PowerSlam's PS50 (Top 50 Wrestlers of 2012) Result

rovert

The PS50 lists the top 50 wrestlers today based on in-ring contributions. Previous winners are:

1994: Shawn Michaels
1995: Mitsuharu Misawa
1996: Shawn Michaels (2)
1997: Bret Hart
1998: Stone Cold Steve Austin
1999: Chris Benoit
2000: Triple H
2001: Stone Cold Steve Austin (2)
2002: Kurt Angle
2003: Kenta Kobashi
2004: Chris Benoit
2005: AJ Styles
2006: Edge
2007: Kurt Angle (2)
2008: Shawn Michaels (3)
2009: Rey Mysterio
2010: Kurt Angle (3)
2011: Hiroshi Tanahashi

Here’s the PS 50 for 2012:

1. Hiroshi Tanahashi
2. Austin Aries
3. CM Punk
4. Kazuchika Okada
5. Prince Devitt
6. Daniel Bryan
7. CIMA
8. Tetsuya Naito
9. Kevin Steen
10. AJ Styles
11. Shingo Takagi
12. Low Ki
13. Akira Tozawa
14. Kurt Angle
15. Davey Richards
16. Christopher Daniels
17. Shinsuke Nakamura
18. Jun Akiyama
19. Bobby Roode
20. Hirooki Goto
21. El Generico
22. Dolph Ziggler
23. Sheamus
24. PAC
25. Kenny Omega
26. Yamato
27. Randy Orton
28. Samoa Joe
29. Ryusuke Taguchi
30. Kota Ibushi
31. Suwama
32. Jeff Hardy
33. Naomichi Marufuji
34. Karl Anderson
35. Masaaki Mochizuki
36. Ricochet
37. Alberto Del Rio
38. Kazarian
39. Michael Elgin
40. Matt Jackson
41. Eddie Edwards
42. KENTA
43. Nick Jackson
44. Minoru Suzuki
45. James Storm
46. Rockstar Spud
47. Noam Dar
48. Bully Ray
49. El Ligero
50. Kofi Kingston

No major issues with the list. Besides ranking Aries over Punk and Powerslams longstanding Cena hate.

GTR63

Was hoping Jeff Hardy would be higher than 32, he had a great year imo. Glad that AJ made the top 10 despite lousy booking he had great matches with Daniels and tag matches. Cena will NEVER make the PS50 never,ever.

Riddle101

Why would John Cena make the list? He hasn't done anything noteworthy in ring wise. His matches this year have sucked.

Machismo Fan

Riddle101 wrote: »

Why would John Cena make the list? He hasn't done anything noteworthy in ring wise. His matches this year have sucked.

Ignoring his top quality matches with Rock, Brock, Punk and Ziggler?

Machismo Fan

It's largely a decent list though personally I would rank Aries above Punk, and I do agree that Hardy deserves a little higher.

starviewadams

The fact that Kofi Kingston and both the Jackson's are on that list and Cena isn't makes it a complete and utter farce.Cena doesn't know enough movez for Fin's liking I suppose.

Glad I stopped buying PS!

Charisteas

No Cena is a joke, but delighted Aries, Styles and Daniels ranked so high though Jeff Hardy and Bobby Roode seem to be in each others place.

What chance Devitt will be signed by an American promotion in 2013?

10 TNA wrestlers compared to 7 WWE makes me happy

Machismo Fan, high five..........

GTR63

Charisteas wrote: »

No Cena is a joke, but delighted Aries, Styles and Daniels ranked so high though Jeff Hardy and Bobby Roode seem to be in each others place.

What chance Devitt will be signed by an American promotion in 2013?

10 TNA wrestlers compared to 7 WWE makes me happy

Machismo Fan, high five..........

WWE are surely after Devitt, i'd rather he went to Tna but its not my choice as for the tna:wwe ratio i'm glad cause I have a feeling Hell No will get Tag Team of the Year on here despite Bad Influence being as entertaining and having a lot more good tag matches, there I said it.

rovert

Charisteas wrote: »

What chance Devitt will be signed by an American promotion in 2013?

GTR63 wrote: »

WWE are surely after Devitt, i'd rather he went to Tna but its not my choice

As Powerslam magazine pointed out this month WWE were after one of Devitt's counterparts PAC for YEARS. However PAC for his own reasons choose to defer it. Besides the practical issues of passports, moving and figuring out his personal life. I don't think he felt he was ready over the last few years he made a serious effort become more rounded in the ring than just a flyer and putting on an eye brow raising amount of muscle mass. What a preamble. :P In short it is a big decision with a lot pre-planning especially those who are non-US residents.

I KNOW WWE is well aware of Devitt and he has many supporters in WWE. But Devitt has an amazing work life balance, is very well paid and is treated and booked like a star by an honourable promotion. Even in regards to the small things - New Japan pays for his travel while WWE buries JTG for months on end for complaining about going into a hole paying for it Wrestlemania weekend. His relationship with the promotion at this stage would be on par with AJ Style's with TNA. Almost a son.

I do think Devitt is cut from a different cloth he doesn't really talk in real life like an Americanised "Hey brother" rassler or has that mentality he is a normal lad from Bray. By all accounts he is very happy were he is too even if he gives the never say never answer when asked for WWE. If went to WWE and TNA I would really be concerned about his promo ability which isn't great as he never had to cut them. New Japan has a more sports based approach so all Fergal has to is his best Match of The Day style post match interview - putting over his opponent, the win and how close the match was.

On Charisteas's question I don't think if he was going to jump it would be in 2013. New Japan rested him in 2012 from January to November and going by reports have major plans to push him strong again in 2013.

Edit: Just like to add I would sell a kidney for Devitt to become a PWG regular.

gnfnrhead

I don't see why Devitt would want to leave NJPW. He has it great over there and there is the option of moving up divisions in the future if that's what he wanted. I'm sure NJPW would do whatever was needed, within reason, to keep him happy. Unless he was guaranteed a lot of money regardless of what happens and a spot near the top of the card, he'd be mad to even think about going to TNA but especially WWE.

If I were him, I'd stay in NJPW and have the occasional tour in the States but not be a regular anywhere.

rovert

gnfnrhead wrote: »

I don't see why Devitt would want to leave NJPW. He has it great over there and there is the option of moving up divisions in the future if that's what he wanted. I'm sure NJPW would do whatever was needed, within reason, to keep him happy. Unless he was guaranteed a lot of money regardless of what happens and a spot near the top of the card, he'd be mad to even think about going to TNA but especially WWE.

If I were him, I'd stay in NJPW and have the occasional tour in the States but not be a regular anywhere.

New Japan is the best booked promotion and with the iPPV boon there seems to be a real sense of vitality about it too.

Your post reminded me of one of my favourite Tweets ever. Just so curt, so succinctly Irish. It was after Meltzer talked him up huge on a podcast.

Andersonisgod

Machismo Fan wrote: »

Ignoring his top quality matches with Rock, Brock, Punk and Ziggler?

Carried by Punk and a breathtaking one man show from Brock Lesnar. Ziggler match was good but helped by gimmicks and again an excellent worker. Take away the fanfare, the big crowd reactions and you are left with just a decent match between The Rock and John Cena, nothing more and not a patch of The Rock vs Hogan at Wrestlemania 18.

Ando's Saggy Bottom

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Carried by Punk and a breathtaking one man show from Brock Lesnar. Ziggler match was good but helped by gimmicks and again an excellent worker. Take away the fanfare, the big crowd reactions and you are left with just a decent match between The Rock and John Cena, nothing more and not a patch of The Rock vs Hogan at Wrestlemania 18.

Jaysus Cena must only weigh four stone the way he's so easy to carry.

Cena bashing is sooooo 2006 dude.

gnfnrhead

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Carried by Punk and a breathtaking one man show from Brock Lesnar. Ziggler match was good but helped by gimmicks and again an excellent worker. Take away the fanfare, the big crowd reactions and you are left with just a decent match between The Rock and John Cena, nothing more and not a patch of The Rock vs Hogan at Wrestlemania 18.

Pick any worthwhile (as in not Zack Ryder etc) wrestler on the roster and if they had a proper match against Cena, it was probably one of their best of the year.

Ziggler's MOTY? Probably Cena. Lesnar's MOTY? Cena. Rock's MOTY? Cena. Punk's match of the year? Bryan, but Cena probably second.

Andersonisgod

Pete Campbell wrote: »

Jaysus Cena must only weigh four stone the way he's so easy to carry.

Cena bashing is sooooo 2006 dude.

I have nothing particularly against Cena but the question is why didn't he get into the Powerslam top 50, I've given you the answer. Post the same examples to Powerslam and they will likely reply with something along the same lines as my comment.

It's not a criticism that he is carried by superior workers. That he understands his limitations and allows himself to be carried is a credit to him and shows that his ego isn't out of control on that respect. There was no way he was getting into the top 50 based on the matches that were listed. Ziggler and Punk rightly made it in based on the strength of their performances in their matches with Cena and others throughout the year. Lesnar entered a breathtaking, Shawn Michaels in his prime, style one man show at Backlash, probably the best I've seen in WWE since Umaga's one man show against Cena at the Royal Rumble a few years ago. It's not Cena hating, it's noting a simple fact, Cena's opponents do so much work to get great matches out of the man.

Ando's Saggy Bottom

Andersonisgod wrote: »

I have nothing particularly against Cena but the question is why didn't he get into the Powerslam top 50, I've given you the answer. Post the same examples to Powerslam and they will likely reply with something along the same lines as my comment.

It's not a criticism that he is carried by superior workers. That he understands his limitations and allows himself to be carried is a credit to him and shows that his ego isn't out of control on that respect. There was no way he was getting into the top 50 based on the matches that were listed. Ziggler and Punk rightly made it in based on the strength of their performances in their matches with Cena and others throughout the year. Lesnar entered a breathtaking, Shawn Michaels in his prime, style one man show at Backlash, probably the best I've seen in WWE since Umaga's one man show against Cena at the Royal Rumble a few years ago. It's not Cena hating, it's noting a simple fact, Cena's opponents do so much work to get great matches out of the man.

Stop taking some magazine's list as Gospel and make your own mind up! The Powerslam 50 - LOL.

You keep listing great great matches Cena has been in over the years but each and every one is a "one man show?" Give me a break. These arguments were tiresome six years ago. Now they're twice as boring.

Andersonisgod

gnfnrhead wrote: »

Pick any worthwhile (as in not Zack Ryder etc) wrestler on the roster and if they had a proper match against Cena, it was probably one of their best of the year.

Ziggler's MOTY? Probably Cena. Lesnar's MOTY? Cena. Rock's MOTY? Cena. Punk's match of the year? Bryan, but Cena probably second.

That's an unfair basis on which to judge the individual contributions to the match though. I actually think Ziggler vs Daniel Bryan on Raw or Ziggler vs Randy Orton at Night of Champions may have been better. How many matches did The Rock have? Punk's had a few excellent matches against a lot of opponents but of course his matches with Cena have been up there, a lot of credit inevitably goes to Punk, the layout of the match and hot crowds (which is what Cena brings to the table).

Andersonisgod

Pete Campbell wrote: »

Stop taking some magazine's list as Gospel and make your own mind up! The Powerslam 50 - LOL.

You keep listing great great matches Cena has been in over the years but each and every one is a "one man show?" Give me a break. These arguments were tiresome six years ago. Now they're twice as boring.

Ehh I've watched WWE all year, I think I'm in a decent place to make my own mind up.

Surely you must wonder why Cena never appears in these lists? It's not simply PS "hating" after all I remember one year Cena did make it in, as has Batista for his best year in the ring. I named 2 terrific one man shows that spans the course of 5 years (Royal Rumble 2007 and Backlash 2012) that's hardly everyone that he's wrestled.

But it's the same argument because the facts still haven't changed.

GTR63

gnfnrhead wrote: »

Rock's MOTY? Cena.

That was his only match though and honestly was at best an average match. I would find it hard to grade Cena in the PS50 i'd put him in the high 30's cause I wouldn't put him on near the level of a Styles, Aries, Punk or Tanahashi.

DM_7

Orton 27

But no Cena

That makes no sense.

Ando's Saggy Bottom

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Ehh I've watched WWE all year, I think I'm in a decent place to make my own mind up.

Surely you must wonder why Cena never appears in these lists? It's not simply PS "hating" after all I remember one year Cena did make it in, as has Batista for his best year in the ring. I named 2 terrific one man shows that spans the course of 5 years (Royal Rumble 2007 and Backlash 2012) that's hardly everyone that he's wrestled.

But it's the same argument because the facts still haven't changed.

If you're in a decent place to make your own mind up then you have no need to be worrying about Cena never being in these lists.

If the argument is whether he is in the Top 50 workers of 2012 then IMO undoubtedly yes. He has given way too many great showings on the big stage not to be included. Especially looking at some of the guys who made it.

Machismo Fan

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Take away the fanfare, the big crowd reactions and you are left with just a decent match between The Rock and John Cena, nothing more and not a patch of The Rock vs Hogan at Wrestlemania 18.

Take the crowd out of any match and it'll nearly always fall flat no matter how good the work is (just watch a TNA PPV in Orlando to prove that). Crowds make matches.

Ando's Saggy Bottom

Machismo Fan wrote: »

Take the crowd out of any match and it'll nearly always fall flat no matter how good the work is (just watch a TNA PPV in Orlando to prove that). Crowds make matches.

See Joe vs Kobashi from ROH for the best possible example.

GTR63

Machismo Fan wrote: »

Take the crowd out of any match and it'll nearly always fall flat no matter how good the work is (just watch a TNA PPV in Orlando to prove that). Crowds make matches.

Is the halftime heat match between Rock and Mankind anygood I always enjoyed their matches at the time and never got round to watching that match.

Andersonisgod

Pete Campbell wrote: »

If you're in a decent place to make your own mind up then you have no need to be worrying about Cena never being in these lists.

If the argument is whether he is in the Top 50 workers of 2012 then IMO undoubtedly yes. He has given way too many great showings on the big stage not to be included. Especially looking at some of the guys who made it.

That logic is simply wrong. Hulk Hofan was carried through numerous excellent matches but would you put him on par with Flair or Misawa in terms of ring work?

He's been part of some excellent matches this year (though it's far from his best year) but if you honestly think he is one of the top 50 workers in the world then I don't know what to say to you. Of the 4 wrestlers you named who had matches with Cena this year it's a safe bet that he called only 1 of those matches (vs The Rock) and that was an average match that will have been laid out step by step, probably by Pat Patterson.

Andersonisgod

Machismo Fan wrote: »

Take the crowd out of any match and it'll nearly always fall flat no matter how good the work is (just watch a TNA PPV in Orlando to prove that). Crowds make matches.

Obviously the crowd is an important factor but that Wrestlemania main event was soley on the crowd, it was the only remarkable thing about the match, the ring work was basic, The Rock gassed (understandable given how little ring time he had beforehand) and with the limitations of the two wrestlers (The Rock was a fine worker in his prime it must be said) it was never going to be a high quality match.

Andersonisgod

Pete Campbell wrote: »

See Joe vs Kobashi from ROH for the best possible example.

Ye th crowd play a big part in that match but the work in the ring is top notch stuff. A super stiff battle.

DM_7

Can you give us the likely reasoning behind Ortons selection then? He missed three months of the year through Injury and suspension.

Personal opinions on what Cena is or is not its clear Powerslam have a problem with Cena and they snub him when the list comes around for what they want to see not what he actually does.

Also Sheamus not in the top 20 for in ring work in 2012 makes me hold the list and its compilers in even less regard. How many other wrestlers were on RAW and Smackdown every week as well as PPVs in good/really good matches with everyone from Bryan or Punk to Big Show or Tensai.

Lord TSC

Thats the thing for me. If the argument was just "Cena is not on the list because his ring work wasn't up to scratch", it's one thing, but Kofi Kingston ranked above him, and how many high quality matches did Kofi have in comparison to Cena?

I also think it depends on your definition of "good" matches; for me, it's more than technical skill involved when it comes to good to great matches. Good matches need hot crowds who are drawn into the story as well, and in all fairness to Cena, his matches tend to always get the crowd going.

It's even worse when you read through the two page write up explaining why some people did and didn't get on the list, and, afaik, they ignore Cena completely. They don't even have the guts to justify their own decision. Though, maybe they knew it would cause controversy and did that on purpose...

Ando's Saggy Bottom

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Ye th crowd play a big part in that match but the work in the ring is top notch stuff. A super stiff battle.

It was no stiffer the any midcard Puro match. It was a run through Kobashi's repertoire of moves against a plucky home promotion underdog. Put that match on in Japan and its three stars at best. Put it on in front of a group of knowledgeable sparks delighted to see a legend in the flesh and its close to 5 stars. Difference being the insane crowd reactions which the wrestlers fed into perfectly.

Same with the Dragon Gate 6 man matches in ROH. Normal DG six man exhibitions made twice as awesome by the rabid and knowledgeable audience.

GTR63

Power Slam's e-mail address is info@psmag.co.uk
If anybody wants to respond to them about their list or ask them why Cena wasn't in it.
There is also one for their monthly Q and A section at powerslam@globalnet.co.uk

DM_7

GTR63 wrote: »

Power Slam's e-mail address is info@psmag.co.uk
If anybody wants to respond to them about their list or ask them why Cena wasn't in it.
There is also one for their monthly Q and A section at powerslam@globalnet.co.uk

nah

I don't need to ask them about the list they printed - I think its ****, the list won't change and my opinion won't change by asking them about it.

Ando's Saggy Bottom

Andersonisgod wrote: »

That logic is simply wrong. Hulk Hofan was carried through numerous excellent matches but would you put him on par with Flair or Misawa in terms of ring work?

He's been part of some excellent matches this year (though it's far from his best year) but if you honestly think he is one of the top 50 workers in the world then I don't know what to say to you. Of the 4 wrestlers you named who had matches with Cena this year it's a safe bet that he called only 1 of those matches (vs The Rock) and that was an average match that will have been laid out step by step, probably by Pat Patterson.

Cena is one of the top 20 workers in the world I'd say. There's more to wrestling than nice suplexes and chin wrestling. Wrestling is basically guys pretending to fight yet Cena manages to get people involved in his matches like few others. And that at the end of the day is really what its all about.

PS Hogan was a brilliant worker, possibly the best ever for this reason. You don't have to break your neck with suicide dives every night to be the best in the game.

Riddle101

Pete Campbell wrote: »

Cena is one of the top 20 workers in the world I'd say. There's more to wrestling than nice suplexes and chin wrestling. Wrestling is basically guys pretending to fight yet Cena manages to get people involved in his matches like few others. And that at the end of the day is really what its all about.

PS Hogan was a brilliant worker, possibly the best ever for this reason. You don't have to break your neck with suicide dives every night to be the best in the game.

It all depends really. There are so many wrestlers who could be considered brilliant workers. Yes it's not all about suicide dives, suplexes and chain wrestling but it still doesn't stop the fact that there are wrestlers far greater then Cena and Hogan were.

I mean you've got guys like Pat Patterson, Jerry Lawler, Ric Flair, Randy Savage, the Funks, the Von Erichs, the Briscos, Harley Race, Dusty Rhodes, Ricky Steamboat, Bob Backlund, Lou Thez and those are just old timers. But even later on Dynamite Kid, Chris Benoit, Dean Malenko, Eddie Guerrero, Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels, Curt Hennig, Chris Jericho, Stone Cold, Owen Hart, Mick Foley etc. Then you've also got Japanese wrestlers like Mitsaru Misawa and Kenta Kobayashi. I'm sure there are more names you could throw in there.

Andersonisgod

Pete Campbell wrote: »

Cena is one of the top 20 workers in the world I'd say. There's more to wrestling than nice suplexes and chin wrestling. Wrestling is basically guys pretending to fight yet Cena manages to get people involved in his matches like few others. And that at the end of the day is really what its all about.

PS Hogan was a brilliant worker, possibly the best ever for this reason. You don't have to break your neck with suicide dives every night to be the best in the game.

Then our definition of what defines how quality in ring work are entirely different. I'd define it as how good your matches are, your input into those matches, the ability to tell a story in the ring and the ability to get over you and your rival. Who was the last star that Cena made?

You have to differentiate between best drawing card and best in ring worker. Hulk Hogan is the biggest draw ever in wrestling, Cens is one of the biggest draws ever too. That doesn't make them great in ring workers. To say that Hogan is the best in ring worker ahead of Kobashi, Michaels, Benoit ect. simply isn't correct.

Andersonisgod

DM-ICE wrote: »

Can you give us the likely reasoning behind Ortons selection then? He missed three months of the year through Injury and suspension.

Personal opinions on what Cena is or is not its clear Powerslam have a problem with Cena and they snub him when the list comes around for what they want to see not what he actually does.

Also Sheamus not in the top 20 for in ring work in 2012 makes me hold the list and its compilers in even less regard. How many other wrestlers were on RAW and Smackdown every week as well as PPVs in good/really good matches with everyone from Bryan or Punk to Big Show or Tensai.

I don't see New Japan or All Japan each week this I can't comment on their selections. However I assume that given that PS do cover both promotions and their pics that they can justify their decision as they watch those promotions and WWE.

Personally I'm a fan of Orton's ring work, I think he's an excellent worker and one of he best in WWE for years.

Andersonisgod

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Thats the thing for me. If the argument was just "Cena is not on the list because his ring work wasn't up to scratch", it's one thing, but Kofi Kingston ranked above him, and how many high quality matches did Kofi have in comparison to Cena?

I also think it depends on your definition of "good" matches; for me, it's more than technical skill involved when it comes to good to great matches. Good matches need hot crowds who are drawn into the story as well, and in all fairness to Cena, his matches tend to always get the crowd going.

It's even worse when you read through the two page write up explaining why some people did and didn't get on the list, and, afaik, they ignore Cena completely. They don't even have the guts to justify their own decision. Though, maybe they knew it would cause controversy and did that on purpose...

Perhaps Kofi's work inside the ring has been deemed to be more than that of Cena's.

Maybe they didn't feel the need to justify the decision as its possible he wasn't even close to being in the running. When a man as experienced as Cena is still can't throw a right hand, can't apply an stf (his finisher no less) and has some of the most robotic selling and irritating delivery of anyone I've witnessed in my lifetime then it hardly needs a great lot of justifying really.

Lord TSC

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Perhaps Kofi's work inside the ring has been deemed to be more than that of Cena's.

Maybe they didn't feel the need to justify the decision as its possible he wasn't even close to being in the running. When a man as experienced as Cena is still can't throw a right hand, can't apply an stf (his finisher no less) and has some of the most robotic selling and irritating delivery of anyone I've witnessed in my lifetime then it hardly needs a great lot of justifying really.

Regardless of what side you're on and what you think of his work, Cena is the biggest wrestler on the planet. In terms of the industry, there is no bigger character or personality at the moment. As such, it's baffling to not at least justify his omission. It's one thing to leave him off, but they definitly should have explained it...

Andersonisgod

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Regardless of what side you're on and what you think of his work, Cena is the biggest wrestler on the planet. In terms of the industry, there is no bigger character or personality at the moment. As such, it's baffling to not at least justify his omission. It's one thing to leave him off, but they definitly should have explained it...

I really don't think that they have to. They've made it clear that the rankings are based on ring work and, to a lesser extent, success over the course of the year. Cena's ring work is basic at best.

GTR63

DM-ICE wrote: »

nah

I don't need to ask them about the list they printed - I think its ****, the list won't change and my opinion won't change by asking them about it.

And yet you moan...

Lord TSC

GTR63 wrote: »

And yet you moan...

Ach now, the nature of these lists is they are meant to be debated. There was a very obvious omission from the list, and people are questioning why. That's not moaning, it's discussion.

Ando's Saggy Bottom

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Then our definition of what defines how quality in ring work are entirely different. I'd define it as how good your matches are, your input into those matches, the ability to tell a story in the ring and the ability to get over you and your rival. Who was the last star that Cena made?

You have to differentiate between best drawing card and best in ring worker. Hulk Hogan is the biggest draw ever in wrestling, Cens is one of the biggest draws ever too. That doesn't make them great in ring workers. To say that Hogan is the best in ring worker ahead of Kobashi, Michaels, Benoit ect. simply isn't correct.

Hogan did all the things that you ascribe to a great worker brilliantly. Wrestling is about telling a story and gettimg the audience to care enough to pay good money to see it. Hogan and Cena are better than most at this.
As for Cena making people I Would contend that the likes of Umaga, Punk, Edge, Orton and more recently ZIggler have allhad their reputations enhanced by stepping into the ring with him. If he is lacking in a major pass the torch moment its because hes still in his prime and generally is booked very strongly and loses cleanly rarely.

Ando's Saggy Bottom

O

Andersonisgod wrote: »

I don't see New Japan or All Japan each week this I can't comment on their selections. However I assume that given that PS do cover both promotions and their pics that they can justify their decision as they watch those promotions and WWE.

Personally I'm a fan of Orton's ring work, I think he's an excellent worker and one of he best in WWE for years.

Orton had a nothing year. Name the matches he had in 2012 that justify his inclusion on the list?

Andersonisgod

Pete Campbell wrote: »

Hogan did all the things that you ascribe to a great worker brilliantly. Wrestling is about telling a story and gettimg the audience to care enough to pay good money to see it. Hogan and Cena are better than most at this.
As for Cena making people I Would contend that the likes of Umaga, Punk, Edge, Orton and more recently ZIggler have allhad their reputations enhanced by stepping into the ring with him. If he is lacking in a major pass the torch moment its because hes still in his prime and generally is booked very strongly and loses cleanly rarely.

Except that both Cena and Hogan (except for his time in Japan) work the same basic match over and over again with few variations to the formula. Watch great workers, Benoit, Guerrero, Styles, Punk all of whom were able to mix it up and work different kinds of matches.

How? Umaga really got over based on the strength of his breathtaking performance in his match with Cena (which he lost by the way). Punk was over with the hardcore fanbase before he even debuted in ECW, got over with the WWE audience as a heel in his programme with Jeff Hardy, became a permanent fixture in the main event scene after his "shoot" promo on Raw. Edge got over as a future main event singles star during his time on Smackdown in 2002, became the top heel after getting the "rated R superstar" gimmick and when his relationship with Lita became common knowledge. Orton's been a star since Evolution, his programme with Cena didn't accentuate his position, it was headliner vs headliner. Ziggler's had 1 ppv win vs Cena, has lost numerous times to him on ppv and has yet to see any benefits of his programme with Cena. Again, who has Cena actually gotten over?

rossie1977

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Lesnar entered a breathtaking, Shawn Michaels in his prime, style one man show at Backlash, probably the best I've seen in WWE since Umaga's one man show against Cena at the Royal Rumble a few years ago. It's not Cena hating, it's noting a simple fact, Cena's opponents do so much work to get great matches out of the man.

what a load of absolute nonsense, yeah brock a man who hadn't wrestled for years pulled off a one man show, i suppose brock was the guy selling for the majority of the match too making brock look like a monster :rolleyes:

we saw at summerslam how good cena was when hhh/brock produced a match that wasn't a patch on cena/lesnar, there isn't a single person on the wwe roster that would have allowed themselves to be hit as hard as cena was hit that night with brock

meltzer has ranked 18 of cenas ppv singles matches **** or above, those matches cover a vast array of opponents from punk, del rio, edge, hbk, umaga, lashley, jbl, ziggler, orton, batista and a variety of different types of matches ie TLC, Ladder, 1 hour iron man, 1 hour traditional rules, I Quit, working with a broken ring, mma style, last man standing...........yeah cena can't work

GTR63

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Ach now, the nature of these lists is they are meant to be debated. There was a very obvious omission from the list, and people are questioning why. That's not moaning, it's discussion.

But as I said earlier they never compliment Cena instead knit picking the flaws so I would of been flabbergast had they picked him. Don't get why Orton was so high he had one shock entertaining no DQ match with Kane and a okay but NOBODY cared feud with Del Rio.

DM_7

GTR63 wrote: »

And yet you moan...

Ando's Saggy Bottom

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Except that both Cena and Hogan (except for his time in Japan) work the same basic match over and over again with few variations to the formula. Watch great workers, Benoit, Guerrero, Styles, Punk all of whom were able to mix it up and work different kinds of matches.

How? Umaga really got over based on the strength of his breathtaking performance in his match with Cena (which he lost by the way). Punk was over with the hardcore fanbase before he even debuted in ECW, got over with the WWE audience as a heel in his programme with Jeff Hardy, became a permanent fixture in the main event scene after his "shoot" promo on Raw. Edge got over as a future main event singles star during his time on Smackdown in 2002, became the top heel after getting the "rated R superstar" gimmick and when his relationship with Lita became common knowledge. Orton's been a star since Evolution, his programme with Cena didn't accentuate his position, it was headliner vs headliner. Ziggler's had 1 ppv win vs Cena, has lost numerous times to him on ppv and has yet to see any benefits of his programme with Cena. Again, who has Cena actually gotten over?

Ive listed wrestlers who have come out of their programmes enhanced by Cena. All youve done is list how over they were beforehand! If you think having the most memorable match of his career and being made look an absolute beast by Cena didnt help Umaga for ecxample then I dont know what to say.

You seem to go to outrageous lengths to come up with reasons not to give Ena credit yet happily stand over a list that excludes him at the expense of the likes of Kofi. Who has he ever "made" in his life!?

Andersonisgod

rossie1977 wrote: »

what a load of absolute nonsense, yeah brock a man who hadn't wrestled for years pulled off a one man show, i suppose brock was the guy selling for the majority of the match too making brock look like a monster :rolleyes:

we saw at summerslam how good cena was when hhh/brock produced a match that wasn't a patch on cena/lesnar, there isn't a single person on the wwe roster that would have allowed themselves to be hit as hard as cena was hit that night with brock

meltzer has ranked 18 of cenas ppv singles matches **** or above, those matches cover a vast array of opponents from punk, del rio, edge, hbk, umaga, lashley, jbl, ziggler, orton, batista...........yeah cena can't work

Watch the match again, Lesnar is top drawer throughout. It's a monster performance, the sharpness of the execution, the killer facial expressions, the way he carries himself makes the entire thing feel big time. Yes credit to Cena for absorbing the Lesnar offence but this was the Brock Lesnar show from start to finish, one of the finest one man shows in WWE this decade.

That is pretty much the wrestling equivalent of saying "Spurs beat Man Utd, Chelsea beat Spurs so Chelsea ate better than Man Utd" it's a hugely flawed logic.

Punk, Del Rio, Edge, HBK, Umaga, Ziggler, Orton and (a motivated) Batista. All ranging from very good to world class workers.

Jbl at Judgement Day was a great performance by both and far exceeded expectations though they were aided by the I quit gimmick. Credit to him for the Lashley ppv match (Great American Bash I think) it also exceeded expectations, please excuse me though if two ppv matches against average opponents warrants comments such as calling him one of the best workers ever.

Andersonisgod

Pete Campbell wrote: »

Ive listed wrestlers who have come out of their programmes enhanced by Cena. All youve done is list how over they were beforehand! If you think having the most memorable match of his career and being made look an absolute beast by Cena didnt help Umaga for ecxample then I dont know what to say.

You seem to go to outrageous lengths to come up with reasons not to give Ena credit yet happily stand over a list that excludes him at the expense of the likes of Kofi. Who has he ever "made" in his life!?

Being made to look like a beast by Cena? The man could have been in the ring with a broom and he still would have looked like a beast that night.

Actually I've been entirely fair with the credit I've given to Cena. I've given him credit for having the humility to be carried by superior workers, I'll give him credit for not having an ego like previous top dogs in WWE, he is very much a company man. But to call a man who can work one style of match one of the greatest workers ever is crazy.

You mean mid carder Kofi Kingston hasn't made anyone a big star? Take a read if Ric Flair's book, he clearly explains what's expected of the top star of the company.

Ando's Saggy Bottom

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Being made to look like a beast by Cena? The man could have been in the ring with a broom and he still would have looked like a beast that night.

Actually I've been entirely fair with the credit I've given to Cena. I've given him credit for having the humility to be carried by superior workers, I'll give him credit for not having an ego like previous top dogs in WWE, he is very much a company man. But to call a man who can work one style of match one of the greatest workers ever is crazy.

You mean mid carder Kofi Kingston hasn't made anyone a big star? Take a read if Ric Flair's book, he clearly explains what's expected of the top star of the company.

One style of match? Rossie has already listed all the diferent tyoes of match he has excelled infrom one hour matches to street fights etc etc!

UMaga was great as a beast in all his matches bt his absolute peak was when he was in with CEna.

Its clear youre one of these pompous smarks that will go to idiculous lengths to belittle Cena no matter what. No wonder you like Powerslam so much!