Roundabout at Liffey valley, what lane?

DylanII

Does anyone know what lane you should be in at the roundabout beside B&Q.

When your coming from Liffey valley and going towards ballyfermot/palmerstown which lane should you be in?

I always use the inside lane but about 70% of people use the outside lane when going to ballyfermot/palmerstown and the inside lane when going to clondalkin. They are both the same exit off the roundabout. But further up the road they are different turns?

miller50841

DylanII wrote: »

Does anyone know what lane you should be in at the roundabout beside B&Q.

When your coming from Liffey valley and going towards ballyfermot/palmerstown which lane should you be in?

I always use the inside lane but about 70% of people use the outside lane when going to ballyfermot/palmerstown and the inside lane when going to clondalkin. They are both the same exit off the roundabout. But further up the road they are different turns?

Any link or pic would help.

If you are turning 90degree right then outside lane 1st or 2nd exit left lane unless arrows say otherwise

Kenny Logins

The one with great big arrows painted on the road?

colm_mcm

The signage doesn't specify anything different, so normal roundabout rules apply. That means you're in the left lane if going to b&q and right lane if going towards cold cut road.

Then after roundabout, Middle and right lane going towards harelawn, and left lane if going towards coverhill

Guy:Incognito

The arrows on the road say only the right lane is for going right (towards the gym). In reality a large percentage of the people are idiots and go right from the left lane.

DylanII

Yes the one with the huge arrows painted.

The left points straight for B&Q and the other right (towards the gym). But I've had people tell me that the right arrow is for turning right at the gym towards clondalkin.

I'm on my phone so I don't have any google image.

miller50841

well that's grand when the car in the right goes straight then hits you then they are wrong

Kenny Logins

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Liffey+Valley+Shopping+Centre,+Ireland&hl=en&ll=53.3492,-6.389231&spn=0.002661,0.006984&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=56.768363,114.433594&oq=liffey+valley&t=h&hq=Liffey+Valley+Shopping+Centre,+Ireland&z=18

Matt Simis

Kenny Logins wrote: »

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Liffey+Valley+Shopping+Centre,+Ireland&hl=en&ll=53.3492,-6.389231&spn=0.002661,0.006984&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=56.768363,114.433594&oq=liffey+valley&t=h&hq=Liffey+Valley+Shopping+Centre,+Ireland&z=18

Surely this is the roundabout in question?
https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Liffey+Valley+Shopping+Centre,+Ireland&hl=en&ll=53.35371,-6.403667&spn=0.00129,0.004128&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=56.768363,114.433594&oq=liffey+valley&t=h&hq=Liffey+Valley+Shopping+Centre,+Ireland&z=19

Ive had many arguments with my brother about it. Im not sure who is correct, but I argue that going with the majority is safer than trying to make a point.

Leaving Liffey Valley, heading towards N4, Leixlip/West (away from Dublin) direction, I take the inside (closest to roundabout centre lane) lane around the roundabout then exit then immediately merge with the right side of double split lane which itself merges with the N4.

He argues its signposted "right" in the middle lane on the roundabout, leading to merging on that double laned joiner road on the left of the two lanes.


It seems to me the junction is setup to support both approaches, the only time you get a problem is if someone in the outside lane bypasses their first left and decides to slice 2 of the 3 exit lanes.

MagicSean

Matt Simis wrote: »

Surely this is the roundabout in question?
https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Liffey+Valley+Shopping+Centre,+Ireland&hl=en&ll=53.35371,-6.403667&spn=0.00129,0.004128&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=56.768363,114.433594&oq=liffey+valley&t=h&hq=Liffey+Valley+Shopping+Centre,+Ireland&z=19

Ive had many arguments with my brother about it. Im not sure who is correct, but I argue that going with the majority is safer than trying to make a point.

Leaving Liffey Valley, heading towards N4, Leixlip/West (away from Dublin) direction, I take the inside (closest to roundabout centre lane) lane around the roundabout then exit then immediately merge with the right side of double split lane which itself merges with the N4.

He argues its signposted "right" in the middle lane on the roundabout, leading to merging on that double laned joiner road on the left of the two lanes.


It seems to me the junction is setup to support both approaches, the only time you get a problem is if someone in the outside lane bypasses their first left and decides to slice 2 of the 3 exit lanes.

I'm fairly sure he's talking about the other roundabout and he is approaching it from the top left and exiting at the bottom. The important thing to note is that the bottom exit has three lanes exiting it. The left hand lane at the exit is a filter lane for a left turn ahead, the other two are for a right turn.

seamus

It looks messy cos there was supposed to be a fourth entrance to the roundabout. Follow the arrows, thems the rules - left hand lane is for B&Q, right hand lane for all other exits.

OldmanMondeo

It used to be marked, left hand for B&Q, Right hand for Coldcut road.

L1011

Matt Simis wrote: »

Surely this is the roundabout in question?
https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Liffey+Valley+Shopping+Centre,+Ireland&hl=en&ll=53.35371,-6.403667&spn=0.00129,0.004128&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=56.768363,114.433594&oq=liffey+valley&t=h&hq=Liffey+Valley+Shopping+Centre,+Ireland&z=19

Ive had many arguments with my brother about it. Im not sure who is correct, but I argue that going with the majority is safer than trying to make a point.

Leaving Liffey Valley, heading towards N4, Leixlip/West (away from Dublin) direction, I take the inside (closest to roundabout centre lane) lane around the roundabout then exit then immediately merge with the right side of double split lane which itself merges with the N4.

He argues its signposted "right" in the middle lane on the roundabout, leading to merging on that double laned joiner road on the left of the two lanes.


It seems to me the junction is setup to support both approaches, the only time you get a problem is if someone in the outside lane bypasses their first left and decides to slice 2 of the 3 exit lanes.

That's not the one he's talking about; but it is a bloody mess (far worse than the one at B&Q) and I find that if you go the recommended way (by the signs) you have an extremely high chance of someone trying to drive in to you from your right...

They actually need to take a lane off it and/or make the slip the N4 take an entire lane (lane drop).

OldmanMondeo

MYOB wrote: »

That's not the one he's talking about; but it is a bloody mess (far worse than the one at B&Q) and I find that if you go the recommended way (by the signs) you have an extremely high chance of someone trying to drive in to you from your right...

They actually need to take a lane off it and/or make the slip the N4 take an entire lane (lane drop).

That roundabout is clearly marked, the problem is people who do not keep in their lane and try and to ram you out of it when you are in the correct lane.

Matt Simis

OldmanMondeo wrote: »

That roundabout is clearly marked, the problem is people who do not keep in their lane and try and to ram you out of it when you are in the correct lane.

I wouldnt consider anything about it clear. The traffic is usually too high to actually see the road markings, they changed the markings at least twice (the left lane was left lane from the Fonthill side was changed to be left only) but the real issue is it has 3 exits on the side Im referring to, however the left most exit splits into two lanes about a car length from the roundabout, to allow existing the roundabout in the "middle lane" to actually turn left. Which acts like a semi-marked 4th exit on one side.

This is what I do as I can simply drive faster to get into lane without fuss. When Ive try the left lane, I find people drift too soon from the middle etc.

OldmanMondeo

Matt Simis wrote: »

I wouldnt consider anything about it clear. The traffic is usually too high to actually see the road markings, they changed the markings at least twice (the left lane was left lane from the Fonthill side was changed to be left only) but the real issue is it has 3 exits on the side Im referring to, however the left most exit splits into two lanes about a car length from the roundabout, to allow existing the roundabout in the "middle lane" to actually turn left. Which acts like a semi-marked 4th exit on one side.

This is what I do as I can simply drive faster to get into lane without fuss. When Ive try the left lane, I find people drift too soon from the middle etc.

Drove that the other day, in busy traffic and found the fresh markings very clear. I have also driven it before the lanes were repainted, infact the road was resurfaced, and it was clear then.

The problem is people race each other around it to get to their exit ASAP. Biggest issue is coming from the centre and heading N4 out bound, they get into the right hand lane before the roundabout and stay at the centre lane past Fonthill and Lucan exits, but for the N4 exit, they head straight for the inside lane to get onto the N4, the amount of time I have had near misses there is unreal.

Matt Simis

OldmanMondeo wrote: »

Drove that the other day, in busy traffic and found the fresh markings very clear. I have also driven it before the lanes were repainted, infact the road was resurfaced, and it was clear then.

The problem is people race each other around it to get to their exit ASAP. Biggest issue is coming from the centre and heading N4 out bound, they get into the right hand lane before the roundabout and stay at the centre lane past Fonthill and Lucan exits, but for the N4 exit, they head straight for the inside lane to get onto the N4, the amount of time I have had near misses there is unreal.

Ok so whats the correct and whats the safest exit then, in my scenario? Cos Im genuinely of two minds.

Leaving LV, existing roundabout to N4, heading westbound.

SgtBob

If we are talking about roundabouts at Liffey Valley. The one with the Cinema car park exit bugs me.

If you see in the image, coming out from where the red arrow is. (The road with the blue line is an exit onto the roundabout only)

There are three lanes exiting onto the roundabout, the left most lane (Yellow) is for traffic taking the first exit. The other two are as normal.

As you can see the portion of the roundabout between these exits and the first exit is three lanes wide, but has no road markings. So what happens if you are in the middle lane (Purple), is that the car beside you in the yellow exit will without fail cut straight into the purple lane (As I have crudely drawn). I can't count the amount of times I, and others, have nearly had accidents due to drivers in the yellow line cutting straight across the lane.

L1011

OldmanMondeo wrote: »

That roundabout is clearly marked, the problem is people who do not keep in their lane and try and to ram you out of it when you are in the correct lane.

The markings are for a much larger roundabout. Its too small for the number of lanes on it.

BostonB

MYOB wrote: »

The markings are for a much larger roundabout. Its too small for the number of lanes on it.

+1 that the biggest problem with a lot of these roundabouts. Too many lanes. Too small roundabout.

vandriver

Surely,if 90% of drivers use the roundabout in a certain way,then only bloody-mindedness would keep you taking the correct lane.I used to take the left lane coming in to the B&Q roundabout,going to Palmerstown,and without fail when you exit you are left stranded in the lanes going to Clondalkin.
I can't beat them, so I've joined them!

OldmanMondeo

Matt Simis wrote: »

Ok so whats the correct and whats the safest exit then, in my scenario? Cos Im genuinely of two minds.

Leaving LV, existing roundabout to N4, heading westbound.

Quick hungover answer, fast and safe!!!

Iwannahurl

DylanII wrote: »

Does anyone know what lane you should be in at the roundabout beside B&Q.

When your coming from Liffey valley and going towards ballyfermot/palmerstown which lane should you be in?

I always use the inside lane but about 70% of people use the outside lane when going to ballyfermot/palmerstown and the inside lane when going to clondalkin. They are both the same exit off the roundabout. But further up the road they are different turns?

Is this the spot?

DylanII

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Is this the spot?

Yea thats the spot.

Iwannahurl

Then it's clearly a right turn, no?

I see a similar situation on a daily basis in my locality, where despite a totally obvious and signposted right turn, the vast majority of motorists enter the roundabout in the right-hand lane then switch mid-junction (between 1st and 2nd exits) to the left-hand lane.

The reason they're doing it, apart from following everybody else in a sheep-like fashion, is that the road they're heading for splits into two lanes a few hundred metres further on near a signalised junction.

Meanwhile muppets (already on the roundabout) coming from their right, as they wait to enter, happily do things like blocking the yellow box.

The joys of Irish driving on Irish roundabouts... :rolleyes:

BTW, here's a webpage coincidentally mirroring your 70% reference: http://blog.axa.ie/2011/06/roundabout/


.

Merch

I wasn't going to reply but,
The roundabout the OP is talking about at B&Q

Most times, very little traffic is going down the B&Q exit compared to the clondalkin and palmerstown/ballyfermot turn (P/B turn), as the turn to ballyfermot can get backed up, it makes sense for the nearside (left) lane entering the roundabout to be used for going down to the P/B turn off soley (instead of blocking up by queing in the righthand lane as this would only hold up traffic to clondalkin direction at no benefit to those wanting to turn to palmerstown/Ballyfermot) in particular when its busy and then use the right lane for clondalkin traffic.

Suprisingly enough that roundabout mostly seems to operate smoothly, as that is what most people do, except when people block it up as the P/B exit backs up and cars coming from the other direction also block the roundabout trying to get around.
If people didn't block it, it would work all the time.

In my opinion, both lanes should be right turning and have a painted sign on the road
The left lane should be left and right (obviously)

As for it having an exit missing, the main traffic flow would still be going right at that roundabout, coming from liffey valley, the priority (usage) isn't to B&Q and the other side of the car parks of liffey valley shopping centre.


Regarding the other roundabout, for the most part I think it's ok, except coming from Fonthill, the offside lane according to the road markings can only turn right towards liffey valley, it should have a straight arrow on there also as traffic from the near and offside has two lanes to the next roundabout beside the bridge.

At peak times, none of the road markings can be seen, so unless you are familiar, not that Im one for anymore signs, there are enough of those up, some blocking view of traffic at roundabouts.

The worst problem I can see at roundabouts is an upturn in the amount of people willing to not yield, not even look.

Iwannahurl

There's a large sign to the left on approach to the roundabout (see StreetView link above) which clearly indicates the right turn, ie past 12 o'clock.

Re: "If people didn't block it, it would work all the time." Roundabouts inevitably give rise to circular arguments, it seems!

If roundabouts worked all the time, then people wouldn't be blocking them.

There are inherent problems with roundabouts at peak traffic times. That is why many roundabouts end up being signalised, or totally converted to signalised junctions as is happening on the N6 Bothar na dTreabh route in Galway.

Merch

Iwannahurl wrote: »

There's a large sign to the left on approach to the roundabout (see StreetView link above) which clearly indicates the right turn, ie past 12 o'clock.

Re: "If people didn't block it, it would work all the time." Roundabouts inevitably give rise to circular arguments, it seems!

If roundabouts worked all the time, then people wouldn't be blocking them.

There are inherent problems with roundabouts at peak traffic times. That is why many roundabouts end up being signalised, or totally converted to signalised junctions as is happening on the N6 Bothar na dTreabh route in Galway.

I think they need to paint sectors of yellow boxes to encourage not blocking on roundabouts (where the lanes meet the roundabout, in between that leave spaces for people to move into), if every car moved up one space at a time it would leave the road unblocked, maybe. I know it wouldn't make a difference to a lot of people who will just ignore it, but some will follow it.

Lights on a roundabout that size will be an inconvenience most of the time and will inhibit the freeflow of traffic more of the time than the peak time traffic currently does, Im sure you're not suggesting lights there, just using an example of where it's necessary on larger roundabouts.

Iwannahurl

I'd love to believe that roundabouts are better than other junction types, I really would.

Unfortunately I just don't think that Irish roads engineers working under Irish legislation in the context of Irish transport and spatial planning policies are likely ever to come up with a roundabout design that is safe and effective for all road users.

panama

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Unfortunately I just don't think that Irish roads engineers working under Irish legislation in the context of Irish transport and spatial planning policies are likely ever to come up with a roundabout design that is safe and effective for all road users.

Probably not.

I saw a minor road rage incident heading into Swords from Airside, at the roundabout where an idiot in a black focus in the right hand lane (2 lanes entering the roundabout) went round and tried to cut off the fella in front of me who had used the roundabout correctly and indicated left for Swords, the second exit on the roundabout, cue plenty of horn beeping and light flashing and that was from the prat in the wrong! The right lane should be used for taking the 3rd or subsequent exit (in this case) and most people do to go up the carriageway a bit and enter the Pavilions carpark. But of course in his eyes he was in the right.

How do you educate people like that who are probably doing the same illegal or incorrect manouevres everytime?

The recent driving adverts are helful imho and well produced but I'm not sure anyone pays any attention to them.

Merch

Iwannahurl wrote: »

I'd love to believe that roundabouts are better than other junction types, I really would.

Unfortunately I just don't think that Irish roads engineers working under Irish legislation in the context of Irish transport and spatial planning policies are likely ever to come up with a roundabout design that is safe and effective for all road users.

When there isn't enforcement, people know there is a slim chance they will be caught or if caught much done about it.
Maybe we should have something like a 4 way stop, well that wouldn't work either, apart from the confusion it would cause trying to teach people how it should work, people will still ignore it.

panama wrote: »

I saw a minor road rage incident heading into Swords from Airside, at the roundabout where an idiot in a black focus in the right hand lane (2 lanes entering the roundabout) went round and tried to cut off the fella in front of me who had used the roundabout correctly and indicated left for Swords, the second exit on the roundabout, cue plenty of horn beeping and light flashing and that was from the prat in the wrong! The right lane should be used for taking the 3rd or subsequent exit (in this case) and most people do to go up the carriageway a bit and enter the Pavilions carpark. But of course in his eyes he was in the right.

Whether he was doing something wrong is determined by the road signs and markings, I am not familiar with the junction.
Assume you are saying he tried to go straight when he isn't allowed? but saying he went round, makes it sound like he was trying to go all the way around the roundabout, which would seem ok?
Do you have a google map of the roundabout? do you mean this roundabout? what direction was he travelling, it all depends.

http://maps.google.ie/maps?q=swords+road,+&hl=en&ll=53.449829,-6.22251&spn=0.006594,0.021136&sll=53.3834,-8.21775&sspn=6.765747,21.643066&t=h&hnear=Swords+Rd,+County+Dublin&z=16

alias no.9

Matt Simis wrote: »

Ok so whats the correct and whats the safest exit then, in my scenario? Cos Im genuinely of two minds.

Leaving LV, existing roundabout to N4, heading westbound.

Its signposted, middle lane approaching the roundabout for N4 west and right lane approaching the roundabout for M50, city center etc...

To safely execute your maneuver, for the N4 westbound, enter in the middle, drift to the left after the second exit and take the left lane of the exit running into the left lane of the filter to the N4 westbound. Heading towards the m50/city, right lane into the roundabout, cling to it all the way round to exit into the right lane going down the hill. Avoid the middle lane approaching the exit of the roundabout and down to the filter for the N4 west, this is where the idiots who don't know where they're going are usually found along with the usual lane hopping opportunists but stick to the above and they'll always be leaving you your path rather than moving into it.

panama

Merch wrote: »

Do you have a google map of the roundabout? do you mean this roundabout? what direction was he travelling, it all depends.

http://maps.google.ie/maps?q=swords+road,+&hl=en&ll=53.449829,-6.22251&spn=0.006594,0.021136&sll=53.3834,-8.21775&sspn=6.765747,21.643066&t=h&hnear=Swords+Rd,+County+Dublin&z=16

Aye that's the one, there's two lanes entering the roundabout. He was in the rhs lane entering. I didn't see if he indicated as I was 2 cars back but I was in a queue of 3 cars in the left hand lane who when clear correctly proceeded through and indicated left before taking the second exit for Swords town. The fella in the outside lane unexpectedly turned left and proceeded to cut in ahead of the car in front of me. And he then proceeded to blow his horn and flash his lights as if he had been wronged. There is only one lane, albeit a wide one off the roundabout into swords until it narrows a little further down but there are no road markings to suggest cars entering the roundabout in the outside lane can turn in there legally so imho he was completely in the wrong and acted like an ignorant pr*ck when the driver ahead of me would not let him in front of him. Any normal person would go into the right hand lane to take the 3rd exit for the Pavilions entrance or to continue on up the carriageway to the next roundabout. I've used this roundabout quite a lot and have never been cut up or seen anyone else doing what he did.

Merch

panama wrote: »

Aye that's the one, there's two lanes entering the roundabout. He was in the rhs lane entering. I didn't see if he indicated as I was 2 cars back but I was in a queue of 3 cars in the left hand lane who when clear correctly proceeded through and indicated left before taking the second exit for Swords town. The fella in the outside lane unexpectedly turned left and proceeded to cut in ahead of the car in front of me. And he then proceeded to blow his horn and flash his lights as if he had been wronged. There is only one lane, albeit a wide one off the roundabout into swords until it narrows a little further down but there are no road markings to suggest cars entering the roundabout in the outside lane can turn in there legally so imho he was completely in the wrong and acted like an ignorant pr*ck when the driver ahead of me would not let him in front of him. Any normal person would go into the right hand lane to take the 3rd exit for the Pavilions entrance or to continue on up the carriageway to the next roundabout. I've used this roundabout quite a lot and have never been cut up or seen anyone else doing what he did.

While I'm not passing that way frequently, I have driven that road/roundabout from all directions. Mostly North-South and sometimes from Airside direction to take the 3rd exit, the road leading it from Airside can be a pain as you get to a point and it always seems to be backed up and slow moving.
If he was ahead of the other driver and was effectively proceeding the same direction as you, it isn't unreasonable and is more courteous and I think less hassle to just allow someone to merge, its going to cause less hassle than forging on into a potential accident to prove a point and not allowing one person to merge even he was in the wrong or in error.
Also there are no lane markings I can see of on the road coming from airside direction saying cars in that lane must only turn right! so if that was a first time coming down there that could have led to an error on their part
Sounds like the driver in front of you was the ignorant one to me or at least equal, you said this car (focus) was ahead of him and he refused to allow him to merge, even if he was wrong, that guy would still be a douche bag for refusing to allow one person to merge and is more likely to cause a problem to me. The guy probably should have gone around, but this sounds like a case, where the markings are missing and someone else is acting like they enforce the law.

Reminds me of a rule of the road elsewhere, which is roughly
Even if you are in the right and someone else is in the wrong, avoid collisions (even if that means giving way when you shouldn't have to)

antodeco

People here seem to be talking about two different roundabouts. The one the OP is talking about is the one that has the retail park on your right, with liffey valley behind you (heading away from it). B&Q is ahead of you. On the road, there are two markings. Left lane has a straight arrow, right lane has a right arrow. On top of this, as you are turning basically 270 degrees, the left lane should not be used. Standard roundabout rules apply, as well as common sense. I have many close calls on that roundabout. It doesnt help that most people dont indicate on the roundabout, so as you turn, you automatically start "cutting" the lane to get into the left turning lane in the road ahead, and nearly end up in the drivers door of another car.

panama

Merch wrote: »

Sounds like the driver in front of you was the ignorant one to me or at least equal,QUOTE]

I fail to see how when he was using the roundabout correctly as per the rules of the road, the other fella wasn't.

Merch

panama wrote: »

Merch wrote: »

Sounds like the driver in front of you was the ignorant one to me or at least equal,QUOTE]

I fail to see how when he was using the roundabout correctly as per the rules of the road, the other fella wasn't.

Well, the other chap was hardly gaining much advantage by going into the right lane, there are no markings or signs leading up to the roundabout according to the last version of google maps (I was by that way in the last month but was turning right, didn't notice any extra markings on the road, but the road was full back to the previous bend).
So its possible to see how he made an error and I'd be suprised if he was going that way all the time (but its possible), so I'd allow for a possible error.
It would be a different story if he had jumped a whole long que to nip in at the last minute as then he would be gaining some advantage, but where the road splits into two lanes looks very short, so no advantage gained by him.
I'd even suggest in this case the road markings/signage (which I detest overuse of) in this case is not adequete enough. There are plenty of examples of poor signage elsewhere (either overuse, incorrect, inadequete, contradictory or none at all)

People make errors all the time (everyone) and when the guy is already going for the turn, what benefit is it to anyone to insist on leaving no space for them to get in when such action would leave everyone around them even more liable to be in an accident??
I'm not saying he was right or wrong, I'd personally wait till I saw the junction and how wide that turn off is.
If the fella that would not allow him to merge ended up in a tip with the the car wanting to merge, he may have ended up sharing the blame and cost, is it worth that?? or worse maybe rear ending car ahead or knocking a pedestrian as he isn't paying full attention, what advantage did he gain?? one position ahead??
not worth it IMO, in that regard he is being at least a bit ignorant.
Anyway, the OP is about another roundabout and about 3-4 have been mentioned already.

barrystea81

I've wondered the same thing and I think the regular roundabout rules apply - you should take the inside (closest to the roundabout lane) if you're turning right towards Palmerstown or Clondalkin and take the left hand lane if you're heading to B&Q. If you're going to Palmerstown or Clondalkin, I think you're supposed to come off in the centre lane and then indicate to say where you're going.