Pro12: MUNSTER V USLTER - XMAS CRACKER - 29TH DECEMBER - K.O 5.30PM - RTE/BBCNI

rilz

I reckon Ulster will do Munster. Thoughts?

Kristopherus

rilz wrote: »

I reckon Ulster will do Munster. Thoughts?

No, Reds all the way:D:D:D

Fishooks13

rilz wrote: »

I reckon Ulster will do Munster. Thoughts?

In a sexual sense? I don't see it happening. O'Gara doesn't give it up that easy

Squ

Ulster will embarrass Munster.
And I have plenty of money where my mouth is.

Fishooks13

Squ wrote: »

Ulster will embarrass Munster.
And I have plenty of money where my mouth is.

No they won't. I think they'll beat us on current form. But it'll be by ten points max

SomeFool

Squ wrote: »

Ulster will embarrass Munster.
And I have plenty of money where my mouth is.

You might want to check with the lad in the first Saracens game thread who thought the same :pac:

thomond2006

The Xmas/New Year scheduling seems a bit kinder to Ulster this year so hopefully we won't see the Ulster U20s sent down to Thomond like at the RDS last year.

Lelantos

Any team with Nick Williams in it must be feared....

BBDBB

Ulster are solid and patient in defence and clinical when attacking. They have a monstrous pack and are unbeaten in the rabo

Munster are a side in transition, new coach, new gameplan that is coming together but still misfires

its not really sticking your neck out to say that Ulster are the favourites is it?

thomond2006

BBDBB wrote: »

Ulster are solid and patient in defence and clinical when attacking. They have a monstrous pack and are unbeaten in the rabo

Munster are a side in transition, new coach, new gameplan that is coming together but still misfires

its not really sticking your neck out to say that Ulster are the favourites is it?

You need to see lineups before sticking your neck out, Munster are sending a weakened side to Connacht today whereas Ulster played a near full strength lineup last night. If both sides were at full strength though Ulster would be favourites.

BBDBB

fair points thomond

bilston

I fully expect Munster to win this one but lets see the teams first.

Hippo

thomond2006 wrote: »

You need to see lineups before sticking your neck out, Munster are sending a weakened side to Connacht today whereas Ulster played a near full strength lineup last night. If both sides were at full strength though Ulster would be favourites.

This, precisely. It's unlikely Ulster will send anything like a full side, whereas Munster being at home will put out a strong team.

GerM

Regardless of whether Ulster send a full side or not, they'll have played 3 very physical games in a row. The players will be feeling it. Munster's players have today off aside from a few lads. They'll be refreshed and ready next week. I can't see beyond them winning, to be honest whether Ulster put out a strong side or not. We know Munster's first team will be playing.

leonard7

Fishooks13 wrote: »

In a sexual sense? I don't see it happening. O'Gara doesn't give it up that easy

if only he was more of a slut with the ireland jersey

phog

Can a mod add KO time and TV stations on title?

At Thomond Park, 5.30pm.

Referee: Alain Rolland (IRFU, 53rd competition game)
Assistant Referees: Dudley Phillips, Sean Gallagher (both IRFU)
Citing Commissioner: Tom McCormack (IRFU)
TMO: Kevin Beggs (IRFU)

Live on RTE Sport and BBC NI

thomond2006

Assuming no internationals are available, I'd like to see:

du Preez, Sherry, Botha, Nagle, Holland, DOCII, TOD, Cawlin;
Stringer, Keatley, LOD, JJ, Laulala, Howlett, Hurley

Bench: Varley, Horan, Archer, Foley, Butler, Williams, Downey, Murphy

We badly need to look at new centre options or just use Downey more to truck it up, which bizarrely we don't seem to do often.

Fireball07

^Killer is technically an international though.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Varley start this one if he's fit.

And how long was Earls supposed to be out for?

thomond2006

Fireball07 wrote: »

^Killer is technically an international though.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Varley start this one if he's fit.

And how long was Earls supposed to be out for?

Yikes just noticed that.

P_1

thomond2006 wrote: »

Assuming no internationals are available, I'd like to see:

du Preez, Sherry, Botha, Nagle, Holland, DOCII, TOD, Cawlin;
Stringer, Keatley, LOD, JJ, Laulala, Howlett, Hurley

Bench: Varley, Horan, Archer, Foley, Butler, Williams, Downey, Murphy

We badly need to look at new centre options or just use Downey more to truck it up, which bizarrely we don't seem to do often.

Internationals should be available
AFAIK they have to be rested for 1 of the 2 interpros this christmas.

As munster sent the 2nds up to Galway...

gooch2k9

Why rest the internationals for the interpros? Shouldn't these games be when the provinces are obliged to put out their best for international selection reasons?

P_1

gooch2k9 wrote: »

Why rest the internationals for the interpros? Shouldn't these games be when the provinces are obliged to put out their best for international selection reasons?

The 'delightful' instrument that is the player welfare system

gooch2k9

pithater1 wrote: »

The 'delightful' instrument that is the player welfare system

I agree with the player welfare but surely not for the inter provincials. These are the games where the best of the Irish should play each other IMO. And that would mean starting the best Irish player every province has. Would be better to rest the internationals against an Italian team or Dragons instead.

Deano7788

gooch2k9 wrote: »

I agree with the player welfare but surely not for the inter provincials. These are the games where the best of the Irish should play each other IMO. And that would mean starting the best Irish player every province has. Would be better to rest the internationals against an Italian team or Dragons instead.

The provinces don't really seem have a choice in the matter. It seems they can only play in 1 of the 2 Christmas inter-pros. Happens every year.

gooch2k9

Deano7788 wrote: »

The provinces don't really seem have a choice in the matter. It seems they can only play in 1 of the 2 Christmas inter-pros. Happens every year.

Aye, I was thinking it would make sense that the IRFU use these games to see who the best of the Irish were. On second thought two games wouldn't be great for judging.

Deano7788

i thinks it's down to the timing as well. I think they can only play in so many matches between the end of November tests and the end of the group stages of the Heineken. They play the week before the 3rd HC match to get back up to speed, and then there's the 4 HC matches themselves so there's not much leeway left. It is a bit of a shame alright, though.

Clareman

Players are people too and many of them have young families, they are allowed some time off like the rest of us.

Besides that, the international scene is split into 3, Autumn Internationals, 6 Nations and end of Season tours. Players are usually given a break after each of of these, for Summer tours players are given a few weeks off at the start of the season, for Autumn players are allowed play a certain amount of games until the 6 Nations, between the 6 Nations and End of Season players usually play all the games. It's also good to see backup players play against each other, you probably wouldn't learn anything from having the first and second choice players for Ireland playing against each other that you wouldn't see in training in the camps.

Saying all that, it irks me no end that each season I pay my season ticket to go to all the games, HEC games and Interpro games are tier 1 games and I have to pay more for those than I do for other Rabo games without having the top players on show.

P_1

It's an unhappy coincidence influenced by

1 - The season structure, effectively the Rabo is bookended by the internationals and each round of the Heineken.

2 - The logistical setup of the league, it makes sense to have the teams who have the least distance to travel to play each other, play each other over the Christmas period.

3 - The player welfare system, which is influenced by the season structure.

awec

I fancy Munster to beat us unfortunately. I don't think well have a line up as strong as Friday there, and its a huge ask away from home.

Digifriendly

awec wrote: »

I fancy Munster to beat us unfortunately. I don't think well have a line up as strong as Friday there, and its a huge ask away from home.

Tend to agree but defeat shouldn't be fatal to Ulster's chances in the Rabo. The Scarlets game at home a week later is of greater importance IMHO.

liammur

Fishooks13 wrote: »

No they won't. I think they'll beat us on current form. But it'll be by ten points max

Losing at home by 10 points is a big defeat by any standards.

mfceiling

liammur wrote: »

Losing at home by 10 points is a big defeat by any standards.

Not really........it could be a 3 point game going into the last 2 minutes and a breakaway/intercept try could see a team run out 10 point victors even though the game could have been on a knife edge for the previous 78 minutes.

P.Walnuts

mfceiling wrote: »

Not really........it could be a 3 point game going into the last 2 minutes and a breakaway/intercept try could see a team run out 10 point victors even though the game could have been on a knife edge for the previous 78 minutes.

C'mon now, this is just being argumentative for the sake of it. For a team like Munster, who have a tradition of being very strong at home any 10 point defeat would be considered heavy. I don't see how this could be argued against.

mfceiling

P.Walnuts wrote: »

C'mon now, this is just being argumentative for the sake of it. For a team like Munster, who have a tradition of being very strong at home any 10 point defeat would be considered heavy. I don't see how this could be argued against.

Again not really, any team can be strong at home and get caught with a sucker blow at the end of a tight game........i wouldn't say that 10 points is a big defeat in that context.

Ulster destroyed northampton in franklins gardens and then get beaten by the kick of a ball in ravenhill....didn't seem to affect northampton in ravenhill.

dandynamo

Ulster tow win by 5-10 points just too much quality for Munster. I rate Ulster in the top 3 teams in European Rugby

Deano7788

dandynamo wrote: »

Ulster tow win by 5-10 points just too much quality for Munster. I rate Ulster in the top 3 teams in European Rugby

Even it's mainly their 2nds against mainly Munster's 1sts, as looks likely?

dandynamo

Deano7788 wrote: »

Even it's mainly their 2nds against mainly Munster's 1sts, as looks likely?

Oh i didnt take notice of the teams sheets. Yeah that changes it in Munster favour

the_doctor199

Have a feeling this could be our first league defeat of the year too, I'd probably take a LBP if its a weakened side were sending.

PJBotha

Ullsterrr have no chance of winning this.

Deano7788

PJBotha wrote: »

Ullsterrr have no chance of winning this.

And your reasoning for thinking this is...?

liammur

P.Walnuts wrote: »

C'mon now, this is just being argumentative for the sake of it. For a team like Munster, who have a tradition of being very strong at home any 10 point defeat would be considered heavy. I don't see how this could be argued against.

Dead right.

I think Munster will win, I'm not sure Ulster are as good as everyone thinks, they've played no very good teams yet. Not saying Munster are v good at the moment, but there's a score or 2 to settle.

Fishooks13

liammur wrote: »

Dead right.

I think Munster will win, I'm not sure Ulster are as good as everyone thinks, they've played no very good teams yet. Not saying Munster are v good at the moment, but there's a score or 2 to settle.

Well they've beaten Clermont at home last year and nearly bet them away too. Not to mention they bet Leinster, Munster, Northampton and Ospreys this season. Basically they've beaten every big side put in front of them. Who would you class as a very good team?

liammur

Fishooks13 wrote: »

Well they've beaten Clermont at home last year and nearly bet them away too. Not to mention they bet Leinster, Munster, Northampton and Ospreys this season. Basically they've beaten every big side put in front of them. Who would you class as a very good team?

We're talking about this season.

The league is very average so far imo.

Fishooks13

liammur wrote: »

We're talking about this season.

The league is very average so far imo.

I was talking about this season too, but you're actually backing up my point by discounting Ulster beating Clermont comfortably at home last year considering they weren't half as good as they are now. Ospreys, Leinster and Munster are hardly bad teams? Not to mention a really good win on the road to Zebre, which was nearly a 3rd string Ulster team.

Ulster have beaten every team put in front of them this season bar one slip up in the return HC back to back. What good teams are they not beating?

PhatPiggins

Fishooks13 wrote: »

I was talking about this season too. Ospreys, Leinster and Munster are hardly bad teams? Not to mention a really good win on the road to Zebre, which was nearly a 3rd string Ulster team.

Ulster have beaten every team put in front of them this season bar one slip up in the return HC back to back. What good teams are they not beating?

They played Clermont last season. I think his point is valid. They've beaten the top three Pro12 teams all of whom are in transition and are 1 from 2 against the fourth/fifth best team in the AP.

Ulster are good and improving but their achievements need to be kept in perspective with the quality of the opposition.

Fishooks13

PhatPiggins wrote: »

They played Clermont last season. I think his point is valid. They've beaten the top three Pro12 teams all of whom are in transition and are 1 from 2 against the fourth/fifth best team in the AP.

Ulster are good and improving but their achievements need to be kept in perspective with the quality of the opposition.

Which I acknowledged

I just think it's completely unfair and lazy to try and write off Ulster's form by saying they haven't beaten any good teams when they clearly have.

They've been the best team in the rabo by a distance. And would be my 2nd favorites for the HC

CatFromHue

Ulster have beaten every team in the league at this stage, so fair play.

What is relevant I think is that Ulster only beat Munster by 1 point in Ravenhill in September where the teams where relatively the same as they will be on the weekend, assuming the Irish players don't play.

liammur

Fishooks13 wrote: »

I was talking about this season too, but you're actually backing up my point by discounting Ulster beating Clermont comfortably at home last year considering they weren't half as good as they are now. Ospreys, Leinster and Munster are hardly bad teams? Not to mention a really good win on the road to Zebre, which was nearly a 3rd string Ulster team.

Ulster have beaten every team put in front of them this season bar one slip up in the return HC back to back. What good teams are they not beating?

You're getting all confused. Last season Leinster demolished them in the H Cup final. That didn't make them bad, but it's more reflective of where they are imo.

You seem to think I'm critical of Ulster, I'm not. They've made great progress over the last few years. What I am questionning is the form of the teams they've played.

Fishooks13

liammur wrote: »

You're getting all confused. Last season Leinster demolished them in the H Cup final. That didn't make them bad, but it's more reflective of where they are imo.

You seem to think I'm critical of Ulster, I'm not. They've made great progress over the last few years. What I am questionning is the form of the teams they've played.

It's completely unrelfective of where they are now considering how much they have improved under Anscombe in terms of both style of play and form and consistency

Ulster are a much better team now than they were last year.

Have you anything to further your point that you don't think they're as good rather than coming out with stuff like "they've not bet any good teams yet"?

It's just a lazy way of trying to write off a team

liammur

PhatPiggins wrote: »

They played Clermont last season. I think his point is valid. They've beaten the top three Pro12 teams all of whom are in transition and are 1 from 2 against the fourth/fifth best team in the AP.

Ulster are good and improving but their achievements need to be kept in perspective with the quality of the opposition.

Spot on, we can get all carried away and say Scarlets are great, they are 2nd in the Rabo!

If we look at the H Cup groups, we can quickly see that the Rabo teams are hugely struggling this year, with the notable exception of Ulster

liammur

Fishooks13 wrote: »

It's completely unrelfective of where they are now considering how much they have improved under Anscombe in terms of both style of play and form and consistency

Ulster are a much better team now than they were last year.

Have you anything to further your point that you don't think they're as good rather than coming out with stuff like "they've not bet any good teams yet"?

It's just a lazy way of trying to write off a team

Calm down.

Wait until the business end of the season and we'll see exactly where they are. That'll tell you knows their rugby.