When Ireland was part of the UK, were Irish people also British? (Poll attached)

MakeEmLaugh

There are many heated arguments on Boards.ie and other online forums on whether the citizens of Northern Ireland are British or Irish, or both.

Some, rather simplistically, say that Protestants are British and Catholics are Irish; this leaves out other religions, and those who do not belong to any religion.

Some also say that those who desire unity with the Republic are Irish, and those who don't are British. If this is true, then about 84 per cent of the overall population of Northern Ireland are not Irish, as only 16 per cent said they wanted a united Ireland in a survey conducted by Ark, a joint project by Queen’s University and the University of Ulster, for the Northern Ireland Social and Political Archive last year.

For those who adamantly claim that all the citizens of Northern Ireland are British, it begs the question, were the citizens of Ireland British until 1922, when the Irish Free State came into existence (exactly 90 years ago this week, by the way)? After all, Dublin had the same constituent place within the United Kingdom as Belfast has now, and the Union flag flew over government buildings.

Perhaps they were British, but Irish as well, the way that Welsh people are both British and Welsh. Perhaps they were not British, and Ireland's seceding from the United Kingdom in 1922 is validation of this; Irish people were never fully integrated into the British system, and therefore cannot be considered British.

orestes

Oh for fukks sake.

Hidalgo

MakeEmLaugh wrote: »

Some, rather simplistically, say that Protestants are British and Catholics are Irish; this leaves out other religions, and those who do not belong to any religion.

To call the above simplistic is just being too simplistic.
Going on that logic Parnell and Wolfe Tone were British.

Agricola

You have lived up to your name OP!

chughes

As I understand it, the Act of Union in 1800 created a political entity called the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland.

This would suggest to me that, technically, Irish people were not British. I do, however, recognise the fact that large numbers of people would have indentified themselves as British.

harney

Agricola wrote: »

You have lived up to your name OP!

I scrolled back up but the OP isn't called retard, are you sure you posted on the correct thread?

MakeEmLaugh

harney wrote: »

I scrolled back up but the OP isn't called retard, are you sure you posted on the correct thread?

Yeah, it was taken. I assume you had the same problem with the username 'cunt'?

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

GRMA

enough of the sh!te threads.


Even British people didnt regard the Irish as being British.

A cursory examination of commons debates, cabinet meetings, English media, especially the Times, during the nineteenth century confirms my statement above.

Furious_George

get a fuppn life

Chuck Stone

British technically? Probably.

British by choice? No.

Spiritual

MakeEmLaugh wrote: »

When Ireland was part of the UK, were Irish people also British? (Poll attached)


Irish people were never fully integrated into the British system, and therefore cannot be considered British.

Asked and answered by yourself.

MakeEmLaugh

Chuck Stone wrote: »

British by choice? No.

Can anyone choose their nationality? Isn't that a question of where they are born and raised?

dttq

Nobody on the island of Ireland was or is British, that term applies to people on the island of Britain, aka. England, Scotland and Wales and even at that, the Scots and Welsh never use the term. The hint was/ is in the name.

The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland

The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

Fr_Dougal

Like it or not, yes we were British subjects.

darrcow

deep down all irish people want to be british

magick

Not another UK thread

northernpower

actually the op makes a good point in relation to people like myself that were born in the north and are denied our irishness by some. our circumstance is comparable to people born on the island before the POI act. so are Michael Collins, Michael cusack and Wolfe tone all British.

Scruffles

Chuck Stone wrote: »

British technically? Probably.

British by choice? No.

^its the same as many of us born in england-hate being called british,from what see it tends to be elderly people who have strong ties to 'britain' and royalty,but whenever theres a public holiday due to royal births/weddings it seems a whole load of hypocrites becomes a 'brit' and royal fan as its an excuse to get a day of their work and get pissed.

Sunnyisland

Its to near christmas for this ****e, do you not know OP the world is ending on the 20th ? of december ????

grenache

You're either Irish OR British, you cannot be both. You can be British of Irish extraction but you'd still be British.

Born on the island of Ireland = Irish.
Born on the island of Britain = British.

Likewise you can be German or French , but not both. By the OP's reckoning, if a person was born in the 1940s in Occupied France, he could be considered German.

Absolute rubbish.

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

Like it or not, yes we were British subjects.

there's quite a difference between being "British subjects" and actually being "British".

Both the Irish and Indians were British subjects, but neither were ethnically or culturally British.

john why

realies wrote: »

Its to near christmas for this ****e, do you not know OP the world is ending on the 20th ? of december ????

I hope not I get payed on the 21st

Sound of Silence

What's with the threads, MakeEmLaugh?

Two of these threads in one day?

summerskin

Stupid thread.

Irish people are Irish and always have been.

Just like I'm English

karma_

Sound of Silence wrote: »

What's with the threads, MakeEmLaugh?

Two of these threads in one day?

Obsession?

Sunnyisland

Sound of Silence wrote: »

What's with the threads, MakeEmLaugh?

Two of these threads in one day?

karma_ wrote: »

Obsession?

****in english





sorry summerskin :)

Hilly Bill

dttq wrote: »

Nobody on the island of Ireland was or is British, that term applies to people on the island of Britain, aka. England, Scotland and Wales and even at that, the Scots and Welsh never use the term. The hint was/ is in the name.

The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland

The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

Thats not true.

Anyone

Whats with all the British threads lately? Jesus Christ........put that fecking flag back up.....

Andy-Pandy

My fathers family considered themselves British, and after generations of them served in the armed forces they where probably right.

Peregrine

Not this ****e again...

Ireland is an island

Britain is also an island


Republic of Ireland is a country

England is a country that is part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

Scotland is a country that is part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

Wales is a country that is part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

Northern is a country that is part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

Britain is not a country

Irish people are not British, nor were they ever were. Irish people were about as British as they were Spanish.
They were subjects of the British rule at one point of course but they were Irish

spankysue

I'm not taking part in this poll because I think it's a pointless question....and there's no Atari Jaguar option :mad:

gurramok

You're a strange fellow OP starting all these British-Irish related threads with no direct definitive answers from yourself on your own questions(lots of "perhaps" mentioned) in your OP.

There is no direct answer of a definitive opinion in your other thread either.

MakeEmLaugh wrote:

A straightforward question. Does the term 'British Isles', referring to the whole islands of Ireland and Britain, bother you?

Also, is there any term you would prefer to 'British Isles', or that you think would be more appropriate?

Here's you taking the piss starting a NI thread in AH before http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=81026441&postcount=1

Are you here to wind us up, merchant?

DEFTLEFTHAND

Irish people who's parents were born pre treaty can claim a British passport.

Peregrine

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Irish people who's parents were born pre treaty can claim a British passport.

Your point?

I'm sure Indians born before 1947 and people born in other former Commonwealth countries around Asia and Africa can claim British citizenship and pass it down one generation, are they British too?

MakeEmLaugh

grenache wrote: »

Both the Irish and Indians were British subjects, but neither were ethnically or culturally British.

You're getting into dangerous territory there. What exactly does one have to be to be 'ethnically British'?

DEFTLEFTHAND

Nimrod 7 wrote: »

Your point?

I'm sure Indians born before 1947 and people born in other former Commonwealth countries around Asia and Africa can claim British citizenship and pass it down one generation, are they British too?

I'm just pointing out that certain people born and bred in the Republic could claim a British passport if they wanted to. I'm providing information, not debating on what makes one British, that's an argument that just loops round and round.

HemlockOption

Nimrod 7 wrote: »

Your point?

I'm sure Indians born before 1947 and people born in other former Commonwealth countries around Asia and Africa can claim British citizenship and pass it down one generation, are they British too?

The point is that it's painfully clear now that ROI is a failed entity and those who can claim British citizenship might want to

MakeEmLaugh

gurramok wrote: »

You're a strange fellow OP starting all these British-Irish related threads with no direct definitive answers from yourself on your own questions(lots of "perhaps" mentioned) in your OP.

There is no direct answer of a definitive opinion in your other thread either.


Here's you taking the piss starting a NI thread in AH before http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=81026441&postcount=1

Are you here to wind us up, merchant?

Well I'm somewhat flattered my opinion matters so much to you, but I can't say the feeling is mutual.

I voted in this poll. If you want to know which answer I chose, why not ask me?

who the fug

I will refer you back to Einstein and the bit of EM ****e I understand time is relative to where you where understanding it


As a native African or Boer later on, them redcoats/Khakis bastards were all British, so outside the four home nations we were all British, inside I am still clobbering Kerry men

franktheplank

And I am whatever I say I am.
If I wasn't then why would I say I am.

Eminem, true dat bro.

FatherTed

If Ireland was part of the UK of course you'd be British, the head of state would be the Queen etc. Don't pretend it wouldn't be any other way. Thank goodness it will never be though I'm sure by the next century, Ireland will be part of a European state anyway.

jimmycrackcorm

We were as much British as the Dutch, French, Belgians, Russians and every other country occupied in WW2 was German.

gurramok

MakeEmLaugh wrote: »

Well I'm somewhat flattered my opinion matters so much to you, but I can't say the feeling is mutual.

I voted in this poll. If you want to know which answer I chose, why not ask me?

What is your opinion then? (you should of said this in your opening post)

who the fug

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

We were as much British as the Dutch, French, Belgians, Russians and every other country occupied in WW2 was German.

Complete and utter twaddle

MakeEmLaugh

gurramok wrote: »

What is your opinion then? (you should of said this in your opening post)

Why influence other people's opinions in a thread I started? I voted 'No'.

gurramok

MakeEmLaugh wrote: »

Why influence other people's opinions in a thread I started? I voted 'No'.

Huh? Give your opinion, shy are we?

who the fug

MakeEmLaugh wrote: »

Why influence other people's opinions in a thread I started? I voted 'No'.

so you just stir the pot , that other people make

Celebrity chef or what

Peregrine

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

I'm just pointing out that certain people born and bred in the Republic could claim a British passport if they wanted to. I'm providing information, not debating on what makes one British, that's an argument that just loops round and round.

Ah sorry
I'm not denying that there are many people in Ireland eligible for British passports

But the thing is, being a British citizen and being British are just different. You can be Irish and be a British citizen

Being British means being from Britain i.e. England, Scotland, Wales.
Being a British citizen means being from the UK, British overseas territories, former Commonwealth citizens etc

So Irish people were never British simply because Ireland wasn't in Britain, whether they ruled Ireland or not is a diffferent matter. But they did, that made the Irish people that lived back then British citizens (did it? They weren't exactly fair) or we'll say British subjects

MakeEmLaugh

gurramok wrote: »

Huh? Give your opinion, shy are we?

Unable to read? I'll say it again.

I. Voted. No.

bodice ripper

When Ireland was part of the UK, how many angels could stand on the head of a pin?

Seriously, if you were in any way secure about your identity as an Irish person, this kind of issue is IRRELEVANT. The question clearly is whether you feel Irish now.

gurramok

MakeEmLaugh wrote: »

Unable to read? I'll say it again.

I. Voted. No.

You never said that in your original post. Any chance why you voted no?