Is the Luas Red Line safe at night?

another question

That might be a daft question but I have had a few people express concern that I will be getting the luas on my own on Sunday night. I don't live in Dublin, I plan to go from Connolly to the last stop in Saggart and now I feel a bit apprehensive.

I've heard about junkies and drunks etc is this all abit over the top sure hundreds travel on the luas at night don't they on their own? I'm female, mid twenties by the way.

SERGEANT.

You'll be fine.

Judgement Day

If you read some of the threads on here, it's debatable whether or not the Red line is safe during the day let alone at night.

Mycroft H

Nobody to travel with ?

another question

Judgement Day wrote: »

If you read some of the threads on here, it's debatable whether or not the Red line is safe during the day let alone at night.

I don't think I want to Nearly everyone that's mentioned it says they would prefer if I paid €20 for a cab. Thats a big difference to €2.40 in fairness...

another question

BX 19 wrote: »

Nobody to travel with ?

Nope! Long story but No!

mikemac1

Sad state of affairs that this question needs to be asked

Mycroft H

I'd pay the cab too. I've put up the scumbags during the day but I wouldn't chance going on my own in the evening and I'm not a small bloke.

another question

BX 19 wrote: »

I'd pay the cab too. I've put up the scumbags during the day but I wouldn't chance going on my own in the evening and I'm not a small bloke.

Oh god, now that has really filled me with confidence. Out of interest, is the green line any better at night, I also have the option of getting off near milltown if I go on the green line...or are they much of a muchness?

Mycroft H

My girlfriend at the time lived out by Belgard, I used to put with hassle at night if I was going out to see her. She wouldn't travel on her own outside of peak hours. I ended up cycling most of the time on the evening.

The green line in my experience is much quieter.

KwackerJack

I use to work on the LUAS as Security....Red is OK at night!

That's going around in 4's wearing stab vest's!

It's hit and miss to be honest.....you may be fine or you may meet a drug user in a bad mood or a group of the usual scum looking for a fight!

All drivers and the control centre have coms with security so they are aware of any situation but due to cutbacks there are less patrols so response time's are longer!

If anything does happen....you feared for your life so you acted in self defence

As for the green its safe but god are the posh heads so annoying when drunk...oh my daddy this and my daddy that :rolleyes:

Having a posh daddy does not allow you do drink and swing out of the bars :rolleyes: Nor does it stop you from being ejected from said tram

KCAccidental

green line would be safer, but I think you'd be fine on the red line as well. There are a lot of horror stories, but they seem to be all during the day. Just be extra vigilant, especially when getting off the tram and walking home. As most people are

Rodin

I'd go as far as Heuston

AngryLips

Anyone too afraid to travel on the red line must live a pretty insulated life :rolleyes:

another question

AngryLips wrote: »

Anyone too afraid to travel on the red line must live a pretty insulated life :rolleyes:

Don't assume anything about my life. Thank you.

Mycroft H

KwackerJack wrote: »

I use to work on the LUAS as Security....Red is OK at night!

That's going around in 4's wearing stab vest's!

It's hit and miss to be honest.....you may be fine or you may meet a drug user in a bad mood or a group of the usual scum looking for a fight!

Musn't have picked the right nights on it to be honest

KwackerJack

BX 19 wrote: »

Musn't have picked the right nights on it to be honest

To hard to know...Some weekends are quiet and passengers are 'normal' while a Tuesday or Wednesday could be chaos :eek:

foggy_lad

Was on a tram out to Heuston earlier at about 6pm and there was a pair of yokes on it off their faces on their prescription meds and cans. He lay down on the floor to sleep and she was apologising to everyone for him making a show of her and was kicking him to try to wake him. He had several nasty looking scars on the face and head and looked very rough. I felt like just getting off the tram but stayed put and everything was ok but it could very easily have turned nasty because that is what these people are like, unpredictable!

Andy-Pandy

If you're nervous sit directly behind the driver.

KD345

The red line can be a dodgy, although everyone will have a different view as to what is bearable or intimidating. A lot of red line trams tend to have some anti social behaviour. This can be drunks or junkies, to groups of youths causing trouble.

If you're looking for a cheap alternative, the 69 bus passes the Luas terminus at Saggart. It leaves hourly from Hawkins Street and also picks up on Aston Quay.

AlekSmart

AngryLips wrote: »

Anyone too afraid to travel on the red line must live a pretty insulated life :rolleyes:

Thats one way of looking at it,sure nuff.

However,it appears that Veolia has belatedly been forced to admit the existence of a problem.

Whilst it's lacking in any real new initiatives this is at least a nod in the right direction....

http://www.luas.ie/tram-watch.html

It's somewhat incredible that Tram Watch seeks to make what should be standard operating procedure into some form of New Forward Thinking Initiative.

The REAL question should be why and how the Red Line and particularly the Red Line Extension was allowed to deterioriate to a situation which required "Initiatives" such as TramWatch.

Sadly,the effectivity of TramWatch will stand or fall on the resources deployed,and this particular line does not fill me with confidence...

Garda support when available

That said,it's obvious now that Veolia/RPA have finally recognised that their business model is being significantly compromised by the antics of a small number of violent,ill disposed individuals and their pack mates.....it remains to be seen if TramWatch can actually redress the balance.

Rodin

AlekSmart wrote: »

Thats one way of looking at it,sure nuff.

However,it appears that Veolia has belatedly been forced to admit the existence of a problem.

Whilst it's lacking in any real new initiatives this is at least a nod in the right direction....

http://www.luas.ie/tram-watch.html

It's somewhat incredible that Tram Watch seeks to make what should be standard operating procedure into some form of New Forward Thinking Initiative.

The REAL question should be why and how the Red Line and particularly the Red Line Extension was allowed to deterioriate to a situation which required "Initiatives" such as TramWatch.

Sadly,the effectivity of TramWatch will stand or fall on the resources deployed,and this particular line does not fill me with confidence...



That said,it's obvious now that Veolia/RPA have finally recognised that their business model is being significantly compromised by the antics of a small number of violent,ill disposed individuals and their pack mates.....it remains to be seen if TramWatch can actually redress the balance.

They need transport police. With powers of arrest on every tram. Would clean it right up

KwackerJack

STT have complete control over who stays and who goes on the tram......Being a private company they class the tram as 'Private Property' to a certain extent.

This allows the STT Agents to remove anyone who breaks the rules...from eating to being a complete scumbag!! That included the platforms!

If you break any rules your ticket is no longer valid.. that is printed on all LUAS tickets!

1 warning will be given then the person/s can be removed and escorted off the platform!

Rodin

KwackerJack wrote: »

STT have complete control over who stays and who goes on the tram......Being a private company they class the tram as 'Private Property' to a certain extent.

This allows the STT Agents to remove anyone who breaks the rules...from eating to being a complete scumbag!! That included the platforms!

If you break any rules your ticket is no longer valid.. that is printed on all LUAS tickets!

1 warning will be given then the person/s can be removed and escorted off the platform!

A police officer is a more visible deterrent IMO.
Prevention is better than cure

AlekSmart

KwackerJack wrote: »

STT have complete control over who stays and who goes on the tram......Being a private company they class the tram as 'Private Property' to a certain extent.

This allows the STT Agents to remove anyone who breaks the rules...from eating to being a complete scumbag!! That included the platforms!

If you break any rules your ticket is no longer valid.. that is printed on all LUAS tickets!

1 warning will be given then the person/s can be removed and escorted off the platform!

All quite true Kwacker,but sadly,as stated by many posters here in relation to Luas Fare Dodging issues,there is a perception that the STT staff cannot do diddley squat if you choose to simply walk away.

KwackerJack

Rodin wrote: »

A police officer is a more visible deterrent IMO.
Prevention is better than cure

Rodin : Not really..! the Gardai are not respected by the vast majority of truouble makes becasue the law is on their side.


Ive seen some Gardai (not all) stand and argue with offenders which is silly! Grab them and move them on, its all they understand unfortunately!

STT are told to remove any offender immediately and keep the service going at all times they don't take **** for a reason and it may seem intimidating but its all or nothing with these people!

KwackerJack

AlekSmart wrote: »

All quite true Kwacker,but sadly,as stated by many posters here in relation to Luas Fare Dodging issues,there is a perception that the STT staff cannot do diddley squat if you choose to simply walk away.

All STT teams have HD Camera's as have all trams...if a fare dodger walks of his/her photo is uploaded to a data base and that offender will be refused entry if spotted!

The tickets checker's have powers along with STT to hold fare evaders but not many people known this!

Many have complained to Gardai only to be told that they are authorised to hold any fare evader or anti social offender!

Below quoted from the Railway Procurement Agency

Both Veolia and Rail Procurement Agency (on Luas) Iarnród Éireann (all mainline rail services) staff have the right in law to challenge you for your ticket, it is an offense not to comply with the request. You must also give your name and address if requested.

Failure to give your name and/or address, or the giving of a false name and/or address is in itself an offense. Bear in mind there is extensive CCTV in place. If the official is of the opinion that you are providing false information the official can legally arrest you under the Rail Safety Act and detain you until the Gardai take you into custody. The official may proceed directly to court proceedings without issuing a penalty fare.

Note you are under no obligation in law to given information such as a phone number or details of a third party to verify your identity to the official.

KittenKev

Excuse my ignorance,but where does the red line go to?

KwackerJack

KittenKev wrote: »

Excuse my ignorance,but where does the red line go to?

From Docklands / Connolly Station to Saggart and Tallaght

AlekSmart

In the context of this thread it's perhaps worth contrasting the Christmas Late Night Luas Services on the Green Line....

http://www.luas.ie/night-luas-schedule-2012.html

...with those on the Red Line....

Ermmmm....Nothing...even on New Years Eve.....

This appears to indicate either that the Red Line is in a far more precarious situation financially than is being admitted to,OR,that the risk of incidents is significantly higher should these services be provided.

It is,to me,a cop-out and not addressed at all,by Veolia or for that matter the NTA,who supposedly are in overall control of "Public" Transport provision.

KittenKev

Someone should write a strongly worded letter to someone..

Todd Gack

another question wrote: »

Oh god, now that has really filled me with confidence. Out of interest, is the green line any better at night, I also have the option of getting off near milltown if I go on the green line...or are they much of a muchness?

Green line is absolutely fine, day and night, travel on it late at night since it started, it's usually pretty quiet on a sunday evening but may be busier coming up to christmas, leaving town is quieter than heading in. Only been on the red a handful of times but if you sit away from the most open part of the carriage where the drop down seats are you'd be better off.

KwackerJack

AlekSmart wrote: »

In the context of this thread it's perhaps worth contrasting the Christmas Late Night Luas Services on the Green Line....

http://www.luas.ie/night-luas-schedule-2012.html

...with those on the Red Line....

Ermmmm....Nothing...even on New Years Eve.....

This appears to indicate either that the Red Line is in a far more precarious situation financially than is being admitted to,OR,that the risk of incidents is significantly higher should these services be provided.

It is,to me,a cop-out and not addressed at all,by Veolia or for that matter the NTA,who supposedly are in overall control of "Public" Transport provision.

Redline on the nights in question will be a complete no go.....happens on some match days also as a tram once needed a Garda escort back to town!! For all involved the risk is to high

AlekSmart

Todd Gack wrote: »

Green line is absolutely fine, day and night, travel on it late at night since it started, it's usually pretty quiet on a sunday evening but may be busier coming up to christmas, leaving town is quieter than heading in. Only been on the red a handful of times but if you sit away from the most open part of the carriage where the drop down seats are you'd be better off.

That quite neatly sums up the difference in the two lines.

Essentially one can board a Green Line Tram without having to think forensically ahead.

Any use of a Red Line Tram requires a bit of forward planning,such as where is the most agreeable location to sit.

I would agree that sitting at the extremities is a more sensible option,as the "Usual Suspects" tend to gather around the double-door section as it allows them more scope to leg-it should the need arise....

Tom_Cruise

Bring some sort of weapon with you, nothing like a knife or pistol though, something like a screw driver or one of those extendable batons.

AlekSmart

KwackerJack wrote: »

Redline on the nights in question will be a complete no go.....happens on some match days also as a tram once needed a Garda escort back to town!! For all involved the risk is to high

Sad state of affairs,but one which has been all too apparent for so long now.

I continue to see this as a significant failure of both the NTA/RPA and Veolia,that this fine system has been essentially taken over by low-life anti-social savages,who now dictate it's conditions of travel.

Dublin Bus has paid a significant price for it's long running denial of the same problems on it's services to Tallaght,which makes it all the more depressing to see the Red Line facing the exact same fate as the original Tallaght Bus Services.....cuts,cuts and more cuts.

opinion guy

AngryLips wrote: »

Anyone too afraid to travel on the red line must live a pretty insulated life :rolleyes:

You think ?
From places I've been the Red line Luas is waaaaayyyyy dodgier than London Tube or New York Subway, U-Bahn's in several German cities or even the Budapest underground - at least in terms of the areas I went to in those places. The only place I found a similar sense of menace was the Paris metro honestly - and I didn't go anywhere particular dodgy in that (unless the slow train to Charles De Gaul counts - that was still less menacing than Red Line luas)

(By the way - is it just me or is Belgard the most dodgy stop ? Whats that all about ?)

LoonyLovegood

I've taken it at night and had no problems - there were 'dodgy' looking people on it, but it all depends on where you sit. I sat in the same general area as the driver, before the first bendy part. Just look like you know where you're doing and keep valuables away and it's grand.

GRMA

Hope I don't come across sexist but seen as you are a young woman alone I'd suggest getting the taxi.


I don't let my girlfriend or sister go on it alone at night

Better safe than sorry

dfx-

Andy-Pandy wrote: »

If you're nervous sit directly behind the driver.

Not always a help. I saw a young lad beaten and kicked right behind the driver on one of the rare journeys I take on the Red Line. I'd only get it if it was before the bus service started (5am) or after the bus service has finished (12am services). The dodgy part of the line is from Blackhorse to Four Courts.

Having said that, you have to be unlucky to have no option than the Luas. There's a bus that serves almost every area on the Luas tracks (except maybe some of the extensions). Be it the quiet docile 69, or the very quiet 56A, 14, 44, 61, 17, 18, 7, 84/A, 145, 123, 40, 13, 68, 122, 83/A and all the routes that follow along the quays to Heuston.

Chucky the tree

GRMA wrote: »

Hope I don't come across sexist but seen as you are a young woman alone I'd suggest getting the taxi.


I don't let my girlfriend or sister go on it alone at night

Better safe than sorry

I think being a women she'd be far safer on it than a guy.

another question

opinion guy wrote: »

You think ?
From places I've been the Red line Luas is waaaaayyyyy dodgier than London Tube or New York Subway, U-Bahn's in several German cities or even the Budapest underground - at least in terms of the areas I went to in those places. The only place I found a similar sense of menace was the Paris metro honestly - and I didn't go anywhere particular dodgy in that (unless the slow train to Charles De Gaul counts - that was still less menacing than Red Line luas)

(By the way - is it just me or is Belgard the most dodgy stop ? Whats that all about ?)

Exactly, thank you. And Belgard is what I am most worried about as I'll be travelling off peak I think it's stops there and I have to wait to get the next one on to the last stop at Saggart. I think if I knew it was going to be a straight run so to speak I would take my chances although from what I have read here that still wouldn't be a good idea.

With reference to the comment about sitting location I presuming the extremeties means with the very front or very back? and do these still have passengers on them because I don't really want to be sitting on my own for 50mins either.

Judgement Day

another question wrote: »

Exactly, thank you. And Belgard is what I am most worried about as I'll be travelling off peak I think it's stops there and I have to wait to get the next one on to the last stop at Saggart. I think if I knew it was going to be a straight run so to speak I would take my chances although from what I have read here that still wouldn't be a good idea.

With reference to the comment about sitting location I presuming the extremeties means with the very front or very back? and do these still have passengers on them because I don't really want to be sitting on my own for 50mins either.

Taxi, taxi, taxi.......:)

LXFlyer

Just take the 69 bus - no problems on that at all.

Timetable here:
http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/Your-Journey1/Timetables/All-Timetables/69/

bridgepeople

I'm a guy. Use the red line regularly including sometimes at night. Never had any problems or felt unsafe.

That's not to say you don't regularly see drunks and druggies as well as local kids causing a nuisance. Someone mentioned witnessing someone being attacked just behind the driver. I've never seen anything like that. I'd say it's pretty rare

Sitting downstairs on the 69 bus might be a better alternative for you if you want to be confident you won't witness anti-social behaviour, but from my experience you're unlikely to encounter any problems on the luas.

For those recommending a taxi, I'm sure there are plenty of people here who will warn off a young woman using a taxi alone at night as you never know if you'll get a 'dodgy' driver! Moral of the story is there is no totally risk free way of getting about except maybe if someone you know drives into town and gives you a lift.

another question

lxflyer wrote: »

Just take the 69 bus - no problems on that at all.

Timetable here:
http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/Your-Journey1/Timetables/All-Timetables/69/

I've had a look at this thank you for the link. Could you advise me where to get on and where to get off? I may aswell be from space, I haven't much sense of direction.

A stop to get on near jervis street?
And a stop to get off near where the luas line finishes because that's the only place I know how to get to where I'm going. My destination is about another 3-4 minute walk after the last luas stop.

Losty Dublin

another question wrote: »

I've had a look at this thank you for the link. Could you advise me where to get on and where to get off? I may aswell be from space, I haven't much sense of direction.

A stop to get on near jervis street?
And a stop to get off near where the luas line finishes because that's the only place I know how to get to where I'm going. My destination is about another 3-4 minute walk after the last luas stop.

You can get off at the terminus at Hawkins Street and hit the quays from there to the O2; it's about a 20 minute walk down and it's straight as well.

If you are getting last Luas home after a concert don't forget that are plenty of concert goers heading home as well so you should be fine

Anita Blow

I get the Red line every day, 5 days a week both day and night and not once have I felt unsafe. Sure there's plenty of knackers but they've never infringed on myself or any of the other passengers while I was there. Granted I haven't experienced it out at Tallaght or Belgard, but I've never had a problem between Connolly and James'

spagboll

People in Dublin can be a little paranoid about this kind of thing, that's not to say the red line isn't dangerous at day or night time - I've only been on it a handful of times

My only experience on it was at the Smithfield stop, a group of young kids got on and started messing at the top of the tram, all the other people at the top, including fully grown men, got up and moved to the back of the tram. The kids were at the oldest 12 or 13.

If you've been nervous on public transport before, you'll probably be nervous on the red line

LXFlyer

another question wrote: »

I've had a look at this thank you for the link. Could you advise me where to get on and where to get off? I may aswell be from space, I haven't much sense of direction.

A stop to get on near jervis street?
And a stop to get off near where the luas line finishes because that's the only place I know how to get to where I'm going. My destination is about another 3-4 minute walk after the last luas stop.

The 69 stops on Aston Quay, outside SuperValu (the second stop coming from O'Connell Bridge). It will be there about 1 minute after leaving Hawkins Street terminus which is beside D'Olier Street.

There is a bus stop adjacent to the Saggart LUAS stop. Just ask the driver to tell you when you are there.

The bus will take about 40 minutes for the trip.

Fare is €2.80 cash and €2.45 using a LEAP card.

bridgepeople

spagboll wrote: »

People in Dublin can be a little paranoid about this kind of thing, that's not to say the red line isn't dangerous at day or night time - I've only been on it a handful of times

My only experience on it was at the Smithfield stop, a group of young kids got on and started messing at the top of the tram, all the other people at the top, including fully grown men, got up and moved to the back of the tram. The kids were at the oldest 12 or 13.

If you've been nervous on public transport before, you'll probably be nervous on the red line

Yeah weirdly it's 8-12 year old children who cause the most problems on the Luas. You won't ever feel unsafe from them but they can be really annoying.

It's a bit sad too of course because looking at them you know their future is not going to be easy. It's a long way from the children who live along on the green line being driven from rugby/ballet to their next piano lesson!