10 yr old Passat – Is it worth keeping it on the road?

Zeek12

Just looking for some opinions or advice here. I drive a 02 Passat, 1.9 Diesel, with about 145k miles on the clock. I’m at the point where I’m wondering if it’s worth keeping it on the road. It may be the time to consider an affordable second hand, in 3-4 yr old bracket, if I could get one.
Although the Passat is really running quite well, maintenance is getting expensive. Last service cost over €500; Filters had to be changed, Cv boot and brake pads replaced too.
Some additional expenses on the horizon aswell:
-Timing belt will prob need replacing soon. I’m guessing that’s at least €500
-Yearly NCTs from March 2013 onwards

And courtesy of the latest budget, it’ll cost about €700 to tax for next year:( The value of the car is probably less than 4 times the tax bill at this stage!

Would be interested to hear opinions from anyone else who has or had an older Passat like mine. Do/did you find maintenance costs getting too expensive, to the point where you needed to sell?

Idbatterim

Op the problem is, unless you are going for something either new or pretty much brand new, there is always likely to be something that needs doing on a car. Are you based in dublin? if so I will give you name of a guy that changed timing belt for my mate for E140. Ring your local motor factors to see how much the belt is.

dgt

Zeek12 wrote: »

Just looking for some opinions or advice here. I drive a 02 Passat, 1.9 Diesel, with about 145k miles on the clock. I’m at the point where I’m wondering if it’s worth keeping it on the road. It may be the time to consider an affordable second hand, in 3-4 yr old bracket, if I could get one.
Although the Passat is really running quite well, maintenance is getting expensive. Last service cost over €500; Filters had to be changed, Cv boot and brake pads replaced too.
Some additional expenses on the horizon aswell:
-Timing belt will prob need replacing soon. I’m guessing that’s at least €500
-Yearly NCTs from March 2013 onwards

And courtesy of the latest budget, it’ll cost about €700 to tax for next year:( The value of the car is probably less than 4 times the tax bill at this stage!

Would be interested to hear opinions from anyone else who has or had an older Passat like mine. Do/did you find maintenance costs getting too expensive, to the point where you needed to sell?

Do it up, keep it

Tax is around €673 from Jan iirc

bazz26

OP, newer cars cost money in maintenance also along with the initial purchase price. If you fancy a change then fair enough but unless the car is ready to die I would keep it.

Mar4ix

ok, ill take it for 500 quid

Manzoor14

I'm nearly in the exact same boat! I have the exact same car and year but with 185k miles on it.

NCT is out on it a month ago, tax due in February, cv boots need replacing and its overdue both a service and timing belt. I've had a few small issues with it in the last six months, mainly my boot doesn't close, back right door doesn't lock, glove compartment door hangs off when I open it and my radio doesn't work anymore. Also had to get alternator and fan belts and pulleys changed a month ago. Could do with a new battery now soon as well.

Looking at €1500+ to get in it taxed, NCT'd and driving as I want it in the next few months so think i'm going to cut my losses and upgrade instead.

Anyone want to buy a 02 Passat, low mileage, drives well, good clean car, priced to sell, pm me! :pac:

Caliden

The running costs of most cars that are 10+ years old will be greater than the actual cost of the car itself. It's already the case with the 01 golf I purchased. Tax + insurance + diesel for a year is more than I bought the car for.

If you're still getting 50+mpg out of a 10 year car then keep it and service it until you run it into the ground.

Zeek12

Idbatterim wrote: »

Op the problem is, unless you are going for something either new or pretty much brand new, there is always likely to be something that needs doing on a car. Are you based in dublin? if so I will give you name of a guy that changed timing belt for my mate for E140. Ring your local motor factors to see how much the belt is.

Yeah fair point I guess. Maybe it's just bad luck with the run of bills right now, but between my service last week, the tax due at end of January, and the timing belt shortly after, I could be forking out over €1500 in just a couple of months. Was just wondering if this actually makes financial sense for a 10 yr old car
I take your point though, maintenance is an ongoing bill for most cars.

I'm not in Dublin sadly, otherwise would gladly get that guys name from you, but thanks v.much for the offer anyway:). I intend to shop around for quotes on that.

Mar4ix

Manzoor14 wrote: »

I'm nearly in the exact same boat! I have the exact same car and year but with 185k miles on it.

NCT is out on it a month ago, tax due in February, cv boots need replacing and its overdue both a service and timing belt. I've had a few small issues with it in the last six months, mainly my boot doesn't close, back right door doesn't lock, glove compartment door hangs off when I open it and my radio doesn't work anymore. Also had to get alternator and fan belts and pulleys changed a month ago. Could do with a new battery now soon as well.

Looking at €1500+ to get in it taxed, NCT'd and driving as I want it in the next few months so think i'm going to cut my losses and upgrade instead.

Anyone want to buy a 02 Passat, low mileage, drives well, good clean car, priced to sell, pm me! :pac:

lol

scrapyard price . ill give 200 for that .

Zeek12

dgt wrote: »

Do it up, keep it

Tax is around €673 from Jan iirc

Could you expand on the "Do it up" suggestion please?
What exactly should I do? Thanks.

Rasmus

Bloody hell I'd love an 02 Passat!

Chimaera

If you own the car already, your only costs are tax, insurance, maintenance and fuel. Chances are all of those will come in a lot cheaper than the cost of getting a new car, which will still have those costs associated with it, though perhaps at a lower level for tax and maintenance (in the short term at least).

The timing belt change interval seems to be either 60000 or 80000 miles depending on where you look for information. The owner's manual should tell you.

At 145k it should have had a belt at 120k or else be due one at 160k. When was the first one done?

On the TDI engines, NEVER leave the belt go past the change interval! The weak point in the TDI timing belt system is the tensioner, and they do have a habit of letting go when they're run past the change interval. If the belt breaks, an older car like this is effectively a write-off as it'll need at least a new head and possibly new engine. Unless you can get the parts cheaply and do the work yourself the cost of the repair will end up being more than the car is worth and it may be time to get something else.

IME the parts for the belt change on a 1.9 (belt, water pump and tensioner kit) should be around €200. After that it's down to how much someone will charge to do it. If they don't have the lockdown tools and diagnostics they can't do the job properly and you should find someone else to do it.

MugMugs

Zeek12 wrote: »

Could you expand on the "Do it up" suggestion please?
What exactly should I do? Thanks.

I believe he meant maintain her and keep her pivoting on the point that she is running without issue.

Idbatterim

in relation to the tax, your probably best of just taxing it by the quarter if money is tight. My mate got another quote of E160 down the country for timing belt replacement. When getting work done, I would advise just getting the parts you need yourself in local motor factor and just getting your mechanic to just fit them, not supply and fit as this will be more expensive...

dgt

Zeek12 wrote: »

Could you expand on the "Do it up" suggestion please?
What exactly should I do? Thanks.

Look after it, give it what it needs. Stuff like suspension bushes, ball joints, top mounts keep on top of them. Basic servicing, have the car running like a clock. Don't be afraid to part money to have it right.

As Mugs has said

amen

Keep it.

I have a 99 1.9 TDi 198,000 miles on the clock. I probably spend €400 a year on bits and pieces for it ( services, brakes etc).

If you compare repayments on a newer car thats only 1-2 months worth.

Although I have to say I am considering a 4 year old Octavia or Superb in the new year.

maidhc

No real way to avoid spending money on cars. An new car will have severe depreciation, while an old one will have somwhat higher maintenance.

I have a 02 Avensis that will cost about €1500 in the next 3 months between a timing belt, shocks and tax. A 2012 one will loose 6k+ at the stoke of midnight on new years, so it is still cheap motoring.

Zeek12

Chimaera wrote: »

If you own the car already, your only costs are tax, insurance, maintenance and fuel. Chances are all of those will come in a lot cheaper than the cost of getting a new car, which will still have those costs associated with it, though perhaps at a lower level for tax and maintenance (in the short term at least).

The timing belt change interval seems to be either 60000 or 80000 miles depending on where you look for information. The owner's manual should tell you.

At 145k it should have had a belt at 120k or else be due one at 160k. When was the first one done?

Yes, those combined costs are certainly less than the price of a newer car. Flip side to that point is a newer car would be an investment and would reduce the yearly tax and (possibly)fuel bills. Some of the bills with a 10yr old seem like "dead money" to me....particularly the tax! It's something to mull over I guess. I have options at least, as the Passat is still basically sound:)

As for the timing belt, a VW garage will tell you it needs changing every 60,000 miles. But other mechanics say you're pretty safe going to 70-75. It was last done around 75k. I won't be taking risks with it tho, and will get it done fairly soon (If I decide to hang on to the car).

Zeek12

Idbatterim wrote: »

in relation to the tax, your probably best of just taxing it by the quarter if money is tight. .

But does'nt that work out about €100 more expensive over the year?

bd2012

My 2 cents.

Have a ten year old a6 TDI. 215000 miles. Paid it off over the summer so it's finally mine. Debated selling it with a fresh Nct last October but considering its not worth all that much and I know it's service history (had it for last five years) I figured that its not worth selling.

I know it's been looked after and there is always a possibility that what u might buy to replace it has not. My advice keep her running. Those cars can take big miles. Best of luck with whatever u decide.

bd2012

bd2012 wrote: »

My 2 cents.

Have a ten year old a6 TDI. 215000 miles. Paid it off over the summer so it's finally mine. Debated selling it with a fresh Nct last October but considering its not worth all that much and I know it's service history (had it for last five years) I figured that its not worth selling.

I know it's been looked after and there is always a possibility that what u might buy to replace it has not. My advice keep her running. Those cars can take big miles. Best of luck with whatever u decide.

P.S. after saying all that what's the betting something breaks down in the morning

pred racer

Zeek12 wrote: »

Yes, those combined costs are certainly less than the price of a newer car. Flip side to that point is a newer car would be an investment and would reduce the yearly tax and (possibly)fuel bills. Some of the bills with a 10yr old seem like "dead money" to me....particularly the tax! It's something to mull over I guess. I have options at least, as the Passat is still basically sound:)

As for the timing belt, a VW garage will tell you it needs changing every 60,000 miles. But other mechanics say you're pretty safe going to 70-75. It was last done around 75k. I won't be taking risks with it tho, and will get it done fairly soon (If I decide to hang on to the car).

I have an 08 alfa 159 1.9jtdm, tax is just gone up €89 to 570 ish
1 service, 2 front brake discs, 1 wheel arch liner, will need a full fluid service soon and a timing belt next year.

Just to show you that unless you go to a nearly new car, the maintenance costs are still there, and I'm still paying for mine:rolleyes:

JJJJNR

I dunno, I plan on keeping mine going for as long as I can, its a 05 SEAT Altea with 160k miles and runs like a swiss watch. I've a bit put away now for some suspension bits and anything else that goes wrong with it, and I'm planning on getting it detailed and lowered early next year, wheels are already done. I know if I wanted the same power/economy (2.0TDI 140) I'd have to spend about 10 - 12k for something under the new tax, and then have the additional concern of something going bang anyway.

Better the devil you know than the devil you don't.!

nogoodnamesleft

No matter what car you have its going to cost money to maintain even a new one. I have a 03 with 113k on the clock and service it myself all in it costs about 80euro in parts for oil filter, long life oil, diesel filter, air filter and pollen filter. Skimping on maintenance is a false economy. That particular model of passat is light years area for reliability compared to the B6 model.

If it was me I would keep it! They can go for treble that mileage.

norrie rugger

pred racer wrote: »

I have an 08 alfa 159 1.9jtdm, tax is just gone up €89 to 570 ish
1 service, 2 front brake discs, 1 wheel arch liner, will need a full fluid service soon and a timing belt next year.

Just to show you that unless you go to a nearly new car, the maintenance costs are still there, and I'm still paying for mine:rolleyes:

In all fairness though, you have an Alfa. That level of repair would be expected no?

MugMugs

norrie rugger wrote: »

In all fairness though, you have an Alpha. That level of repair would be expected no?

37 Minutes for the Alfa gag.....

norrie rugger

MugMugs wrote: »

37 Minutes for the Alfa gag.....

Come on, that was just begging for it
You ever type something out and know that there is a mistake somewhere but read it and it looks ok? AS I was typing Alpha I knew that there was something wrong but my brain would not correct it

pred racer

MugMugs wrote: »

37 Minutes for the Alfa gag.....

Motors is slowing up!

Just waiting for the 'yore ma' now:pac:

MugMugs

norrie rugger wrote: »

Come on, that was just begging for it

I'll confess, it took a fair bit of self restraint myself

pred racer

MugMugs wrote: »

I'll confess, it took a fair bit of self restraint myself

So what you are saying after my well intentioned and hopefully helpful post,

Is


Keep the passat op, it could be worse, you could have an alfa.

Thanks guys:D:pac:

Zeek12

Thanks for all the input and advice folks.

Will mull it over the next few weeks, but leaning towards keeping the old Passat for another while.

neddynasty

In a similar situation as the OP. 03 Audi A4 1.9 TDI with 140k on the clock. 4 tyres, NCT, timing belt & €760 in tax coming up for 2013 at a minimum. Loan due to be finished in 10 months approx. Toying with the idea of changing and just extending loan. I guess the hope being the timing belt & tyres won't need changin with a newer car and the loan repayments just keep going as I'm used to. Also there'll probably be cheaper tax. That's the positive side. The negative is it might be a bit short term thinking. The car is running great and in 10 months the laon will be gone so can save that out going for changing in 2014/15. It's a difficult choice. No real solutions or advice for the OP, I'm just talking out loud.

wonski

neddynasty wrote: »

In a similar situation as the OP. 03 Audi A4 1.9 TDI with 140k on the clock. 4 tyres, NCT, timing belt & €760 in tax coming up for 2013 at a minimum. Loan due to be finished in 10 months approx. Toying with the idea of changing and just extending loan. I guess the hope being the timing belt & tyres won't need changin with a newer car and the loan repayments just keep going as I'm used to. Also there'll probably be cheaper tax. That's the positive side. The negative is it might be a bit short term thinking. The car is running great and in 10 months the laon will be gone so can save that out going for changing in 2014/15. It's a difficult choice. No real solutions or advice for the OP, I'm just talking out loud.

And it wouldn't be easy to sell car with nct, tires and timing belt due...
If the car is reliable it is worth to keep it, unless you want to change because you want a different car.
Have the same problem, would like to drive something nicer but can't justify selling it on when i know the car in and out and it never let me down. Decided to stick to it until problems occur.
Having 13 years old french car that did not fail even once in over 2 years i consider meself lucky. But i made promise to replace it with something nice when time comes.

Quin_Dub

dgt wrote: »

Do it up, keep it

Tax is around €673 from Jan iirc

Unfortunately for a 1.9 it's €710 for full year or €200 a quarter if you pay that way.

I have to say - that surcharge for not paying in full really annoys me - I appreciate that there is extra overhead in producing the extra physical disks etc , but €90!!!

We can pay the TV licence by direct debit..why not car Tax??

It would be much easier for most people to cover €50-€60 a month instead of finding either €710 in one go or even €200 every 3 months....

Chimaera

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Unfortunately for a 1.9 it's €710 for full year or €200 a quarter if you pay that way.

I have to say - that surcharge for not paying in full really annoys me - I appreciate that there is extra overhead in producing the extra physical disks etc , but €90!!!

We can pay the TV licence by direct debit..why not car Tax??

It would be much easier for most people to cover €50-€60 a month instead of finding either €710 in one go or even €200 every 3 months....

No, the 1.9 TDI is 1896 cc which puts it in the 1801-1900 band: annual rate for this band is €673; half-yearly is €373; quarterly is €190. The surcharges for the half-yearly and quarterly payment are a percentage of the yearly payment. The half-yearly surcharge amounts to 10 % of the annual fee; quarterly is 13 %.

Full details are on http://www.environ.ie/en/LocalGovernment/MotorTax/MotorTaxRates/MotorTaxRatesBasedonEngineSize/

Quin_Dub

Chimaera wrote: »

No, the 1.9 TDI is 1896 cc which puts it in the 1801-1900 band: annual rate for this band is €673; half-yearly is €373; quarterly is €190. The surcharges for the half-yearly and quarterly payment are a percentage of the yearly payment. The half-yearly surcharge amounts to 10 % of the annual fee; quarterly is 13 %.

Full details are on http://www.environ.ie/en/LocalGovernment/MotorTax/MotorTaxRates/MotorTaxRatesBasedonEngineSize/

Ah... OK , my Saab 9-5 is a 1.9 , but it's 1905 so I pay the €710

Still think 10% or 13% is an excessive surcharge..would also love to see the introduction of monthly payment terms..

Idbatterim

I guess the hope being the timing belt & tyres won't need changin with a newer car and the loan repayments just keep going as I'm used to. Also there'll probably be cheaper tax. That's the positive side. The negative is it might be a bit short term thinking. The car is running great and in 10 months the laon will be gone so can save that out going for changing in 2014/15. It's a difficult choice. No real solutions or advice for the OP, I'm just talking out loud.

At leat you know what needs doing with yours, better the devil you know, were talking about used cars here...

YbFocus

Jesus lads this is depressing, I have a 98 passat and I would never think of getting rid of it (student, in college etc).

Got her ready for the test myself done all the arms, rear axle bushings, two rear shocks, an oil change and had the timing belt done for €140 once I got the belt. About €300 all in done everything except the belt myself.

They're not expensive cars to work with, like my car is worth €800 euro i suppose with test and 180 miles on it.

But regardless of the worth of the car, all cars need maintenance. Whether you spend an extra €10,000 to get a newer car and then pay maintenance anyway makes no difference. I'd stick with her, I'd bet shes served you well

fat and slow

imagine your car is a 02 deisel avensis/ passat /whatever with 160,000 miles on the clock, it's very reliable, costs 710 to tax. fuel effeciency; 7l/100km you do 20,000km per year.

question is it worth changing? (knowing that your car is reliable and assuming the newer cars you might buy are also reliable) here's the maths;

if you change your car to a 09 car tax band A, you will save 500 euro per year on tax and 600 euro on fuel effeciency; Cars effeciency would improve to 5l/100km saving 2l/100km*20000km*1.5euro per litre.
so changing cars would save you 1,100 per year.

Cost of a 09 car is 5,000 for a small car eg. 1L petrol ford ka, If you keep the new car for 5years then you will save 5,500. this cost saving would easily pay for the full cost of the purchase of a small car (ford ka). savings - cost of buying =500 euro.

There is also the resale value of your current car -1000 now and resale value of ford ka in 5 years time. 5000*(80%*80%*80%*80%*80) assuming the ford ka depreciates by 20% per year this will give a resale value of 1600. if you kept my car for 5 years it would only be worth scrap value 300. so there also a further saving from selling your car now and ford ka in 5years, over selling your car in 5years time. (1600 -300) therefore total savings for this car is 1800

finally if you buy a better car now eg 09 ford focus 1.6l deisel costing 8500. you still save 5,500 on fuel and tax over the 5 years. but the cost of deprecication is higher = 8500 *(.8*.8*.8*.8*.8) resale value is a 2800 euro. sale value of your own car now as before is 1000, and in 5 years it's 300euro. thus savings for changing are (5500 +2800+1000) =9,300 - cost of changing 8,800 (8500+300) so total savings - cost of changing = 500

is it worth paying an extra 1,300euro for having a 5dr 1.6L deisel ford focus for 5years over a 3dr ford ka 1L petrol for 5years? cost per year for having a better bigger car is (1300/5) =260 euro per year or 75 cents per day. i would say yup.

finally, lets say your skint and you decide to sell your car now and borrow the remainder 7,500 for the focus or 4,000 for the ford ka. Cost of borrowing with a credit union car loan is 6.5% apr.would be 1300, or 700 for the ka. so now your worse off by 800 switching to a ford focus. but better off by 1,100 switching to a ford ka. so your now in the situation of; is it worth paying 43 cents per day to have a newer ford focus?, or is better to receive 60 cents for switching from your nice car to a small ford ka?

Idbatterim

but generally someone driving a diesel now, will be using it because they are doing the mileage to justify one. Also the older diesels are still a class or two up from the Ka and while not exactly quick, would be compared to the likes of a Ka... also you would have to factor in interest to upgrade, unless you have the lump sum...

keithclancy

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Unfortunately for a 1.9 it's €710 for full year or €200 a quarter if you pay that way.

I have to say - that surcharge for not paying in full really annoys me - I appreciate that there is extra overhead in producing the extra physical disks etc , but €90!!!

We can pay the TV licence by direct debit..why not car Tax??

It would be much easier for most people to cover €50-€60 a month instead of finding either €710 in one go or even €200 every 3 months....

12.67% is a pretty good rate.

Sure the Government has to borrow it anyway.

If you wanted to spread the payments over the year a loan with Danske bank is currently 11.47% on 1000 euros ... you'd be slightly better off and be able to spread your Motor Tax payment :P