Do you believe some people are genuinely bad?

cloud493

Bad as in evil. And when I say bad, I don't mean, your man that owes you a tenner or the guy that doesn't pay his child support or whatever. I mean bad as in, literally has no conscience, everything the person does is for a end that is... bad? You could say people like hitler and Stalin and what have you, but thats a matter for debate.

I do, personally.

Kylo Ren

Sure you just have to look at Voldemort.

TheMilkyPirate

cloud493 wrote: »

Bad as in evil. And when I say bad, I don't mean, your man that owes you a tenner or the guy that doesn't pay his child support or whatever. I mean bad as in, literally has no conscience, everything the person does is for a end that is... bad? You could say people like hitler and Stalin and what have you, but thats a matter for debate.

I do, personally.

I think Hitler was more deluded than anything else. In his early life he doesn't come across as a bad or evil person.

franktheplank

Yup I agree and what i've found is that it's surprising where you find them.

For example I worked for a big Irish charity and a lot of the mgmt we're the nastiest assholes imaginable.

gozunda

Ya I had a boss like that

Reckon they had undiagnosed sociopathy thou.

Evil & twisted but with a persecution complex and a vicious steak a mile wide

o1s1n

No.

Either it had something to do with their upbringing or else their brain is messed up and they don't have empathy like normal people.

Either way, it can be explained without going back to archaic religious terms like 'evil'.

tiny timy

cloud493 wrote: »

Bad as in evil. And when I say bad, I don't mean, your man that owes you a tenner or the guy that doesn't pay his child support or whatever. I mean bad as in, literally has no conscience, everything the person does is for a end that is... bad? You could say people like hitler and Stalin and what have you, but thats a matter for debate.

I do, personally.

Absolutely, i cannot go into too much details, but neighbours beside me have both my other neighbours and my life tortured. They're just horrible fcukers, and if they cannot afford or have it,wether it be goods,planning etc,theres no way you can have it. As alot of people have said many a time,jealousy is an awful thing. A good kick in the hole wouldnt go a stray

Wanderer2010

Rosemary West. Enough said.

But yes, you dont need to go too far to find people who are genuinely bad, these people may not commit murder or anything but they abuse their kids, bully others, steal money, assualt others etc etc, some people are just bad full stop and we could analyze it forever but it wouldnt change the fact that they have innate malice in them. Some people are good othere bad, thats life..

Dave0301

They won't see what they are doing as "evil" or bad and hence it is why they will do it.

A sociopath or something along those lines.

WumBuster

There are few people imo who are 100% bad or evil, i think most people would have a good side to them but do bad or dishonest things as a result of psychological disorders, personal flaws/failings/addictions and circumstances like a bad upbringing where they never learned the fundamentals of right and wrong etc..

Rasheed

Yes i do. You can diagnose a psychopath or sociopath and look for reasons why they are so bad.

I believe tat some people are just cūnts.

GalwayGuy2

Either way, it can be explained without going back to archaic religious terms like 'evil'.

Personally, I like the term "not on" better.

Stained Class

Some people are. You can see it in their faces.

Their features just appear 'bad' somehow....hard to explain.

I've only seen people like this very rarely, but I've never been wrong about them.

girl in the striped socks

Larry murphy.
That is all.

dd972

Yes, but thankfully they're in the minority, there's probably a bell curve of humanity ranging from bad to good.

the groutch

o1s1n wrote: »

No.

Either it had something to do with their upbringing or else their brain is messed up and they don't have empathy like normal people.

Either way, it can be explained without going back to archaic religious terms like 'evil'.

"Well that's absurd, people are bastard coated bastards with a bastard filling" - Dr. Bob Kelso

dd972

Stained Class wrote: »

Some people are. You can see it in their faces.

Their features just appear 'bad' somehow....hard to explain.

I've only seen people like this very rarely, but I've never been wrong about them.

know what you're saying, however, if you saw a picture of say Ian Huntley or the Yorkshire Ripper without knowing about their crimes would there be anything markedly different about them to anybody else? I doubt it.

Ruski

Nature vs nurture

Stained Class

dd972 wrote: »

know what you're saying, however, if you saw a picture of say Ian Huntley or the Yorkshire Ripper without knowing about their crimes would there be anything markedly different about them to anybody else? I doubt it.

Just going by my own personal experiance really. A photo is not really the same as actually meeting a person face to face.

People tend to give out some kind of vibe that's not just based on their physical appearence.

Odysseus

I have encountered a lot of people who have done some very nasty things; however, I have not as yet encountered anyone that you could call evil. I think there are plenty of other ways of understanding why some people carry out the deeds that they do; without having to rely on medieval concepts that add little if anything to our understanding of the human condition.

KyussBishop

You'll rarely find anyone who is just straight out evil, just for the sake of it; usually, people do or support 'evil' things, by fooling themselves into thinking that evil thing is right or justified.

It usually involves, in one way or another, being totally blind to the consequences of the actions in question; that's pretty much the hallmark of it, buckets of cognitive dissonance.

There are plenty of perfectly nice and normal people everywhere, who support things that can only be described as socio/psychopathic, but who just don't see it that way; if they looked at the problematic issue hard enough, and honestly enough, they would probably come around to the sane non-sociopathic conclusion, but there are innumerable ways people can tie their brain up in knots (or have propaganda do that for them), and come to believe utterly stupid things.


There are so many examples of this, where peoples views seem insane/sociopathic when contrasted with actual facts:
Much of the US populations views on the wars their country are engaging in (enormous numbers of people dead, yet loads of support for it).
Many peoples views on Israel/Palestine conflict, regarding civilian deaths.
Many peoples views on the economic crisis, justifying policies where the end result is lots of people dying and having their lives/future destroyed.
Many peoples views on abortion, and justifying policies that lead to needless deaths, ruined lives, dysfunctional families, etc..


I could go on (and offend a lot of people in the process through, essentially, challenging their beliefs), but it all roots back to fúcked up thinking, that is usually just plain wrong and ignores the end results of policies/actions.


The important thing is though: Almost everybody is susceptible to this kind of fúcked up thinking; sometimes entire populations can be fooled, into supporting totally 'evil' things.

If you don't want to be affected by it, use some critical thinking, and reject any/all bullshít when you see it, or you might start believing the bullshít yourself, if you hear it repeated often enough: "A Lie told often enough becomes the truth."

o1s1n

girl in the striped socks wrote: »

Larry murphy.
That is all.

He's an absolute sick twisted **** but he's not 'evil' in the true sense of the word. He's just a psychopath which can be explained by his brain makeup.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think for a second it excuses what he did (and would still like to see him hanging from a gallows) but it can at least be explained without silly notions of 'good' and 'evil' in the universe.

fryup

baraca wrote: »

I think Hitler was more deluded than anything else. In his early life he doesn't come across as a bad or evil person.

i don't know take a look at this early school photo of him..there's a look of defiance & arrogance in him ..he definitely had in his genes his father was by all accounts a right cruel pig of a man

9959

Ruski wrote: »

Nature vs nurture

A score draw I'd say.

Wanderer2010

I agree with the comments on the banality of evil, who on earth would give the following people a second glance on the street, and yet they are, respectively, a sadistic serial killer, a serial rapist and possibly a murdering monster, yet they look just like ordinary people...

Capt'n Midnight

baraca wrote: »

I think Hitler was more deluded than anything else. In his early life he doesn't come across as a bad or evil person.

You wouldn't find Hitler playing jungle music at 3 o'clock in the morning.

cloud493

Some people said you got a feeing about them though. Like with Ian Huntley.

DEFTLEFTHAND

It's proven that some people don't posses a conscience, a psychopath is incapable of feeling remorse and struggles to comprehend wrong from right. They can be perfectly normal and intelligent in everything else in life, but their wiring is off slightly. Their born like that, they can't help it and unfortunately oftentimes they can't be treated or cured.

Duggys Housemate

o1s1n wrote: »

No.

Either it had something to do with their upbringing or else their brain is messed up and they don't have empathy like normal people.

Either way, it can be explained without going back to archaic religious terms like 'evil'.

Odysseus wrote: »

I have encountered a lot of people who have done some very nasty things; however, I have not as yet encountered anyone that you could call evil. I think there are plenty of other ways of understanding why some people carry out the deeds that they do; without having to rely on medieval concepts that add little if anything to our understanding of the human condition.

This is tiresome.

The title says Bad, not Evil. Although the OP did mention evil - which has some religious connotations, but not not always - the title remains. Are people genuinely bad?

The evidence is yes. Some people are born psychopaths, and have no sense of human emotion, or normal empathy, or morality. Its not common, but far from being unknown - about 1 percent of the population. And a much higher percent of the "elites", i.e. CEOs, top politicians, bankers, BBC DJ's etc.

Even there the population of true psychos - though higher - is not more than five percent.

In fact psychopaths often seek positions of power, are charming, and famous. Hitler was definitely one. Saville was one. Common enough.

charlemont

First time I ever saw Gary Campion I instinctively knew he was an evil bastard, I had never heard of him before either but I wasn't shocked to later read about him doing murders.

So yes I think some people are genuinely bad.

Madam_X

I don't know. I hate when people dismiss the "f'ucked up life or mental deficiency" reasoning rather than someone just being bad. Why the dismissal of it? Is it because that seems to be a way of excusing them? Because it isn't - it's just explaining, nothing more. People can namecheck Larry Murphy and Rose West all they like, but who's to say those people aren't mentally ill/messed up from their past, thus leading to their atrocities?

Then again though, I don't know for certain that there aren't people who are simply evil, but I'd doubt it - it seems unlikely there's nothing wrong with the brains of such people. No amount of "In my opinion there's evil" makes it a definite reality. We simply don't know. This one even eludes psychiatrists.

grizzly

Nothing is created in a vacuum – I think there was an evolutionary need for psychopaths. People that could kill without remorse. As long as humanity divides it's self into strongly defined tribes: civilised v savages/capitalists v communists/Christian v Islamic we'll have a need for psychopath types. Just look at the heros of old.

Duggys Housemate

Madam_X wrote: »

I don't know. I hate when people dismiss the "f'ucked up life or mental deficiency" reasoning rather than someone just being bad. Why the dismissal of it? Is it because that seems to be a way of excusing them? Because it isn't - it's just explaining, nothing more. People can namecheck Larry Murphy and Rose West all they like, but who's to say those people aren't mentally ill/messed up from their past, thus leading to their atrocities?

Then again though, I don't know for certain that there aren't people who are simply evil, but I'd doubt it - it seems unlikely there's nothing wrong with the brains of such people. No amount of "In my opinion there's evil" makes it a definite reality. We simply don't know. This one even eludes psychiatrists.

no it doesn't. A psychopath can be diagnosed fairly easily.

MadYaker

This is a very very deep question.

Madam_X

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

no it doesn't. A psychopath can be diagnosed fairly easily.

And they have a neurological abnormality going on - they're not just "bad" and no mental issues.

Duggys Housemate

Madam_X wrote: »

And they have a neurological abnormality going on - they're not just "bad" and no mental issues.

That's just semantics.

KyussBishop

Even psychopaths/sociopaths/peadophiles (on the last point, people with the mental illness, not people who act on it) are capable of going through life without ever harming anyone, while having a positive role in society, so even that doesn't make them inherently bad.

Irish Steve

Yes, and it's scary how many of them manage to get into positions where they can hurt others, mentally, or psychologically, or in some other way.

Also worrying how many of them get to be things like union reps, where they can do even more damage and get recognition for it.

Some middle managers are the same, total sh1ts to work for, and never have the courage to say no to senior management, regardless of how absurd their demands are.

lucky frank lives

My willie is a bad bad boy, very bad boy he justs wants to shove his head where it's not wanted











THE DEAD LIVES FOKKERS THE DEAD HAS RISEN

Madam_X

cloud493 wrote: »

Some people said you got a feeing about them though. Like with Ian Huntley.

I didn't see anything untoward about him when he spoke to reporters before being arrested.

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

That's just semantics.

It's not at all. Their brain function is not normal so theyre not balanced people. I'm not saying there aren't perfectly sane and stable people who are still capable of dreadful things though, because I don't know. It seems unlikely though IMO.

WatchWolf

fryup

Madam_X wrote: »

And they have a neurological abnormality going on - they're not just "bad" and no mental issues.

there's an element of narcissism in the make up as well...that the world evolves around them....this could be brought on in childhood....as in the case of Hitler, his mother use to dote over him, mainly due to the fact that she had three mis-carriages previous to giving birth to him

o1s1n

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

The title says Bad, not Evil. Although the OP did mention evil - which has some religious connotations, but not not always - the title remains. Are people genuinely bad?

Ah okay, so I'm only allowed to work from a thread title, not the content - got ya.



Here's the OP's opening line in case you missed it -

cloud493 wrote: »

Bad as in evil. .

So we are talking about evil here - which is not the same as discussing whether or not psychopaths exist. (which they clearly do)

Duggys Housemate

Madam_X wrote: »

I didn't see anything untoward about him when he spoke to reporters before being arrested.

It's not at all. Their brain function is not normal so theyre not balanced people. I'm not saying there aren't perfectly sane and stable people who are still capable of dreadful things though, because I don't know. It seems unlikely though IMO.

that is, bad.

Duggys Housemate

o1s1n wrote: »

Ah okay, so I'm only allowed to work from a thread title, not the content - got ya.



Here's the OP's opening line in case you missed it -



So we are talking about evil here - which is not the same as discussing whether or not psychopaths exist. (which they clearly do)

Fair enough on your comment. I think Madame_x is just being semantic.

fryup

lucky frank lives wrote: »

My willie is a bad bad boy, very bad boy he justs wants to shove his head where it's not wanted

is that you Jimmy ??

Odysseus

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

It's proven that some people don't posses a conscience, a psychopath is incapable of feeling remorse and struggles to comprehend wrong from right. They can be perfectly normal and intelligent in everything else in life, but their wiring is off slightly. Their born like that, they can't help it and unfortunately oftentimes they can't be treated or cured.

However, that doesn't mean they will commit acts which we would some define define as evil, a person who may be classed as a psychopath may find themselves working as an high flying manager and may never in the type of acts people refer to when they use the concept "evil"

lucky frank lives

fryup wrote: »

is that you Jimmy ??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ns3M1Sj6x4o

Madam_X

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

Fair enough on your comment. I think Madame_x is just being semantic.

Why? Genuinely? Psychopaths/sociopaths are not stable people and there is thus a mental/neurological reason for their tendencies; they're not simply bad folks with nothing wrong with their brains. They are incapable of empathy - not simply because they're bastards apropos nothing, but because they're wired abnormally. There's a big enough distinction - it's not mere semantics.

Liamario

There is no such thing as good and evil- in the sense that you one or the other.
It's a man made, ignorant term to explain the behaviours of individuals when they can't understand it in any other way.
People are pretty much blank canvases when they are born and outside influences from the world around them; life experience etc... as well as mental illness lead them to do acts which society dictates to be good or bad.
'Evil' acts today can be explained via science- psychological and medical testing.

Slavery a few hundred years ago wasn't considered evil, now it is.

Capt'n Midnight

grizzly wrote: »

Nothing is created in a vacuum – I think there was an evolutionary need for psychopaths. People that could kill without remorse. As long as humanity divides it's self into strongly defined tribes: civilised v savages/capitalists v communists/Christian v Islamic we'll have a need for psychopath types. Just look at the heros of old.

I think you'll find that it's usually of direct benefit to the psychopath rather than the group they were in. Otherwise it would be far more prevalent.

Like mimics and cheaters being a psychopath is of more benefit when most others aren't like you.



During WWII the Eastern Front and Japanese occupations has shown us that large numbers of people can be trained to kill without remorse. The Romans used the punishment of decimation (killing one in ten) to brutalise their own soldiers to kill.