Registering a company for commercial motor tax

mawk

Has anyone ever tried starting a company solely for the purposes of getting commercial tax?

say I want to drive a big jeep or crewcab and would rather not pay 1000 euro plus on private tax; is it cheaper to register a company name and set up as a sole trader?

Bpmull

mawk wrote: »

Has anyone ever tried starting a company solely for the purposes of getting commercial tax?

say I want to drive a big jeep or crewcab and would rather not pay 1000 euro plus on private tax; is it cheaper to register a company name and set up as a sole trader?

Just a couple of things you are going to set up as a sole trader and register for vat. That's grand but in order to do this you need to turnover 32,000 euro a year otherwise you cant register for vat. A vat number is required to tax commerical vehicles commercially. As a sole trader not only would you have to turnover 32,000 euros you would also have to get an accountant to do up vat returns at least once a year as you are registered for vat. You are going to do all this to save a few hundredh euros on tax talking about spending a pound to save a Penney. But to answer your question unless you have a reason to open a business you would be as well just to pay the tax privately. Hope this clears it up for you.

mickdw

mawk wrote: »

Has anyone ever tried starting a company solely for the purposes of getting commercial tax?

say I want to drive a big jeep or crewcab and would rather not pay 1000 euro plus on private tax; is it cheaper to register a company name and set up as a sole trader?

You don't have to have a company to be a sole trader.
Half the country are still driving commercials while having no business reason for having one.
The original rules Gormley mentioned 're registering commercials were n
Unclear. He said people with tax clearance. This has no bearing on whether you should have the use of a commercial vehicle. He also mentioned vat registered persons. Again nonsense as a small business can legitimately operate without being vat registered and surely that small business is allowed the use of a commercial van.

I think alot of people are just sticking pps number on the form and also farmers are just recording their herd number on it.

Bpmull

mickdw wrote: »

You don't have to have a company to be a sole trader.
Half the country are still driving commercials while having no business reason for having one.
The original rules Gormley mentioned 're registering commercials were nonsense. He said people with tax clearance. This has no bearing on whether you should have the use of a commercial vehicle. He also mentioned vat registered persons. Again nonsense as a small business can legitimately operate without being vat registered.

I think alot of people are just sticking pps number on the form and also farmers are just recording their herd number on it.

I don't think you will get away with taxing commerical vehicles commercially and using them privately for much longer. I know in Kilkenny from experience you have to have a vat number or heard number or at least a proper business. But some tax offices are not as strict as others. The whole system is becoming a lot strictly I know there is lads still getting away with it most don't even have businesses but for how much longer ? Obviously the above is completely illegal but that doesn't seem to stop people.

Theanswers

Bpmull wrote: »

I don't think you will get away with taxing commerical vehicles commercially and using them privately for much longer. I know in Kilkenny from experience you have to have a vat number or heard number or at least a proper business. But some tax offices are not as strict as others. The whole system is becoming a lot strictly I know there is lads still getting away with it most don't even have businesses but for how much longer ? Obviously the above is completely illegal but that doesn't seem to stop people.

People are doing it because the alternative is not feasible to most. 1700 euro increase in tax over night for majority of 4x4s if taxed privately.


I they can't tax comm, they just will not tax it.

Wils110

if you have a commercial vehicle and aren't a sole trader or vat registered when taxing the vehicle you have to go to the gaurds and get a form stamped to say the van will only be used for work

what could they say about all the tradesmen who worked for companies was a stupid law/rule to bring in and wouldn't imagine the gaurds take it to serious

Bpmull

Theanswers wrote: »

People are doing it because the alternative is not feasible to most. 1700 euro increase in tax over night for majority of 4x4s if taxed privately.


I they can't tax comm, they just will not tax it.

I suppose taxing it commercially is better than not taxing it at all. It still doesn't make it legal.tbh I didn't realise that tax would 1700 euro I suppose for the bigger jeeps it is a lot of money for tax.

westies4ever

Husband is a paye worker, a letter from his company stating he needs the van for his job - carrying tools and materials - was sufficient to get commercial tax.

911s

Bpmull wrote: »

Just a couple of things you are going to set up as a sole trader and register for vat. That's grand but in order to do this you need to turnover 32,000 euro a year otherwise you cant register for vat. A vat number is required to tax commerical vehicles commercially. As a sole trader not only would you have to turnover 32,000 euros you would also have to get an accountant to do up vat returns at least once a year as you are registered for vat. You are going to do all this to save a few hundredh euros on tax talking about spending a pound to save a Penney. But to answer your question unless you have a reason to open a business you would be as well just to pay the tax privately. Hope this clears it up for you.

This has got to be the most useless misinformed information posted on this subject. You should get your facts right or don't say anything.

Sleepy

If you can't afford to run it legally, sell it and buy something that you can afford to run or get used to relying on public transport.

osheen

westies4ever wrote: »

Husband is a paye worker, a letter from his company stating he needs the van for his job - carrying tools and materials - was sufficient to get commercial tax.

Thats how it works in our place as well
just means cant have the kids in the van

foxinsox

So, does this mean that anyone can buy a commercial vehicle, say they need it for work and save a fortune on tax?

Bpmull

911s wrote: »

This has got to be the most useless misinformed information posted on this subject. You should get your facts right or don't say anything.

How exactly is it misinformed I may be slightly out on the figure of 32k otherwise my post is correct the op asked would it be worth while opening a business I answered his question what exactly is your problem ?
Edit I just checked the thredhold for vat registration it's 37500. Other than this my post is correct. Please don't call my post useless if you not even going to say what is wrong with it.

aujopimur

You only need your PPS no. and a declaration for comm. tax

westies4ever

foxinsox wrote: »

So, does this mean that anyone can buy a commercial vehicle, say they need it for work and save a fortune on tax?

Letter had to be on headed company paper and signed by a manager. Letter had to have the company's vat reg, state husbands job title and employee number and state clearly why he needed it for work and that he only used it for work.

Theanswers

Bpmull wrote: »

I suppose taxing it commercially is better than not taxing it at all. It still doesn't make it legal.tbh I didn't realise that tax would 1700 euro I suppose for the bigger jeeps it is a lot of money for tax.

Sorry my mistake.

Tax rate for the likes of a Landcrusier would be 1809 euro.
1809-310= 1490 of an increase.

flutered

aujopimur wrote: »

You only need your PPS no. and a declaration for comm. tax

that is not good enough for limk co.co. they demand a tax clearence cert from the revenue comissionners office in monaghan, well that is what they told me, it was taxed commercially when i bought it, it was then taxed private, the doe had to be replaced with an nct, this was then backdated.

westies4ever

aujopimur wrote: »

You only need your PPS no. and a declaration for comm. tax

Not enough in Laois either

911s

Bpmull wrote: »

How exactly is it misinformed I may be slightly out on the figure of 32k otherwise my post is correct the op asked would it be worth while opening a business I answered his question what exactly is your problem ?

An indivuidal or company can register for VAT with any turnover, no matter how small, but it may not be financially sound to do so. They are obliged to register once turnover passes approx 32k. You do not need an accountant to
do VAT returns, as it is a simple addition & subtraction procedure and can be
done on line.
A sole trader does not have to be registered for VAT to register a commercial
vehicle for their business.

testicle

flutered wrote: »

that is not good enough for limk co.co. they demand a tax clearence cert from the revenue comissionners office in monaghan, well that is what they told me, it was taxed commercially when i bought it, it was then taxed private, the doe had to be replaced with an nct, this was then backdated.

Monaghan? Revenue Commissioners are in Limerick!

Theanswers

Sleepy wrote: »

If you can't afford to run it legally, sell it and buy something that you can afford to run or get used to relying on public transport.

Sleepy:
Few problems with your post.
1/ Many people bought commercial cars/ 4x4s when you could tax them for 256 because they were a van.
They then started demanding tax certs blah blah blah which meant a huge increase for plenty of people.
This moving of the goals posts is unfair. The private rate is vastly over priced. Look at all the Commercial 4x4s they are all tax the comm rate. I also imagine they are used to go to the shops, into town etc.
The declaration means nothing, it is an unenforceable law.

If I could not pay Commercial tax I would not be paying private that is for certain, nor would the vast majority.
We have no backseats therefore in my eyes and the eyes of many commercial tax is all that should be paid.

Ps; there is no public transport in Ireland

Also 4x4s are needed for country lifestyle and I can guarantee you now we in the country will NOT pay Private tax rates.

End of there is no point in trying. Also you will meet very few guards who would actually do someone for Misuse of Commercial tax.

Bpmull

911s wrote: »

An indivuidal or company can register for VAT with any turnover, no matter how small, but it may not be financially sound to do so. They are obliged to register once turnover passes approx 32k. You do not need an accountant to
do VAT returns, as it is a simple addition & subtraction procedure and can be
done on line.
A sole trader does not have to be registered for VAT to register a commercial
vehicle for their business.

Thanks for informing me of my mistakes however in kilkenny co. Council you need a vat number or heard number that's going by experience that's why I mentioned it I know this is not the case everywhere. According to revenue there Is a restriction on the threshold for vat registration but you could be right. I don't know why you mention company in your first sentence as a sole trader is not a company it's a business. A company is often short for limited liability company which Is of no real relevance here.As for the accountant I was going on the op having no experience of accounts and I could be right or wrong on that but I just added it in just in case.

Sleepy

Theanswers wrote: »

Sleepy:
Few problems with your post.
1/ Many people bought commercial cars/ 4x4s when you could tax them for 256 because they were a van.
They then started demanding tax certs blah blah blah which meant a huge increase for plenty of people.
This moving of the goals posts is unfair. The private rate is vastly over priced. Look at all the Commercial 4x4s they are all tax the comm rate. I also imagine they are used to go to the shops, into town etc.
The declaration means nothing, it is an unenforceable law.

If I could not pay Commercial tax I would not be paying private that is for certain, nor would the vast majority.
We have no backseats therefore in my eyes and the eyes of many commercial tax is all that should be paid.

Ps; there is no public transport in Ireland

Also 4x4s are needed for country lifestyle and I can guarantee you now we in the country will NOT pay Private tax rates.

End of there is no point in trying. Also you will meet very few guards who would actually do someone for Misuse of Commercial tax.

Tough **** tbh. Commercial tax rates are for vehicles which are exclusively used for the purposes of commercial activities. A lack of back seats is a complete nonsense of an argument, using that logic a Ferrari 599 GTO would only require commercial tax to be paid.

There is plenty of public transport in Ireland. Granted it's irregular in rural Ireland but that's the price one pays for a rural lifestyle (tbh, if one was paying the true price of that lifestyle, public transport would be non-existent or tickets would be exorbitant).

A 4x4 is not necessary for a country lifestyle unless it's being used as a farming tool (in which case it would legitimately qualify for commercial tax).

If guards aren't prosecuting law-breakers, they're failing to perform their duty and should be sacked.

Disagree with the law all you like, hell, stand for election on the premise that rural dwellers should be further subsidised by those living in more urban areas if you like. Fact is, the law of the land is the law of the land. You've no right to break it and are rightly subject to the full force of the law if you're breaking it.

If you can't afford the lifestyle you want, work harder and earn it. Don't expect the rest of us to pay your way.

Theanswers

Sleepy wrote: »

Tough **** tbh. Commercial tax rates are for vehicles which are exclusively used for the purposes of commercial activities. A lack of back seats is a complete nonsense of an argument, using that logic a Ferrari 599 GTO would only require commercial tax to be paid.

There is plenty of public transport in Ireland. Granted it's irregular in rural Ireland but that's the price one pays for a rural lifestyle (tbh, if one was paying the true price of that lifestyle, public transport would be non-existent or tickets would be exorbitant).

A 4x4 is not necessary for a country lifestyle unless it's being used as a farming tool (in which case it would legitimately qualify for commercial tax).

If guards aren't prosecuting law-breakers, they're failing to perform their duty and should be sacked.

Disagree with the law all you like, hell, stand for election on the premise that rural dwellers should be further subsidised by those living in more urban areas if you like. Fact is, the law of the land is the law of the land. You've no right to break it and are rightly subject to the full force of the law if you're breaking it.

If you can't afford the lifestyle you want, work harder and earn it. Don't expect the rest of us to pay your way.

I really dont care what you think TBH. You have your opinion and I have the opinion of the majority. I know the way it's going to be in rural Ireland. No one will pay the private tax. The guards understand that the price is too expensive, they will want to be very sour to do someone going to the shops etc. Drive around on a Sunday the majority of vans/ 4x4s are not working.
Just tipping about.

As for public transport in the country there is none. I will continue to drive my 4x4 on commercial rates.

I believe areas of high public transport should pay higher motor tax rates whereas areas of low public transport should pay lower because it's more of a need vs luxury.

You have a choice we don't.

I will await the full force of the law. I imagine I will be waiting a long time.
The higher the motor tax rates go up, the tighter the rules on comm gets the less money that will come in. This commercial rates thing is an attack on rural Ireland.

As i said before I await the full force of the law.
I'm not worried.

Theanswers

Sleepy wrote: »

Disagree with the law all you like, hell, stand for election on the premise that rural dwellers should be further subsidised by those living in more urban areas if you like. Fact is, the law of the land is the law of the land. You've no right to break it and are rightly subject to the full force of the law if you're breaking it.

I wonder where your food comes from?

flutered

testicle wrote: »

Monaghan? Revenue Commissioners are in Limerick!

could it be that they have some particular office there, i am only quoteing the official behind the counter, as an aide, if one rings the co.co. with regards the condition of the roads, first question i am asked, which creamery collects the milk on the road, 2nd question have you paid the house hold charge.

mickdw

Are they still going on about tax clearance?
Any individual who is tax compliant will be granted a clearance cert. They could be a teacher or a nurse or even a TD! Are they all suitable candidates for commercials?
If they said tax clearance together with evidence of work requiring a commercial Vehicle, I would understand that but for now, its a load of crap. I don't know anyone who failed to get a commercial taxed or indeed anyone who even considered this when going out buying a commercial regardless of work status.
Imo, unemployed should not be allowed commercial tax. Allowing them is facilitating the black economy. Every cowboy wouldn't have a transit if he had to pay private rates on it.
Also, if you do qualify, it is utter nonsense to think that anyone would have any problem with someone taking the van to the shop. Even gormley, as silly as he was, clearly said that was not the intent of the law.

Sleepy

Theanswers wrote: »

I really dont care what you think TBH. You have your opinion and I have the opinion of the majority.

Maybe the majority of tax dodgers and rural dwellers but if you'd like to check the census data, you're a minority, not a majority.

I know the way it's going to be in rural Ireland. No one will pay the private tax. The guards understand that the price is too expensive, they will want to be very sour to do someone going to the shops etc. Drive around on a Sunday the majority of vans/ 4x4s are not working.
Just tipping about.

Care to name the Gardai failing to do their duty so we can report them to the ombudsman?

As for public transport in the country there is none. I will continue to drive my 4x4 on commercial rates.

I believe areas of high public transport should pay higher motor tax rates whereas areas of low public transport should pay lower because it's more of a need vs luxury.

You have a choice we don't.

I will await the full force of the law. I imagine I will be waiting a long time.
The higher the motor tax rates go up, the tighter the rules on comm gets the less money that will come in. This commercial rates thing is an attack on rural Ireland.

You choose to live in a rural setting so in addition to enjoying the benefits of that (cheap housing, low property taxes, clean air, space, low price of a pint etc.) you have to live with the costs of that (less services). As it stands you're heavily subsidised by those living in urban Ireland. Without us, you wouldn't have half the services you do have:

As i said before I await the full force of the law.
I'm not worried.

Want to post a shot of your reg and I'll contact the guards to apply the full force of the law to you?

Theanswers wrote: »

I wonder where your food comes from?

See above. Rural dwellers are more than compensated for doing their job, even when they're fully tax compliant they get to be subsidised by the rest of society. So forgive me if it pisses me off that you think you're above paying your motor tax when more of my taxes are spent providing you with services than they are on educating my kids.

flutered

a major service station in tipp town has closed 4 yes four units for filling up with road desiel, i thought that i would throw this fact into the mix.

Our man in Havana

flutered wrote: »

a major service station in tipp town has closed 4 yes four units for filling up with road desiel, i thought that i would throw this fact into the mix.

Say what? Want to try that again?

navara man

you would be a fool to buy commercial 4by4 or any big van just to save a few bob on tax .i have a navara i would not have it if did not need to pull a trailer for work .it is robbery me with price of diesel now. 25 mile to gallon less with a trailer

goz83

Bpmull wrote: »

How exactly is it misinformed I may be slightly out on the figure of 32k otherwise my post is correct the op asked would it be worth while opening a business I answered his question what exactly is your problem ?
Edit I just checked the thredhold for vat registration it's 37500. Other than this my post is correct. Please don't call my post useless if you not even going to say what is wrong with it.

Actually, your post is not correct mate. The €37,500 figure for a sole trader, company, or otherwise is the figure when one is required to register for VAT. One can register for VAT even if there is no trading going on. One is also required to register for VAT if the limit is expected to be broken within the tax year. I registered a company for VAT even though I knew it would not hit 10k in year 1, let alone 37.5k. Also, VAT returns need to be done bi-monthly (there may be other intervals), but an accountant is not required to do a return, bi-monthly, or annually for that matter. An individual can do it (I do my own), but it's alot of work tbh and not worth the savings. Tax returns are done annually and again, can be done by the individual if they want the hassle.

My company also had a commercially taxed van, BEFORE we were VAT registered.

flutered

Our man in Havana wrote: »

Say what? Want to try that again?

what is the idea of the big black type, my eye sight is fine with reading glasses.
if yours is not please get them checked you are blinding me.
i admit most of the time i am not able to describe things clearly so here is another try four filling units for desiel have been disabled by the management, rather crudely i admit, they have tied the nozzels to the pumps with baler twine.

navara man

flutered wrote: »

four filling units for desiel have been disabled by the management, rather crudely i admit, they have tied the nozzels to the pumps with baler twine.

why

mlumley

Bpmull wrote: »

How exactly is it misinformed I may be slightly out on the figure of 32k otherwise my post is correct the op asked would it be worth while opening a business I answered his question what exactly is your problem ?
Edit I just checked the thredhold for vat registration it's 37500. Other than this my post is correct. Please don't call my post useless if you not even going to say what is wrong with it.

I started working for myself a couple of years back. I registered for VAT befor trading, the figure of €37500 you quote, is when you HAVE to reg for VAT. You can reg for it under that ammout.

As for having to get an accountant to do your books, again wrong, I did my own and have not had any problems.

So, your post, if not useless, is wrong. Sorry.

Our man in Havana

You can voluntarily register for VAT at anytime even if you are below the thresholds for compulsory registration.
There is no need to be paying accountants if you can do it all yourself.

flutered

.

navara man wrote: »

why

i must assuming loss of buisness.

navara man

flutered wrote: »

.

i must assuming loss of buisness.

the loss of what buisness

PhotogTom

Let's cut to the chase here. Can anyone provide a link to a news paper story that reports on someone getting caught, fined, ticketed or whatever for the "private" use of a commercial? Anyone know what the penalty is?

My point is that after the tax collector/Garda stage has been gotten past, I haven't heard of any issues.

Grass between the tracks

I am not aware of any prosecutions.

slavetothegrind

never had an issue, regularly use the van outside of work stopping into a friend on way home, even on sundays.

that is in the course of 20 odd years driving commercials.

I am a sole trader and the tools of my trade are in said van

( except at night if you are an evil thieving tosser reading this )

goz83

So, to put this bed, its not neessary to be a sole trader, company, or otherwise to commercially tax a vehicle, but the vehicle should only then be used for commercial purposes. Driving a commercially taxed vehicle for anything other than commercial reasons is prohibited, even though its largely ignored.

dgt

The only time I got asked about what was my purpose of business was in a.... Privately taxed car-van :rolleyes:

Years of commercials (not from myself personally) and no problems at checkpoints. We use big panel vans, maybe that's why

yadayadaya

Any help here would be appreciated. I am a farmers son trying to get my new van commercially taxed. It has been off the road for two years(previous owner). I was in the garda station filling out the forms and he tells me I need a income tax registration number. I dont have one as I only work on the farm. I there any way to get it commercially taxed as I only use it for transporting general bags,feed for farm.

yadayadaya

If I so called sell the car to my father and have the car in his name. And let him tax the car commercially for the farm. Could I swing it?

goz83

Afaik, he just wants your pps number. It's used for income tax and vat purposes. Technically, it could go in your dads name and get taxed but that would be more hassle IMO.

seamus

Yep, your income tax registration number is just your PPSN.

Revenue will likely start clamping down a lot more on this with motor tax rates increasing. If you're commercially taxing a vehicle registered in your own name and you're not registered for income tax, they can easily cross-reference that to see what you're actually at.

yadayadaya

yes thats exactly why I dont want to give my pps number I will have to pay crazy tax for a car rarely used. Will be any hassle or trouble in transferring the car to my fathers name. Nothing illegal in what i'm doing?

Grass between the tracks

Pay what you owe. We have heard all the excuses and none of them work.

yadayadaya

I'm being perfectly honest here I can't afford it.

westies4ever

Grass between the tracks wrote: »

Pay what you owe. We have heard all the excuses and none of them work.

hows the view up there from your very high horse?