Property Tax 2013 Poll will you Pay it or Fight it?

Mr CJ

As it says in the title are you going to pay the new property tax willingly or will you fight it as much as you can because you believe the government are in the wrong with this one?

What describes you?

1. I have paid the Household Charge & will pay the property tax
2. I have not paid the Household Charge but I will pay up in 2013
3. I regret paying the Household Charge & will fight the property tax
4. I have not paid the household charge & will fight the property tax

The_Thing

The blue-shirts can just fcuk off and die.

IF those are the four options it is a poor poll.

What about if it doesn't impact you, or if you don't like it but are going to pay it anyways?

MadsL

Thinly disguised "how do you post a poll?" thread

phkk

It's St Stephens Day, enjoy it ffs!

bbam

Only idiots will try and fight revenue from collecting this money.

Whatever efforts people may make politically in advance of its due date mid year. Once revenue are handed the go-ahead then the game is over.

Well for the most who are PAYE it will be stopped from your wages before you get it.

wexie

Mr CJ wrote: »

As it says in the title are you going to pay the new property tax willingly or will you fight it as much as you can because you believe the government are in the wrong with this one?

What describes you?

1. I have paid the Household Charge & will pay the property tax
2. I have not paid the Household Charge but I will pay up in 2013
3. I regret paying the Household Charge & will fight the property tax
4. I have not paid the household charge & will fight the property tax

How would you suggest fighting it? Last I heard the 'government' have now given themselves the power to take the property tax directly from your bank account (maybe someone can confirm)? The only thing I can see people can do is to just up and leave.

I'll gladly take any suggestions you have to get rid of the shower of nepotist ***** running this country though....and yes yes I'm sure (I'm actually not really, but lets assume) there are a couple of good ones, we can hang them to the side.

Mr CJ

Deleted User wrote: »

IF those are the four options it is a poor poll.

What about if it doesn't impact you, or if you don't like it but are going to pay it anyways?

If it does not impact you well simply dont vote what is the point in that option anyway. Same with "I will pay but dont like it" , I dont like any tax myself but I pay it so to me thats irrelevant.

Just wanted to stick to the main questions

Thanks for the feedback

Mr CJ

bbam wrote: »

Only idiots will try and fight revenue from collecting this money.

Whatever efforts people may make politically in advance of its due date mid year. Once revenue are handed the go-ahead then the game is over.

Well for the most who are PAYE it will be stopped from your wages before you get it.

I dont think half the population will agree with that, how can a small group in comparison control so many people? There is power in numbers and im sure their will be plenty of ways for people to fight back and resist them as much as possible.

orestes

FIGHT DA POWAH!

*puts on Che t-shirt and Rage Against the Machine album*

bbam

But that's the thing. Unless you somehow get a political reversal then the game is up.
There is no avoiding revenue. You might dodge it for a while, but all the time you'll be accruing penalties and interest.
Then when they get you they'll have their pound of flesh, and then some.

How do people think they can avoid revenue collecting this.

Where's the "paid the Household Charge late and reluctantly and will pay the property tax as there is no real choice" option.

If you're a tax payer (I am) you're caught by the balls in their vice and the revenue will turn the screw if you don't pay!.

We're well and truly screwed!

If, on the other hand you live in a house you own outright and living off unearned income* (not visible to the revenue) chances are you'll die of old age before they catch up with you.

*Private pension from abroad and the like.

Ghandee

Meh.....

Can't fight revenue me arse.

This property tax only exists until the next political parties promise to abolish it and any penalties tied to it in the next general election.

The current regime won't last forever, that's all people have to understand, and if you did the right thing by not registering for the hhc, you've a head start on your neighbours who did.

I'll pay domestic rates many many times the price of the property tax on the condition the rates had services attached like they do in the uk, but I won't pay a.bondholder/CPA tax.


They can phuck right off.

Mr CJ

Deleted User wrote: »

Where's the "paid the Household Charge late and reluctantly and will pay the property tax as there is no real choice" option.

If you're a tax payer (I am) you're caught by the balls in their vice and the revenue will turn the screw if you don't pay!.

We're well and truly screwed!

If, on the other hand you live in a house you own outright and living off unearned income* (not visible to the revenue) chances are you'll die of old age before they catch up with you.

*Private pension from abroad and the like.

So lets just say they make a law tomorrow forcing everyone to pay a new tax of €20,000 a year and they pass it on to revenue to collect.

So what happens we just sit back and give it just like the property tax because it is the law set by dictators?

My main question is where does it end? If we continue to sit back and be controlled by criminals anything can happen. We need to have some backbone and stand up to them. If almost 50% of the population are against the household charge I can see strike action, people are not going to just give up without a fight

monkeypants

wexie wrote: »

The only thing I can see people can do is to just up and leave.

If you leave your house behind and rent it out, is it still liable for this tax?

Ghandee

monkeypants wrote: »

If you leave your house behind and rent it out, is it still liable for this tax?

Yes.

Stheno

monkeypants wrote: »

If you leave your house behind and rent it out, is it still liable for this tax?

Yes and then you'd have to pay the NPPR as well

kowloon

Ghandee wrote: »

Meh.....

Can't fight revenue me arse.

They're weak against fire.

Ghandee

kowloon wrote: »

They're weak against fire.

They were weak enough against a certain pink shirted TD also, let's not forget.

Mr CJ

Mr CJ wrote: »

So lets just say they make a law tomorrow forcing everyone to pay a new tax of €20,000 a year and they pass it on to revenue to collect.

So what happens we just sit back and give it just like the property tax because it is the law set by dictators?

My main question is where does it end? If we continue to sit back and be controlled by criminals anything can happen. We need to have some backbone and stand up to them. If almost 50% of the population are against the household charge I can see strike action, people are not going to just give up without a fight

Those of us who resisted the household charge until it became effectively futile to continue, did make a stand. A wise general knows when to retreat and when to dig in!

Non payment is not the best option, there are other (legal) options that unfortunately are likely to hurt others first, or less legal options that would make the Greek protests look like a tea party.

How do you plan to fight it, general strike for example.

squod

Quitters, losers and quears will of course cave in. For those who won't pay I salute you. Never surrender.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0JsPXg-e1s

Sheeps

The_Thing wrote: »

The blue-shirts can just fcuk off and die.

**** you! Blue shirts are great so long as they're well made and a good fit! They go well as part of almost any outfit, so long as you follow the basic fashion rules.

Ghandee

Ghandee wrote: »

Meh.....

Can't fight revenue me arse.

This property tax only exists until the next political parties promise to abolish it and any penalties tied to it in the next general election.

The current regime won't last forever, that's all people have to understand, and if you did the right thing by not registering for the hhc, you've a head start on your neighbours who did.
.

Problem is, they plan to up the "fine" to €100 and add it to the first years property tax, so unless you're planning to move house or skip the country soon, they'll catch you.

When you say "the current Regime", do you mean the Troika (who call the shots) or the Irish (puppet) government. Any future government will be bound by the rules of the Troika and won't be able to repeal it. Barring something radical like quitting the Euro.

flutered

is it the owner or the user, i.e. householder who pays, if there are squatters in the house do they pay, if the owner cannot be traced who pays.

Ghandee

Deleted User wrote: »

Those of us who resisted the household charge until it became effectively futile to continue, did make a stand. A wise general knows when to retreat and when to dig in!

Non payment is not the best option, there are other (legal) options that unfortunately are likely to hurt others first, or less legal options that would make the Greek protests look like a tea party.

How do you plan to fight it, general strike for example.

Dolan, their is strength in numbers.

Rolling over for a belly rub won't achieve much.

Fighting revenue/govt every inch of the way can make this tax un-collectable, if everyone took the approach of thinking they could make a difference by not paying the country could start to change..

Next year the govt, without a moan or a whinge have earmarked 1 billion euro for the public service increments etc (not wages) protected by the CPA.

To put it in perspective, the property tax (with 100% compliance, highly unlikely) is expected to take in €500million.

Exactly half of those increments.

flutered

flutered wrote: »

is it the owner or the user, i.e. householder who pays, if there are squatters in the house do they pay, if the owner cannot be traced who pays.

The state is the ultimate owner of all property if no one else can be traced!

In other words, the taxpayer (us all).

mikemac1

Since local authority tenants don't pay the council pays for them

The council better not be broke or they'll be fining themselves!

Ghandee

Deleted User wrote: »

Problem is, they plan to up the "fine" to €100 and add it to the first years property tax, so unless you're planning to move house or skip the country soon, they'll catch you.

Its as plain to see as the nose on my face that no-one seems to have a baldy notion who has/has not paid the hhc anyway, letters sent to dead people and ones who've already paid it, so telling them you have should confuse them even more IMO.

Deleted User wrote: »

When you say "the current Regime", do you mean the Troika (who call the shots) or the Irish (puppet) government. Any future government will be bound by the rules of the Troika and won't be able to repeal it. Barring something radical like quitting the Euro.

I mean Kenny/Gilmore partnership.

The troika are on record as saying they aren't in the slightest bit concerned as to how our where the money comes from, property tax/wealth tax/ftt's, they do not care.

FG even in their last manifesto were against a property tax (changed once they got into govt however:rolleyes:)

Labour, in fairness were, but in their manifesto their property tax was a site valued one, ie even developers/speculators with land banks would have been hit.

FG, for reasons known only to themselves decided to go after family homes instead.

I'll be in my cold cold grave before I pay it though.

I'll bet my house on it.

fuerte1976

We live on a (private) managed estate. We own the house and pay our dues for our services every year.
They can kiss my hoop for all I care. I'm paying no more after forking a fortune on stamp duty too :mad::mad:

GRMA

The_Thing wrote: »

The blue-shirts can just fcuk off and die.

My thoughts exactly

Hippies!

I won't be paying. Me and my kind won't be paying. There's still a small number of us around, me and my kind...patriots, people with a backbone, people willing to fight for what is just, people willing to take a stand even though all around them the weak crumble and betray their own...oh yes, me and my kind will fight this and fight it on behalf of those who turn against us

M cebee

didn't get a bill yet

themadchef

Deleted User wrote: »

Where's the "paid the Household Charge late and reluctantly and will pay the property tax as there is no real choice" option.

If you're a tax payer (I am) you're caught by the balls in their vice and the revenue will turn the screw if you don't pay!.

We're well and truly screwed!

This...

I was having the craic with the lady who does up the wages and she told me revenue are taking it directly from our wages next year.

There is no avoiding this for people who work. Anyone who is payrolled and not paying this is fighting a losing battle. The day that empty pay slip lands on the table dont say you had no idea and start wringing your hands.

I paid mine €129 a couple of days before Christmas because i have NO choice. It is what it is. We have no choice...

the groutch

still havent registered for HHC, will wait and see how things pan out, still at least another 6 months in this saga

Lone Stone

havent payed havent registered and i dont have the money to pay it anyway so what the are they going to do about it.

Syman

themadchef wrote: »

This...

I was having the craic with the lady who does up the wages and she told me revenue are taking it directly from our wages next year.

There is no avoiding this for people who work. Anyone who is payrolled and not paying this is fighting a losing battle. The day that empty pay slip lands on the table dont say you had no idea and start wringing your hands.

I paid mine €129 a couple of days before Christmas because i have NO choice. It is what it is. We have no choice...

Hi, I am an employer myself, surprisingly some people think revenue stop your money which is not the case, its your employer that stops any payments for tax, prsi etc dictated by guidelines issued by the revenue.

In order for this to be successful employers must comply with the new guidelines for this tax to be collected from employees. I am willing to take the risks and will not comply with revenue on this occasion.

Hopefully I will not be the only small company doing this and perhaps a few big companies will follow suit if enough companies and people stand together on this the new tax will be un-collectable.

If you follow/obey a lying government who themselves dismiss our very own constitution and who have breached it several times with their new policy, please ask yourself what kind of a person does that make you?

You might respond with "a law biding citizen" yes you are correct like most of Germany before and during WWII

A person who follows a law without question is a hypocrite and has no respect for the law. You must ask yourself 3 simple questions before obeying a law, is it morral, just & fair, and the answer is no to all 3 for the property tax

dvpower

the groutch wrote: »

still havent registered for HHC, will wait and see how things pan out, still at least another 6 months in this saga

In six months time, your €100 HHC gets automatically converted to a €200 property tax charge that the Revenue will collect.

With the Revenue having been handed the gig, the game has changed, because if they fail to collect, their reputation for being able to collect all of their other taxes will be badly damaged. They obviously won't let that happen, so you can expect rigorous enforcement.
Revenue don't have a Minister in charge (they are an Office, not a Department), so any seemingly draconian measures they use can easily be deflected by the politicians.

In the absence of a well organised campaign against the Property tax, a campaign with an actual strategy, it will be enforced. That campaign doesn't exist.

nice_very

I see the young fine gael shower are around again.. to the 51% of pathetic sheeple who said they paid the HC and will pay the PT, you are traitors to this country, how many of you have relations abroad due to mismanagement, corruption and downright contempt for this country by the govt to the favour of foreign bankers/gamblers? about time you all woke up.


also, there is a choice, what would happen if the same amount of people who didnt pay the HC decided not to pay car tax, refuse tax, and any other tax that is not deducted at source from wages? the govt would have to have another rethink about who to bail out, the people or the banks.

hooradiation

Hippies! wrote: »

I won't be paying. Me and my kind won't be paying. There's still a small number of us around, me and my kind...patriots, people with a backbone, people willing to fight for what is just, people willing to take a stand even though all around them the weak crumble and betray their own...oh yes, me and my kind will fight this and fight it on behalf of those who turn against us

Patriots?

Well whatever fairytale you need to justify your actions to yourself, I guess.

MadsL

...but, but... rent is dead money!??

nice_very

hooradiation wrote: »

Patriots?

Well whatever fairytale you need to justify your actions to yourself, I guess.

once upon a time there were bankers........................... TLDR: they fckued the country and now we all have to pay???? fairytale indeed, how is that 5 point plan working out for you?

dvpower

nice_very wrote: »

also, there is a choice, what would happen if the same amount of people who didnt pay the HC decided not to pay car tax, refuse tax, and any other tax that is not deducted at source from wages? the govt would have to have another rethink about who to bail out, the people or the banks.

That's a lot of what-ifs. But back in the real world it isn't going to happen, so you probably need to start thinking of a better idea.

IM0

in b4 the move to that other big stupid thread on this which prob goes over the same rubbish :rolleyes:

Death and Taxes

Paid the HHC and will pay this one.
Really surprised it to us this long to introduce a property tax.

dvpower

Syman wrote: »

In order for this to be successful employers must comply with the new guidelines for this tax to be collected from employees. I am willing to take the risks and will not comply with revenue on this occasion.

Have you considered that your employees might want you to make the deduction from their salaries?
What gives you the right to use your workers as pawns in your own little protest?

keithclancy

dvpower wrote: »

Have you considered that your employees might want you to make the deduction from their salaries?
What gives you the right to use your workers as pawns in your own little protest?

Well it wouldn't be coming out of their Salary if they paid it right ?

So if they didn't pay it directly, they probably wouldn't want to get raped at source.

juan.kerr

monkeypants wrote: »

If you leave your house behind and rent it out, is it still liable for this tax?

If you leave it in the UK or somewhere outside of Ireland then probably not.

dvpower

keithclancy wrote: »

Well it wouldn't be coming out of their Salary if they paid it right ?

No. Its going to be a payment option.

squod

Syman wrote: »

You might respond with "a law biding citizen" yes you are correct like most of Germany before and during WWII

Thank God for people like you. A little common sense and a pair of balls goes a long way in defeating these schitz .

dvpower

squod wrote: »

Thank God for people like you. A little common sense and a pair of balls goes a long way in defeating these schitz .

... but a workable plan would be even better.

Chips Lovell

Deleted User wrote: »

If, on the other hand you live in a house you own outright and living off unearned income* (not visible to the revenue) chances are you'll die of old age before they catch up with you.

*Private pension from abroad and the like.

Actually this is one of the reasons I like the idea of a property tax, because it helps to pull these kinds of people into the tax net. It's easier to hide an unearned income than it is a house. We can't continually expect ordinary PAYE workers to shoulder the load. Need to ferret out more of those people living off property and investments flying under the radar.

bbam wrote: »

Well for the most who are PAYE it will be stopped from your wages before you get it.

According to the outline published with the Budget, deduction at source is an option, rather than obligatory. It only gets taken from your pay packet if you want it to be. So that employer who said he won't be complying is only inconveniencing his own employees.