

I socialize plenty - but rarely ever on Sunday, that's when most people I know are going to church, doing household things and shopping and getting ready for the week ahead.

Agree it can be hard on family life if one parent is regularly working both Saturday and Sunday - but that wasn't the OP's complaint. And it has other rewards, in terms of being home when the kids come from school two days/week, and being available for school trips etc.

And it's actually easier to organise a social life around regular weekend work than it is around rotating shifts, in which the days you're off vary each week. You simply need to make friends with people who are also off work on the days you are off: there are plenty of shift workers around, you just have to make the effort to find them.

Ah here this is almost hilarious. You say you sought out work on Sunday because it was better paid.

Lets be realistic im not sure how many people develop new friendships after they leave college. I personally dont have one close friend that i socialise with that i didnt go to school with.

davo10

Helpneeded86 wrote: »

Ah here this is almost hilarious. You say you sought out work on Sunday because it was better paid.

Lets be realistic im not sure how many people develop new friendships after they leave college. I personally dont have one close friend that i socialise with that i didnt go to school with.

I can't see why it would be important to your employer that you make friends on your days off. If working Sundays is part if your job then you have a choice, work or don't, plenty of others who will.

Helpneeded86

davo10 wrote: »

I can't see why it would be important to your employer that you make friends on your days off. If working Sundays is part if your job then you have a choice, work or don't, plenty of others who will.

The fact they are not been payed Sunday pay as seems to be required and standard in most jobs is the issue. Working the Sunday is not the issue as such.

mikemac1

In my experience:

Holiday time - 20 days per year for full time. 8% holiday pay if you are part time

Sick pay - talk to the Social Welfare over this, I never got this from the employer

Over time pay - never got it. I will say I got pay in 15 minute slots. If I'm staying late with the till and lockup I get paid for that.

Sunday pay - I was on 9 euro ph standard and I got 12 euro ph Sundays. I have heard of JLC's but I don't know anything about them or if they apply

Perks - Deli food, could make some nice sandwiches for myself and grab some lucozade.

Rest Periods - Bwahahahahaha :pac: If you finish late and you are rostered early you do it. If you refuse then your hours are cut and the new hire will get them :rolleyes:


That's it

Helpneeded86

mikemac1 wrote: »

In my experience:

Holiday time - 20 days per year for full time. 8% holiday pay if you are part time

Sick pay - talk to the Social Welfare over this, I never got this from the employer

Over time pay - never got it

Sunday pay - I was on 9 euro ph standard and I got 12 euro ph Sundays. I have heard of JLC's but I don't know anything about them or if they apply

Perks - Deli food, could make some nice sandwiches for myself and grab some lucozade.

Rest Periods - Bwahahahahaha :pac: If you finish late and you are rostered early you do it. If you refuse they your hours are cut and the new hire will get them :rolleyes:


That's it

To be honest id agree with most of the above really. The Sunday thing irks me a lot.

I also think a gesture at Christmas really does help morale.

Procrastastudy

Typically rest periods are ignored out of ignorance more than anything else.

Sick play - employer dependent. Most places I worked paid sick pay.

Most people working in retail don't mind working week-ends just part of the job really. However most retailer I know do get pissed off with the erosions of Easter and Xmas.

Actually I quite liked working Saturdays - meant I got a day off in the week. Sundays would be worked on rotation - some staff sough them though - premium time is undefined most pay time + 1/4 to time +1/2.

Expect to work beyond restored hours. My biggest issue was donkey-bonnet customers tbh. What is it that people think they've a God given right to come in and be a***holes.

wmpdd3

The new contracts are time and a third for a Sunday and a Bank holiday.
Yes, I expect to work a Sunday and Bank holidays but it gets to the point where when there's a 21st / wedding etc, either you dont go or you go and drive home and work the next day. After a while family stop inviting you, you'll probably be working anyway.

One place I worked, I would work 4 days 8-6 then 11-6 on a Sunday, that was my weeks work, I'd be paid for am full week but nothing more. Getting '3' hours off on a Sunday as it was a short day was you extra pay.

Really the worst part is Christmas, usually the last day off is around the 14th of Dec.
So straight through till 7 pm Chrsitmas Eve, back in St. Stephan's day morning.

Stheno

wmpdd3 wrote: »

The new contracts are time and a third for a Sunday and a Bank holiday.
Yes, I expect to work a Sunday and Bank holidays but it gets to the point where when there's a 21st / wedding etc, either you dont go or you go and drive home and work the next day. After a while family stop inviting you, you'll probably be working anyway.

One place I worked, I would work 4 days 8-6 then 11-6 on a Sunday, that was my weeks work, I'd be paid for am full week but nothing more. Getting '3' hours off on a Sunday as it was a short day was you extra pay.

Really the worst part is Christmas, usually the last day off is around the 14th of Dec.
So straight through till 7 pm Chrsitmas Eve, back in St. Stephan's day morning.

Do people who take jobs in stores with those hours not realise that?

I used work in pc support, 24/7/365, we got a premium for working nights but nothing above that, same pay xmas day as a normal Monday

barney 20v

Helpneeded86 wrote: »

Hi can people give me a rough idea of benefits they receive working in shops.

Id be particularly interested in Petrol stations/spar/centras if there is anyone employed in some.

Main interests

Holiday time

Sick pay

Over time pay

Sunday pay

Why are you interested op ? Journalist perhaps???

RainyDay

subpar wrote: »

Where are the trade unions now ? too busy looking after the public sector elite.

Or too busy running the union for retail staff (Mandate) and creatively campaigning to support good employers in that sector; http://fairshop.ie/MANDATE-LAUNCHES-FAIR-SHOP-CAMPAIGN-TO-ENCOURAGE-CONSUMERS-TO-SHOP-WHERE-WORKERS-ARE-RESPECTED/

davo10

wmpdd3 wrote: »

The new contracts are time and a third for a Sunday and a Bank holiday.
Yes, I expect to work a Sunday and Bank holidays but it gets to the point where when there's a 21st / wedding etc, either you dont go or you go and drive home and work the next day. After a while family stop inviting you, you'll probably be working anyway.

One place I worked, I would work 4 days 8-6 then 11-6 on a Sunday, that was my weeks work, I'd be paid for am full week but nothing more. Getting '3' hours off on a Sunday as it was a short day was you extra pay.

Really the worst part is Christmas, usually the last day off is around the 14th of Dec.
So straight through till 7 pm Chrsitmas Eve, back in St. Stephan's day morning.

What has weddings/21st got to do with your employer?. In the retail sector December 14 to the period when post Christmas sales end is the busiest time of the year. If you do not want to work on the busiest days of each week and at the busiest time of the year, leave, let someone who does want to work have your job.

An employer is required to follow the law in terms of rates of pay, leave, safety etc, they are not required to schedule their rotas around your social life.

Lets get a dose of reality here, there are now thousands of people including third level graduates who would gladly take retail sector jobs even if it meant working Sundays and all of December.

wmpdd3

In response to the OP request, I have given a snap shot of the current conditions in retail. After 15 years experience in retail, I feel I can comment on how the conditions affect your work life balance.

Procrastastudy

davo10 wrote: »

What has weddings/21st got to do with your employer?. In the retail sector December 14 to the period when post Christmas sales end is the busiest time of the year. If you do not want to work on the busiest days of each week and at the busiest time of the year, leave, let someone who does want to work have your job.

It is - however rather than look at alternatives employers break various employment rules and make people work through. I dont have an issue with that but every year they seem to want more. We used to work through until early on Xmas eve and then start again on the 27th. Now it's late on the 24th and early on the 26th. Before 2020 shops will be open on Xmas day. It's won't make anyone any-more money.

It's just daft to take the attitude that is someone will do the job get out. If that's the case we should all be working 18 hour days for a euro an hour.

davo10 wrote: »

An employer is required to follow the law in terms of rates of pay, leave, safety etc, they are not required to schedule their rotas around your social life.

No they are not. That's what holidays are for. However senior retail management are obsessed with keeping more junior managers in when they are not. It should work that a store manager can take the occasional Saturday or Sunday off, come back in, review figures and deal with any drop off by training the Deputy managers. What happens is that Area manager tells the store manager it's too busy to take off and then disappears for the weekend.

davo10 wrote: »

Lets get a dose of reality here, there are now thousands of people including third level graduates who would gladly take retail sector jobs even if it meant working Sundays and all of December.

Between wmpdd3 and myself we have over thirty years retail experience. Third level don't stick around retail any longer than they have too, which adds to the issue. Its one thing to work hard its another thing entirely to be exploited.

apache

Did you not look at your contract or ask about it?
You should have known the story. No point in moaning now. Tough.

davo10

Procrastastudy wrote: »

It is - however rather than look at alternatives employers break various employment rules and make people work through. I dont have an issue with that but every year they seem to want more. We used to work through until early on Xmas eve and then start again on the 27th. Now it's late on the 24th and early on the 26th. Before 2020 shops will be open on Xmas day. It's won't make anyone any-more money.

It's just daft to take the attitude that is someone will do the job get out. If that's the case we should all be working 18 hour days for a euro an hour.



No they are not. That's what holidays are for. However senior retail management are obsessed with keeping more junior managers in when they are not. It should work that a store manager can take the occasional Saturday or Sunday off, come back in, review figures and deal with any drop off by training the Deputy managers. What happens is that Area manager tells the store manager it's too busy to take off and then disappears for the weekend.



Between wmpdd3 and myself we have over thirty years retail experience. Third level don't stick around retail any longer than they have too, which adds to the issue. Its one thing to work hard its another thing entirely to be exploited.

Procrastastudy, go back and read my post again. I said as long as the employer stays within the boundaries of employment law they do not have to take your social life in to consideration. Holiday leave is in agreement with your employer. If you work in retail, it may be difficult to prove wrongdoing on the employers part if they do not give holiday leave at the busiest time of the year.

Make no mistake, there are huge numbers who would take these jobs, I bet there are people reading this thread who would take this job and be willing to work Sundays. There was a time during the boom when employers in hospitality and retail found it hard to get Irish people to work and had to employ foreigners, those days are long gone, dole ques are now too long and times to tough for many, to put up with someone whining that their social life is suffering because they have to do the job on the days that they know they are required too.

apache

Have to agree there with Davo. Its a bit rich (ha pun) to be moaning. Read and ask about your contract before you start wanting to change the goalposts.

Helpneeded86

barney 20v wrote: »

Why are you interested op ? Journalist perhaps???

Thought i had made it clear but maybe it was in the other thread. My Girlfriend works for Applegreen.

Il state my only real issue is the Sunday Pay. Maybe the insulting Christmas bonus aswell but that is not really something they have to do anyway so cant make a huge issue.

The rest irk me a little is all im pretty sure the likes of Dunnes/tesco offer better terms perks wise but i cant confirm that maybe someone can.

I just love the way they expect a huge effort upselling and been subject to undercover shoppers testing them. Does a company not believe in other HR techniques to motivate the worker.

Corruptedmorals

Helpneeded86 wrote: »

Thought i had made it clear but maybe it was in the other thread. My Girlfriend works for Applegreen.

Il state my only real issue is the Sunday Pay. Maybe the insulting Christmas bonus aswell but that is not really something they have to do anyway so cant make a huge issue.

The rest irk me a little is all im pretty sure the likes of Dunnes/tesco offer better terms perks wise but i cant confirm that maybe someone can.

I just love the way they expect a huge effort upselling and been subject to undercover shoppers testing them. Does a company not believe in other HR techniques to motivate the worker.

My post refers to Dunnes, and another company- same rights/perks except Dunnes bonus is a few hundred in vouchers, and the other company is cash. Tesco is also referred to here. All 3 companies are heavily unionised, applegreen is not.

Helpneeded86

What if a set of workers in one shop demanded a union? This is hypotheticaly speaking.

Mrs OBumble

Helpneeded86 wrote: »

What if a set of workers in one shop demanded a union? This is hypotheticaly speaking.

They choose a union, join it, and start paying membership fees. Unions are something that workers, not management, organise.

Part of making a wise choice about which union to join involves talking to someone from that union about how they interact with management in various companies, and following their advice about how to introduce the management to the union.



And re your earlier points:

Helpneeded86 wrote: »

Ah here this is almost hilarious. You say you sought out work on Sunday because it was better paid.

Yes, because I was not stupid.

But I thought it was grossly unfair that I got paid more, for easier work, than the people working on other days. Friday, in particular, was a killer - very busy, long day, lots of drunks at night. The poor suckers who got Friday shifts worked a lot harder than the ones working on Sunday, for 2/3 of the money.

Helpneeded86 wrote: »

Lets be realistic im not sure how many people develop new friendships after they leave college. I personally dont have one close friend that i socialise with that i didnt go to school with.

Normal adults continue to develop new friendships for most of their lives. (How to you think people who emigrate cope?) Further discussion of this point probably belongs in PI, not here.

RainyDay

Helpneeded86 wrote: »

What if a set of workers in one shop demanded a union? This is hypotheticaly speaking.

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

They choose a union, join it, and start paying membership fees. Unions are something that workers, not management, organise.

Part of making a wise choice about which union to join involves talking to someone from that union about how they interact with management in various companies, and following their advice about how to introduce the management to the union.

Just to add to Mrs O'B's useful advice, staff can join a union at any time. Mandate are the main union for retail staff. The employer is not obliged to recognise the union. The programme for Govt includes a provision for mandatory union recognition, though this hasn't yet been implemented.

wmpdd3

you only have to search work problems in this forum for plenty examples of contracts changing and it accept the new contract of leave. Even a union cant do much for a small workforce in that situation.
In practical term, i had 4 new recruits leave in 2009 as they could not live with the 5 day over 7 rota. Of those, 1 was an ex factory worker who did shift work and the other 3 were from office and construction jobs.
Since 2009, pay bill to sales rates are the same, productivity is 7 percent higher, pay rates are the same but more man hours are delivered.

Procrastastudy

davo10 wrote: »

Procrastastudy, go back and read my post again. I said as long as the employer stays within the boundaries of employment law they do not have to take your social life in to consideration. Holiday leave is in agreement with your employer. If you work in retail, it may be difficult to prove wrongdoing on the employers part if they do not give holiday leave at the busiest time of the year.

Make no mistake, there are huge numbers who would take these jobs, I bet there are people reading this thread who would take this job and be willing to work Sundays. There was a time during the boom when employers in hospitality and retail found it hard to get Irish people to work and had to employ foreigners, those days are long gone, dole ques are now too long and times to tough for many, to put up with someone whining that their social life is suffering because they have to do the job on the days that they know they are required too.

I'm sorry but this 'thousands who would do the job' argument just doesn't cut it. There is a systemic issue in retail due to there generally being people out there that would take the job under the pretty much any conditions. Now that it's coming around to third level people wanting the jobs no doubt something will actually no get done about it. Well until the economy picks back up and they all go into other jobs.

Holidays are there and to be fair there are people employed to do Sundays. That said if you are not specifically employed to do just a Sunday then it's only fair to spread out the work. It's not 'moaning' it's trying to maintain a decent work-life balance. I simply don't understand some of the attitudes in this country. We seem to swing from one extreme to the other. On the one hand you couldn't get an Irish person to take the job - now everyone should be working 1000 hours a day. Would we not be better off adopting a sustainable, balanced approach and sticking to it?

Bottom line is that yes in retail you have to sacrifice the Mon-Fri 9-5. What shouldn't happen is exploitation. If you keep appealing to the lowest common denominator re working conditions everyone suffers - that includes erosion of employment law. You only need look at what's happening in the UK.

Procrastastudy

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

They choose a union, join it, and start paying membership fees. Unions are something that workers, not management, organise.

Part of making a wise choice about which union to join involves talking to someone from that union about how they interact with management in various companies, and following their advice about how to introduce the management to the union.

As pro-union as I am, especially in retail, where it is sorely needed; it's a one-way ticket to being managed-out in many employers.

Shelflife

Exploitation?? Sunday pay? and insulting bonus' ?

seriously are you all living in the same world as the rest of us? As a retailer who employs 13 people I can honestly say that we have never exploited any member of staff.

There seems to be an enormous sense of entitlement amoungst people, why should there be extra pay on a sunday at all? I cant charge any extra for my products just because its a sunday so why should anyone get paid any more?

Why should I pay someone for not coming into work (sick pay) what makes you think that I can afford that and do you honestly believe that it wont be abused?

Insulting bonus? Id love a bonus, I actually got a tip this xmas for the first time in years, it was €20 I was delighted. why do you think that someone who pays you 52 weeks of the year, and gives you 4 weeks paid holidays should also give you a bonus as well.?

For the record all our full time staff are on well above the min wage.

part time are all on the min wage.

full time staff who are with us for over 2 years get sick pay which covers 3 weeks sick pay.

Overtime is at time and a half.

sunday pay has a 5% premium.

BH pay is double time or a day in lieu.

For those that think that independent shop owners are minted think again, we (my wife and I) work 6-7 day weeks we take out roughly €6 per hour as thats all the business can afford.

We have had to return from holidays because staff called in sick.

We dont get sick days, sick pay or any dole if we lose our jobs, we get no maternity pay and have no entitlement to holidays.

Im not trying to be the poor mouth here, but its frustrating when you are working crazy hours to keep your business afloat (literally) and then you see people bitching about the bonus that they actually got.

tatli_lokma

There are always two sides to everything and I can totally see where you are coming from Shelflife.

I also disagree with this Sunday premium in sectors such as retail. It harks back to the days when Sunday was a big family day and we all went to mass and then the granny's for our dinner. In order to encourage people to give up their Sunday a premium was introduced as it was considered unsociable hours. But in todays modern life it really isn't - Sunday is just a day like any other, shops are open, people rarely go to mass anymore (in fact when I worked in Easons when I was a teenager and they brought in Sunday working the unions insisted that it be from 1 to 5 so that people would have time to get to mass before work! lol). It is also open to abuse as I remember some staff who had the manager in their pocket always got Sundays which meant that they got paid the same for 4 hours work that others worked a full Saturday (a much busier day) for. Getting Sundays and Thursday nights were the holy grail as you knew you would get the same money for less hours but you only got those hours if you were managers pet.

If I get a job that states I will be required to be flexible with my hours and work Sundays and accept that, then I don't see how I can complain afterwards. Yeah its sucky not being able to go on the razz on a Saturday night cos you're up for work the next day, but its not like you didn't know that when applying for the job.

I work in an office - I don't get a bonus of any kind. I have set salary, which in one way is great, but it also means that any extra hours don't get paid at a unless it is over an extra 5 hours, and it has to be over 10 hours to get paid at a premium. I am lucky as I have a very accommodating boss who allows time in lieu, but I have worked places that don't so you end up giving an extra 150 hours a year on average for no extra money. I would actually love to be able to work the occasional saturday and then have a weekday off to go and do stuff without having to take an annual leave day. I do get paid a lot more than I would in a retail job, but equally I have a lot more responsibility. There is no chance in me just 'putting in the hours'. I used to be able to go to work in retail with a hangover and still concentrate - not a hope of doing my current job with a hangover.

So every job, whether it be in retail, office, construction etc has its benefits and pitfalls. As long as you know what you are signing up for at the outset, you can't go whinging at the basic pitfalls later. Procrastastudy is correct when he says that there is lots of areas of exploitation, but I don't think that getting a premium for Sundays and a crap bonus can be considered exploitative.

Helpneeded86

Shelflife wrote: »

Exploitation?? Sunday pay? and insulting bonus' ?

seriously are you all living in the same world as the rest of us? As a retailer who employs 13 people I can honestly say that we have never exploited any member of staff.

There seems to be an enormous sense of entitlement amoungst people, why should there be extra pay on a sunday at all? I cant charge any extra for my products just because its a sunday so why should anyone get paid any more?

Why should I pay someone for not coming into work (sick pay) what makes you think that I can afford that and do you honestly believe that it wont be abused?

Insulting bonus? Id love a bonus, I actually got a tip this xmas for the first time in years, it was €20 I was delighted. why do you think that someone who pays you 52 weeks of the year, and gives you 4 weeks paid holidays should also give you a bonus as well.?

For the record all our full time staff are on well above the min wage.

part time are all on the min wage.

full time staff who are with us for over 2 years get sick pay which covers 3 weeks sick pay.

Overtime is at time and a half.

sunday pay has a 5% premium.

BH pay is double time or a day in lieu.

For those that think that independent shop owners are minted think again, we (my wife and I) work 6-7 day weeks we take out roughly €6 per hour as thats all the business can afford.

We have had to return from holidays because staff called in sick.

We dont get sick days, sick pay or any dole if we lose our jobs, we get no maternity pay and have no entitlement to holidays.

Im not trying to be the poor mouth here, but its frustrating when you are working crazy hours to keep your business afloat (literally) and then you see people bitching about the bonus that they actually got.

See here is the issue you seem like a model employer. Applegreen turned 2.2 million profit last year and dont treat there staff to the same degree as you do.

I am actually pretty ok with a small one/two shop employer like you cutting costs in all corners. There is a difference.

Rojiblancos

Holiday time: 20 days

Sick pay: none

Over time pay: additional opening hrs - normal pay

Sunday pay: time & a third

RainyDay

Procrastastudy wrote: »

As pro-union as I am, especially in retail, where it is sorely needed; it's a one-way ticket to being managed-out in many employers.

If enough people join, this is not an option for the employer.

Procrastastudy

RainyDay wrote: »

If enough people join, this is not an option for the employer.

Agreed but critical mass is always difficult.

Gillo

Procrastastudy wrote: »

Agreed but critical mass is always difficult.

My own employer doesn't negotiate with unions although I known a lot of colleagues who are in unions and have brought in union rep in with them when they are dealing with HR (we had an area manager for a while who caused a lot of problems and a lot of meetings were had). That said I work for the retail arm of a much larger company.