John Durkan Memorial Chase

klairondavis

52352 1 Blackstairmountain(148) (WPMullins) - 11,10
-13f1 2 Bog Warrior(150) (AJMartin) - 11,10
11111 3 Flemenstar(168) (PCasey) - 11,10
p5220 4 Magnanimity(140) (DTHughes) - 11,10
113-3 5 Quito De La Roque (FR)(159) (CAMurphy) - 11,10
52044 6 Realt Dubh(159) (NMeade) - 11,10
2-154 7 Rubi Light (FR)(161) (RAHennessy) - 11,10
1-111 8 Sir Des Champs (FR)(162) (WPMullins) - 11,10
p0311 9 Blazing Tempo(153) (WPMullins) - 11,03

Should be a small but select field. I can't see Bog Warrior running and QDLR more likely to go to Aintree. The bookies have it as a match. Rubi Light is a good yardstick in these contests but if the other two are Gold Cup horses they should be taking care of him with little fuss. I'm half tempted to take a chance with Sir Des Champs at the price. I doubt Mullins will have him too short on the likely ground in such a hot contest so close to the big Christmas targets.

beaker1

in the racing post today trainer said if the ground is to sticky or gluey flemenstar might not run

Slattsy

If Flemenstar runs, i expect him to win.

SDC may need the run, and as Gold Cup fav im sure Mullins will have left plenty to work on, esp with the ground being so bad he wont want him to have an overly hard race.

ste2010

Slattsy wrote: »

If Flemenstar runs, i expect him to win.

SDC may need the run, and as Gold Cup fav im sure Mullins will have left plenty to work on, esp with the ground being so bad he wont want him to have an overly hard race.

I Wouldn't be surprised if SDC didn't run. Also I thought flemenstar would run on heavy.. A safe bet could be rubi light to each way at the moment given the participation question marks over both FS and SDC

Slattsy

ste2010 wrote: »

I Wouldn't be surprised if SDC didn't run. Also I thought flemenstar would run on heavy.. A safe bet could be rubi light to each way at the moment given the participation question marks over both FS and SDC

They both have actually won on heavy ground, so there's no ground issue's as such.
I'd guess the big dilemma the trainers face is not wanting to give the horses a ridiculously hard race.

kennyb3

All 4 big guns declared (4 runnuers total) - bog warrior, rubi light, SDC, Flemenstar. Some race

Harry Angstrom

Evens Flemenstar might look good come Sunday evening. Ready made excuse for Sir Des Champs if he doesn't run up to scratch as he's first time out.

the groutch

will be having a small punt on Bog Warrior at a big price, on the ground I wouldnt put it beyond him to slip the field early and leave them too much to make up.

ste2010

the groutch wrote: »

will be having a small punt on Bog Warrior at a big price, on the ground I wouldnt put it beyond him to slip the field early and leave them too much to make up.

If big worrior wins tomorrow ill post a video of me eating a christmas tree right after the race...

mr.jingle

Powers were giving a special on Flemenstar and Sprinter Sacre at 2's so had a little bet on it don't normally do them but just thought it was 2/1 on Flemenstar!

I'd like to see Flemenstar win tomorrow even if i hadn't money on him, I love to see a small trainer with a decent horse and taking on the big boy's such as the Gigginstown crew and coming out on top, it' what the NH game is all about. Also i just can't wait for Peter Casey's interview afterwards he's a great laugh and wouldn't mind having a pint with him i'd say he's a great bit of craic :pac:

Oscars Well.

Ruby today in the Irish Examiner "And, of course, he runs Gigginstown’s Sir Des Champs against two high-class opponents in Flemenstar and Rubi Light in the John Durkan.I have the utmost respect for the other two, especially Flemenstar, but think Sir Des Champs will handle them."

UrbanSea

Bog Warrior a non runner

Colonel Sanders

All the money for Sir Des here

Colonel Sanders

Am I the only one who thought Russell wasn't happy from a LONG way out there?

Harry Angstrom

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

Evens Flemenstar might look good come Sunday evening. Ready made excuse for Sir Des Champs if he doesn't run up to scratch as he's first time out.

Go on ya good thing!!!

RichieLawlor

Colonel Sanders wrote: »

Am I the only one who thought Russell wasn't happy from a LONG way out there?

Seemed to run on and off it most of the way

Morgans

Colonel Sanders wrote: »

Am I the only one who thought Russell wasn't happy from a LONG way out there?

Definitely not. Better days ahead of both I think. Sir Des Champs looked slightly slow. Wouldn't think that either are gold cup winners on that form but dont think Mullins will be too unhappy with it either.

Harry Angstrom

Flemenstar is every inch a Ryanair horse IMO. Can't help thinking Sir Des Champs is slightly overrated. Beating Champion Court by 4 lengths at last season's Festival leaves him with a bit to find if he's going to win a Gold Cup.

d-gal

Morgans wrote: »

Definitely not. Better days ahead of both I think. Sir Des Champs looked slightly slow. Wouldn't think that either are gold cup winners on that form but dont think Mullins will be too unhappy with it either.

Don't know how you couldn't be impressed by Flemenstar, got a couple of slaps down the neck that was it, he made bits of SDC. I know was seasonal reappearance for SDC. but I'd fancy Flemenstar ahead of Bobs Wort or SDC

hucklebuck

That was a smashing performance. Glad I took him at 8's for the gold cup before the race

Colonel Sanders

Sir Des was well punted too.

Awful fall for Tarla, not sure she'll get up from it unfortunately

Colonel Sanders

Thankfully I'm wrong re Tarla

Nulty

Is she exhausted more than injured though?

Ah, too late

Morgans

d-gal wrote: »

Don't know how you couldn't be impressed by Flemenstar, got a couple of slaps down the neck that was it, he made bits of SDC. I know was seasonal reappearance for SDC. but I'd fancy Flemenstar ahead of Bobs Wort or SDC

Cos, he would have been fitter than SDC today. I dont think he is crying out for a step up in trip. I think he is a grand horse and will win plenty of races, but I think today wasnt gong to be SDCs day from a long way out. And Flemenstar was sketchy enough jumping. I dont think the race took an awful lot of winning.

If I had Bobs worth backed for the Gold Cup, I would be happy after that.

bit of a bogey

I thought Sir Des Champs ran a cracker. I would think Mullins and Russell will be very happy with him. Was a good blow out and when he steps up in trip, he'll be all the better.

Flemenstar was impressive and did the business as expected.

klairondavis

Morgans wrote: »

Wouldn't think that either are gold cup winners.

Both are right in the mix as far as I'm concerned. Rubi Light is a very good yardstick over two and a half on heavy and they've stretched well clear of him.

Morgans

I think it remains to be seen if Rubi Light ran anywhere near his best today.

ste2010

Despite how unpopular this view might be..I don't think we seen the GC winner today. Unless they come on hell of alot I can't see them in the mix.
Silvianaco conti or bobs worth for me...

hucklebuck

I think if Flemenstar gets the trip he wins it.

Don't forget he did that in bottomless ground which makes it such an impressive performance, he doesn't seem to have a preference for going either which is also a plus.

Morgans

It was a 3 runner race against two horses without a run. It looked like SDC needed it and it is impossible to weigh up the form. Could be outstanding, could be below par. It is definitely easier to get a handle on Bob's Worth form. Flemenstar might well win it, I'd like it for Casey. I dont think todays race took an awful lot of winning the way things panned out and I dont think he is screaming out for 3m either.

I thought Lynch was getting a little worried on the run in when looking behind him, as he didnt have a whole pile left in the tank. But that's just my view and we wont know for sure til the next day. There is certainly no point in being dogmatic about it.

That Casey is going to enter him in the 2m at Christmas shows how careful they are with him - I think Id be be tempted to leave him have christmas off.

hucklebuck

I think there was a good bit left, the horse had his ears pricked and the drive didn't look too serious. My view on Lynch looking behind was to see when he could ease off.

I am concerned that he is running in a 2 mile race, it is a very bold move to throw the horse straight into the Gold Cup without testing his stamina in a race

the groutch

hard to know what to take from that race, SDC folded pretty tamely but all the conditions were against him (lack of recent run, trip, small field, slow pace, etc.) and I don't think we can make any judgement til after the Lexus.

but if I were to give my 2 cents worth, I think Flemenstar might be more of a Ryanair Chase horse, and couldnt back him for the gold cup.

NaiveMelodies

Owner says he won't drop back in trip.

Would be silly if they did IMO. Great performance today, though I'm not fully convinced if there was lots and lots left in the tank, really hard to know.
Honestly think Rubi Light is a half decent yard stick, goes well fresh, 2m 4f his perfect trip, ground to suit, don't think there is any excuses today bar he was up against and outclassed by 2 top class animals.
Willie Mullins said today at no stage during the race did he expect Sir Des Champs to win, think thats a testament to how highly the winner is regarded.

I'd like to see how he does in a bigger field, hopefully the Lexus, get a bit of cover perhaps and then show us if he can stay the trip adequately. Then put him away till Cheltenham or even run him over a shorter trip in a smaller race to keep him fit in between.

Really exciting that we have a potentially top class staying prospect from Ireland this season.

mdwexford

I thought Flemenstar would win today but that SDC was the better Gold Cup prospect, today didnt change my view on that.

Id take SDC ahead of SC but Bobs Worth looks the best to me so far.

Colonel Sanders

While I'm not writing SDC off in anyway shape or form you have to remember he was very well backed today close to the off so I'm not so sure fitness was an issue

I was stunned some firms had SDC shorter than Bobs Worth before today & even tonight I'm still shocked that Silviniaco Conti is generally a bigger price

hucklebuck

Interesting piece on Flemenstar with bold claims:

Their sire, Flemensfirth, can number the likes of Imperial Commander, Tidal Bay, Pandorama and Time For Rupert among his progeny yet this fellow has the ability to trump them all.

http://www.sportinglife.com/racing/news/article/465/8320531/better-than-sex

ste2010

it seemed after alot of the fences flemenstar an sir des champs needed that split second to gather the pace again. This is one of the things that's turning me off them both. Would you say the ground is responsible for the?
You could certainly see glimpses of the staying ability of SDC

klairondavis

Ground would be a factor alright but the sedate pace even more so. Horses will tend to stand off a bit more and have a cut at their fences when they're going a stronger clip.

Huntley

Flemenstar still doesn't look like a Gold Cup horse, SDC still potentially is.

Baggio1

i remember these exact same arguments before Imperial Call went and won the GC, he had already stayed 3 miles etc in point to points and had been kept sweet over 2miles and 2miles+ , the UK media thought One Man was a shoo in, and Imperial, didnt stay, never been to cheltenham or jumped a water jump or even travelled to UK etc... well we all know what happened!
casey seems to be doing the same thing with Flemenstar... i think hes the same as Imperial Call and will win the GC, he also has won point to points 3miles etc and STILL the uk media seem to not spot this, i love a horse with gears and stays and jumps as well as he does.

actually i dont think he was mad about going right handed the other day didnt really seem to suit him as well as left handed even though he's won both ways.

anyway i think he'll go all the way all he needs is luck and to be kept sweet.

Morgans

For every Imperial Call there are ten Florida Pearls, who won the Sun Alliance Chase, won a point to point and ultimately didnt stay up the hill in the Gold Cup.

Because you win an Irish point to point doesn't mean you will definitely stay. To think otherwise is idiocy.

Lots of the best two milers over the last decade were point to point winners. Suny Bay, twice second in the grand national, was beaten by Ask Tom in his point to point at Dromahane. Ask Tom never won beyond 2m over fences and was favourite for the champion chase.

Baggio1

morgans... fair points,, but idiocy??.. thats a bit harsh and unnessesary..

its all about opinions and i think he'll stay alright and the hil wont be a problem to him... sure many have failed,, i just think he'll get up it so there you go....

NaiveMelodies

We won't know if he stays the trip until he races over 3 miles under rules, I bloody hope he does. Even if he wins over 3m, the Lexus perhaps, the cheltenham hill is another climb.

Casey seems extremely confident though about the trip, he knows the horse aswell as anyone, if he thought the Ryanair was the more suitable race, no reason why he wouldn't say so. Suppose it might be a similar situation to Seabass last season, ran over 2m to 2m4f and ran a screamer in the National, again though different story with the speed they'll be going at Cheltenham.

Dying to know if Pandorama will run in the lexus, small bits of 14 on BF at the moment, think it's a big price if they have him ready.

ste2010

only1stevo wrote: »

We won't know if he stays the trip until he races over 3 miles under rules, I bloody hope he does. Even if he wins over 3m, the Lexus perhaps, the cheltenham hill is another climb.

Casey seems extremely confident though about the trip, he knows the horse aswell as anyone, if he thought the Ryanair was the more suitable race, no reason why he wouldn't say so. Suppose it might be a similar situation to Seabass last season, ran over 2m to 2m4f and ran a screamer in the National, again though different story with the speed they'll be going at Cheltenham.

Dying to know if Pandorama will run in the lexus, small bits of 14 on BF at the moment, think it's a big price if they have him ready.

I can't recall whether it was weapons amnesty or pandorma I watched and interview on...actually im pretty sure it was pandorma and Noel Meade. They were saying he's getting there but not quite there yet. and ideally they would put him in a weaker race before the Lexus but because he's not quite ready they're only option is to throw him in and see how he gets on.
They have high hopes he retains all his ability...pandorama is an incredible horse would love to see him back in business.

Sammo13

Pandorma will only run on soft ground in future, Meade not 100% he'll be ready for xmas, ground might not be soft enough at xmas, if heavy he is one to have on your side alright.

Has for Fleminstar, hard to knock the horse, he has done everything he has been asked, won on all type of ground and has gears, class horse.. I reckon he stay 3m around leopardstown and a small field of 6/7 in the Lezus will suit him fine. As for the GC, he might get done up the hill as I think SDS and Bobs Worth look best suited to 3m 2f around Chelty and have won twice at the track and festival form is v important.

I know the GC is the main race, but him and Sprinter Sacre around Aintree in Melling Chase over 2m 4f would be a race to witness.;)

Morgans

Baggio1 wrote: »

morgans... fair points,, but idiocy??.. thats a bit harsh and unnessesary..

its all about opinions and i think he'll stay alright and the hil wont be a problem to him... sure many have failed,, i just think he'll get up it so there you go....

Fair enough. Apologies. It came across more personal than it should have done.

I do think that saying that Flemenstar will stay cos Imperial Call did isnt persuasive in the slightest.

NaiveMelodies

ste2010 wrote: »

They have high hopes he retains all his ability...pandorama is an incredible horse would love to see him back in business.

Here Here, was there too see him win the Lexus in 2010 with absolute ease, a great performance.
Remember well that Meade was firmly outspoken in the fact he never wanted him run in the Gold Cup but owners forced his hand.

RichieLawlor

They never come back

ste2010

RichieLawlor wrote: »

They never come back

You've said this 3 times now and although your probably right on this point more times than not its been proven some have..
Our father, go native, rite of passage
Wasn't invictus out for a season also before beating silvianaco conti and bobs worth?

NaiveMelodies

RichieLawlor wrote: »

They never come back

Ye cheers for that, a wonderful insight into racing.

premierstone

only1stevo wrote: »

Ye cheers for that, a wonderful insight into racing.

Not often I agree with Richie but he has a fair point here, 99% of the time they are never the same and besides the particualr horse in question would/will never win a Grade one outside of Ireland and on any ground other than soft. Poor man's Beef or Salmon if you ask me.