Driving On Icy Roads - Tips

The_Mask

Hi guys, as we are all aware the cold & icy weather is upon us, think it could be a good idea if we passed on any tips or ideas to fellow boardsies for driving in these conditions, i ll start with an obvious one
Drive slow & stay well back from the car in front (lesson learned from winter 2010 - twice!)

biko

If you start to slip, clutch and steer where you want the car to go. Try not to lock the wheels with the brakes, pump instead.
Pray.

saintsaltynuts

Stay in Second gear!

Anan1

The_Mask wrote: »

Hi guys, as we are all aware the cold & icy weather is upon us, think it could be a good idea if we passed on any tips or ideas to fellow boardsies for driving in these conditions, i ll start with an obvious one
Drive slow & stay well back from the car in front (lesson learned from winter 2010 - twice!)

The most obvious one is not to bring the car out on snow & ice on summer tyres!

knucklehead6

if you are not confident of your ability to drive in the conditions, STAY OFF THE ROAD!

creedp

The_Mask wrote: »

Hi guys, as we are all aware the cold & icy weather is upon us, think it could be a good idea if we passed on any tips or ideas to fellow boardsies for driving in these conditions, i ll start with an obvious one
Drive slow & stay well back from the car in front (lesson learned from winter 2010 - twice!)

I think a lot of drivers are taking this advice too much to heart .. was following a LR Freelander this morning for a number of miles doing 20 mph .. granted there was frost but the road was fine .. very glad when he pulled off or I'd still be on the road!

Anan1

creedp wrote: »

I think a lot of drivers are taking this advice too much to heart .. was following a LR Freelander this morning for a number of miles doing 20 mph .. granted there was frost but the road was fine .. very glad when he pulled off or I'd still be on the road!

I was in a Discovery on summer tyres during the bad weather two years ago and it was plenty scary at 20mph!

13spanner

If you're trying to get grip on ice keep it in the low revs. The chances of getting traction are slim enough, flooring it often gets you no where.

The_Mask

If you become stuck in snow do not accelerate & spin your wheels, clear as much snow as possible from under the wheels & then gently "rock" your car out of trouble using the accelerator

Kenny Logins

Leave the BMW at home.

MugMugs

saintsaltynuts wrote: »

Stay in Second gear!

And start in second gear.

Also, if you become stranded and thirsty, don't eat yellow snow.... Ever....

Supergurrier

Leave afew minutes early

Ronnie Beck

Beware of snow building up between your back wheels and the mudguard. (FWD car)

Happened me going down a steep hill with 6 inches of fresh snow on it. I thought the passenger had lifted the handbrake. I went sideways down the hill on a narrow road. Pure luck I didn't hit anything.

3DataModem

saintsaltynuts wrote: »

Stay in Second gear!

Not good advice IMO.

Much better to drive in a high gear on ice, but at very low revs.

The problem with a low gear is that any change in throttle immediately and rapidly changes the rotational speed of the wheels, causing slip.

In a high gear and very low revs the wheel rotation speed much more consistent, reducing slip a lot. You just need to be very gentle with break to gradually reduce speed at junctions etc.

I got this advice a few years ago, and it was a revelation. Try it.

Alanstrainor

Kenny Logins wrote: »

Leave the BMW at home.

Just add a handling pack...(few bags of cement in the boot:p)

creedp

Anan1 wrote: »

I was in a Discovery on summer tyres during the bad weather two years ago and it was plenty scary at 20mph!

Im sure it would be scary at 20mph is the conditions were actully bad .. I'd dread to see this person on the road if that was the case

corktina

High gear, low revs, no sudden steering or braking and most of all, check it is actually icy before you start creeping along...

Zubeneschamali

biko wrote: »

Try not to lock the wheels with the brakes, pump instead.

Don't pump the brakes if you have anti-lock, it won't help.

Where To

Don't brake going around a corner, decelerate before the corner and drive around it.

I know this applies to summer as well as winter, but the amount of people I see do this whilst driving in first gear full rev makes me want to cry.

ongarite

All good advice but what about non-peasants who drive automatics?

giant_midget

Don't hold trucks up on the M1 in the morning , Keep your speed constant + don't blame the truck driver for your total lack of driving skills. :pac:

650Ginge

ongarite wrote: »

All good advice but what about non-peasants who drive automatics?

Knock it into neutral just before you stop. Stops the creep function from pulling against the brakes and causing skidding as you try to stop.

Only at the very last second if it is icy. You need to stay in gear to maintain control.

In general, gentle inputs of steering, brakes and accelerator. Look ahead, react earlier and gently to potential needs to brake and steer. Slow down in advance of corner and then maintain an appropriate speed around the corner, no brakes once you turn.

Learn to control a slide in a big open space. Learn to rotate your vehicle using the emergency brake (hand brake).

Always fit the best tyres to the rear regardless of fwd or rwd.

Totally clear all windows before you drive away.

sebastianlieken

Turn off your radio completley if the road is very icy. This will help you maintain your focus and attention where it should be, also you'll be able to hear subtle differences in sounds that your tires make with the road.

4WD does NOT put you above the laws of physics on ice!!!
it doesn't matter how many wheels you can send power to, ice is freekin ice! You're actually worse off in a 4wd car on ice than a front wheel drive, at least you've a chance in catching the rear end in a front wheel drive. 4wd (jeeps) tend to be alot heavier aswell, meaning you have much more momentum. When heavy snow hits or you're on a hill, then yes 4wd is the winner. Ice however, SLOW DOWN!

High gear for driving on the flat
high gears have much smoother power delivery than a jerky higher rev low gear.

low gear for driving on the flat
Let the engine do your braking for you, going down a steep hill? knock her into 2nd (or 1st even) and only use the brakes very gently if needed at all. (most brake pressure goes to front wheels, if you lose front wheels going down hill, you're gonna have a bad time!)

Provisions
If you're driving city roads, maybe not so applicable. But country and back roads; make sure you have a warm coat in the car + high vis vest, blankets even. Common sense stuff here, think what you would need if you had a crash on a country road. The ability to stay warm, to warn others of your car (a triangle), a phone, etc.

Drive defensivly
You always should, but on ice definatly. leave lots of space between traffic and if there's some gob****e driving up your arse, pull over when safe to do so and just let him pass. if there's an icy patch ahead, he'll find it for you :cool:

furtzy

Leave your Nankang shod E39 at home

Mycroft H

It's not rocket science!

650Ginge wrote: »

In general, gentle inputs of steering, brakes and accelerator. Look ahead, react earlier and gently to potential needs to brake and steer. Slow down in advance of corner and then maintain an appropriate speed around the corner, no brakes once you turn.

Said better then I could. Take it handy is all you need to do. Stick to the high gears/low rpms. Down shift to slow.

Vicxas

Probably goes without saying, but add extra time on to your journey time so you dont feel the need to rush.

High gear, low revs, steer into a skid if you slide, no sudden movements

and for the love of god, don't brake when you're going up a fcuking hill

Voodoomelon

Don't put snow chains only on the front of a rear wheel drive car.

yop

Its not making much difference down here, these morning drives to Galway are not ideal at all.
Guy this morning ploughed past 4 cars, we were doing 50mph which was decent at 7am on the roads.

Then for the last 40 mins of the journey I had a guy sit within 5ft of my bumper, hitting the brake wasn't an option but if I did skid he was straight into the back of me.

Same thing yesterday morning, generally white van men who must have known there wasn't black ice.

seamus

bluewolf wrote: »

and for the love of god, don't brake when you're going up a fcuking hill

Nothing more frustrating than watching someone motoring up a hill and then jamming on the brakes for no good reason.

If you do need to tackle a steep hill, momentum is your biggest friend. The traction available to you drops as the gradient increases, so the gearing you're using on the flat will fail you on the hill. Give yourself the biggest run you can get at the hill so that when you're going up it you only have to apply enough power to maintain that speed, you're not trying to accelerate up the hill, because that will fail.

A relatively steep hill is the only way out of our estate, and each time it's snowed I've been stunned at the amount of people who drive up to the bottom of the hill, stop dead, then gun the engine to try get up it.

gozunda

bluewolf wrote: »

High gear, low revs, steer into a skid if you slide, no sudden movements

and for the love of god, don't brake when you're going up a fcuking hill

Can you explain 'steering into a skid'?

paddyland

The first thing that happens in Dublin when severe ice hits on a winter's evening for the first time, is that the centre city becomes cut off from the rest of the country, by the canal bridges.

Dublin is ringed by canal bridges, and each of them have a steep rise to the apex, and a traffic light at the top. Every turn of the lights, a rear wheel drive car drives up the incline, and stops on the incline at the red light. Light goes green, rear wheels spin, and polishes the road surface to glass for every following vehicle. Within half an hour or an hour, the road is impassable, and the city centre becomes gridlocked, and nobody can get out, on any artery.

For God's sake, judge your speed and the traffic lights as best you can. Ideally, try to time it that you can climb the incline without stopping. If you are going to have to stop, then stop at the bottom of the bridge, before the incline. Unfortunately, what would happen next is that the idiot behind will blow the horn, overtake, and stop on the hill, becoming stuck, and holding everyone else up. But at least, when he spins, you will hopefully be able to get moving, overtake him, and blow him a thumb to the nose as you leave him behind.

I suppose a general education campaign, or else red lights at the bottom of the bridge rather than the top, are the answer. But at least don't YOU be the cause of bringing the city of Dublin to a standstill!

Cienciano

paddyland wrote: »

The first thing that happens in Dublin when severe ice hits on a winter's evening for the first time, is that the centre city becomes cut off from the rest of the country, by the canal bridges.

Dublin is ringed by canal bridges, and each of them have a steep rise to the apex, and a traffic light at the top. Every turn of the lights, a rear wheel drive car drives up the incline, and stops on the incline at the red light. Light goes green, rear wheels spin, and polishes the road surface to glass for every following vehicle. Within half an hour or an hour, the road is impassable, and the city centre becomes gridlocked, and nobody can get out, on any artery.

For God's sake, judge your speed and the traffic lights as best you can. Ideally, try to time it that you can climb the incline without stopping. If you are going to have to stop, then stop at the bottom of the bridge, before the incline. Unfortunately, what would happen next is that the idiot behind will blow the horn, overtake, and stop on the hill, becoming stuck, and holding everyone else up. But at least, when he spins, you will hopefully be able to get moving, overtake him, and blow him a thumb to the nose as you leave him behind.

I suppose a general education campaign, or else red lights at the bottom of the bridge rather than the top, are the answer. But at least don't YOU be the cause of bringing the city of Dublin to a standstill!

Funny, I never even noticed the hills at the canal bridges till the snow a few years ago! Amazing amount of people watch a car struggle to go up a hill and they think by going up slower, they'll make it

seamus

gozunda wrote: »

Can you explain 'steering into a skid'?

If your vehicle starts to drift left, for example, there can be a natural impulse to steer more right to try and offset this leftness.

In fact, this will make the skid worse. Instead if you turn the wheel slightly to the left (or straighten it out), the skid should correct.

I actually dislike the saying "steer into the skid", because it doesn't really make it clear what that's supposed to mean. It can also cause confusion because you'd be led to believe that in the above scenario, locking the wheel hard left would correct the skid, but at speed that could just whip it back the opposite way and you'll end up fishtailing as you panic to get the car under control.

A better way of thinking about it is to point the wheels in the direction that you want your nose to go. If your rear end is sliding left then your front end is moving right, so in order to correct this, you need to point your wheels parallel to the road (slightly left from the car's centre), and this will correct the slide

Kenny Logins

gozunda wrote: »

Can you explain 'steering into a skid'?

Keep the steering wheel pointed where you want to go?

dgt

Think of others on the road. Don't get tunnel vision and forget to dip when another car approaches.

Mycroft H

dgt wrote: »

Think of others on the road. Don't get tunnel vision and forget to dip when another car approaches.

But I'll crash if I let go of the steering wheel when the roads are icy :P

gozunda

seamus wrote: »

If your vehicle starts to drift left, for example, there can be a natural impulse to steer more right to try and offset this leftness.

In fact, this will make the skid worse. Instead if you turn the wheel slightly to the left (or straighten it out), the skid should correct.

I actually dislike the saying "steer into the skid", because it doesn't really make it clear what that's supposed to mean. It can also cause confusion because you'd be led to believe that in the above scenario, locking the wheel hard left would correct the skid, but at speed that could just whip it back the opposite way and you'll end up fishtailing as you panic to get the car under control.

A better way of thinking about it is to point the wheels in the direction that you want your nose to go. If your rear end is sliding left then your front end is moving right, so in order to correct this, you need to point your wheels parallel to the road (slightly left from the car's centre), and this will correct the slide

Thanks - that makes perfect sense but lets say in the case of the vehicle sliding sideways straight at a stone wall - there is very little chance of getting the wheels aligned correctly in time to avoid a direct hit. It's also easy as you said to overcompensate and end up in an uncontrolled situation as well. I know on the UK there are companies that teach how to manoeuvre in similar conditions as part of driving training. I have never heard of similar here though...

RootX

gozunda wrote: »

I know on the UK there are companies that teach how to manoeuvre in similar conditions as part of driving training. I have never heard of similar here though...

http://www.mondello.ie/advanced_car_control/

Not sure if there are others in the republic.

fletch

RootX wrote: »

http://www.mondello.ie/advanced_car_control/

Not sure if there are others in the republic.

http://www.leinsterdrivingcampus.ie/index.php/learn-to-drive-dublin-lessons/skid-control-ireland/advanced-skill

That's interesting, I wonder would it be worth doing

kingtut

The_Mask wrote: »

Drive slow & stay well back from the car in front

That applies all year around, sick of people driving up my ass! If someone ended up rear ending them then I'd certainly also get hit from behind.

Topper Harley

biko wrote: »

Try not to lock the wheels with the brakes, pump instead.
Pray.

This is really only for cars without ABS.

Most cars nowadays have ABS and with that you slam on the brakes as hard as you can and the ABS does the pumping for you.

But anti-lock brakes shouldn't lull people into a false sense of security, caution is still very much required.

Del2005

Topper Harley wrote: »

This is really only for cars without ABS.

Most cars nowadays have ABS and with that you slam on the brakes as hard as you can and the ABS does the pumping for you.

But anti-lock brakes shouldn't lull people into a false sense of security, caution is still very much required.

ABS only works when the road surface has grip, on ice ABS doesn't offer any benefit and an experienced diver could stop shorter without it. But since most people don't even know how to use ABS, which is why the had to invent Brake Assist, they have even less chance of knowing how to pump brakes when sliding on ice.

Stheno

bluewolf wrote: »

That's interesting, I wonder would it be worth doing

I think it might be, even just for the confidence you'd get from having experienced driving in a skid pan

Ronnie Beck

Stheno wrote: »

I think it might be, even just for the confidence you'd get from having experienced driving in a skid pan

Or find an abandoned carpark for a bit of a spin. Gets you used to the car going out of control and helps you stay relaxed if it does happen in real life.

seamus

Ronnie Beck wrote: »

Or find an abandoned carpark for a bit of a spin. Gets you used to the car going out of control and helps you stay relaxed if it does happen in real life.

Any carpark that's accessible to the public is a public place for the purposes of the RTA and if a Garda catches you practicing your skids in there you could be charged with all sorts.

Ronnie Beck

seamus wrote: »

Any carpark that's accessible to the public is a public place for the purposes of the RTA and if a Garda catches you practicing your skids in there you could be charged with all sorts.

Who said anything about doing skids, I was just seeing if lidl was open;).

seamus

Not getting on a high horse, just pointing out the facts.

Ronnie Beck

seamus wrote: »

Not getting on a high horse, just pointing out the facts.

Apologies Seamus. Useful information. I'll remove the horse.

meoklmrk91

High gear, low revs as has been said. Take it handy, do everything slowly and carefully. Avoid using brakes if possible, decelerate and use the clutch to slow down, if you have to use the brakes don't jam them on again slowly and carefully. Try to remove all distractions, radios, ask people who are talking to shut up, I know this isn't possible with kids but it can be a serious help in treacherous conditions as you can keep your focus 100% on the road

Be considerate to your fellow road user and keep well back, don't use your fog lights when there is only patchy fog, they are blinding in normal to light conditions. Remember to dim when another car is coming against you and if you are driving on back country roads in thick fog and finding it difficult slow down and try using your dims instead of your heads, I find that in very heavy fog the heads are just reflected back at you and can be blinding.