How many sets?

harvester of sorrow

So,how many sets are enough to get the job done?
For example im doing about 3-4 sets to failure on each set while increasing weight each set to failure on any given exercise...
i.e Pull downs
50kgx15
60kgx12
65kgx10
70kgx8
The same for another 3 excersises on back day.

I've recently been told by some experienced lifters that this is too much and that 2-3 sets should be warm up and 1 working set to failure is enough on each excersise,but i feel i havent worked hard enough doing this,more underachieved than anything else.

So how many working sets do you do to failure per excersise,for hypertrophy/muscle gain?

Deano7788

harvester of sorrow wrote: »

So,how many sets are enough to get the job done?
For example im doing about 3-4 sets to failure on each set while increasing weight each set to failure on any given exercise...
i.e Pull downs
50kgx15
60kgx12
65kgx10
70kgx8
The same for another 3 excersises on back day.

I've recently been told by some experienced lifters that this is too much and that 2-3 sets should be warm up and 1 working set to failure is enough on each excersise,but i feel i havent worked hard enough doing this,more underachieved than anything else.

So how many working sets do you do to failure per excersise,for hypertrophy/muscle gain?

Do you work to failure every time for every lift? You'll end up burning yourself out.

harvester of sorrow

Yeah...thats what im being told!i usually have about 2-3 months good intense training but always end up getting a sore throat or something along those lines,definatley burn out!.......how many sets do you do?

Deano7788

Well I train mainly for strength rather than size (if I want to gain size I just increase my calories a bit) and I do an upper lower split rather than a body part split.

I would generally do 1 heavy lift, so it might be bench press for example. I'll do around 5 heavy sets of either 5s, triples or singles, depending on the week., and generally they'll be within about 90% of the most I've lifted that day. These will all be after a few warm ups. Then I'll do 4 or 5 other exercises and do 3 sets of between 8 and 12. This is assistance for me.

If you're training a body part split and aiming for hypertrophy I'd say try doing 3 sets of about 8 to 12 reps. If you don't think you'll get the next rep, stop. It's better to stop 1 rep short of failure than actually failing. When you can get 12 reps for all sets increase the weight

rubadub

Deano7788 wrote: »

Do you work to failure every time for every lift? You'll end up burning yourself out.

What is the reasoning behind this? Is it your CNS that that you should not push too far, or the muscle you should not push too far.

e.g. if I can do 10 pullups to failure some might recommend I only do 9. Now say I did 9 and did 5 more negative only reps straight away that time, without going to failure on them (5 may be ambitious but I do find negative only reps very easy). I expect my muscles have gotten more of a workout than 10 regular reps but I have not pushed myself too hard effort wise. I might wake up with wicked DOMs after the negative only routine, but did I go 'to failure'.

Hanley

rubadub wrote: »

What is the reasoning behind this? Is it your CNS that that you should not push too far, or the muscle you should not push too far.

e.g. if I can do 10 pullups to failure some might recommend I only do 9. Now say I did 9 and did 5 more negative only reps straight away that time, without going to failure on them (5 may be ambitious but I do find negative only reps very easy). I expect my muscles have gotten more of a workout than 10 regular reps but I have not pushed myself too hard effort wise. I might wake up with wicked DOMs after the negative only routine, but did I go 'to failure'.

I like the idea of "MMF" (ehhhhhhhhh that means momentary muscular failure) and generally refers to the concentric/up portion of a lift.

When people talk about "failure" they almost ALWAYS mean MMF on the concentric portion of the lift.

You can pretty much change any argument when you change the definition of what you're arguing about, so I'd say when someone mentions "failure" that's what they mean.

rubadub

Hanley wrote: »

I'd say when someone mentions "failure" that's what they mean.

Yes, I fully accept that, I do not want to change that definition. I want to know why people warn against it. It seems like a blanket statement that might not apply in all cases, if people are training in odd ways.

I want to know if are people using this definition as an easy method of warning against something else, which usually happens or is indicated by going to failure, but may be harder to explain/determine. Sort of like a doctor saying "if your BMI is over 26 you should lose fat", its a very easy way of trying to determine if you are overfat, but it is not applicable in all cases, its just a rule of thumb.

I have done negative only sets and found them easy but was in bits for days after, so I am wondering if this is OK or not advisable (I do realise negatives usually lead to more DOMs, but I still find the workouts hardly taxing at all). If I knew the true reasoning behind this 'don't go to failure' advise I might have a better idea. I don't mind having long gaps between training sessions, I would view it as efficient use of time.

spodoinkle

harvester of sorrow wrote: »

So,how many sets are enough to get the job done?
?

Depends on the person and the programme! A 'standard' bodybuilder programme is 3-4 sets, German volume training is 10 sets, hypertrophy specific training is 1-3 sets; all can produce results with good nutrition.

Hanley

spodoinkle wrote: »

Depends on the person and the programme! A 'standard' bodybuilder programme is 3-4 sets, German volume training is 10 sets, hypertrophy specific training is 1-3 sets; all can produce results with good nutrition.

GVT is hypertrophy specific...

jugger0

harvester of sorrow wrote: »

So how many working sets do you do to failure per excersise,for hypertrophy/muscle gain?

I'd do 3, don't think i could stop before failure unless i was doing 10 or 20 sets, wouldn't feel like i was doing enough work.

harvester of sorrow

spodoinkle wrote: »

Depends on the person and the programme! A 'standard' bodybuilder programme is 3-4 sets, German volume training is 10 sets, hypertrophy specific training is 1-3 sets; all can produce results with good nutrition.

jugger0 wrote: »

I'd do 3, don't think i could stop before failure unless i was doing 10 or 20 sets, wouldn't feel like i was doing enough work.

So 3-4 sets to failure,or 3warm upsets and 1 to all out failure?

Apologies if im overcomplicating things,just need to get my head around what is enough and what is too much.I realise that this is a very much individual thing but i reckon there is also"a rule of thumb" if you will....

jugger0

harvester of sorrow wrote: »

So 3-4 sets to failure,or 3warm upsets and 1 to all out failure?

Apologies if im overcomplicating things,just need to get my head around what is enough and what is too much.I realise that this is a very much individual thing but i reckon there is also"a rule of thumb" if you will....

Do as many warmup sets until you feel "warmed up", 1 working set seems like too little, i would prefer 3-4 working sets to failure but hey man thats just me, this is just advice man you can do whatever the fook you wanna do.

Brian?

5x5, 8x3 or 3x8.

Or ramping sets of singles to failure.

Or 10x10.

Or 3x12.

Basically it's not a question to asked or answered in isolation. You need to an intelligently written program, that's the real answer.

The_Minister

Deano7788 wrote: »

Do you work to failure every time for every lift? You'll end up burning yourself out.

Pardon my ignorance, but what is 'work to failure'?

wadacrack

rubadub wrote: »

What is the reasoning behind this? Is it your CNS that that you should not push too far, or the muscle you should not push too far.

e.g. if I can do 10 pullups to failure some might recommend I only do 9. Now say I did 9 and did 5 more negative only reps straight away that time, without going to failure on them (5 may be ambitious but I do find negative only reps very easy). I expect my muscles have gotten more of a workout than 10 regular reps but I have not pushed myself too hard effort wise. I might wake up with wicked DOMs after the negative only routine, but did I go 'to failure'.

Pullups are a bodyweight exercise so wont really hit the CNS. Weighted ones would be a different storey. In haevy compound exercises like Bench,squat,deadlift I wouldnt reccoment goin to failure.

jugger0

The_Minister wrote: »

Pardon my ignorance, but what is 'work to failure'?

Do as many reps as you can instead of stopping at a set number, you leave nothing in the tank, BALLS TO THE WALL BRAH

Deano7788

rubadub wrote: »

What is the reasoning behind this? Is it your CNS that that you should not push too far, or the muscle you should not push too far.

e.g. if I can do 10 pullups to failure some might recommend I only do 9. Now say I did 9 and did 5 more negative only reps straight away that time, without going to failure on them (5 may be ambitious but I do find negative only reps very easy). I expect my muscles have gotten more of a workout than 10 regular reps but I have not pushed myself too hard effort wise. I might wake up with wicked DOMs after the negative only routine, but did I go 'to failure'.

Sorry, only saw this now. I've read in a good few places that the CNS gets very fatigued by constant failure but I wouldn't go solely by that. I more found it through experience when I was training that way a few years ago. I'd feel run down a lot and get lots of little colds and the like, which would tie in with the CNS. Since I stopped, I've felt much better and hardly ever get sick. Also, I found (and still find when I do occasionally fail a lift) that the rest of my sets and lifts in the sessions suffer as a result. I'd stuggle with weights that I should get reasonably comfortable or would run out of steam part way through a set. My recovery would be shot to pieces as well and my lifts were going nowhere.

I think going to failure has it's place but I wouldn't recommend doing it during every set of every workout like the op was.

The_Minister wrote: »

Pardon my ignorance, but what is 'work to failure'?

It's basically lifting until you can't complete a rep, e.g. for bench press you can't get the bar completely up or for pull ups you can only bring yourself partly up.