Serious Petition Advice?

tacofries

Hello,

REVISED THREAD DUE TO UNPOPULAR PLAN

In light of another suicide, I think its time for me to at least try to do my bit to help prevent more tragic losses.


What do you boardies think would be the best way to move forward with getting a serious petition,or other activity, going that can be put forward to the government to get them moving faster to stop the trend of suicide.

I welcome all suggestions on how to go about this, and all suggestions on initiatives that that would be more effective.

I ask for these suggestions with the aim of eventually putting a plan together which I will do my best to carry out.

This is after hours, but I think there is more then enough good posters on here that will be able to contribute to a credible plan of action.

Thank You,

seamus

You can't ban these websites. The internet doesn't work that way.

Where To

seamus wrote: »

You can't ban these websites. The internet doesn't work that way.

The Chinese government would beg to differ.

Tiddlypeeps

tacofries wrote: »

I want to start a petition to ban 'anonymous' websites such as ask.fm which have been the cause of too too many suicides across the country.

ask.fm didn't cause any suicides. The people using it did.

If you succeed and the site is destroyed they still have countless other sites children could go to to bully each other. If you miraculously manage to block all sites of that nature in Ireland (an impossible task) then they still have sites that are not anonymous where they can sign up under pseudonyms and achieve the same results.

The only solution I can see to this issue is educating parents in monitoring their children's internet activity. Also educating children about the effects their actions online can have.

tacofries

seamus wrote: »

You can't ban these websites. The internet doesn't work that way.

Well how about put an age limit on them? Something must be able to stop them.

That is what my petition is for, to change the way the internet works in Ireland. Surely the Irish government can make it illegal for some websites to operate,.

Tiddlypeeps

seamus wrote: »

You can't ban these websites. The internet doesn't work that way.

The courts can make ISP's block websites. They did it with Eircom and The Pirate Bay.

It doesn't actually achieve anything tho, people can easily bypass it.

DipStick McSwindler

This post has been deleted.

dj jarvis

tacofries wrote: »

Well how about put an age limit on them? Something must be able to stop them.

That is what my petition is for, to change the way the internet works in Ireland. Surely the Irish government can make it illegal for some websites to operate,.

yea , great move , and when some numpty in the dept of communications takes a disliking for some stupid reason to a web site , lets say boards , or the journal ect ect they can just shut it down ?

your idea to protect kids is laudable , but in fairness i think you should start your thinking again , banning nothing has ever worked - drink , drugs porn hate speech bla bla bla - the Irish government should not be let a thousand miles near the internet - bunch of ****whits

FatherLen

what is ask.fm?

Huggles

Banning a website will make no difference whatsoever.

I was bullied for years in school way before the dawn of websites. The only thing that got me through was both knowing I could talk to any member of the teaching staff and realizing that I wouldn't be in school with these few assholes forever.

From the outside looking in it seems that these days the kids think once its outside school its no longer bullying - that and the fact that outside school jurisdiction the teachers can't really do anything either.

Either way there needs to be serious conversations in the coming days.

tacofries wrote: »

Hello,

In light of another suicide, I think its time for me to at least try to do my bit to help prevent more tragic losses.

I want to start a petition to ban 'anonymous' websites such as ask.fm which have been the cause of too too many suicides across the country.

These websites serve no purpose except to act as a gateway to bullying, harassment and pain. So much pain in fact, that it has caused the deaths of so, so many children.

What do you boardies think would be the best way to move forward with getting a serious petition going that can be put forward to the government and hopefully get these sites removed?

The only thing I am sorry about is that I didn't try and get this petition of the ground before the deaths as I always new that these anonymous websites would never serve and good justifiable purpose.

I am looking for advice on how to go about this because it is time to put a stop to the hurt and the pain caused by these websites.

Thank You,

Tiddlypeeps

tacofries wrote: »

Well how about put an age limit on them? Something must be able to stop them.

That is what my petition is for, to change the way the internet works in Ireland. Surely the Irish government can make it illegal for some websites to operate,.

You don't understand how the internet works. The Irish government has no authority over how a website hosted on a server anywhere outside the country is operated.

They can demand that Irish ISP's block the websites, but as I mentioned already, that's very easy to bypass. The way the internet works is inherently open, it's almost impossible to police it.

tacofries

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

ask.fm didn't cause any suicides. The people using it did.

If you miraculously manage to block all sites of that nature in Ireland (an impossible task) then they still have sites that are not anonymous where they can sign up under pseudonyms and achieve the same results.

I beg to differ, ask.fm did cause suicides because it gave the bullies a safe gateway by which to bully their victims.

Ask.fm are connected to facebook so comments left on it can be seen by all of the victim's friends, leaving them publicly humiliated. Malicious comments left on sites that use pseudonyms are only seen by the victims and not their friends, thus the affect of the comments is much less severe. I mean you never hear of anyone committing suicide due to comments that were made on 'omegle'.


It might be miraculous to block all these sites but either way I am going to try.

Dodge

You want to start an internet petition to have a website closed/moderated more closely?

You'll be the first ever internet petition to do so.

Good luck

Johro

Show me a petition that asks for more and better education about bullying and its causes and effects and I'll sign it. You need to go to the cause of bullying though, banning websites won't do a thing to help that. You can ask them to run an anti-bullying campaign though.
There are people that kids look up to who have media exposure and could do a lot to help imo.

tacofries

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

They can demand that Irish ISP's block the websites, but as I mentioned already, that's very easy to bypass. The way the internet works is inherently open, it's almost impossible to police it.

Well than thats what my petition will be for, To demand that Irish ISP's block the websites. Once these websites are blocked it will make it less likely that people will be publicly humiliated due to the fact that the sites(and comments left on the sites) wont be publicised by facebook where everyones friends can see the comments.

MurdyWurdy

While I agree with your sentiments that something needs to be done.

a) petitions rarely have any effect

b) if you were going to do one I'd rather it was to get the government to provide better support to teenagers/ better education about suicide and bullying/schools teaching about internet use etc then just banning website. That won't fix anything.

gobnaitolunacy

Banning won't work esp. with a site outside the country.

Parents need to wake up to what's happening now and lay down the law. Give kids basic phones, not internet accessable ones and monitor internet access. Sure there will be hissy fits and screaming matches but it's still better than a funeral.
There's only so much teachers can do and their authority ends at the school gate.

Insect Overlord

tacofries wrote: »

Well than thats what my petition will be for, To demand that Irish ISP's block the websites. Once these websites are blocked it will make it less likely that people will be publicly humiliated due to the fact that the sites(and comments left on the sites) wont be publicised by facebook where everyones friends can see the comments.

While you're at it, can you try these petitions for us as well?

• Ban cars to prevent road traffic deaths
• Ban knives to prevent stabbings
• Ban swimming to prevent drowning
• Ban matches to prevent deaths by fire

Let me know how that logic works out for you.

Drexel

Banning websites(and anything else) is not the way to go. Information and education is the way to go about these things. also parents need to monitor what their kids get up to online and realise its not just a computer but a gateway into other peoples lives

Tiddlypeeps

tacofries wrote: »

I beg to differ, ask.fm did cause suicides because it gave the bullies a safe gateway by which to bully their victims.

Ask.fm are connected to facebook so comments left on it can be seen by all of the victim's friends, leaving them publicly humiliated. Malicious comments left on sites that use pseudonyms are only seen by the victims and not their friends, thus the affect of the comments is much less severe. I mean you never hear of anyone committing suicide due to comments that were made on 'omegle'.


It might be miraculous to block all these sites but either way I am going to try.

You will fail.

The Pirate Bay is actually a good example to read up on if you would like to see how attempts such as this have panned out in the past.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pirate_Bay

I would also recommend researching how the internet actually works. I don't mean that to be condescending, but if you understand how it works you will have a better understanding of how futile the task you are attempting is.

There is some good reading on here about how to bypass internet censorship if you are interested. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_censorship_circumvention

Children are actually pretty damn good a figuring this stuff out.

I commend what you are trying to do, and I totally agree that something needs to be done. The recent suicides are devastating. But just because something needs to be done doesn't mean that the something you have decided to back is the right thing.

Johro

I've seen many a facebook conversation descend into mudslinging first then outright abuse, by adults. My sis used to run a community page dedicated to projects in the village community and fundraising ideas but had to close it because two members, middle aged women who had a disagreement, ended up calling each other stupid c#nts and bitches and all sorts, and while it was mildly amusing for a while, it was also embarrassing. Look up any youtube music vid and read the comments, you'd swear there was a war on, just through people having different tastes. I think people need to behave in a civil manner themselves before they start pointing at kids behaviour, because the way children learn is to copy, copy, copy.
And don't give children smartphones ffs.

gozunda

tacofries wrote: »

Hello,

In light of another suicide, I think its time for me to at least try to do my bit to help prevent more tragic losses.

I want to start a petition to ban 'anonymous' websites such as ask.fm which have been the cause of too too many suicides across the country.

These websites serve no purpose except to act as a gateway to bullying, harassment and pain. So much pain in fact, that it has caused the deaths of so, so many children.

What do you boardies think would be the best way to move forward with getting a serious petition going that can be put forward to the government and hopefully get these sites removed?

The only thing I am sorry about is that I didn't try and get this petition of the ground before the deaths as I always new that these anonymous websites would never serve and good justifiable purpose.

I am looking for advice on how to go about this because it is time to put a stop to the hurt and the pain caused by these websites.

Thank You,

Taco fries - fair play for the thought however I strongly believe that the only way to help prevent further deaths in this matter is to introduce legislation to criminalise such bullying / psychological abuse

The means of such abuse remains somewhat immaterial as those who bully will do it in other ways as currently bullying is only considered at best a nuisance / minor issue by employers and schools

In Ireland there are no deterrents in law to deter or deal with bullying or psychological abuse

The Gardai in Donegal stated that their hands were tied as the matter did not constitute actual assault and they could do nothing.

Whilst this status quo stands bullies will continue to feel free to assault others knowing that there will be no likley consequences to their actions as there is no legal action available against those who commit such bullying / psychological abuse

I suggest therefore that a petition would be best directed at government ministers / TDs to enable legislation that makes bullying a crime against the person.

Only then will bullying behaviour be treated with the seriousness it requires

A petition to the minister of justice might be a first step on this road.

tacofries

Insect Overlord wrote: »

While you're at it, can you try these petitions for us as well?

• Ban cars to prevent road traffic deaths
• Ban knives to prevent stabbings
• Ban swimming to prevent drowning
• Ban matches to prevent deaths by fire

Let me know how that logic works out for you.

Your a sound lad, aren't ya

Insect Overlord

tacofries wrote: »

Your a sound lad, aren't ya

I'm actually on your side. Bullying/suicide prevention is a topic I feel very strongly about.

Petitions to throw babies out with the bath-water aren't so great though.

Procasinator

tacofries wrote: »

Well than thats what my petition will be for, To demand that Irish ISP's block the websites. Once these websites are blocked it will make it less likely that people will be publicly humiliated due to the fact that the sites(and comments left on the sites) wont be publicised by facebook where everyones friends can see the comments.

I would imagine these sites have the functionality to disable posting to Facebook. An educational campaign to teach users privacy settings and appropriate usage of the Web would be much more beneficial than a campaign against a select few companies.

Blocking the websites probably won't do much. Generally, these blocks are by-passable. Even if their not, other providers will pop up to fill the demand.

Another problem with blocking/banning is the Streisand effect. Teenagers curiosity will rise further if the sites were forbidden. I wouldn't be surprised if Ask.fm membership and usage has increased during these high profile cases.

floggg

tacofries wrote: »

I beg to differ, ask.fm did cause suicides because it gave the bullies a safe gateway by which to bully their victims.

Ask.fm are connected to facebook so comments left on it can be seen by all of the victim's friends, leaving them publicly humiliated. Malicious comments left on sites that use pseudonyms are only seen by the victims and not their friends, thus the affect of the comments is much less severe. I mean you never hear of anyone committing suicide due to comments that were made on 'omegle'.


It might be miraculous to block all these sites but either way I am going to try.

So given how many suicides happened as a result of school yard bullying, should we ban schools as gateways to bullying?

You really don't grasp the nature of the problem, do you? It's really comforting to be able to point to something easy and obvious as the problem, and tell yourself how great you are for being against it.

But the fact of the matter is, websites didn't bully anybody. They just provided a place where teens and young adults can gather and interact.

Anywhere teens can gather and interact, you will unfortunately see bullying by he venue isn't the problem, it's the attitudes and behaviours of the perpetrators.

Addressing that takes a little bit more time, effort and expenses, which evidently people aren't willing to invest.

So they identify a bogey man, scape goat it, and then tell themselves how great they are for being so moralistic.

Duggy747

Blaming websites for what happens is the wrong direction to focus people's attention on and one where you will fail. Blaming the tool and not the user.

The general public have a lack of understanding of how the internet, websites, services, laws, laws applying to where web servers are located, etc, fully operate and thus paint the wrong scapegoat leading to a media frenzy and an angry mob that goes nowhere.

Information, guidelines, harsher reactions to those who bully, better education and awareness to parents and kids about the use of social media & bullying is what's needed, not another braying mob looking for a quick fix. All these sites have privacy filters which so many people have no idea how to configure.

Better to aim at the right targets rather than yet another "BAN THIS" petition that will fade into obscurity and further trivialise this situation.

Banning does nothing and would, more than likely, raise the type of site's business up because of all the interest it's generating. Hypothetically, you shut down ask.fm another 2 copycat sites will be up instantly to cash in.

tacofries

PLEASE READ FIRST POST AGAIN EVERYONE.

I realise that by aim was seriously flawed. I am now looking for an aim, yet to be decided, that has potential.

Huggles

All this discussion about websites when in actual fact all we need to do is sit kids and teenagers down and explain that its NOT ok to treat other people like ****. I know easier said than done but it really is that straight forward.

The fact that they are sitting at a screen should not let them forget your talking to a real human with feelings. The teachers/parents need to step up.

tacofries

Insect Overlord wrote: »

I'm actually on your side. Bullying/suicide prevention is a topic I feel very strongly about.

Petitions to throw babies out with the bath-water aren't so great though.

if your own my side then i ask you not to say things in a smart-arsed tone.

Tiddlypeeps

gozunda wrote: »

I suggest therefore that a petition would be best directed at government ministers / TDs to enable legislation that makes bullying a crime against the person.

Only then will bullying behaviour be treated with the seriousness it requires

This is no trivial task. You would first need to define what constitutes bullying.

I'm fairly certain threats to inflict harm on another are illegal already. It is in the UK anyway and our laws are usually quite similar.

How do you legislate against the kind of bullying these children usually receive without threading to far on freedom of speech. The type of bullying that teenage girls usually get usually involves insulting their appearance, their social status or their popularity.

How do you differentiate between one girl telling another that her shoes are ugly because she cares and wants her to improve them, and another telling a girl her shoes are ugly because she wants to hurt and embarrass her. The actions are the same but the intent and possibly the effect are very different.

I'm not saying only girls get bullied, I just find it easier to come up with examples for girls.

I'm not saying it shouldn't be legislated for, but I can't see it being an easy law to make.

Insect Overlord

tacofries wrote: »

if your own my side then i ask you not to say things in a smart-arsed tone.

No problem. Apologies for the bluntness of my previous comment.

Huggles

Your demonstrating how these things get out of control so quickly - well done.

tacofries wrote: »

if your own my side then i ask you not to say things in a smart-arsed tone.

floggg

gozunda wrote: »

Taco fries - fair play for the thought however I strongly believe that the only way to help prevent further deaths in this matter is to introduce legislation to criminalise such bullying / psychological abuse

The means of such abuse remains somewhat immaterial as those who bully will do it in other ways as currently bullying is only considered at best a nuisance / minor issue by employers and schools

In Ireland there are no deterrents in law to deter or deal with bullying or psychological abuse

The Gardai in Donegal stated that their hands were tied as the matter did not constitute actual assault and they could do nothing.

Whilst this status quo stands bullies will continue to feel free to assault others knowing that there will be no likley consequences to their actions as there is no legal action available against those who commit such bullying / psychological abuse

I suggest therefore that a petition would be best directed at government ministers / TDs to enable legislation that makes bullying a crime against the person.

Only then will bullying behaviour be treated with the seriousness it requires

A petition to the minister of justice might be a first step on this road.

Criminalising twelve year olds for being too young to grasp how cruel and damaging what they perceive to be school yard fun. Yes, that's an even better idea.

Most of the time kids don't even realise what they are doing could be classed as bullying or how harmful it can be.

But yea, less ruin some lives before they begin. That will show them not to do they thing they may not even realise they are doing.

dj jarvis

tacofries wrote: »

Well than thats what my petition will be for, To demand that Irish ISP's block the websites. Once these websites are blocked it will make it less likely that people will be publicly humiliated due to the fact that the sites(and comments left on the sites) wont be publicised by facebook where everyones friends can see the comments.

and again ill say it - so you block what you think is offensive , grand , and then someone with a more sensitive dispossession does not like what oyu are saying , they get your choice of media blocked ??? pointless

i understand you want to do something , but dont become one of these blinkered people who have their mind set on a action becasue they believe it right , but ignore the VAST VAST Marjory who are pointing out the flaws and faults - and to make a point , you are now starting to annoy ME with your arguing of a point that cant and wont work , so i would like you banned

see how that works - want to make a difference ?
volunteer for a anti bullying group , go talk to children in schools and the like

but dont be a knee jerk Gerry and ban something just becasue YOU think it is the cause - if you want ASK banned ? how about getting onto the lazy ass parents who dont monitor the kids internet usage in the first place

Huggles

I think we all know our teenage years were the toughest - mine certainly were and in my school there was a real pack mentality which is very easily reproduced online. as mentioned there needs to be education that being a dick and hurting someone is not ok!

truthMerchant

It was such a horrible thing to happen,

But I can't help but feel it is a very naive thing to be suggesting website bans as a result of it. Teenage girls are teenage girls. They are terribly cruel to each other even at the best of times. These websites have other purposes than such things and provide useful services.

Imagine the flipside of the coin where someone who suffers from bad social anxiety and fears communicating with people in person, outlets such as ask.fm may provide them comfort and a means of socializing.

Bullying is a people problem, you can't go blaming a website for a problem such as this, it needs to be solved on a person to person basis.

At the end of the day, it's a problem of bad parenting. Up until an older age than 15/16 patents should be monitoring their childrens online activity. You wouldn't let them wander the streets talking to strangers at such an age would you?

dj jarvis

truthMerchant wrote: »

It was such a horrible thing to happen,

But I can't help but feel it is a very naive thing to be suggesting website bans as a result of it. Teenage girls are teenage girls. They are terribly cruel to each other even at the best of times. These websites have other purposes than such things and provide useful services.

Imagine the flipside of the coin where someone who suffers from bad social anxiety and fears communicating with people in person, outlets such as ask.fm may provide them comfort and a means of socializing.

Bullying is a people problem, you can't go blaming a website for a problem such as this, it needs to be solved on a person to person basis.

At the end of the day, it's a problem of bad parenting. Up until an older age than 15/16 patents should be monitoring their childrens online activity. You wouldn't let them wander the streets talking to strangers at such an age would you?

JEBUS :eek:

a first post that is insightful and helpful !!!
normally they are racist - spam - or slagging someones ma

well done - keep it up

Wurly

In my opinion, there needs to be a proper programme put in place to deal with this in the school. Children need to be educated on the harm that bullying can cause. But rather than just look at outcomes, looking at the 'why' is most important.

It is a known fact that many children that are bullies are being bullied themselves, be it in school or in the home.

As a past victim of bullying, I can tell you that the school were an absolute disgrace in dealing with the problem. I was accused of fabricating, downright lying and being too sensitive.

There needs to be something that forms part of the curriculum for teachers and students alike so that everyone is singing off the same hymn sheet. If children were educated more on their emotional well-being and how to deal with negative emotions, things would be a lot better.

A child acts out usually due to pain in their life. The person who is bullied is then subjected to that pain. So children should always have access to someone who they can talk to so that they can offload. Otherwise, they can offload in damaging ways - i.e. becoming a bully or committing suicide.

I have spent many years coming to terms with the fact that there is in fact nothing wrong with me - such is the legacy that being bullied leaves behind. Children should be educated on their value as a human being and be encouraged to be who they are. The school has a vital function in providing this platform.

floggg

tacofries wrote: »

Hello,

REVISED THREAD DUE TO UNPOPULAR PLAN

In light of another suicide, I think its time for me to at least try to do my bit to help prevent more tragic losses.


What do you boardies think would be the best way to move forward with getting a serious petition,or other activity, going that can be put forward to the government to get them moving faster to stop the trend of suicide.

I welcome all suggestions on how to go about this, and all suggestions on initiatives that that would be more effective.

I ask for these suggestions with the aim of eventually putting a plan together which I will do my best to carry out.

This is after hours, but I think there is more then enough good posters on here that will be able to contribute to a credible plan of action.

Thank You,

How about you do some research on organisations in the voluntary sector who run education or awareness program's, pick the one you think is the best, then contact them and ask how you can best help, be it through donations/fund raising or volunteering your time?

Procasinator

Wurly wrote: »

In my opinion, there needs to be a proper programme put in place to deal with this in the school. Children need to be educated on the harm that bullying can cause. But rather than just look at outcomes, looking at the 'why' is most important.

It is a known fact that many children that are bullies are being bullied themselves, be it in school or in the home.

As a past victim of bullying, I can tell you that the school were an absolute disgrace in dealing with the problem. I was accused of fabricating, downright lying and being too sensitive.

There needs to be something that forms part of the curriculum for teachers and students alike so that everyone is singing off the same hymn sheet. If children were educated more on their emotional well-being and how to deal with negative emotions, things would be a lot better.

A child acts out usually due to pain in their life. The person who is bullied is then subjected to that pain. So children should always have access to someone who they can talk to so that they can offload. Otherwise, they can offload in damaging ways - i.e. becoming a bully or committing suicide.

I have spent many years coming to terms with the fact that there is in fact nothing wrong with me - such is the legacy that being bullied leaves behind. Children should be educated on their value as a human being and be encouraged to be who they are. The school has a vital function in providing this platform.

Was just reading a document from the Department of Education regarding guidelines for schools.

http://www.education.ie/en/Parents/Information/Complaints-Bullying-Child-Protection-Discrimination/Guidelines-on-countering-bullying-behaviour-in-primary-and-post-primary-schools.pdf

More information at Citzens Information:
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/education/primary_and_post_primary_education/attendance_and_discipline_in_schools/bullying_in_schools_in_ireland.html

Reporting of bullying is one side of the puzzle. How to handle it is the other. I don't know how well most schools implement these guidelines (some of which are a legal responsibility).

I agree with you that most schools need to focus on teaching students how to handle and value themselves as well.

Tiddlypeeps

tacofries wrote: »

Hello,

REVISED THREAD DUE TO UNPOPULAR PLAN

In light of another suicide, I think its time for me to at least try to do my bit to help prevent more tragic losses.


What do you boardies think would be the best way to move forward with getting a serious petition,or other activity, going that can be put forward to the government to get them moving faster to stop the trend of suicide.

I welcome all suggestions on how to go about this, and all suggestions on initiatives that that would be more effective.

I ask for these suggestions with the aim of eventually putting a plan together which I will do my best to carry out.

This is after hours, but I think there is more then enough good posters on here that will be able to contribute to a credible plan of action.

Thank You,

There is no easy solution. The problem is lack of education on the parts of the children and parents.

Setting up a charity that travels around the country training teachers how to teach children about impact vs intent, and about general internet usage would probably be a good start. That would give the schools the tools it needs to start making a difference.

Something similar for the parents, maybe set up a group that travels around holding training days in community centers around the country teaching parents about the internet, how their children use it and more importantly how to keep and eye on what they are doing.

Best of luck with whatever you decide to do.

Ares

I would be very hesitant about the wording and action of any bullying law. What the victim might feel is bullying might be considered a bit of craic to every other party involved.

There is a certain level of adversity needed to do well in life. Stuff like getting slagged and learning how to give as good as you get, standing up for yourself and encountering and moving past people who you don't get along with are very important during adolosence.

When this descends into bullying then it is completely and utterly wrong. But its very hard to define and could lead to abuse in its application of law.

As an aside the dysfunctionality of Irish teenage girls in particular is extremely worrying. My youngest sister is still in school and about 10 of the class of 40 have been cutting since September. They are 16. The never ending strive for beauty/popularity that occupies a teenage girl mind is leading many into a desolate pit of despair. The combatting of this issue is something that falls partially on the society of Ireland, but moreso on the parents/guardians of Ireland to teach their kids about mental health, life, internet usage and soloutions to whatever problems arise.

gobnaitolunacy

Ares wrote: »

As an aside the dysfunctionality of Irish teenage girls in particular is extremely worrying. My youngest sister is still in school and about 10 of the class of 40 have been cutting since September. They are 16. The never ending strive for beauty/popularity that occupies a teenage girl mind is leading many into a desolate pit of despair. The combatting of this issue is something that falls partially on the society of Ireland, but moreso on the parents/guardians of Ireland to teach their kids about mental health, life and soloutions to whatever problems arise.

I recall the girls whom I went to school as demure lot who wouldn't say boo to a goose in the 80's/early 90's. I'm assuming now it's copycatting 'celebs' publicly smacking each other down and 'let's all laugh at the silly person on X Factor' mentality.

donegal_road

ASIST (Applied Suicide Intervention Skills Training).

ASIST should be publicized more

Odysseus

The best thing I would suggest is forget the petition and maybe volunteer with a voluntary group which aims to tackle such issues.

Dodge

Odysseus wrote: »

The best thing I would suggest is forget the petition and maybe volunteer with a voluntary group which aims to tackle such issues.

Want to know how big a dick I am? rather thank this post for its undoubtably excellent and straight forward message, my first thought was "hee hee, he said 'volunteer with a voluntary group', let me point it out"

Time for me to stay away from AH for a while

OP - take that man's advice

gozunda

floggg wrote: »

Criminalising twelve year olds for being too young to grasp how cruel and damaging what they perceive to be school yard fun. Yes, that's an even better idea.
Most of the time kids don't even realise what they are doing could be classed as bullying or how harmful it can be.
But yea, less ruin some lives before they begin. That will show them not to do they thing they may not even realise they are doing.

Ok that is missing the essential point

Bullying is an assault on the person that can cause actual harm

Bullying is endemic both in education and employment

Bullying is carried out by both teenagers and adults

Like actual physical assault children / teenagers / adults are not removed from using it against another individual


Young adults / teenagers are often savy enough to know exactly what harm they are doing when bullying behaviour is instigated

The case of Phoebe Prince and other cases clearly shows this

In the case of other violence by children such as the Bolger case in the UK - should we cover our eyes and say they didn't know what they were doing - it was only school yard fun....


Bullying is assault / deliberate psychological assault that in a proportion of victims leads to suicide and other self harm. IT IS NOT SCHOOL YARD FUN.

If there is no legal protection of the person against such assault how can those who are victims of bullying ever feel safe?

If there is no deterrent to individuals not to engage in such behaviour ( and conscience seems to play no part here) HOW do we prevent those that would do this from ruining others lives.

Bullying must be criminalised. If it is done by an adult then they will face prosecution. Where a young person truly does not understand the consequence of their actions then the law will allow them that discretion. However we cannot allow the freedoms and lives of specific individuals to be deliberately destroyed by others with no possible consequences.

We give rights to individuals against physical assault - why should we not provide the same protection against psychological assault?

DEFTLEFTHAND

It's very hard to tackle the issue of suicide, it's a problem that will never be eradicated. Even before sites like facebook I remember spates of young suicides happening in small communities over short periods of time.

Schools need to focus more on mental health issues and encourage young people to talk about their feelings. The taboo over mental health can certainly be overcome imo.

gozunda

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

This is no trivial task. You would first need to define what constitutes bullying.

I'm fairly certain threats to inflict harm on another are illegal already. It is in the UK anyway and our laws are usually quite similar.

How do you legislate against the kind of bullying these children usually receive without threading to far on freedom of speech. The type of bullying that teenage girls usually get usually involves insulting their appearance, their social status or their popularity.

How do you differentiate between one girl telling another that her shoes are ugly because she cares and wants her to improve them, and another telling a girl her shoes are ugly because she wants to hurt and embarrass her. The actions are the same but the intent and possibly the effect are very different.

I'm not saying only girls get bullied, I just find it easier to come up with examples for girls.

I'm not saying it shouldn't be legislated for, but I can't see it being an easy law to make.

Tiddley peeps

Bullying has already been defined

Bullying is defined by the Department of Education and Skills guidelines as repeated physical, verbal or psychological aggression directed by an individual or group against others. Bullying can occur at any age, in any environment, and can be long or short-term.

bullying / psychological assault is not treated as an offence against the person under Irish law

Remember bullying and psychological assault is not just the actions of teenagers - bullying by adults is a huge problem especially in the workplace

If you want to look at a practical example of how anti bullying legislation i suggest you look at the laws enacted following the Phoebe Prince case in the states.

I don't believe any change in the law is easy but that is why we have specialists and legislators to undertake such tasks.

tacofries

floggg wrote: »

So given how many suicides happened as a result of school yard bullying, should we ban schools as gateways to bullying?

But the fact of the matter is, websites didn't bully anybody. They just provided a place where teens and young adults can gather and interact.

In relation to your first point: No banning schools is ridiculous, people need to learn. Banning websites that have no point however is totally different.

Point 2; I never said the website bullied anyone. I said it acted as the medium which allowed people to be bullied. Not all bullying is done through websites but some of it is...