Bula 2013

Huntley

Only way Grandouet loses is if he needs the run. Run fast my friend.

ft9

I plan on Grandouet paying for xmas.

What's the ground/weather like over there anybody know?

UrbanSea

ft9 wrote: »

I plan on Grandouet paying for xmas.

What's the ground/weather like over there anybody know?

Good to soft, cross country currently frozen, 9 degrees Friday with heavy rain the same day

ft9

That heavy rain Friday can **** off with itself.

ste2010

That rain will play into the hands of uncle junior in the cross country if it gets heavy.
I fancy Balthazar king again given te swing in weights since last time

ste2010

ft9 wrote: »

I plan on Grandouet paying for xmas.

What's the ground/weather like over there anybody know?

Are you going to load your Xmas wages on him? Are you sure 1st time out this season...

ft9

The only thing stopping me is the fact that it's first time out. I will be having a decent bet all the same.

Huntley

ft9 wrote: »

I plan on Grandouet paying for xmas.

What's the ground/weather like over there anybody know?

Probably my biggest bet since I took everything about Sprinter after Kempton last December. Looks to be little pace anyway, bunch of sitting ducks until Barry hits the turbos is my first thought.

Looks a smart enough campaign starting him late considering last year. Not really worried if he gets turned over here, just a better price for the Kingwell and Champion.

Hulk Hands

Huntley wrote: »

Probably my biggest bet since I took everything about Sprinter after Kempton last December. Looks to be little pace anyway, bunch of sitting ducks until Barry hits the turbos is my first thought.

Looks a smart enough campaign starting him late considering last year. Not really worried if he gets turned over here, just a better price for the Kingwell and Champion.

Rock on Ruby for me, although i'll wait until I see trainer comments regarding fitness. Fehily will push on, he's not stupid enough to leave himself open to a speed finish. In saying that, it's not like RoR is slow. Still not getting the credit he deserves for last March

ft9

Hulk Hands wrote: »

Rock on Ruby for me, although i'll wait until I see trainer comments regarding fitness. Fehily will push on, he's not stupid enough to leave himself open to a speed finish. In saying that, it's not like RoR is slow. Still not getting the credit he deserves for last March

I still can not come to terms with the fact that Rock On Ruby is the Champion Hurdler.

ste2010

ft9 wrote: »

I still can not come to terms with the fact that Rock On Ruby is the Champion Hurdler.

I can. He ran a cracker and deserved to win. He could well have beaten binocular in the Christmas hurdle only for clipping the second and his record in Cheltenham is outstanding. The more and more I look At the form.. I definitely think this will be between ROR and grandouet. I thought Zarkandar ran a great race in wincanton giving weight but given what happened cinders and ashes I am beginning to think the supreme form of last year may well not weigh up this year. McCain says he doesn't like the ground..I am not so sure ...
You'd expect grandouet to be a smarter older horse and to have grown since his last appearance in this. I just hope he's ready. ill prob back both in a tron and a significant single on one or the other. His price is contracting on OChecker

mdwexford

A year off the track with bigger fish to fry later in the season, id be careful.

He may well win but who knows how fit and sharp he will be.

rossom

mdwexford wrote: »

A year off the track with bigger fish to fry later in the season, id be careful.

He may well win but who knows how fit and sharp he will be.

That's the way I see it. I won't be betting but Zarkandar would definitely be my angle into the race. Only race fit rival of the principles, receives 4lb from both Grandouet & Rock On Ruby and beat the former fair and square in the Triumph convincingly back in 2011.

Regardless of what you think about Rock On Ruby (completely unsure but leaning towards not entirely convinced), I get the distinct impression that Harry Fry doesn't give 2 ****es about winning on his seasonal reappearance and I'd be pretty shocked if he wins this based on that alone.

I think anyone backing Grandouet on the back of a year absence is very brave. If pushed for a bet, I'd probably back him W/O Zarkandar on the day if I got even money or better but I have no intention of getting involved in this.

UrbanSea

This has no bet written all over it. Backed Grandouet last year, would like to see him win

rossom

Also just noticed that the last 9 winners of this had a run within the last 30 days. None of the principals fall into this trend but clearly a massive plus in the Zarkandar column

SRFC

Didnt rock on ruby bolt up first time out last season when he supposedly wasnt ready and nicholls had a fancied one in the betting before ROR so dont think he'll need the run same can be said with Grandouet I remember him on the snaff last year against Celestial Halo first run of the season cantering all over him before falling didnt look like he needed the run that day so cant see them not being fit enought for a 70k race.

RichieLawlor

Anyone who thinks ROR won't be razor sharp is kidding themselves. This race is worth a fortune relatively and will easily be Harry Frys biggest pot to date. ROR will be trying for is life

Colonel Sanders

RichieLawlor wrote: »

Anyone who thinks ROR won't be razor sharp is kidding themselves. This race is worth a fortune relatively and will easily be Harry Frys biggest pot to date. ROR will be trying for is life

Is there still a bonus for winning this & the champion?

Slattsy

Personally i think ROR benefited hugely in the CH by Overturn setting a blistering pace. That took the 'speed' out of the speed horses as such.

I dont know where the pace will come this time unless ROR makes it
If there is no pace it will benefit Grandouet more than ROR and Zarkandar.

Im finding it hard to be enthused by anything really.

Arctic89

When I saw the prices for this I really thought they were the wrong way around. In my opinion if Grandouet had the benefit of a run this season he'd be 11/8 or shorter. Agree completely that RoR needs a fast pace and if he goes out to make it himself I'd worry about him staying up the hill.

Zarkandar is a horse I like but I think he lacks the speed for a sharp 2m 1f around Cheltenham and his jumping has never inspired me. Remember reading Nicholls was seriously considering upping him to 3 miles so I'm not the only person that doubts his speed.

Grandouet is definitely the one I'd have least concern about ability wise and if he had had a run before this I'd be unloading the Christmas wages on him at 5/2. He fell on his reappearance last year so might not be too sharp and I just get the feeling he might need the run. Regardless of this, he's my idea of the Champion Hurdler this year and if he puts in a good run on Saturday I'll be taking a price on him following up in March.

handsomecake

ZARKANDAR for me. Think he wins this and the champion hurdle

mdwexford

handsomecake wrote: »

ZARKANDAR for me. Think he wins this and the champion hurdle

Why when he got stuffed last year?

Hulk Hands

UrbanSea wrote: »

This has no bet written all over it.

Why? There was a massive discrepancy between the markets prices for the last two days, so there was clearly an angle to be found. It's a bigger claim to state that the bookies have each and every horse priced spot on than it is to state why one is a good bet.

Goldcupfav

5yo horses have a terrible record in the Champion Hurdle. Think two 5yo have won it in the last 30 years. Id fully expect Zarkander to improve this year and to be closer than 5th place he was last year whether he wins it or not is another matter. PN said before the Elite Hurdle that Zarkander wasnt fully tuned up and would come on for the run. To win and give that much weight away and to apparently not be fully was very impressive imo. Think Zarkander wins the Bula on Saturday although he's price is to skinny for me to have a bet.

SRFC

Bet of the year is Rock on ruby and Grandouet Dutched cant be having Zarkander that prospect wells he beat is no use butchered to beat him even if he was half fit I'd expect one of the 2 above to win back both cant lose :cool:

Juwwi

The last 9 winners of the Bula hurdle had run in the previous 30 days of the race.

UrbanSea

Hulk Hands wrote: »

Why? There was a massive discrepancy between the markets prices for the last two days, so there was clearly an angle to be found. It's a bigger claim to state that the bookies have each and every horse priced spot on than it is to state why one is a good bet.

What looks a three horse race with the highest of them priced 5/2. Would have to really fancy one to back one, which I don't.

SRFC wrote: »

Bet of the year is Rock on ruby and Grandouet Dutched cant be having Zarkander that prospect wells he beat is no use butchered to beat him even if he was half fit I'd expect one of the 2 above to win back both cant lose :cool:

Think you're being a bit harsh on Zarkander. I'm one of Prospect Wells' biggest sceptics, but he is a fair horse who he gave 17 pounds to

SRFC

UrbanSea wrote: »

What looks a three horse race with the highest of them priced 5/2. Would have to really fancy one to back one, which I don't.




Think you're being a bit harsh on Zarkander. I'm one of Prospect Wells' biggest sceptics, but he is a fair horse who he gave 17 pounds to

Taking a position on him and sticking to it



Dont like that prospect wells he was well beaten behind Olofi at Cheltenham in a handicap last time obviosuly zarkandar will improve but I think he was well forward that day he beat PW because he's known to win after breaks first time up,


Convinced he needs a trip aswell his staying on up the hill at the finish in the CH last year made me think he was for the 3m division this year Grandouet is very classy and rock on ruby could steal it from the front quite easily so I have to be against Zarkandar.

Hulk Hands

UrbanSea wrote: »

What looks a three horse race with the highest of them priced 5/2. Would have to really fancy one to back one, which I don't.

Highest was 3's yesterday. It was just the wording 'no bet written all over it' as opposed to 'no bet for me'. Thought u meant it should be a no-bet race for everyone as opposed to just yourself

UrbanSea

SRFC wrote: »

Taking a position on him and sticking to it



Dont like that prospect wells he was well beaten behind Olofi at Cheltenham in a handicap last time obviosuly zarkandar will improve but I think he was well forward that day he beat PW because he's known to win after breaks first time up,


Convinced he needs a trip aswell his staying on up the hill at the finish in the CH last year made me think he was for the 3m division this year Grandouet is very classy and rock on ruby could steal it from the front quite easily so I have to be against Zarkandar.

Even before the Supreme last year there was something I didn't like about him. Struck me as a stayer too

Hulk Hands wrote: »

Highest was 3's yesterday. It was just the wording 'no bet written all over it' as opposed to 'no bet for me'. Thought u meant it should be a no-bet race for everyone as opposed to just yourself

Sorry Hulk just meant for myself

ft9

Grandouet Urban!

He's paying for Christmas.

SRFC

ft9 wrote: »

Grandouet Urban!

He's paying for Christmas.

I admire your confidence Im all in with ya make or break no turkey this year if he doesnt deliver

ste2010

In going with one cool shabra running more than 100 races in the next year..Oliver brady will get his comeuppance one of these days!

hucklebuck

mdwexford wrote: »

Why when he got stuffed last year?

Sorry Md but that is ridiculous, he was beaten about 6 lengths with two Champion Hurdler winners just in front of him and all that after being on anti biotics 2 weeks before the race.

For me it's between Zarkandar and Grandouet but can't be backing a Henderson hurdler first time out at this time of year.

Richie, no comment about they never come back?

mdwexford

hucklebuck wrote: »

Sorry Md but that is ridiculous, he was beaten about 6 lengths with two Champion Hurdler winners just in front of him and all that after being on anti biotics 2 weeks before the race.

For me it's between Zarkandar and Grandouet but can't be backing a Henderson hurdler first time out at this time of year.

Richie, no comment about they never come back?

Cant agree.

It was a poor race last year with the two Champion Hurdlers you mention running way below their best.

If he was sick and can produce better then we shall see but until I see it I think he is a joke of a price for the festival.

Dont think he has the tactical pace for a Champion Hurdle, others can press the button and are gone and he has no answers to go with them.

Grandouet hasnt been out long enough for the they never come back to apply btw.

hucklebuck

People are callling it a poor race but the fact is Overturn and ROR got too much rope from HF and Binocular.

Zarkandar must be the best hurdler Nicholls has otherwise he would have surely sent him to Fry. He doesnt have a turbo but he has heart and lots of it. I think he will really show himself on Saturday.

Grandouet is injured 10 plus months and last ran over a year ago. What is the timeframe, a year is a fair time in my book.

mdwexford

Still think HF should have been able to get there.
Dont like any of last years runners for this seasons myself.

I do like the horse but I just cant see him winning a Champion Hurdle.
I didnt see Hardy Eustace winning one either though.

Hes only missed half a season really.
Imo its missing more than a full season of actual action, this is of course my own random assessment.

Huntley

Hulk Hands wrote: »

Not sure what part you don't understand. I think the price is too big and if he is turned over it will simply lead to bigger prices for the Kingwell and Champion to put my money on.

hucklebuck wrote: »

Zarkandar must be the best hurdler Nicholls has otherwise he would have surely sent him to Fry.

You have been on form recently hucklebuck. First Lieutenant a Grade 3 horse, Sanctuaire over the top before the Tingle Creek and now this junk.

What trainer in their right mind would want to give away their assets that enable them to make money just because they mightn't be the best one? It's hard enough getting a decent supply of quality animals for trainers as evident by how few dominate the earning charts.

hucklebuck wrote: »

Grandouet is injured 10 plus months and last ran over a year ago. What is the timeframe, a year is a fair time in my book.

Grandouet hasn't been injured for 10+ months. Time off the racecourse isn't synonymous with injury. His delayed reappearance has obviously been a strategic move.

Zarkandar wont be winning the Champion Hurdle either, save your money.

adevvabr

hucklebuck wrote: »

People are callling it a poor race but the fact is Overturn and ROR got too much rope from HF and Binocular.

Zarkandar must be the best hurdler Nicholls has otherwise he would have surely sent him to Fry. He doesnt have a turbo but he has heart and lots of it. I think he will really show himself on Saturday.

Grandouet is injured 10 plus months and last ran over a year ago. What is the timeframe, a year is a fair time in my book.

That statement makes no sense at all, why would Nicholls ever send Zarkandar to Harry Fry even if he thought he had a better hurdler in his yard!

SRFC

Dont think Nicholls made the decision to send Harry fry ROR the owner calls the shots (as seen with kauto this week) Richard Barber who owns ROR owns the yard fry trains out so he gave him the horse to start him off training (He actually trained it last year but it was in PN name).

rossom

SRFC wrote: »

Bet of the year is Rock on ruby and Grandouet Dutched cant be having Zarkander that prospect wells he beat is no use butchered to beat him even if he was half fit I'd expect one of the 2 above to win back both cant lose :cool:

He gave Prospect Wells 17lb. That certainly is nothing to be sniffed at. You're also forgetting that win was off a mark of 163.

I don't fancy Zarkandar for the CH myself as I do feel he'll find things happening a little too quickly before staying on again but I think dismissing him in this is a mistake, especially as he is the only race fit rival. May not turn out to be the best horse in the race (not discounting that he won't either) but I think his recent run gives him the edge. No chance I'm betting in this race though.

rossom

SRFC wrote: »

Dont think Nicholls made the decision to send Harry fry ROR the owner calls the shots (as seen with kauto this week) Richard Barber who owns ROR owns the yard fry trains out so he gave him the horse to start him off training (He actually trained it last year but it was in PN name).

100% the case that Barber sent Fry Rock On Ruby as opposed to Nicholls getting rid of him. Rock On Ruby was trained in the Nicholls satellite yard last season which Fry was in charge of so he would have had a huge input throughout the season - probably more so than Nicholls. PN would have had no say in the matter

hucklebuck

Huntley wrote: »

You have been on form recently hucklebuck. First Lieutenant a Grade 3 horse, Sanctuaire over the top before the Tingle Creek and now this junk.

Not wanting to take this off topic but First Lieutenant isn't top class and I think he will prove to be a handicapper. Why is it so inconceivable that Sanctuaire was over the top? Nicholls would have wanted him 100% due to facing SS and he was dancing and kicking around the parade ring, went to the start on his own and then went out like a light. This junk? What that it's between Grandouet and Zarkandar or I won't be backing Grandouet because Hendersons sketchy record this time of year for his Champion Hurdle contenders?

Huntley wrote: »

What trainer in their right mind would want to give away their assets that enable them to make money just because they mightn't be the best one? It's hard enough getting a decent supply of quality animals for trainers as evident by how few dominate the earning charts.

You need to re-read my post on this point. If Nicholls thought ROR was better than Zarkandar, surely he would have sent Zarkandar to Fry and ROR would have stayed at home.

Huntley wrote: »

Grandouet hasn't been injured for 10+ months. Time off the racecourse isn't synonymous with injury. His delayed reappearance has obviously been a strategic move.

He got injured in the yard around January as far as I remember

Huntley wrote: »

Zarkandar wont be winning the Champion Hurdle either, save your money.

I think I am done with ante post betting given what happened poor auld Go Native and Imperial having a set back. It's one think being on the wrong horse and losing but handing over money to bookies grates on me.

RichieLawlor

Grandouet had an infection not a proper injury, after they missed the festival with him they put him in a field till this season. He probably could have been ready for Liverpool but there was no race for him there. As for Punchestown they didn't see the point in keeping the horse going for a few months for one race. The year previous he had run at the Festival and Liverpool so was ready to come over.

They never come back shouldn't apply to Grandouet.

If be very disapointed if Zarkandar was quick enough to win a champion.

premierstone

hucklebuck wrote: »

You need to re-read my post on this point. If Nicholls thought ROR was better than Zarkandar, surely he would have sent Zarkandar to Fry and ROR would have stayed at home.

Seriously how can you not get this?? Nicholl's does not own either horse, he had no say, none whatsoever, in where ROR was to be trained this year.

Did you expect him then to say ''please take that pig Zarkandar away from my yard as ROR is better''

PS if either win a champion this year I will be both shocked and disgusted.

RichieLawlor

premierstone wrote: »

Seriously how can you not get this?? Nicholl's does not own either horse, he had no say, none whatsoever, in where ROR was to be trained this year.

Did you expect him then to say ''please take that pig Zarkandar away from my yard as ROR is better''

PS if either win a champion this year I will be both shocked and disgusted.

He means last year, when ROR was trained in the satellite yard. If he thought ROR was the better prospect then when not have Zarkandar in the satellite yard.

That's how I read his post anyway, nothing to do with this year

meriwether

Does anyone know if there is any betting for the Christmas hurdle at Kempton knocking about yet?

I looked last night, but couldn't see any.

premierstone

RichieLawlor wrote: »

He means last year, when ROR was trained in the satellite yard. If he thought ROR was the better prospect then when not have Zarkandar in the satellite yard.

That's how I read his post anyway, nothing to do with this year

Maybe so I certainly hadn't read it that way, its still a feckin quantam leap tbf. Barber and Fry's realtionship was the sole reason, and in anycase even if it was as hucklebuck suggests I would still be of the opinion he would have to be a good deal better than ROR to win a normal Champion Hurlde, last year was a false run race that couldn't have fallen better for the winner if he planed it himself.

Huntley

hucklebuck wrote: »

Not wanting to take this off topic but First Lieutenant isn't top class and I think he will prove to be a handicapper.

Highly unlikely. It's pretty evident that First Lieutenant is a different animal at Cheltenham on good ground.

hucklebuck wrote: »

Why is it so inconceivable that Sanctuaire was over the top? Nicholls would have wanted him 100% due to facing SS and he was dancing and kicking around the parade ring, went to the start on his own and then went out like a light.

He went off too fast and payed for it.

As for the horse being on his toes and going to the start early, I don't see what's unusual about that for him. He runs with the choke out, it's pretty obvious he isn't going to be a settled Steve prior to the race.

hucklebuck wrote: »

This junk? What that it's between Grandouet and Zarkandar or I won't be backing Grandouet because Hendersons sketchy record this time of year for his Champion Hurdle contenders?

The junk about sending horses to Harry Fry.

hucklebuck wrote: »

You need to re-read my post on this point. If Nicholls thought ROR was better than Zarkandar, surely he would have sent Zarkandar to Fry and ROR would have stayed at home.

You obviously don't understand.

Richard Barber bought Rock on Ruby for a syndicate. Richard Barber owns the satellite yard in Dorset. Harry Fry trains the horses in this yard. See the connection?

Paul Nicholls didn't decide to send the animal to the satellite yard as you seem to think.

ste2010

Still can't understand the lack of respect ROR gets for winning the champion hurdle last year ...it's appalling...he made all the running with OT and he won while pulling clear...his record in Cheltenham speaks for itself. If anything there will be a closer champion hurdle this year but looks to me like it won't be any more exciting than last year unless simonsig goes, Darlan comes on a lot or grummeti comes back and blows the opposition to pieces in his first time out against decent opposition...
ROR doesn't get the respect he deserves...

Slattsy

Nicholls said this afternoon that Zarkandar has come on a lot for his first run and is in "sparking form" at home.

With the benefit of a run, he could take the beating.

A watching brief for me.