Improving Factory CZ 452

dev110

I had the CZ up at the range today. Got it zeroed very quickly and started shooting groups. What amazed me was how accurate it was with the first 50 rounds down the barrel. I was using SK Standard Plus to start with and with one 5 round group I had 4 in one hole and 1 about 1/4" to the right at 50 yards.

At the end of the shooting I shot 5 round groups with Eley Match, RWS and Winchester Subs at 50 yards.

Eley Match

The round in the black circle is not part of this group.



RWS



Win Subs



What I plan on doing over the weekend is fitting the Yo Dave trigger kit and sanding out the barrel channel to free float the barrel. It will be interesting to see if €20 and a little elbow grease improves these groups.

clivej

Good shooting there Dev. I found the Eley in the green bos and SK in the 500 x tin were the best out'a my CZ style and then the varmint.

The YoDave trigger kit is a must BUT if you can stretch to it get a Timney replacement. It does what the YoDave does to the standard but to the YoDave.
Other mods I did to the CZ were, replaced the firing pin spring with a purpous made one, pillored bedded the action, fitted a picatinny rail, custom stock (Boyds do some nice replacement stocks).

Anyway I've just got another CZ 453 .22lr varmint so I'll have to start over again. ;)

EP90

Found the YoDave a huge improvement to, but I’m curious as to the ‘ purpose made firing pin spring’. What advantage is it over a ‘standard one’ and where would I obtain it from. Assuming the spring will need replacing at some point maybe I should consider a ‘special’

tomcat220t

EP90 wrote: »

Found the YoDave a huge improvement to, but I’m curious as to the ‘ purpose made firing pin spring’. What advantage is it over a ‘standard one’ and where would I obtain it from. Assuming the spring will need replacing at some point maybe I should consider a ‘special’

Hi EP90,its should quicken lock time and improve ignition with limited results with the cz having a sporter chamber .
Regards ,Tomcat.

loveta

Hi guys have a cz452 american stock .17 bought it new in spring 08 put a quailty scope on it (schmidt&bender 8x56fixed) had a cz.22 before it was reasonably accurate with also have a pcp air rifle and am reasonably accurate with it also but the .17 cant get a handle on it at all, Any tips on what the hell iam doing wrong got to the stage that i am boder line hate n it :0(

zeissman

www.kinneysshootingsupply.com sell upgrade parts for the cz rimfire rifles.
They are cheap enough with postage as well.

lb1981

Great Thread for one of the most popular guns in the country, im so sorry i sold my 452 American .22lr at the start of the year, deadly accurate gun.
I only received my license for my Sako quad .17hmr this morning after 9 months of fun and games,plan was buy the .17 then buy the .22lr barrel then transfer the .22 license yep if it was only that easy in this country ,in the heel of the hunt had to sell the cz one of my biggest **** ups ever.
Could not say a bad word about them and would recommend a Cz to anybody.
Savage value.
Thats nice shooting Dev.

lb1981

zeissman wrote: »

www.kinneysshootingsupply.com sell upgrade parts for the cz rimfire rifles.
They are cheap enough with postage as well.

Have used these too , great to deal with.

dev110

I always heard people saying that doing the trigger and free floating the barrel makes the rifle more accurate. I decided to do a test and see just how much it will improve with good ammo.

Ever since I had traded my .22 against my .223 I missed it. Cheap shooting and great fun. I now see why everyone says they should have a .22 in the safe.

Scalachi

I had a CZ452 Style and just fitted the Yo Dave kit and it was a great gun, very accurate

I found that it preferred the RWS R50's over every other type of ammo I tested

Regards

DB

lb1981

Mine used to love lapua subs, but you would have to buy them in bulk when the dealer got them in as they would sell out in a light

rowa

http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=197288

clivej

dev110 wrote: »

I always heard people saying that doing the trigger and free floating the barrel makes the rifle more accurate. I decided to do a test and see just how much it will improve with good ammo.

Ever since I had traded my .22 against my .223 I missed it. Cheap shooting and great fun. I now see why everyone says they should have a .22 in the safe.

I put as many different types n makes of ammo through my CZ .22'. I found that the more expensive ammo didn't shoot any better. It must be that it's not a match chamber and I'd made to shoot all the ammo that's made

dev110

I only have the rifle two days so haven't had the chance to shoot that many different brands. The ones I have tried, Eley Match, RWS, SK Standard Plus, Winchester Subs & Winchester Power Point all shot well apart from the subs. They didn't shoot well in my other .22 either.

I think with the more expensive .22 ammo you are paying for consistency.

I will keep the thread updated as I go. Won't get to see the results until after xmas/new years though.

I can't wait to shoot in a few sporter br comps now.

tomcat220t

clivej wrote: »

I put as many different types n makes of ammo through my CZ .22'. I found that the more expensive ammo didn't shoot any better. It must be that it's not a match chamber and I'd made to shoot all the ammo that's made

Hi clive ,the sporter chamber in the cz wont benefit much with match ammo .Its simply too sloppy a chamber .If you put a round in to a clean cz chamber you can feel the play/movement between the round and chamber . CZ do a supermatch .22lr rifle and is ment to have a tighter chamber than the standard sporter found in the hunting cz.Ive read where some had their cz .22lrs recut to a match chamber with great results .
Regards ,Tomcat.

dCorbus

tomcat220t wrote: »

the sporter chamber in the cz wont benefit much with match ammo

I found my own CZ DOES shoot MUCH better with Match Ammunition, as opposed to with my usual non-match fodder, particularly out at 100yards. Have put pretty much most readily available rounds through the CZ452 at this stage and the Match ammo wins hands-down.

Plinking and not-too-bothered at 50m: I use Eley Sport usually. When I'm a bit more serious or in a competition, I use CentreX in the CZ. Trust me, there is a difference!

Probably nothing to with the chamber, just the match ammo is more consistent and manufactured to a higher standard and is better quality-controlled. Hence the price difference!!

Rarely used the CZ for benchrest comps, mainly coz I don't shoot BR, but for Sporter-type competitions, the boxes of CentreX come out of the cupboard.

clivej

tomcat220t wrote: »

Hi clive ,the sporter chamber in the cz wont benefit much with match ammo .Its simply too sloppy a chamber .If you put a round in to a clean cz chamber you can feel the play/movement between the round and chamber . CZ do a supermatch .22lr rifle and is ment to have a tighter chamber than the standard sporter found in the hunting cz.Ive read where some had their cz .22lrs recut to a match chamber with great results .
Regards ,Tomcat.

I'm in mind to get the chamber on the CZ varmint re-cut to match dimensions. Any idea who can do this for me??

IRLConor

tomcat220t wrote: »

Hi clive ,the sporter chamber in the cz wont benefit much with match ammo .Its simply too sloppy a chamber.

dCorbus wrote: »

I found my own CZ DOES shoot MUCH better with Match Ammunition

And this difference is the reason for the cheaper price of the CZ compared to more expensive more accurate guns. Some will be slightly better than others and some will respond well to match ammo and some won't. If you crank out lots of something the tolerances tend to go down so the variability in the product will go up. It means you'll have to put a little more effort into finding ammo it likes and accept that you'll get slightly larger groups than the more finely machined, more expensive alternatives.

Don't get me wrong, if I was in the market for such a rifle I would almost certainly buy a CZ. Their performance for their price is fantastic and they compare very favourably to their more expensive Anschütz cousins I've shot in DURC.

Chiparus

loveta wrote: »

Hi guys have a cz452 american stock .17 bought it new in spring 08 put a quailty scope on it (schmidt&bender 8x56fixed) had a cz.22 before it was reasonably accurate with also have a pcp air rifle and am reasonably accurate with it also but the .17 cant get a handle on it at all, Any tips on what the hell iam doing wrong got to the stage that i am boder line hate n it :0(

I had a similar problem with my anschutz .17 hmr I found it needed to be cleaned pretty regularly (every 20-30 rounds) or it would be all over the place.

tomcat220t

dCorbus wrote: »

I found my own CZ DOES shoot MUCH better with Match Ammunition, as opposed to with my usual non-match fodder, particularly out at 100yards. Have put pretty much most readily available rounds through the CZ452 at this stage and the Match ammo wins hands-down.

Plinking and not-too-bothered at 50m: I use Eley Sport usually. When I'm a bit more serious or in a competition, I use CentreX in the CZ. Trust me, there is a difference!

Probably nothing to with the chamber, just the match ammo is more consistent and manufactured to a higher standard and is better quality-controlled. Hence the price difference!!

Rarely used the CZ for benchrest comps, mainly coz I don't shoot BR, but for Sporter-type competitions, the boxes of CentreX come out of the cupboard.

Hi Corbus, ive own 4 cz .22lr at one time or another and i found in each case they shot eley sport /sk standard/bean tin ammo ... budget match ammo just as good and in most cases better than the top end .. Eley Tenex ,Midas+, X-act ammo. The CZ sporter chamber just cant take advantage of the better match ammo ,imo.
Centre X is very good but that would not be Lapua top match ammo ?
Midas+ or X-act ?
Dont get me wrong CZ make a great .22lr for the money and i would have one in my safe any day . What kind of accuracy are you getting at the sporter-type competitions ?
Regards ,Tomcat .

tomcat220t

clivej wrote: »

I'm in mind to get the chamber on the CZ varmint re-cut to match dimensions. Any idea who can do this for me??

Hi Clive ,
any gunsmith should be able to re-cut your sporter chamber into a good match one :P.
What type of match chamber had you in mind ?
Regards ,Tomcat .

dCorbus

Yep. The bean tin stuff is good in mine too.
As are most of the others. You're correct: CentreX is not Lapuas top 22lr match ammo. But I wouldn't be bothered paying top dollar for Midas etc or Tenex to feed my CZ. As to what kind of accuracy: dunno, i suppose its best described as the sufficient kind!

tomcat220t

dCorbus wrote: »

Yep. The bean tin stuff is good in mine too.
As are most of the others. You're correct: CentreX is not Lapuas top 22lr match ammo. But I wouldn't be bothered paying top dollar for Midas etc or Tenex to feed my CZ. As to what kind of accuracy: dunno, i suppose its best described as the sufficient kind!

Hi Corbus ,reason i asked about accuracy was it dont shoot .22lr in matches . What exactly is sporter type competitions you use your CZ for ?
Regards ,Tomcat.

IRLConor

tomcat220t wrote: »

budget match ammo just as good and in most cases better than the top end .. Eley Tenex ,Midas+, X-act ammo.

I don't think there are many people buying Tenex, Midas+ or X-Act without batch testing first. Even in a good, dedicated target rifle you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference between a random box of Match and a random box of Tenex.

Picking the right ammo for your gun is hard to do without the kind of rig the Intershoot guys built for Lapua to run a testing session and from what I can tell, most people don't shoot enough rounds to tell the difference between two decent selections of ammo.

In most cases, find ammo that appears to be good enough and then stop worrying about it. Odds are that you're introducing more errors than the ammo is.

dCorbus

tomcat220t wrote: »

Hi Corbus ,reason i asked about accuracy was it dont shoot .22lr in matches . What exactly is sporter type competitions you use your CZ for ?
Regards ,Tomcat.

Ah you know the usual 22 sporter competitions held around the place at various ranges at 50 and 100 yards. Off the bipod. Not bench rested. Havent really had the CZ out for many competitions this passed year coz I've been at other stuff. But she's served me well enough in the past.

But IRLConor is correct - I can and do only expect a certain level of accuracy out of the CZ. If I want more accuracy out of a rifle, there's other tools in the workbox for those jobs! ....assuming I do my job, of course!

clivej

tomcat220t wrote: »

Hi Clive ,
any gunsmith should be able to re-cut your sporter chamber into a good match one :P.
What type of match chamber had you in mind ?
Regards ,Tomcat .

No idea I'll have to chat with the gunsmith to out more first.

I'm thinking along the lines of picking one type/make of ammo and making sure the bullet engages the lands/rifling of the barrel.
Is this the correct thinking????

dCorbus

clivej wrote: »

No idea I'll have to chat with the gunsmith to out more first.

I'm thinking along the lines of picking one type/make of ammo and making sure the bullet engages the lands/rifling of the barrel.
Is this the correct thinking????

Feck it Clive, it's Christmas: go the whole hog and get yourself a bleiker! You just know you want to!

clivej

dCorbus wrote: »

Feck it Clive, it's Christmas: go the whole hog and get yourself a bleiker! You just know you want to!

Now you know me by now. I have to start out small and just add to it.

Don't know what a Bleiker is have to look it up now

clivej

Best CZ .22lr forum I've found so far is

http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=18

tomcat220t

clivej wrote: »

No idea I'll have to chat with the gunsmith to out more first.

I'm thinking along the lines of picking one type/make of ammo and making sure the bullet engages the lands/rifling of the barrel.
Is this the correct thinking????

Hi Clive, the idea is to have the lead waxed round leave the barrel in as good condition as possible !
Having a well cut chamber will leave the lead bullet rotating immediately before it even leaves the case .So the first bit of forward movement on the lead round wound be a rotating action .This prevents the lead round from been stripped a little as it(jumps) engages the lands with a sporter chamber .It also insures the lead round is directed straight down the barrel .
Regards ,Tomcat.

zeissman

I see lilja make a drop in replacement barrel for the cz455 and the sako quad.
www.riflebarrels.com
Anyone here ever used one and if so did it improve accuracy ?

dev110

I am just after free floating the barrel and installing the trigger kit. I had to take a nice bit out of the stock to free float the barrel and the Yo Dave kit has made a big improvement. I'll get out tomorrow to make sure the rifle is still zeroed and might try get a few bunnies.

Looking forward to when the range reopens and I will put the Eley Match, RWS, SK Standard Plus and Winchester subs through it.

I say by free floating the barrel the vertical in the first groups should be gone next time round.

I'll keep ye posted.

dev110

Got up to the range today but didn't get to shoot groups as I was late back from the 1000 yard line so I shot 2 BR targets. One with SK and the other with Eley Match.

SK scored a 216 with 4 X's:



Eley match scored a 224 with 3 X's:



I managed a nice group in one of the sighter targets:



These were shot with a mag of 6.5X inline with International sporter rules.

I don't want this to turn to much to the target side but I am hooked on BR now and quickly realised how much the wind actually effects the bullet.

I hope to try the RWS next week and will then decide on what ammo I will feed her.
I am also going to change the shim in the trigger. I used the second biggest as I was afraid in case it slammed fired or went off while hunting but after getting used to the trigger I can still feel the creep.

clivej

Good shootings scores there Dev. You will have to get into the 220's to keep up with the rest. But those scores are medal winning.

A couple of things to try out with your Style are

Remove the front so called 'action' screw & entruction (spelling?) and see if the groups change

Look at my tip in tips section on fixing the entruction to the barrel with a 6mm long 6mm grub screw. As that entruction screw is now in the barrel in a dovetail it allows the barrel to move a little between trigger pull and bullet exit


Use the smallest spring and biggest brass tube that you can in the trigger kit. Then throw it all away and fit a timney replacement trigger.

dev110

I saw your tip in the tips thread and it was the next thing on my list to do.

These were the first two cards that I have shot with the .22 so its a guideline for improvement. I want them scores to be the base line on anything I do from now on.
Also the rifle only has 250 rounds down the barrel so hopefully it will tighten up more with the more rounds I get down it.

From the long range stuff I'm finding it a good tool for watching the flags and now all I have to do is get used to how much I have to hold off for certain pick ups/let offs.
Shooting on 6.5X was weird as usually anything I do in the line of target shooting I usually turn the scope up to max. You are more so trying to quarter the target than anything.

I have a month or two before the first comp (I think) so hopefully will get things sorted out by then.

dev110

I have the trigger lightened and the biggest shim put in. Passes the bump test and a big improvement once again.

Also took out a little extra from the barrel channel as when on a bipod the business card got a little bit tight at the very front of the stock. Now card flies up and down with no resistance.

Jobs still to do:

• Get grub screw to tighten down barrel entruction
• Play with torque settings
• Install striker spring when it arrives

Total cost of improvements to date: €20 + elbow grease

clivej

dev110 wrote: »

I have the trigger lightened and the biggest shim put in. Passes the bump test and a big improvement once again.

Also took out a little extra from the barrel channel as when on a bipod the business card got a little bit tight at the very front of the stock. Now card flies up and down with no resistance.

Jobs still to do:

• Get grub screw to tighten down barrel entruction
• Play with torque settings
• Install striker spring when it arrives

Total cost of improvements to date: €20 + elbow grease

I forgot to add
If when tightening up the front action/entruction screw it pulls up the stock/down the barrel, try placing a small washer between the entruction and the stock to take any free space out of the equation

dev110

Any sign of your .22 yet Clive?

clivej

Not yet

dev110

Playing with torque settings:







I only measured the vertical as that is what I am trying to keep to a minimum. Any windage will be up to me to aim off for.

I set the action screws at 15 In-lbs and fired at two cards:



Managed a 215-1X here. Not great tbh.

For the second card I changed my technique and managed a 229-5X



Total from both cards is 444-6X. This was shot with SK Rifle Standard Plus. I hope to add on a few extra points when I move to Eley Match/RWS R50

clivej

Good shooting there Dev.

Try removing the front entruction screw & entruction and see does that do anything, use just the action screw.
I think the best I got was 226 with the CZ Style.

Remember that in an IS comp. you can only use the scope at 6.5 power it makes it far more difficult to aim.

Next is to try some eley tenex. Allow at least 20 rounds between changing ammo before you see any difference.

dev110

I want to break the 230 mark fairly soon. I was close today and only needed 1 more point

I think I have the rifle set up as much as I can so now its down to my technique. I changed things around today and shot better so want to get up next week to work on more things.

Bring on the comps :cool:

cw67irl

Just to clarify something lads, I was thinking of trying IS Benchrest this year, just for the craic, I know my scope must dial down to 6.5, Is there anything else? Im going to be using a 10/22

clivej

cw67irl wrote: »

Just to clarify something lads, I was thinking of trying IS Benchrest this year, just for the craic, I know my scope must dial down to 6.5, Is there anything else? Im going to be using a 10/22

The total weight of your rifle must NOT be greater than 8.5lb all up. That includes attachments like the bi-pod and scope. Must be able to magazine feed at least 2 rounds.

Full regulations here
http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=sites&srcid=ZGVmYXVsdGRvbWFpbnxuYm5hc3JwY3xneDo5NDU3YTMyOTQxOTNmYTg


IS extraction

International Sporter - is any Sporter having a manually and mechanically operated
firing mechanism, max weight not more than 8.5 pounds (3.855 Kg) inclusive of
scope (and bi-pod if used). Rifle must have a working safety. The action must be a
repeater action and hold minimum of two rounds in a removable clip/magazine
except for tubular fed rifles; the clip/magazine must be capable of feeding two or
more rounds into the chamber and must be installed in the clip/magazine housing
when competing and when rifle is weighed.
Barrel weights, harmonic tuners or bullet stabilisers, barrel attachments (vibration devices) are NOT permitted.
Any scope may be used with max magnification of 6.5X, scopes with more power will have to be
taped in position by a referee for duration of match.
The barrel/ action can be bedded and have the trigger reworked (or replaced). Rifle barrel cannot be fluted.
Barrel must be made out of one piece of metal with no attachments except for the
action and a nut to secure the barrel to the action. Factory stock or stocks that meet
"Stock Clarification‟ rules may be used. Return to battery shall NOT be permitted. No
electronic assisted triggers allowed

dev110

Do you have to feed from a magazine during the competition or can you single feed and leave the mag empty?

clivej

dev110 wrote: »

Do you have to feed from a magazine during the competition or can you single feed and leave the mag empty?

That I don't know but will find out.
And that's why I'm looking for the single shot adapter to use instead of a mag to single feed with. YoDave has them at $22.

It may be a rule that the rifle must have the ability to feed from a mag to be classed as a sporting rifle as against the benchrest rifles that only have the single feed option action.

cw67irl

Thanks clive, So my 10/22 in a Boyds evo stock with a 12inch VQ carbon fibre barrel is ok once I have the scope taped down, Thats great thanks! I have a compensator on the end of the barrel would that matter?

clivej

cw67irl wrote: »

Thanks clive, So my 10/22 in a Boyds evo stock with a 12inch VQ carbon fibre barrel is ok once I have the scope taped down, Thats great thanks! I have a compensator on the end of the barrel would that matter?

I now stand corrected see post below this one


Sorry to disappoint you but no I don't think semi-auto rifles are allowed. As the rules above state 'Return to battery shall NOT be permitted' and that rules out the SA as I see it. Reason is you can't have ejecting empty cases hitting the guy beside you.
But then local club rules may overrule the NASRPC rules and allow them to be used. :)

And I'm not sure if the compensator comes under the 'Barrel weights, harmonic tuners or bullet stabilisers, barrel attachments (vibration devices) are NOT permitted' rule.

I'm not the expert on this maybe it's best to ask one :cool::cool:


And remember your 10/22 will never beat a bolt action rifle in IS competition shooting. Well unless it can consistently do 1/2" groups @50m with ZERO flyers.

Scalachi

CliveJ,

After much discussion last year, it was agreed (with the UK BR) that Semi Autoes were allowed.

Regards

DB

nastros

Wow this thread has some great advice for anyone with a CZ452. I am just about to order the yo dave trigger kit and get a boyds thumbhole stock for my own CZ. I find the current stock a little uncomfortable when shooting on a bench. I tried the Eley Match ammo in the rifle the other day and have to say there was a big difference in the groups. Once I get them installed I might post an update here on the difference its made.

clivej

Scalachi wrote: »

CliveJ,

After much discussion last year, it was agreed (with the UK BR) that Semi Autoes were allowed.

Regards

DB

Cheers for the heads up DB (the man that knows the rules like the back of his hand) ;)