Man gambles post office money

FlawedGenius

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/1218/court-tony-o-reilly.html


He had a 1.7mill loss on his pp account Tony10:eek:
Wonder did he post on here?:)

Paddy Power bringing him on trips as he was such a good customer:pac:

ConorCBS

Also said he has 8.3 million winnings over that time. That's surely wrong?

beaner88

Did he net 8.3 million from 1.7 million of post office money? Probably a loss if he was betting 40K on the Norwegian ladies football team.

FlawedGenius

Hmm think Rte just worded it wrong, the fact that they were giving him free trips to sporting events suggests he was losing his bollox

beaner88

FlawedGenius wrote: »

Hmm think Rte just worded it wrong, the fact that they were giving him free trips to sporting events suggests he was losing his bollox

Ha true enough. I think his account would have been shut before he made a tenth of that.

FlawedGenius

Going to try find posts on Norwegian ladies football:pac:

byronbay2

Despicable behaviour by PP in my opinion. They knew beyond any doubt that the guy had a serious gambling problem that would inevitably lead to personal catastrophe and did nothing to help him. On the contrary, they happily took him for every penny he had and every penny he could defraud his employers of - so much for their obligation to social responsibility and responsible gambling!
Please don't anybody reply with "They're running a business ..." etc. They make plenty of money without having to resort to this kind of behaviour. I'm pretty disgusted with the whole scenario really: a sick man gets sent to jail for 4 years because of his employers lax auditing (would he have got 4 years if he was caught after defrauding €50K) and a grasping bookmaker enabling and turning a blind eye to his addiction. Poor bastard, I hope he's released after 6 months like most of the real criminals in jail!

ConorCBS

byronbay2 wrote: »

Despicable behaviour by PP in my opinion. They knew beyond any doubt that the guy had a serious gambling problem that would inevitably lead to personal catastrophe and did nothing to help him. On the contrary, they happily took him for every penny he had and every penny he could defraud his employers of - so much for their obligation to social responsibility and responsible gambling!
Please don't anybody reply with "They're running a business ..." etc. They make plenty of money without having to resort to this kind of behaviour. I'm pretty disgusted with the whole scenario really: a sick man gets sent to jail for 4 years because of his employers lax auditing (would he have got 4 years if he was caught after defrauding €50K) and a grasping bookmaker enabling and turning a blind eye to his addiction. Poor bastard, I hope he's released after 6 months like most of the real criminals in jail!

You said it yourself... at the end of the day, Paddy Power are a business. If they turned him away, he probably just would have went to Boyle Sports or Ladbrokes, etc. so it would not have solved the problem.

byronbay2

ConorCBS wrote: »

You said it yourself... at the end of the day, Paddy Power are a business. If they turned him away, he probably just would have went to Boyle Sports or Ladbrokes, etc. so it would not have solved the problem.

I don't really want to get into a big debate about this but I must say that PP have a code of conduct that precludes them from taking bets from people they believe might be compulsive gamblers. Also, all their staff are trained to spot the signs that a customer may have a problem and to offer them help and advice. All I can say in this situation is: FAIL!! A Post Office manager with a turnover of €10 million in his PP account?? If there was ever an obvious problem gambler, it was Tony O'Reilly.
Also, the old argument that "everyone else is doing it so we have to too .." is a moral failure that does not justify irresponsible behaviour. Whatever about an ordinary bookie, just scraping by and trying to keep his business afloat (still wouldn't make it alright imo) but PP are making record profits and are rolling in money. They also, famously, trade on their marketing as "The Punter's Pal" - well, they didn't do that punter any favours!!

handlemaster

byronbay2 wrote: »

Despicable behaviour by PP in my opinion. They knew beyond any doubt that the guy had a serious gambling problem that would inevitably lead to personal catastrophe and did nothing to help him. On the contrary, they happily took him for every penny he had and every penny he could defraud his employers of - so much for their obligation to social responsibility and responsible gambling!
Please don't anybody reply with "They're running a business ..." etc. They make plenty of money without having to resort to this kind of behaviour. I'm pretty disgusted with the whole scenario really: a sick man gets sent to jail for 4 years because of his employers lax auditing (would he have got 4 years if he was caught after defrauding €50K) and a grasping bookmaker enabling and turning a blind eye to his addiction. Poor bastard, I hope he's released after 6 months like most of the real criminals in jail!

I would say a sick man got jail because he stole money. Just because the post office didn't discover it quickly doesn't exonerate him in any way. The post office trusted him and his reports on the money he provided.

byronbay2

handlemaster wrote: »

I would say a sick man got jail because he stole money. Just because the post office didn't discover it quickly doesn't exonerate him in any way. The post office trusted him and his reports on the money he provided.

Don't get me wrong: he had to be punished for his crime but 4 years is a ridiculous sentence given the situation. Nobody was hurt, it was a first offence, he didn't enrich himself in any way and was merely feeding an addiction. 12 months would have served the same purpose as 4 years imo.
I also personally believe that PP should return the €1.5 million lost by Mr. O'Reilly to An Post. He was gambling, like all compulsive gamblers, with ZERO chance of winning i.e he would keep gambling until he had nothing left no matter how much he won at any stage along the way. That is why PP are so culpable - they knew the inevitable outcome better than anyone!

jkelly85

byronbay2 wrote: »

Despicable behaviour by PP in my opinion. They knew beyond any doubt that the guy had a serious gambling problem that would inevitably lead to personal catastrophe and did nothing to help him. On the contrary, they happily took him for every penny he had and every penny he could defraud his employers of - so much for their obligation to social responsibility and responsible gambling!
Please don't anybody reply with "They're running a business ..." etc. They make plenty of money without having to resort to this kind of behaviour. I'm pretty disgusted with the whole scenario really: a sick man gets sent to jail for 4 years because of his employers lax auditing (would he have got 4 years if he was caught after defrauding €50K) and a grasping bookmaker enabling and turning a blind eye to his addiction. Poor bastard, I hope he's released after 6 months like most of the real criminals in jail!

Total agree with you 100%

Of course pp knew that he had a very big problem and of course nothing will be said or done to pp

ElChe32

Paddy Power don't give a fiddlers if people have gambling problems at all, I signed up there about 6 months ago with 20 quid (lost it all within 10 minutes) get at least 2 e-mails a day from them with their "free bets" etc. Can only imagine what "big spenders" on their site must be getting

sbsquarepants

byronbay2 wrote: »

. Poor bastard, I hope he's released after 6 months like most of the real criminals in jail!

Ha ha, how much do you need to steal to be classed as a real criminal in your eyes?

Paddy power are a business - not fúcking social workers!

Warper

byronbay2 wrote: »

Don't get me wrong: he had to be punished for his crime but 4 years is a ridiculous sentence given the situation. Nobody was hurt, it was a first offence, he didn't enrich himself in any way and was merely feeding an addiction. 12 months would have served the same purpose as 4 years imo.
I also personally believe that PP should return the €1.5 million lost by Mr. O'Reilly to An Post. He was gambling, like all compulsive gamblers, with ZERO chance of winning i.e he would keep gambling until he had nothing left no matter how much he won at any stage along the way. That is why PP are so culpable - they knew the inevitable outcome better than anyone!

So you are saying that robbing €1.7m should equal a year in prison?? Wtf? If that was the sentence i would take the same and be out after 6 months if caught - yee haw.

clickerquicklic

I agree thats why I hate bookmakers , the more you lose and bet on non value lines they just increase your limits up and up so you can lose more and more , if you win they decrease your limits , they know a problem gambler will just keep betting more and more . They should not have allowed this guy 40000 on some womens soccer match if they are not willing to allow people that know what they are doing bet the same amount . Bookies are all ******* thats why im happy to take tens of thousands of them every year , I like getting stuck in to paddy power when they have a silly offer in shop at cheltenham or when they did refunds if Barcelona won the champions league final against united (actually paid people to go around about 50 shops in dublin for that one ).

RandolphEsq

It is probably 8 million profit and PP weren't happy so launched their own investigation which in turn lead to the criminal proceedings

ConorCBS

RandolphEsq wrote: »

It is probably 8 million profit and PP weren't happy so launched their own investigation which in turn lead to the criminal proceedings

Not a hope Paddy Power let someone take 8 million of them without closing them down...

FlawedGenius

FlawedGenius wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/1218/court-tony-o-reilly.html


He had a 1.7mill loss on his pp account Tony10:eek:
Wonder did he post on here?:)

Paddy Power bringing him on trips as he was such a good customer:pac:

ConorCBS wrote: »

Also said he has 8.3 million winnings over that time. That's surely wrong?

His total stakes amounted cumulatively to €10m, of that €10 million he won back a total of €8.3 million so the total loss was €1.7m



"When the account was examined, it was found that over the period of time it had had a turnover of €10m, with €8.3m in winnings and €1.7m in losses"

More or less what you'd expect to be fair, for example looking at a two option event, (Stoke v L'Pool on Wed next) Both Teams To Score Yes or No, both priced at 5/6 with Paddy Power at the moment, put €60 on both so for an outlay of €120 you get back €110 (PP taking 8.33%)

Post Office man no doubt indulged in the habit of chasing losses and was probably fairly sh1t at gambling too so PP got 17% off his turnover.

Even with a fairly poor staking plan most people would turnover €500 from a betting bank of €100 if they tried to remain somewhat sensible and hit a winner every now and than, so it's quite conceivable the €10m gambling spree was funded almost entirely by the Post Office money imo.

Zuko123

I don't get the sympathy for this guy,he stole 1.7 mill from his employers so he deserved the sentence.The fact that he lost it all gambling just proves he is a total moron.Powers did nothing wrong,he is over 18 so can make his own decisions on how he spends his money.

bucketybuck

Man steals money from his employer = Paddy Powers fault. :rolleyes:

**** that noise.

Austria!

bucketybuck wrote: »

Man steals money from his employer = Paddy Powers fault. :rolleyes:

**** that noise.

No one is saying that him stealing the money PP's fault. They're saying that by allowing that man to gamble the money he was in the manner he was, PP were profiting off this man's obvious addiction. That is PP's fault.

Zuko123

Austria! wrote: »

No one is saying that him stealing the money PP's fault. They're saying that by allowing that man to gamble the money he was in the manner he was, PP were profiting off this man's obvious addiction. That is PP's fault.

Of course they were profiting,they are a bookies,bookies profit when people lose money from gambling.So now a business is wrong to make a profit?

beaner88

Zuko123 wrote: »

Of course they were profiting,they are a bookies,bookies profit when people lose money from gambling.So now a business is wrong to make a profit?

He clearly had a major gambling addiction and they were doing everything in their power to facilitate him.

Zuko123

beaner88 wrote: »

He clearly had a major gambling addiction and they were doing everything in their power to facilitate him.

Of course they did,if you owned a take-away would you bar fat people?

beaner88

Zuko123 wrote: »

Of course they did,if you owned a take-away would you bar fat people?

Your analogy doesn't fit very well. Let me turn it into a comparable destructive addiction. Would you turn away an alcoholic who was destroying themselves in the pub if you were a publican. You would and you'd also be legally obliged to.

Bluetonic

beaner88 wrote: »

Would you turn away an alcoholic who was destroying themselves in the pub if you were a publican. You would and you'd also be legally obliged to.

There is a law which states that a publican must turn away an alcoholic from a licensed premises? Which law is that?

juan.kerr

beaner88 wrote: »

Your analogy doesn't fit very well. Let me turn it into a comparable destructive addiction. Would you turn away an alcoholic who was destroying themselves in the pub if you were a publican. You would and you'd also be legally obliged to.

So a publican has to turn away a sober alcoholic?

clickerquicklic

The problem I have with this is they increased his allowable stake when they saw he was clueless thus allowing him to lose more , if I sign up to powers tomorrow I won't get a max bet of 40k on Norwegian soccer or anything near it . It's bad enough they are allowed to reduce limits for successful punters but I don't think they should be allowing an unsuccessful punter increased limits so he can lose more and more . Bookies are ruthless .

lukas8888

I am amazed how the main stream media plus our politcians have remained largely silent on this issue apart from the sindos declan lynch.I know that Paddy Power is one of irelands most sucessful companies so all the more reason to examine in detail how in gods name they allowed this compulsive gambler bet 10 million.Upon signing up online they were fully aware of his status job likely income etc and as he was gambling such extraordinary amounts allowed him continue is an absolute disgrace,they should be called to answer in front of an oireachtas commitee.I know many small punters who after winning small amounts have been shut down or their stakes wagered reduced to peanuts.I am in full agreement with the sentiments expressed by Lord Byron.This loss will ultimately fall on the taxpayers, the very least i would expect is for PP to repay the 1.5 million to the exchequer.

Zuko123

lukas8888 wrote: »

I am amazed how the main stream media plus our politcians have remained largely silent on this issue apart from the sindos declan lynch.I know that Paddy Power is one of irelands most sucessful companies so all the more reason to examine in detail how in gods name they allowed this compulsive gambler bet 10 million.Upon signing up online they were fully aware of his status job likely income etc and as he was gambling such extraordinary amounts allowed him continue is an absolute disgrace,they should be called to answer in front of an oireachtas commitee.I know many small punters who after winning small amounts have been shut down or their stakes wagered reduced to peanuts.I am in full agreement with the sentiments expressed by Lord Byron.This loss will ultimately fall on the taxpayers, the very least i would expect is for PP to repay the 1.5 million to the exchequer.

Hyperbolic much? Please explain to us how they would know his status,job,likely income upon signing up?