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Mod Note: See Post #71 Nurse in Kate radio prank takes her own life

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    #32
    P. Breathnach
    Registered Users Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    goose2005 wrote: »
    It was a fairly innocent prank...
    No it was not. It involved a pointless invasion of one person's privacy and an effort to subvert another person's professional integrity.


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    #33
    redtelephone
    Registered Users Posts: 320 ✭✭redtelephone


    P. Breathnach wrote: »
    No it was not. It involved a pointless invasion of one person's privacy and an effort to subvert another person's professional integrity.

    I fully agree. I look forward to the day when a guilty radio station is taken to the cleaners by a victim of one of these so-called prank calls. It's the humiliation of people for amusement and in ths case when the perpetrators tried to justify their actions by saying "we never thought we'd get through" it only added to that poor woman's suffering.


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    #34
    Cookie Policy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 298 ✭✭Cookie Policy


    Just heard on the news the station is to resume normal programming again tomorrow, having played back to back music since. Not yet confirmed if the DJs in question will return to their positions.


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    #35
    DipStick McSwindler
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,460 ✭✭✭DipStick McSwindler


    This post has been deleted.


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    #36
    NIMAN
    Registered Users Posts: 33,145 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    redtelephone wrote: »
    I fully agree. I look forward to the day when a guilty radio station is taken to the cleaners by a victim of one of these so-called prank calls. It's the humiliation of people for amusement and in ths case when the perpetrators tried to justify their actions by saying "we never thought we'd get through" it only added to that poor woman's suffering.

    What would you take a prank caller to court for though?
    What law would they have broken?
    Is there a law against practical jokes?


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    #37
    GSF
    Registered Users Posts: 1,662 ✭✭✭GSF


    NIMAN wrote: »
    What would you take a prank caller to court for though?
    What law would they have broken?
    Is there a law against practical jokes?

    Certainly pretexting is illegal in many countries - obtaining confidential records and information by deception


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    #38
    NIMAN
    Registered Users Posts: 33,145 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    But most don't get information, they are just wind-ups, and can't see many standing up in court.


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    #39
    P. Breathnach
    Registered Users Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    NIMAN wrote: »
    But most don't get information, they are just wind-ups, and can't see many standing up in court.
    This thread is based on one particular call which did involve using deception in an effort to get confidential information.

    It's disingenuous to shelter it in among other prank calls that did not involve such behaviour.


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    #40
    land lover
    Registered Users Posts: 23 ✭land lover


    What a sad loss


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    #41
    Btr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 281 ✭✭Btr


    redtelephone wrote: »
    I fully agree. I look forward to the day when a guilty radio station is taken to the cleaners by a victim of one of these so-called prank calls. It's the humiliation of people for amusement and in ths case when the perpetrators tried to justify their actions by saying "we never thought we'd get through" it only added to that poor woman's suffering.

    Lets be clear, what the station did was wrong. Thy shouldnt have done it. Equally, some airheads in the industry need to understand that most of these calls are not funny and havent been for many years if ever. As for court cases, methinks there was at least the threat of legal action against a national station in this country some years back over a wind-up call.


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    #42
    wrbedzinski
    Registered Users Posts: 10 ✭wrbedzinski


    very today!


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    #43
    tbh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,914 ✭✭✭✭tbh


    Btr wrote: »
    Lets be clear, what the station did was wrong. Thy shouldnt have done it. Equally, some airheads in the industry need to understand that most of these calls are not funny and havent been for many years if ever. As for court cases, methinks there was at least the threat of legal action against a national station in this country some years back over a wind-up call.

    As far as I remember, that involved Simon Young, who told a guy (details are fierce hazy in my head) that he had taken the slates off his roof and wouldn't be able to put them back until after Christmas. Yer man on the receiving end went bananas and hung up the phone before he could be told it was prank call, and rushed home.

    In regards to this case - there are a couple of things that need to be taken into consideration.

    The first question is: Who was the victim of the prank phone call? and the answer is, the two nurses that were featured. This wasn't a prank on Kate or Will - they didn't even know it was happening, and the fact that information was about Kate is incidental to the prank. The nurse wasn't even in a position to fight back - it's 5:30 in the morning and someone claiming to be the queen rings a hospital treating her grandaughter in law - chances are I wouldn't have risked MY job saying "eh, are you really the queen?"

    Second question, kinda related to the first, is Who was the butt of the joke? The DJs said they were expecting to be hung up on straight away. Remember - this was a pre-record. Surely to god someone in there should have said "Ok, we got through, do we really still want to broadcast this?"

    Because, by broadcasting it, what they said was "Look how dumb these two nurses were, that we could ring this hospital with these crazy accents, and trick them into thinking we were the queen"

    Neither of the nurses were in on the joke. Neither of them, presumably, saw the funny side of it (no permission to broadcast was given by them). So the radio station should have said "You know what - they made an honest mistake, it didn't go the way we thought it would, so lets just bin it". Instead, they held those two nurses up to ridicule in the worlds media .

    Now fair enough, the two DJs seem distraught and they couldn't really be expected to think that one of the nurses would kill herself, but what *did* they expect would happen to the two nurses? That they would be ashamed? Embarrassed? Humiliated? Would that have been ok?


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    #44
    Trick of the Tail
    Registered Users Posts: 1,319 ✭✭✭Trick of the Tail


    I don't see how what the station did was wrong at all. It was a silly, only mildly amusing prank call.

    There's no way the presenters could have foreseen that the nurse would subsequently self-harm.

    The best risk assessment in the world wouldn't have predicted that.

    All that nurse did was answer the phone and immediately transfer the call. She subsequently received a lot of abuse for doing so, which may have contributed to her bad feelings. The second nurse that answered the call gave out loads on information she shouldn't have - nothing has been said about her.

    If anyone was at fault there it was the hospital for not having decent security procedures, and for not ensuring the nurse was ok after the media furore started.

    Those young presenters have been scapegoated, and INTENTIONALLY made to feel bad, when even if we accept the tenuous suggestion that their call affected the nurse, it was entirely unintentional.

    I feel sorry for them.

    A.


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    #45
    withless
    Registered Users Posts: 8,741 ✭✭✭withless


    She put the call through without asking any questions.

    The nature of the call doesn't matter.


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    #46
    GSF
    Registered Users Posts: 1,662 ✭✭✭GSF


    alinton wrote: »
    I don't see how what the station did was wrong at all.
    By their own admission, they tried 5 times to get permission to broadcast from the hospital. When they couldnt, they just broadcast it anyway.

    Which tells you they knew that what they were doing needed clearance, but the desire for an exclusive trumped their compliance obligations.


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    #47
    Trick of the Tail
    Registered Users Posts: 1,319 ✭✭✭Trick of the Tail


    But the presenters didn't make the de3cision to broadcast it, their legal advisors and boss did.

    Besides, STILL no-one could, in a million years, foreseen what tragically happened.

    A.


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    #48
    GSF
    Registered Users Posts: 1,662 ✭✭✭GSF


    alinton wrote: »
    Besides, STILL no-one could, in a million years, foreseen what tragically happened.

    A.

    Did they even for a minute try to anticipate what COULD happen? Hospital employees losing their job perhaps. Easily forseeable.


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    #49
    tbh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,914 ✭✭✭✭tbh


    alinton wrote: »
    But the presenters didn't make the de3cision to broadcast it, their legal advisors and boss did.

    Besides, STILL no-one could, in a million years, foreseen what tragically happened.

    A.

    of course they couldn't expect that she might kill herself. But they should have realized how embarrassing it could be for her.

    Can you tell me what she did to deserve to be embarrassed like that? You might, of course, say that she should have just gotten over it, that it wasn't such a big deal.

    But surely it can't be too much to expect that the radio station would give the nurse the choice of playing it or not - some people might say "ah yeah it's funny, go ahead". This nurse obviously wouldn't have - and, given she's a private citizen who was just doing her job - shouldn't she have been given the choice


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    #50
    P. Breathnach
    Registered Users Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    alinton wrote: »
    But the presenters didn't make the de3cision to broadcast it, their legal advisors and boss did....
    So now you move from a claim of the station not having done anything wrong to a claim that the presenters did nothing wrong.

    So you believe it is not wrong to phone a hospital, pass yourself off as a family connection of a patient, and ask for a report on the patient's condition? And that the wrong is not compounded by doing it so that the conversation might be published?


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    #51
    Trick of the Tail
    Registered Users Posts: 1,319 ✭✭✭Trick of the Tail


    Embarrassed? She picked up a phone in passing, heard someone ask for 'Kate', and said 'hang on please'. That was the extent of her involvement.

    The nurse they got put through to gave out far more information, is far more involved yet she still lives.

    Someone with a very bad accent was on the phone playing a practical joke. By their very nature, practical jokes rely on someone being embarrassed. Everyone who has ever been caught on a candid camera show was embarrassed.

    You're going to say that she wasn't asked permission for it to be broadcast - true and that probably should have happened. But the hospital didn't respond to requests from the radio station, and she didn't say her name anyway so who would they have asked?

    Nope, I'm utterly convinced that the presenters did nothing wrong. No-one could have foreseen her tragic demise. Their legal advisors and their boss, who has years of radio experience, didn't and they saw it fit to broadcast.

    They are being made scapegoats of and I feel very sorry for them.

    They unintentionally and inadvertently set events on motion which for yet unknown reasons MAY HAVE (important) contributed to that nurse's death.

    It is not right to INTENTIONALLY heap abuse and blame upon them, with the specific intention of making them feel culpable, guilty, and probably, awful.

    A.


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    #52
    More Music
    Registered Users Posts: 872 ✭✭✭More Music


    In the 24-hour news inspired culture people are always looking for somebody to blame/lose their jobs.

    Saw it with BBC and Saville. Sky etc. just wouldn't rest until Entwhistle lost his job.

    There is no way the DJ's are to blame. As somebody earlier said: "The venom out there now for these DJs is shocking. What if they kill themselves next? Who do we attack then?" The hypocrisy of it.

    The nurse in question didn't even give out the details, she put the call through to another nurse.

    Everybody assumes the DJ's drove her to this, how do we know that for sure? Is it safe to assume she had some problems anyway?

    It's a sad story.

    Prank calls are way past their sell by date anyway.


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    #53
    Trick of the Tail
    Registered Users Posts: 1,319 ✭✭✭Trick of the Tail


    P. Breathnach wrote: »
    So now you move from a claim of the station not having done anything wrong to a claim that the presenters did nothing wrong.

    So you believe it is not wrong to phone a hospital, pass yourself off as a family connection of a patient, and ask for a report on the patient's condition? And that the wrong is not compounded by doing it so that the conversation might be published?

    Is any practical joke 'right'? Are we to ban all practical jokes?

    I made that first point because it is the presenters alone who are being vilified. I don't believe there was anything wrong in the prank, aside from it being not very well executed and not actually very funny.

    A.


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    #54
    tbh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,914 ✭✭✭✭tbh


    alinton wrote: »
    Is any practical joke 'right'? Are we to ban all practical jokes?

    I made that first point because it is the presenters alone who are being vilified. I don't believe there was anything wrong in the prank, aside from it being not very well executed and not actually very funny.

    A.

    I disagree. The thing that was wrong with it is that it picked on someone (the nurses) who did nothing to invite it, and then it was broadcast without asking their permission. The fact that the nurse killed herself made it worse, and that's not really the fault of the DJs, who I agree are the subject of a witchhunt, but the fact is that the permission of the nurses should have been sought before the clip was broadcast, and if it was refused or not obtained, then the clip should never have been broadcast.

    Put it another way - if the DJ's had called an OAP and tricked her into revealing her bank account number by pretending to work for a bank, would that have been ok to broadcast?


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    #55
    P. Breathnach
    Registered Users Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    P. Breathnach wrote: »
    ...
    So you believe it is not wrong to phone a hospital, pass yourself off as a family connection of a patient, and ask for a report on the patient's condition? And that the wrong is not compounded by doing it so that the conversation might be published?
    alinton wrote: »
    Is any practical joke 'right'? Are we to ban all practical jokes?...
    It is disingenuous to put this call in the same category as most spoof calls, because a person in hospital has a right to confidentiality, and medical professionals have an obligation to safeguard that right.

    If I did you an injury, and declared that it was a practical joke, would you forgive me?


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    #56
    RainyDay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,925 ✭✭✭RainyDay


    GSF wrote: »
    Did they even for a minute try to anticipate what COULD happen? Hospital employees losing their job perhaps. Easily forseeable.

    I'd say they anticipated getting very short shrift from anybody at the hospital. They probably never anticipated getting through to anyone who actually knew anything useful at all - not an unreasonable assumption in the circumstances.

    The more important question is whether the hospital anticipated for a moment that such calls might come in, and did they provide guidelines for the staff beforehand in dealing with such calls?


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    #57
    tbh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,914 ✭✭✭✭tbh


    RainyDay wrote: »
    I'd say they anticipated getting very short shrift from anybody at the hospital. They probably never anticipated getting through to anyone who actually knew anything useful at all - not an unreasonable assumption in the circumstances.

    no - but the call wasn't broadcast live. They broadcast it knowing that they did get through.


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    #58
    Trick of the Tail
    Registered Users Posts: 1,319 ✭✭✭Trick of the Tail


    Indeed - they had a Royal in there, did they not expect that someone - a journo maybe - would try to contact the hospital?

    I think the hospital failed to protect their patient and staff, and once the sh!t had hit, failed to ensure that the nurse who had for some reason taken it so badly, was going to be OK.

    Then, they blamed the radio station.

    None of this would have happened if the hospital had been more careful. This could just as easily have been 'caused' (in a catalytic way) by a newspaper reporter.

    A.


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    #59
    daheff
    Registered Users Posts: 5,844 ✭✭✭daheff


    my opinion would be that it was an unfunny bad joke.


    The hospital staff probably shouldnt have been fielding these questions...they probably should have been told not to give details to the media. I'd guess (and its only a guess) that the phone operator that transferred the call to that ward probably wasnt even aware that it was the royal.

    But to have then gone and committed suicide (Allegedly) over this...sounds like there was something very much wrong with her in the first place...it it hadnt been this then it could have been something else.

    the nurse that then gave out information to the dj's probably did so thinking that the person transferring the call had verified the callers identity (a reasonable assumption -although wrong).

    I would think that the fault here lies with the hospital for not properly informing staff of what to do when faced with such a call.


    As for the 2 DJs - there is no way that they could have foreseen that the nurse would have committed suicide (allegedly). It was a bad joke that went badly wrong.


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    #60
    P. Breathnach
    Registered Users Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    alinton wrote: »
    ...
    None of this would have happened if the hospital had been more careful. ...
    None of this would have happened if the radio presenters had not phoned the hospital.

    Your line of argument is moving inexorably towards "blame the victim".


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    #61
    P. Breathnach
    Registered Users Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    daheff wrote: »
    ...
    But to have then gone and committed suicide (Allegedly) over this...sounds like there was something very much wrong with her in the first place...it it hadnt been this then it could have been something else...
    It's not appropriate to speculate on her state of mind. And that dimension of the story has nothing to do with radio.


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