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Fine Gael want to "regulate public comments" on social media

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13

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    #62
    squod
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,704 ✭✭✭squod


    Reckon this is going to be another Sherlock job. Pushing the problem ''underground'' and forcing people to use proxies more.

    It's not China, it's not 1940s Germany.

    Criminalising the poor while rewarding tax dodging among the rich is a form of bullying that this government is guilty of.


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    #63
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,568 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    FG and Labour are only continuing more so now what Shatter has set out to do already in the new year.
    To silence the people of Ireland and the media.


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    #64
    spikethedog
    Closed Accounts Posts: 209 ✭✭spikethedog


    Biggins wrote: »
    FG and Labour are only continuing more so now what Shatter has set out to do already in the new year.
    To silence the people of Ireland and the media.

    They can try........


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    #65
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,568 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    spikethedog wrote: »
    They can try........

    They certainly are already...


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    #66
    leggo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,061 ✭✭✭leggo


    GRMA wrote: »
    Practice what you preach.

    What is your name? Give us your details.

    Look about one centimetre below this post and you can find ample info about me; including links to my professional Facebook and Twitter. But nice try, I was wondering who'd be thick enough to say that without realising you can get as much info about me as you like (including my yearly Christmas traditions!) by just looking closer.

    And you are? Since we're demanding each others' details and everything.


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    #67
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,814 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Biggins wrote: »
    FG and Labour are only continuing more so now what Shatter has set out to do already in the new year.
    To silence the people of Ireland and the media.

    I'll believe you when this is actually true

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #68
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,568 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    mango salsa wrote: »
    I'll believe you when this is actually true

    http://bigginsblog.wordpress.com/2012/11/04/shatter-determined-to-rein-in-media-with-privacy-laws/

    For those also able to have a Times account, you can read about the state attempts to silence the Irish media direct from their own paper: http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/ireland/article1159401.ece


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    #69
    bleg
    Registered Users Posts: 5,848 ✭✭✭bleg


    Tom Hayes sent out an email to constituents in advance of the Children's referendum and never BCCed anybody.

    I could see every single person he emailed and they had my email address as well. I reported him to the Data Protection Commissioner.

    He should cop on and legislate for things he knows about. He clearly has no clue about ICT.

    Politely **** off.


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    #70
    donegal_road
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,281 ✭✭✭donegal_road


    flynnlives wrote: »
    except your wrong, there is no anonymity on the internet, there never was.

    Everything can be traced back to your ip address.

    here is one of many IP hiding software.. no troll should be without a copy


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    #71
    Icyseanfitz
    Registered Users Posts: 7,409 ✭✭✭Icyseanfitz


    yeah because we all take what people say on the web super serious, as someone else said if you dont like what the internet is saying turn off the fcuking computer


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    #72
    flutered
    Registered Users Posts: 6,668 ✭✭✭flutered


    donegal_road wrote: »
    here is one of many IP hiding software.. no troll should be without a copy

    tor browser also works grand, it also is a quite handy bit of kit.


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    #73
    stick-dan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,456 ✭✭✭stick-dan


    It's really sickening though that it is being brought up because a prominent member of society was affected. Now respects to the man and my condolences to his family, but it's not right that there are thousands of innocent kids, teenagers and Adults cyber-bullied daily and no-one ever brought this up before now. If i'm wrong with my assumption then I'll accept that, but it's not right only acting on the problem of cyber bullying now when it has existed for years!


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    #74
    Dostoevsky
    Registered Users Posts: 1,023 ✭✭✭Dostoevsky


    boneyarsebogman wrote: »
    Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.

    .... That's why these ask.fm sites are so popular - they crave affirmation. Build people up, so that even if someone is bullied, it won't affect them.

    In fairness when it comes to bullying you could add any site that thrives on ego "thanks" systems - yes, like Boards.ie.


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    #75
    Slideshowbob
    Registered Users Posts: 2,460 ✭✭✭Slideshowbob


    “People have to be made accountable for what they are saying,” say Tom Hayes. Yet we have collective cabinet responsibility ?!?


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    #76
    DonkeyStyle \o/
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,145 ✭✭✭DonkeyStyle \o/


    Well unfortunately for them, they don't have jurisdiction over every site on the internet.
    Is this waste of tax-payer's money going out to tender?


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    #77
    Slideshowbob
    Registered Users Posts: 2,460 ✭✭✭Slideshowbob


    DonkeyStyle \o/ wrote: »
    Well unfortunately for them, they don't have jurisdiction over every site on the internet.
    Is this waste of tax-payer's money going out to tender?

    That would depend on committees findings I'd expect?


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    #78
    thomasj
    Registered Users Posts: 4,785 ✭✭✭thomasj


    Hasn't this already been done in the UK?

    Haven't people gone to prison for what they posted on Facebook?


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    #79
    Slideshowbob
    Registered Users Posts: 2,460 ✭✭✭Slideshowbob


    I've created a wider discussion on the topic of online anonymity in Ireland in the Philosophy forum.

    Please feel free to view and discuss there.

    Link:

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=82457482#post82457482


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    #80
    Javan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 265 ✭✭Javan


    flynnlives wrote: »
    except your wrong, there is no anonymity on the internet, there never was.

    Everything can be traced back to your ip address.

    An IP address is not a person.

    Given the widespread use of NAT, it is probably not even a single computer.


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    #81
    Javan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 265 ✭✭Javan


    leggo wrote: »
    Why should we have the right to comment anonymously, though? What's the problem with putting your name behind what you believe...unless you plan to abuse that privilege?

    There are many problems with the idea of forcing all interaction on the net to be tied to a person. Some technical and many more sociological / political / common sense.

    A few very quick points:
    - Everyone would need to have an 'internet verified identity' of some sort, which would provide both authentication and non-repudiation. That is a technically difficult problem to solve.
    - When I say everyone, I mean everyone. The Internet does not stop at our borders, and not all sites like boards are hosted in Ireland.
    - That means this system would have to include people who need anonymity in order to post political commentary without fear or persecution or execution. Denying them anonymity would be very bad.

    Search online and you will find lots of references to problems of this sort. I suggest a good place to start is the Electronic Frontier Foundation (www.eff.org).


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    #82
    Judge Weiner
    Site Banned Posts: 28 ✭Judge Weiner


    You can get prepay internet without giving any details, pay with cash, no comeback.


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    #83
    Javan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 265 ✭✭Javan


    thomasj wrote: »
    Hasn't this already been done in the UK?

    Haven't people gone to prison for what they posted on Facebook?

    There was one case of someone posting to twitter and ending up in court over it.
    He posted what was perceived by the authorities to be a threat to blow up an airport and was prosecuted under anti-terrorism laws. He was initially found guilty and fined (not imprisoned). After two appeals the conviction was overturned.


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    #84
    DonkeyStyle \o/
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,145 ✭✭✭DonkeyStyle \o/


    Ok, well the other question is anonymous to who?
    Should our usernames here on boards be real names, and our locations be street addresses?

    Lets take this scenario... you post something that some random visitor takes issue with... they decide to order pizzas to your house and key your car. They don't post in the thread, you don't even know who they are, but they know who you are.
    If you take away every shred of anonymity, you unleash an even worse beast.
    It might sound unlikely, but it only takes a few isolated cases and there are nutters out there.

    With a username, if someone decides to stalk/harass you, you can dump that username. If you're tied to your real name online, that nutcase can stalk you from site to site forever. Let's not be so blinkered that we ignore the potentially worse scenario.
    We've gone from one extreme to the other... remember years ago where kids going online would be told never to reveal any information about themselves or the paedophiles would get them? Why the U-turn?

    In cases of school bullies leaving nasty comments, this problem would be solved with more anonymity, not less. Make it so the arseholes you know in real life can't find you, don't post pictures of yourself online and expect it's all going to be positive.

    Another issue is that we don't know what kind of data mining and analysis can be performed on things we post. What kind of real life things could a scammer find out about you based on your posts here? Maybe they could send you scams tailored to the bank you're really with, or maybe gather enough information to impersonate someone you know.
    It might be a big deal to do now, but what about 10 years down the line, when these posts are still publicly available and processing power is more plentiful?

    So it comes back to... how anonymous? If I say my name is Paddy Reilly, which one of 10,000 am I? And how is that really useful?
    Maybe only site operators can see someone's full address... but anyone can operate a site, including people with malicious intent.
    If we go further up the chain, it's the ISPs who hold our identity, which is where we already are now. If the operators of boards.ie want my real name and address, they can already do that via my ISP and the Gardaí. I'm not anonymous here. So what problem are we solving?

    The chain of custody on our identity can only be changed for the worse IMO, because at every other level there's the possibility of abuse.


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    #85
    Jimoslimos
    Registered Users Posts: 4,930 ✭✭✭Jimoslimos


    leggo wrote: »
    Why should we have the right to comment anonymously, though? What's the problem with putting your name behind what you believe...unless you plan to abuse that privilege?
    Why shouldn't we?

    The problem is as I see it is too much weight gets put upon comments made on social media sites, and usually as a result of lazy journalism from the more traditional forms of media. It's akin to having a journalist eavesdropping and reporting on conversations with your mates down the pub.


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    #86
    Javan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 265 ✭✭Javan


    Jimoslimos wrote: »
    Why shouldn't we?

    The problem is as I see it is too much weight gets put upon comments made on social media sites, and usually as a result of lazy journalism from the more traditional forms of media. It's akin to having a journalist eavesdropping and reporting on conversations with your mates down the pub.

    Unfortunately that analogy of a conversation with your mates down the pub does not apply. When you use twitter or facebook you are publishing, so the real-world analogy is more like this:
    You have a chat with your mates in the pub then take a transcription of the chat, photocopy it and post it in a couple of public locations.

    By posting here you are doing more than having a chat about it in a private or semi-private setting; you are publishing your opinions for the world to see.


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    #87
    Son Of A Vidic
    Registered Users Posts: 32,370 ✭✭✭✭Son Of A Vidic


    flynnlives wrote: »
    Fine Gael want to "regulate public comments" on social media

    Well they weren't called The Blueshirts for nothing you know.


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    #88
    DonkeyStyle \o/
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,145 ✭✭✭DonkeyStyle \o/


    leggo wrote: »
    Why should we have the right to comment anonymously, though?
    It depends on whether you view a right as something that's given to you, or the lack of a restriction placed on you.
    To think about it another way, what right does the government or the people at large have to impose rules on other people? For the greater good? To protect another individual's rights?
    leggo wrote: »
    What's the problem with putting your name behind what you believe...unless you plan to abuse that privilege?
    Well I've already given some examples above, but I also believe you should be able to walk away from some stupid, ill-informed opinion or bad joke you shared with the internet when you were 14, rather than having it follow you to job interviews for the rest of your life. People mature, outlooks change. I don't buy this whole line of no-forgiveness and stand over what you say forever. Nobody is the same person they were 10 years ago, and if they are, they're probably doing it wrong.


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    #89
    Jimoslimos
    Registered Users Posts: 4,930 ✭✭✭Jimoslimos


    Javan wrote: »
    Unfortunately that analogy of a conversation with your mates down the pub does not apply. When you use twitter or facebook you are publishing, so the real-world analogy is more like this:
    You have a chat with your mates in the pub then take a transcription of the chat, photocopy it and post it in a couple of public locations.

    By posting here you are doing more than having a chat about it in a private or semi-private setting; you are publishing your opinions for the world to see.
    I'm not sure I agree with the 'publishing' analogy either. In many cases it would be like a guy in a corner talking to himself and a hundred invisible journalists taking transcripts which are reported elsewhere. In most cases it is not the OP reposting.

    Simplify: Conversations on twitter shouldn't be reported outside twitter, same applies for Facebook, boards.ie, etc.


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    #90
    periodictable
    Closed Accounts Posts: 931 ✭✭✭periodictable


    Earn your pay and there's no need to fear any bad commentary.
    Brings to mind the phrase "all the news that's fit to print"....


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    #91
    Javan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 265 ✭✭Javan


    Jimoslimos wrote: »
    I'm not sure I agree with the 'publishing' analogy either. In many cases it would be like a guy in a corner talking to himself and a hundred invisible journalists taking transcripts which are reported elsewhere. In most cases it is not the OP reposting.

    Simplify: Conversations on twitter shouldn't be reported outside twitter, same applies for Facebook, boards.ie, etc.

    ... but it is the OP publishing. If you want to talk to yourself then keep a diary. Twitter and facebook and boards are not private diaries; their purpose is to enable communication between vast numbers of people. Like it or not when you have a communication from one person made available to large numbers of others, that is publishing.


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