Howth Mausers fired again.

time lord

I see the/some Howth Mausers were fired again for the first time since 1916. The group are looking into the mt. Street battle engagement specifically. It would be good if it makes it to the screen in some fashion.

gobnaitolunacy

What group is doing this?

time lord

Several enthusiasts linked through the Midland Rifle club I believe.

tac foley

time lord wrote: »

I see the/some Howth Mausers were fired again for the first time since 1916. The group are looking into the mt. Street battle engagement specifically. It would be good if it makes it to the screen in some fashion.

See also the thread started a few days ago on

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056836573

tac

time lord

tac foley wrote: »

See also the thread started a few days ago on

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056836573

tac

They are using the exact type used in the Mt. St. Battle engagement, that's why those weapons were chosen.

tac foley

time lord wrote: »

They are using the exact type used in the Mt. St. Battle engagement, that's why those weapons were chosen.

I appreciate that point, Sir, but wonder what they are trying to prove by shooting them again. We know that 11mm bullets made of hardened lead or .303 bullets will go through both sides of a person, let alone a cute-looking blue plastic barrel full of water, and that a breeze-block - NOT invented at the time of the Mount St siege BTW - is no defence against either. Not too sure about the arse-end view of a Mauser bullet showing in a bullet-proof vest - AFAIK, nobody on either side of the Rising wore one of them.

So apart from having the great fun of shooting documented historical firearms, what was the point of the exercise involving the august and learnéd personages from NUI/Maynooth and the PDF?

And this investigation into sundry bangs, 'recoi'l and 'effectiveness' will last for a year? Sign ME up!

One of my old guns was captured in the Battle of Korannafontein on May 9/10 1901, and I get a real hoot out of shooting it, but I don't have to dress up my shooting fun with serious chin-rubbing consideration, evaluation and pondering every time I squeeze that trigger. I've been to where it happened all those years ago, and can see it all in my mind, especially the view that Piet Huijsen, the original owner of my Mauser carbine, must have seen as he looked down the sights at the enemy.

tac

PS - I'd be very interested to know where they found the ammunition for the Mauser...

time lord

I am not involved with project but Ireland being Ireland degrees of separation are small so I know some of the people involved. With the anniversary of 1916 coming up and people competing in similar spheres I wouldn't feel it's my place to publically chat about their aims or endeavours beyond what was in the Times or on the six one news.
However if the subject is of interest to you beyond what's entertaining for the photo shoot I can pm you a lot of what's being undertaken. I warn you it might be quite boring

tac foley

TL - thanks for the offer there, much appreciated. It might be a plan to let you know that we shoot the Mauser Model of 1871/84 with both the original Black Powder loads and paper-patched bullets as well as a replication load using modern nitro-based propellant.

One smokes like O'Fogarty's Bar on a saturday night, and other is, well, smokeless. I'm betting that the ammunition provided to the boys in 1916 would have been the original BP stuff, and by that time, pretty much sh!te.

Just in case you care to pass on the message, and for the general delight and delectation of the rest of you, here is the original loading data that we replicate in full -

370gr paper-patched bullet over a 1/8th thick grease cookie over 77gr of Fg black powder.

That load gives us an average velocity of 1430fps with about 1600 ft lbs m/e. Off a rest, we can keep all our shots in about 5-6" at 100m, but then WE are not being shot at. Note also that the firing signature of this type of rifle is a HUGE flame, about two feet long. VERY easy to spot, as I'm sure you'd agree.

See here - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sn6B8hvrXC8

and here - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwJHYVAyENk

Enjoy!

tac

pedroeibar1

tac foley wrote: »

.............
That load gives us an average velocity of 1430fps with about 1600 ft lbs m/e. Off a rest, we can keep all our shots in about 5-6" at 100m, but then WE are not being shot at. Note also that the firing signature of this type of rifle is a HUGE flame, about two feet long. VERY easy to spot, as I'm sure you'd agree.

tac

That's fine from a rifle, but I fired the pistol years ago, clipped the butt to the holster / stock, could not hit a da@m@ed thing, 'lept' all over the place. As for a huge flame, naw, my one is bigger than your's.:P;):D

Wibbs

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

That's fine from a rifle, but I fired the pistol years ago, clipped the butt to the holster / stock, could not hit a da@m@ed thing, 'lept' all over the place.

Funny enough P though I couldn't hit a barn door at 10 paces with a howitzer, many moons ago in the US I did have a go of a Mauser Broomhandle(minus the stock) and was actually hitting pretty close to where I was aiming. The guys at the range were bemused as I might well have been throwing stones with any of the other pistols I tried. I found the C96 was more stable under recoil for me anyway and easier to aim. Big heavy oul fecker it was. I recall it being beautifully made too. Maybe it was because I was young and shooting Han Solo's pistol.

Similar to what Tac mentioned above about ammo. I do clearly recall the guy at the range saying that it was more expensive to shoot as although there were modern rounds available that would fit they were too powerful and could cause dangerous failures so they had to make up rounds for it. Might have been BS I dunno? The other aspect to shooting vintage guns would be simple age and wear and tear I would think? Depending on how many rounds went through a firearm, results between a barely shot display piece and a well used ex military piece would vary a lot I would think?

Sounds like great fun for the people involved but historic/scientific data coming from it? I dunno TBH, but time will tell.

tac foley

Wibbs wrote: »

Similar to what Tac mentioned above about ammo. I do clearly recall the guy at the range saying that it was more expensive to shoot as although there were modern rounds available that would fit they were too powerful and could cause dangerous failures so they had to make up rounds for it. Might have been BS I dunno? The other aspect to shooting vintage guns would be simple age and wear and tear I would think? Depending on how many rounds went through a firearm, results between a barely shot display piece and a well used ex military piece would vary a lot I would think?

There has been NO commercial loading for the original 11mm Mauser BP cartridge since the middle 1930's.

Canadian Industries Limited - Dominion brand - of Canada once offered a smokeless load for sale in the USA and Canada - these are now collector's items. I have three unfired and paid $10 each for them about twenty years ago.

An up-graded version of the cartridge was made available for a short period of time for Heinrich Krieghoff of Suhl, to shoot in their custom-built hunting rifles, but that all ended with the start of WW2 and never resumed. Here in UK the Mauser Model 71/84 is classed as obsolete and can be owned [but not fired] without any form of license whatsoever. The ones that you see being fired on my Youtube movies are licensed Section 1 firearms.

As for being safe to shoot, your Irish guns were, according to hearsay, pretty much STS even before you got them, as a glance at the one being fired will show you. I've never seen one over here, where they are in regular use, that is as uncared for as that one appears to be. It is not my place to express concerns over the degree of expertise involved in the authentic replication of the original military loads by experts in the RoI, where reloading has only recently been introduced for modern target ammunition using modern propellants, or to query the origin of the paper-patched lead bullets, cases and hard-to-find Berdan primers, so I'll leave it at that. However, I find it odd that there is no mention of asking for any help or advice from people who DO shoot these old guns on a regular basis - the nearby HBSA and VAA in UK [shrug]. Even in the little [256 members] club to which I belong, there are at least five of them in regular use with authentic loads.

Here in UK we've been reloading this round for many years, and never managed to damage a gun yet, but then, we also have a couple of national proof houses where they can be tested before we fire a shot from them, in accordance with the laws hereabouts, and you guys don't have that facility.

Looking at it from a more parochial point of view, it's a great shame that the members of the IRISH Vintage & Classic Rifle Association - one of two such bodies on the island given over to the shooting of arms of this kind, were not involved in some way with this venture. Sure, the 11mm Mauser is a restricted firearm under current laws, but the Lee-Enfield of the appropriate vintage is a common firearm in that group of keen shooters.

@ mods - do you think that this would be a good idea to merge the threads with the one over in 'shooting'?

tac
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jonniebgood1

tac foley wrote: »

@ mods - do you think that this would be a good idea to merge the threads with the one over in 'shooting'?

Dont have the power to do this tac.

tac foley

jonniebgood1 wrote: »

Dont have the power to do this tac.

...........but, but, you're a MODERATOR...ALL-powerful and all that stuff. You can do ANYTHING!!!!

tac