Property Tax - What do you get for this tax

northknife

Without any replies from smartarses , what exactly do you get for paying the property tax.
I know that if you pay motor tax that this is supposedly for the roads that we drive on and income tax pays for all the services we get from our political representatives (local and national)
Water charges(tax) will be for water,we already pax taxes on the services we get(esb,eircom,etc)

So what the fúck are we paying for if and when we pay the property tax?

mp22

The hard working lads who sweep the streets.

shanered

We get to pay off our huge debt to bondholders!
:):cool::pac::p

Spiritual

You get shafted by lies about where the money is going.

girl in the striped socks

You get the privilege of knowing some bankers & property developers will have a better nights sleep than a lot of other people because they don't have to shoulder the debt they created.

bbam

motor tax doesn't pay for the roads.. all motor tax goes into central funds and becomes part of the tax take, its been like this since they stopped calling it "road tax"..

We live in the country so feel we get little for the proposed property tax...
I suppose the big things we use regularly that would be funded are our local library and playgrounds, all high quality.. I suppose it will fund the fire service?

But its really a case that the property tax and whatever allocation comes from government should be used to fund our local county area.. roads,streets, sewage for those lucky to be connected, playgrounds, libraries.. gritting in winter, probably a host of stuff we don't think of..

bmaxi

What I haven't succeeded in getting an answer to is why people like myself, who live in managed estates with no local authority services, have to pay the same as those who don't.

joydivision

We get to own property .

keith16

bmaxi wrote: »

What I haven't succeeded in getting an answer to is why people like myself, who live in managed estates with no local authority services, have to pay the same as those who don't.

Because it's just a name. You don't really get anything for it.

Victor

bbam wrote: »

motor tax doesn't pay for the roads.. all motor tax goes into central funds and becomes part of the tax take, its been like this since they stopped calling it "road tax"..

Motor tax goes to the Local Government Fund.

Fr_Dougal

Fools and their money are easy parted.

girl in the striped socks

bmaxi wrote: »

What I haven't succeeded in getting an answer to is why people like myself, who live in managed estates with no local authority services, have to pay the same as those who don't.

Where does your water come from? Or where does your sewerage go? Do you have street lights?

Howjoe1

bmaxi wrote: »

What I haven't succeeded in getting an answer to is why people like myself, who live in managed estates with no local authority services, have to pay the same as those who don't.

I was thinking the same. Maybe the Local Authorities will take over the grass cutting etc and save me having an additional cost to a Residence Association.

Since Revenue are going to be banging on our doors, perhaps they will clarify what services we will get for our money.

Surely all the money is not going to unsecured Bond Holders:rolleyes:

keith16

girl in the striped socks wrote: »

Where does your water come from? Or where does your sewerage go? Do you have street lights?

Water comes from the sky, sewerage goes away, and I did try to rob a street light once, but other than that I don't have any street lights.

Spiritual

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

Fools and their money are easy parted.

Any advise for an old fool on ways to avoid paying?

Ghandee

No-one is under any obligation to pay this!

What are they gonna do? Jail us all?

mikom

girl in the striped socks wrote: »

Where does your water come from?

Private scheme.

girl in the striped socks wrote: »

Or where does your sewerage go?

Private septic tank

girl in the striped socks wrote: »

Do you have street lights?

No.


Any more questions city slicker?

northknife

bbam wrote: »

motor tax doesn't pay for the roads.. all motor tax goes into central funds and becomes part of the tax take, its been like this since they stopped calling it "road tax"..

We live in the country so feel we get little for the proposed property tax...
I suppose the big things we use regularly that would be funded are our local library and playgrounds, all high quality.. I suppose it will fund the fire service?

But its really a case that the property tax and whatever allocation comes from government should be used to fund our local county area.. roads,streets, sewage for those lucky to be connected, playgrounds, libraries.. gritting in winter, probably a host of stuff we don't think of..

So if you avail of none of these services or there are none in your area could you possibly take a case to the European court of human rights on the grounds of discrimination.:)

girl in the striped socks

mikom wrote: »

Private scheme.



Private septic tank



No.

I was asking the OP because he said he lived in an estate.

northknife

[QUOTE=girl in the striped socks;82127396]I was asking the OP because he said he lived in an estate.[/QUOTE]

I DID ? :eek:

northknife wrote: »

Without any replies from smartarses , what exactly do you get for paying the property tax.
I know that if you pay motor tax that this is supposedly for the roads that we drive on and income tax pays for all the services we get from our political representatives (local and national)
Water charges(tax) will be for water,we already pax taxes on the services we get(esb,eircom,etc)

So what the fúck are we paying for if and when we pay the property tax?

Sorry I dont live in an estate but if I did and got all the services like paths,lighting etc I would not feel too bad paying a property tax but as it stands they (the government and revenue) can go and fook themselves.:mad:

Ghandee

Victor wrote: »

Motor tax goes to the Local Government Fund.

As will the property tax, to be divided by govt as they see fit.

While were on that subject, I'd like to remind you what our finance minister said last week....

FINANCE Minister Michael Noonan has said he is unable to "categorically" deny that taxpayers' money was used to prop up pensions of "disgraced senior bankers" in State-owned banks AIB and IBRC (the former Anglo Irish Bank).

Only a week after his department strongly insisted that no State money went into funding the €1.1bn AIB pension bailout, Mr Noonan has conceded that it is very likely that taxpayers' money has "indirectly" been used to prop up pension funds in State-covered and State-owned banks.

The revelation has brought stinging criticism from within his own party and from the opposition, which has called on the minister to make a full disclosure as to the extent of how taxpayers' money has been used.

http://www.ifg.ie/content/media-and-news/industry-news/12-11-18/Banker_pensions_are_indirectly_funded_by_taxes.aspx

Mull over that while you think about paying a tax for the upkeep of bondholders and bankers local services!


We live in a beautiful wee country, its just a fcuking pity that its rotten to the core.:mad:

girl in the striped socks

northknife wrote: »

[QUOTE=girl in the striped socks;82127396]I was asking the OP because he said he lived in an estate.

I DID ? :eek:




Sorry I dont live in an estate but if I did and got all the services like paths,lighting etc I would not feel too bad paying a property tax but as it stands they (the government and revenue) can go and fook themselves.:mad:[/Quote]
God your right you didn't say it! Sorry about that. I read someone else's post & mixed it up with your one.

Yeah I hear you. When I get services provided then ill pay. I didn't spend a fortune putting in water, a septic tank etc so I can get shafted on yet another tax.
I pay enough in taxes as it is. This isn't a dig at anyone on social welfare but I know some people getting it & they seem to have a better lifestyle than I do even though I'm working full time in a good job. I'm beginning to wonder is working all its cracked up to be & it's all these extra taxes that have me pissed off about everything.
From what I can see the more you do in this country then the more likely you are to get targeted.

bbam

girl in the striped socks wrote: »

Where does your water come from?

My own well that I paid a few thousand to bore and I pay to pump the water and maintain it.

girl in the striped socks wrote: »

where does your sewerage go?

into my own sewrage plant I paid €5k for and pay for its running and maintenance, I also deal with all problems.

girl in the striped socks wrote: »

Do you have street lights?

NO


I also paid a "development levi" for my single house of €6k and a bunch of stamp duty on my site purchase..

Fr_Dougal

Spiritual wrote: »

Any advise for an old fool on ways to avoid paying?

Don't register!

I'll let you know how I get on, fight da powah!

chinwag

Seems they are planning to get tougher with the natives than they do with the troika . . .

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/1207/new-property-tax-bill-gives-revenue-more-powers-business.html

dxhound2005

A misconception which I noticed on the other thread was that property taxes in other countries pay for all the services like water bins etc. Taking England/Wales as an example they have separate water charges but as well as that about 75% of the money for bins etc comes to the councils from central government grants. Which are derived from PAYE, VAT etc. If households had to fund the full expenditure their average property tax would probably be around £5000 a year.

After the abolition of property tax here councils had to depend on central government grants to a much greater extent and the conflicting demands for national (Social Welfare etc) as against local expenditure eventually led to the privatisation of the bins. The HHC receipts were ringfenced into the Local Government Fund meaning that they could not go to bankers salaries but if PAYE was used for this purpose then that left less for local government grants. An example of what is provided by local government was shown when Clare Co Co tried to link the processing of third level grant applications to compliance with the law.

Tin Foil Hat

northknife wrote: »

Without any replies from smartarses , what exactly do you get for paying the property tax.
I know that if you pay motor tax that this is supposedly for the roads that we drive on and income tax pays for all the services we get from our political representatives (local and national)
Water charges(tax) will be for water,we already pax taxes on the services we get(esb,eircom,etc)

So what the fúck are we paying for if and when we pay the property tax?

You're paying for approximately 1/250 of the €92k salary of the position that Eamonn Gilmore's wife had invented for her when her previous job ceased to exist. Because Eamonn Gilmore's wife is entitled to either a massive salary or a massive pension for the rest of her days. And if 250 people have to hand over hundreds of euros, whether they can afford to or not, to pay it - then so be it.
You are paying for the new aristocracy.

snubbleste

You get a chance to elect one(or more) of 1,626 councillors to the 29 county councils, 5 city councils, 5 borough councils & 75 town councils, rewarding them each with a salary of minimum €16,724 + extras.
You also fund 34 odd council managers (each getting minimum €130k+) and their various assorted director of services (min €90k+), engineers, law agents, chief fire officers... http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/organisations-are-top-heavy-with-high-earners-189877.html
You may also get some services.

barrackali

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

Don't register!

I'll let you know how I get on, fight da powah!

You do know they will deduct the money at source from whatever source of income you have.

There is no way of avoiding this tax...hell even the dead will be paying 4 it.

Property tax is here to stay, get used to it.

Sam Kade

Ghandee wrote: »

No-one is under any obligation to pay this!

What are they gonna do? Jail us all?

Next year the revenue will be responsible for collecting it, they can send in the bailiffs to collect directly off you if you refuse to pay. If you didn't pay this year €200 will be added to next years bill. You can use the deferred payment if you are under a certain income up to 2017 but they will charge for 4 years + 4% interest. If they don't get paid the charge will go on your house whenever it is sold/transferred + penalty's and interest, so they will be getting most of what your house is worth if it drags on for many years.

Bruthal

bbam wrote: »

motor tax doesn't pay for the roads.. all motor tax goes into central funds and becomes part of the tax take, its been like this since they stopped calling it "road tax"..

Roads still need maintenance. Motor tax money goes in, maintenance money comes out.

Ghandee

Sam Kade wrote: »

Next year the revenue will be responsible for collecting it, they can send in the bailiffs to collect directly off you if you refuse to pay. If you didn't pay this year €200 will be added to next years bill. You can use the deferred payment if you are under a certain income up to 2017 but they will charge for 4 years + 4% interest. If they don't get paid the charge will go on your house whenever it is sold/transferred + penalty's and interest, so they will be getting most of what your house is worth if it drags on for many years.

That all sounds good,.


That is until the next general election rolls round, and the new govt voted in (on the promise of) abolishes a property tax and any penalties/fines linked to it.

How certain are any of us that the current govt will not fall some time next year?

Wicklowrider

Your taxes will pay for this kind of thing before it will pay for fire services etc

http://newsfeed.eastcoast.fm/2012/09/wicklow-councillor-defends-trip-to-abu.html

tayto lover

Sam Kade wrote: »

Next year the revenue will be responsible for collecting it, they can send in the bailiffs to collect directly off you if you refuse to pay. If you didn't pay this year €200 will be added to next years bill. You can use the deferred payment if you are under a certain income up to 2017 but they will charge for 4 years + 4% interest. If they don't get paid the charge will go on your house whenever it is sold/transferred + penalty's and interest, so they will be getting most of what your house is worth if it drags on for many years.

Isn't that the way Cromwell treated us too ?

Hilly Bill

What does the Universal social charge go on then?

Sam Kade

Ghandee wrote: »

That all sounds good,.


That is until the next general election rolls round, and the new govt voted in (on the promise of) abolishes a property tax and any penalties/fines linked to it.

How certain are any of us that the current govt will not fall some time next year?

It's a no win no win situation :mad:

RandomName2

northknife wrote: »

So what the fúck are we paying for if and when we pay the property tax?

To stay out of prison. :pac:

And to pay off the national debt.

dxhound2005

Hilly Bill wrote: »

What does the Universal social charge go on then?

Probably whatever the Income Levy and the Health Levy went on. Both of these were in place when the present government took power and they decided to consolidate them under the one heading USC. In the old days we used to have the "Stamp" and income tax rates of 35%, 48% and 60% but no USC.

tayto lover

Ghandee wrote: »

That all sounds good,.


That is until the next general election rolls round, and the new govt voted in (on the promise of) abolishes a property tax and any penalties/fines linked to it.

How certain are any of us that the current govt will not fall some time next year?

Fcuk me Ghandee if I thought that FF would get back in on a promise to get rid of it i'd nearly run out tomorrow and pay it.

bmaxi

girl in the striped socks wrote: »

Where does your water come from? Or where does your sewerage go? Do you have street lights?

Well, in our management fees we pay for street lighting, road maintenance, water and sewage pipe maintenance, grounds maintenance? What do you pay for?

Ghandee

bmaxi wrote: »

Well, in our management fees we pay for street lighting, road maintenance, water and sewage pipe maintenance, grounds maintenance? What do you pay for?

I think thegirlinthestripedsocks actually opposes a property tax and she's been misinterpreted on this thread.

girl in the striped socks

bmaxi wrote: »

Well, in our management fees we pay for street lighting, road maintenance, water and sewage pipe maintenance, grounds maintenance? What do you pay for?

I don't have street lighting. The roads are crap.
Water & septic tank are paid for by myself.

I thought housing estates were the responsibility of the council in relation to lighting, sewerage, water etc. I could easily have made that up too! But for some reason I have that in my head.

And if you pay management fees then why should you pay again? It makes no sense whatsoever! Typical idiotic reasoning from the clowns in the dail.

steamengine

northknife wrote: »

Without any replies from smartarses , what exactly do you get for paying the property tax.
I know that if you pay motor tax that this is supposedly for the roads that we drive on and income tax pays for all the services we get from our political representatives (local and national)
Water charges(tax) will be for water,we already pax taxes on the services we get(esb,eircom,etc)

So what the fúck are we paying for if and when we pay the property tax?

Nothing - It's a revenue raising measure , and it was mentioned that the rate may vary - upwards no doubt - further on down the line by the respective councils according to their needs. AFAICS it's just the old rates system dressed up differently !!!

bmaxi

girl in the striped socks wrote: »

I don't have street lighting. The roads are crap.
Water & septic tank are paid for by myself.

I thought housing estates were the responsibility of the council in relation to lighting, sewerage, water etc. I could easily have made that up too! But for some reason I have that in my head.

And if you pay management fees then why should you pay again? It makes no sense whatsoever! Typical idiotic reasoning from the clowns in the dail.

In the 1990s/early 2000s County Councils made it a condition for granting planning permission that estates were managed by a Management Company. Estates built before then are the responsibility of the local authorities and in theory managed estates should, on completion, be taken in charge by local authorities but they continually move the goalposts.

Ghost Buster

northknife wrote: »

Without any replies from smartarses , what exactly do you get for paying the property tax.
I know that if you pay motor tax that this is supposedly for the roads that we drive on and income tax pays for all the services we get from our political representatives (local and national)
Water charges(tax) will be for water,we already pax taxes on the services we get(esb,eircom,etc)

So what the fúck are we paying for if and when we pay the property tax?

The same stuff that renters get but they dont have to pay..

girl in the striped socks

bmaxi wrote: »

In the 1990s/early 2000s County Councils made it a condition for granting planning permission that estates were managed by a Management Company. Estates built before then are the responsibility of the local authorities and in theory managed estates should, on completion, be taken in charge by local authorities but they continually move the goalposts.

Thanks for the explanation.

northknife

northknife wrote: »

Without any replies from smartarses , what exactly do you get for paying the property tax.
I know that if you pay motor tax that this is supposedly for the roads that we drive on and income tax pays for all the services we get from our political representatives (local and national)
Water charges(tax) will be for water,we already pax taxes on the services we get(esb,eircom,etc)

So what the fúck are we paying for if and when we pay the property tax?

Public lighting, in the country as well as towns and cities. Public libraries, Civic offices (town Mayor, county and town council offices,planning etc), Sewage other than (private septic tanks), footpaths, cycleways, street cleaning, public rubbish bins,
That's my understanding anyway.

Ghost Buster

Deleted User wrote: »

Public lighting, in the country as well as towns and cities. Public libraries, Civic offices (town Mayor, county and town council offices,planning etc), Sewage other than (private septic tanks), footpaths, cycleways, street cleaning, public rubbish bins,
That's my understanding anyway.

As I said.Stuff that renters use but dont have to pay for

guinness4ever

Yeh, I'm looking to avoid it as well. I think we should wait and see what the independent TD's are doing??

LostBoy101

Hilly Bill wrote: »

What does the Universal social charge go on then?

It's just another way to gain revenue for the government.

dxhound2005

guinness4ever wrote: »

Yeh, I'm looking to avoid it as well. I think we should wait and see what the independent TD's are doing??

I will be awaiting the response of the Independents with interest also. I have read that one of the provisions of the LTP legislation will be that persons who require a tax clearance certificate will not be able to obtain one if they are in default of the tax. This regulation applies to TD's but the present HHC legislation does not deny certificates to defaulters. So we shall see if that changes their present bizarre stance as elected lawmakers breaking the law and encouraging others to do so as well.

http://www.revenue.ie/en/business/running/tax-clearance.html

The requirement to produce a Tax Clearance Certificate usually arises in the context of a person seeking State money (e.g. Government contracts, grants) or obtaining licences (e.g. excise licence, road transport licence) but can also arise in other cases (e.g. the Standards in Public Office Act, 2001 recently applied tax clearance requirements to persons elected to the Dail or Seanad, judicial appointees and senior office appointees). Apart from situations where a person is legally required to produce a Tax Clearance Certificate, Revenue is also prepared to issue a Certificate to any customer whose tax affairs are in order.