Mass Shooting avoided in Oklahama school

PizzamanIRL

Hours after the bloodshed at a Connecticut school, police stopped what would have been a second mass school-shooting on Friday, arresting an Oklahoma teenager plotting to kill dozens of his classmates.

Hours after the bloodshed at a Connecticut school, police stopped what would have been a second mass school-shooting on Friday, arresting an Oklahoma teenager plotting to kill dozens of his classmates.
Sammie Eaglebear Chavez, 18, told friends at Bartlesville High School that he wanted to lure their schoolmates and teachers to the gym and then open fire, according to officials.
He also claimed to have explosives he planned to detonate once police arrived.
A classmate overhead Chavez scheming on Thursday and cops arrested him early Friday before he could carry out his plan. A judge in the small city of Bartlesville, which lies about an hour north of Tulsa, ordered that Chavez be held on $1 million bail.
Investigators believe Chavez owned a Colt .45 handgun and had been researching how to obtain explosives and higher-powered firearms. He also frequently discussed the 1999 shootings at Columbine High school.
The motive for the plot was not immediately known. Investigators do not suspect the scheme was linked to or inspired by the shooting in Newtown, Conn., that left 20 children dead


Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/oklahoma-student-plotting-mass-shooting-police-article-1.1221032#ixzz2F9Pae1x6

I don't know what's wrong with some people. What are they gonna do now when they release him, hope he doesn't actually do it?

Wacker The Attacker

PizzamanIRL wrote: »

Hours after the bloodshed at a Connecticut school, police stopped what would have been a second mass school-shooting on Friday, arresting an Oklahoma teenager plotting to kill dozens of his classmates.

I don't know what's wrong with some people. What are they gonna do now when they release him, hope he doesn't actually do it?

Therein lies at least part of the problem. Nobody knows what goes on in other peoples heads

1ZRed

Some people are fucking disturbed! Makes me wonder if these mass shootings/killings and plots are giving more and more people ideas.

And for an 18 year old to have a weapon? Seriously the laws there have to change regardless of their constitution or "freedoms" relating guns. I'd call it ridiculous but it's just actually plain out fucking dangerous and high time it changed judging from what's going on over the last few years, and even the last few months!

Anita Blow

I think the problem was summed up very well by another person on here a while back after the Colorado shootings, and it relates to mental health and the availability of guns. When a person in the US has a mental breakdown or goes psycho, they have easy access to weaponry and so the chances are much higher that they'll go on a shooting spree, whereas here if a person has a similar breakdown they will either attack someone, but not kill, or they will drink and or do something else which doesn't result in others losing their own life.
While neither is ideal, they latter is far better than the former.

It is beyond past the point of people arguing that gun-ownership for all is acceptable, because it isn't. America is on it's 3rd such mass murder in the past 6/7 months. How many comparable murders have occurred anywhere else or across all of the EU?

Wacker The Attacker

1ZRed wrote: »

Some people are fucking disturbed! Makes me wonder if these mass shootings/killings and plots are giving more and more people ideas.

And for an 18 year old to have a weapon? Seriously the laws there have to change regardless of their constitution or "freedoms" relating guns. I'd call it ridiculous but it's just actually plain out fucking dangerous and high time it changed judging from what's going on over the last few years, and even the last few months!

It cant and wont

Hurricane Carter

Wacker The Attacker

Anita Blow wrote: »

I think the problem was summed up very well by another person on here a while back after the Colorado shootings, and it relates to mental health and the availability of guns. When a person in the US has a mental breakdown or goes psycho, they have easy access to weaponry and so the chances are much higher that they'll go on a shooting spree, whereas here if a person has a similar breakdown they will either attack someone, but not kill, or they will drink and or do something else which doesn't result in others losing their own life.
While neither is ideal, they latter is far better than the former.

It is beyond past the point of people arguing that gun-ownership for all is acceptable, because it isn't. America is on it's 3rd such mass murder in the past 6/7 months. How many comparable murders have occurred anywhere else or across all of the EU?[/QUOTE]


Check out mexico

http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/international/countriesandterritories/mexico/drug_trafficking/index.html

joydivision

Anita Blow wrote: »

I think the problem was summed up very well by another person on here a while back after the Colorado shootings, and it relates to mental health and the availability of guns. When a person in the US has a mental breakdown or goes psycho, they have easy access to weaponry and so the chances are much higher that they'll go on a shooting spree, whereas here if a person has a similar breakdown they will either attack someone, but not kill, or they will drink and or do something else which doesn't result in others losing their own life.
While neither is ideal, they latter is far better than the former.

It is beyond past the point of people arguing that gun-ownership for all is acceptable, because it isn't. America is on it's 3rd such mass murder in the past 6/7 months. How many comparable murders have occurred anywhere else or across all of the EU?

But in parts of europe guns are totally legal . I dont remember a school ever getting shot in czech republic .
All you need to own a concealed weapon there is be 18 .

Mars Bar

Wacker The Attacker wrote: »

It cant and wont

Exactly. I was talking to American friends of mine on Facebook and they said each state has a government and laws of their own. One state can outlaw guns but the next state will have them available.

The NRA know how to get into the politicians pockets to ensure that the second amendment stays as it is.

I started "We Need To Talk About Kevin" earlier in the week and finished it last night. Couldn't stop thinking of those kids in Connecticut when I was reading it.

Anita Blow

Wacker The Attacker wrote: »

Check out mexico

http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/international/countriesandterritories/mexico/drug_trafficking/index.html

Mexico is not a country any civilised, developed country should want to be compared against in terms of homicide rates.

Wacker The Attacker

joydivision wrote: »

But in parts of europe guns are totally legal . I dont remember a school ever getting shot in czech republic .
All you need to own a concealed weapon there is be 18 .

So if guns can be legal in one nation and can be carried without any mass shootings of this nature, what is it about the u.s that sets them apart?

Wacker The Attacker

Anita Blow wrote: »

Mexico is not a country any civilised, developed country should want to be compared against in terms of homicide rates.

If you dont compare them to Mexico, who do you compare them to and why?

Witcher

Wacker The Attacker wrote: »

So if guns can be legal in one nation and can be carried without any mass shootings of this nature, what is it about the u.s that sets them apart?

This post from the Atheism and Agnosticism forum sums it up well I think;

nagirrac wrote: »

America is awash with guns, so of course easy access to them is an issue and needs to be better regulated. Ironic that his mother felt the need to have 3 or more high power guns in the house, for protection I assume (in one of the the safest suburbs of a relatively crime free state), and had her face blown off by her son.

Outside of the gun issue, the larger issue here is mental health and how it is treated. I live in surburban America and the number of kids here who are "troubled" and on meds is frightening. There is a pattern that has emerged for the past 20 years, kid has a problem, parents are clueless (or divorced, another factor in why the kid is fcuked up) and take him to the psychiaterist where he gets loaded up with anti-depressants. In truth parents just want their kids to be "normal" and like everyone else, another part of the problem. This is a massive "experiment" as nobody knows what the long term impact is on the developing brains of teenagers after years of drug use. Ritalin and anti-depressants are handed out like candy here. A lot of the same kids self medicate with illegal drugs so they are on a cocktail of legal and illegal substances. I have seen some of the results of these experiments and they are like walking zombies, but never mind the shrink got his $150 per visit and the drug companies get to sell bucketloads of their "legal" medicine. All to make the kid "better".

There is no doubt anti-depressants help a lot of people but I genuinely worry about what they are doing to the developing brains of teenagers. There is a culture in American society that pills take care of everything, that thinking may be coming back to bite us in the ass.

donvito99

Sammy Eaglebear Chavez?

'Murica fooked up in so many ways

amen

Mexico (and its only parts of it) it is a totally different situation. Basically inn Mexico over the last few years several major drug smugglers were removed with the net result that smaller gangs have gained prominence and are now fighting each other to control territory. To a certain extent is like a mini multi nation war.

The problem in America is too many guns with too few checks/constraints.

I realise that their constitution allows the right to bear arms but it also mentions controlled militias.

Mars Bar

Wacker The Attacker wrote: »

So if guns can be legal in one nation and can be carried without any mass shootings of this nature, what is it about the u.s that sets them apart?

I can only think that the sheer volume of people is why. (Along with lack of mental health support and very lax gun control...)

A population of 311 million people is bound to see some nutters.

Wacker The Attacker

Mars Bar wrote: »

Exactly. I was talking to American friends of mine on Facebook and they said each state has a government and laws of their own. One state can outlaw guns but the next state will have them available.

The NRA know how to get into the politicians pockets to ensure that the second amendment stays as it is.

I started "We Need To Talk About Kevin" earlier in the week and finished it last night. Couldn't stop thinking of those kids in Connecticut when I was reading it.

Thats their job. If anti guns lobbyists want to have their way this is something they need to overturn. Otherwise any debate concerning the tightening of gun control in the U.S is a dead end.

Witcher

amen wrote: »

I realise that their constitution allows the right to bear arms but it also mentions controlled militias.

Militia as defined by United States law;

10 USC § 311;

(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.

Wacker The Attacker

Mars Bar wrote: »

I can only think that the sheer volume of people is why. (Along with lack of mental health support and very lax gun control...)

A population of 311 million people is bound to see some nutters.

Would it be reasonable to suggest that prioritising the first part will see an eventual decline in gun related incidents of this kind

Mars Bar

Isn't the reason their allowed their guns according to the 2nd amendment is a fear of "invasion"? All I can picture is an alien invasion!

3ndahalfof6

Between now and the 21st of this month a lot of wacko's might end up coming out of the woodwork.

Mars Bar

Wacker The Attacker wrote: »

Would it be reasonable to suggest that prioritising the first part will see an eventual decline in gun related incidents of this kind

I'd like to believe so. I don't think I'll ever really find out though.

fryup

1ZRed wrote: »

Some people are fucking disturbed! Makes me wonder if these mass shootings/killings and plots are giving more and more people ideas.

And for an 18 year old to have a weapon? Seriously the laws there have to change regardless of their constitution or "freedoms" relating guns. I'd call it ridiculous but it's just actually plain out fucking dangerous and high time it changed judging from what's going on over the last few years, and even the last few months!

buying a handgun in some parts of the states is as easy as buying a bar of chocolate............its completely nuts

wonder will Obama have the backbone to change the law, seeing that he's just started his second term he might as well

Sunnyisland

If switzerland can have gun control what is it with the USA,there are deeper and much more issues here than just gun control.

Gun politics in Switzerland are unique in Europe. Switzerland does not have a standing army, instead opting for a peoples' militia for its national defence. The vast majority of men between the ages of 20 and 30 are conscripted into the militia and undergo military training, including weapons training. The personal weapons of the militia are kept at home as part of the military obligations; Switzerland thus has one of the highest militia gun ownership rates in the world.

Wacker The Attacker

Blay wrote: »

This post from the Atheism and Agnosticism forum sums it up well I think;

Isnt a far more practical solution to this problem to prioritize the treatment of people with mental health problems. Simply removing guns just transfers the real problem somewhere else.

Biggins

*sigh*

Thankfully no one killed (well except the shooter).

http://www.thejournal.ie/shooting-alabama-hospital-717817-Dec2012/

AUTHORITIES IN ALABAMA say a man opened fire in a hospital, wounding an officer and two employees before he was fatally shot by police.

Wacker The Attacker

fryup wrote: »

buying a handgun in some parts of the states is as easy as buying a bar of chocolate............its completely nuts

wonder will Obama have the backbone to change the law, seeing that he's just started his second term he might as well

If this is the road they choose to go down then it is going to take more than 4 years

Witcher

Someone must have bought him the pistol as a gift because you have to be 21 to purchase one yourself in the US. You would think the people close to him would recognise he had issues.

Wacker The Attacker

Mars Bar wrote: »

Isn't the reason their allowed their guns according to the 2nd amendment is a fear of "invasion"? All I can picture is an alien invasion!

The threat of actual invasion at the time the second amendment was ratified was a very real concern.

It's easy to see where they were coming from.

Biggins

Blay wrote: »

Someone must have bought him the pistol as a gift because you have to be 21 to purchase one yourself in the US. You would think the people close to him would recognise he had issues.

Acquiring from dealers

Provided that federal law and the laws of both the dealer's and purchaser's states and localities are complied with:

An individual 21 years of age or older may acquire a handgun from a dealer federally licensed to sell firearms in the individual's state of residence.[7]

An individual 18 years of age or older may purchase a rifle or shotgun from a federally licensed dealer in any state. However, the applicant may not purchase a pistol gripped long gun that does not have a shoulder stock until he or she is 21 years of age.

It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer to sell, deliver, or transfer a firearm unless the federal firearms licensee receives notice of approval from a prescribed source approving the transfer.

Sale of a firearm by a federally licensed dealer must be documented by a federal form 4473, which identifies and includes other information about the purchaser, and records the make, model, and serial number of the firearm.

Sales to an individual of multiple handguns within a five-day period require dealer notification to the ATF. Violations of dealer record keeping requirements are punishable by a penalty of up to 764.7€ and one year's imprisonment.

An individual holding a Curio and Relics License (officially a Type 03 Federal Firearms License (FFL); also called a C&R) may directly purchase firearms that are 50 or more years old from anyone AND any firearm officially recognized by the ATF as a Curio and Relic (C&R).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_law_in_the_United_States#Acquiring_from_dealers

Sales between individuals

For transactions that don't involve federal firearms licensees, such as private transactions, federal law is less strict when it comes to minimum age.

In a private transaction, federal law prohibits the transfer or the sale of a handgun or ammunition, for use only in handguns, to individuals under 18 years of age. Although, there are certain exceptions in federal law, that if met, would allow an individual to transfer a handgun or ammunition, for use only in handguns, to someone under 18 years of age.

There is no federal law concerning minimum age for the transfer or sale of a firearm that is not defined as a handgun, such as rifles, semiautomatic rifles, short-barreled rifles, shotguns, short-barreled shotgun, machineguns, etc., for transactions that don't involve federal firearms licensees

woodoo

He failed at his heinous plan but he will go to jail for a long long time. So a happy ending for once.

Mars Bar

Wacker The Attacker wrote: »

The threat of actual invasion at the time the second amendment was ratified was a very real concern.

It's easy to see where they were coming from.

Yes, it was quite good thinking for the time. It needs to be looked at and adapted for modern society.

tolosenc

PizzamanIRL wrote: »

I don't know what's wrong with some people. What are they gonna do now when they release him, hope he doesn't actually do it?

I think when the various news outlets are done blaming video games/communists/conservatives/gun laws/immigrants etc, they need to look at themselves. People on this side of the pond are very quick to jump on Fox, but all the stations in the US are as bad as each other.

They all have their own catch phrases and jingles for this shooting now, and all they have is wall to wall coverage of every movement in and around the school.

All this does is put the idea in an already disturbed mind that shooting up dozens of defenseless people will make you famous.

Yes there is a gun problem in the US, but laws aren't going to change that, it's a cultural mentality that will take decades to change, it it is possible at all. What needs to be looked at is why these sick people do what they do, and not how they get the guns.

Killer Wench

donvito99 wrote: »

Sammy Eaglebear Chavez?

'Murica fooked up in so many ways

Excuse me, but the kid is Native American. Bartlesville, OK is near the Osage, Cherokee, and Delaware Tribal Nations.

Don't insult what you don't understand.

donvito99

Killer Wench wrote: »

Excuse me, but the kid is Native American. Bartlesville, OK is near the Osage, Cherokee, and Delaware Tribal Nations.

Don't insult what you don't understand.

This is After Hours. Don't insult when you don't understand etc