Helping Strangers in Need

southsiderosie

A man got into an argument with a stranger and was shoved onto the tracks in a Manhattan subway station. While he tried to climb out of the way of the oncoming train (the platform is about five feet above the tracks) not only did nobody help, but a photographer actually took his picture moments before he was hit - which the New York Post printed on its front page the next day (WARNING: although it is not gory it may be disturbing for some). The photographer claims that he wasn't taking the man's picture, but using the flash to warn the conductor (which I don't buy for a second), and the photo doesn't really show anyone near the man on the platform, but witnesses said the man had about 30-45 seconds to get out of the way of the oncoming train.

If you saw something like this happen, would you have tried to pull the man back onto the platform? I would like to think that I would have, and I hope to god that if I ever fell/was shoved onto train tracks that someone would help me. I certainly wouldn't stop to take a flippin' picture, that's for sure.

(And as for the question of should the photo have been published - hell no, it shouldn't have).

Eathrin

I couldn't possibly imagine nobody in this country trying to help you. We're not total asshóles like that :mad:
And the picture should never have been published. That's absolutely horrific.

stiffler123

Any decent person would have tried to help him.

Grimebox

Negative times negative is a positive so why don't we just multiply the national debt by more debt and wipe it out with a huge profit?

Where To

I remember pulling a child out of the path of a lorry once (wasn't really in that much danger, the lorry was almost stopped). The looks I got from people standing around you'd think I tried to abduct the kid. It was just an instinctive reaction, I'd hope that I'd do it again, but until you're in that situation you don't know how you will react.

In short, I hope I would help, but nobody can say 100% certain that they would.

policarp

A photo of the assailant would have been more appropriate IMO.

wonderfullife

to be honest the part that sickens the most is anybody trying to help the man was basically in no danger. His hands on the platform all anybody had to do was try pull him up. it's not like anybody had to do any Jason Bourne esque moves to try help.

1ZRed

"Pushed onto subway train, this man is about to die. DOOMED" is the heading?


Fairly disgusting if you ask me. Imagine just stepping back to take a photo of a guy about to die without even a hint of hesitation to do that over trying to save him.

Fvcking twisted. I think it'd be any decent person's first instinct to try and help someone in danger.

The world has gotten a bit fvcked up

Stheno

1ZRed wrote: »

"Pushed onto subway train, this man is about to die. DOOMED" is the heading?


Fairly disgusting if you ask me. Imagine just stepping back to take a photo of a guy about to die without even a hint of hesitation to do that over trying to save him.

Fvcking twisted. I think it'd be any decent person's first instinct to try and help someone in danger.

The world has gotten a bit fvcked up

The World's been ****ed up a while. Remember Veronica Guerin? I learned she was dead well ahead of most of the world due to a photographer arriving into my media studies group wanting taxi fare so he could take photos.

That was longer ago than some posters on this site!

1ZRed

Stheno wrote: »

The World's been ****ed up a while. Remember Veronica Guerin? I learned she was dead well ahead of most of the world due to a photographer arriving into my media studies group wanting taxi fare so he could take photos.

That was longer ago than some posters on this site!

True, but I'd have only been 2 years old when that happened never mind posting on this site.

I more meant this obsession with pic posts. Like, I've heard so many stories of people hurt/dying/getting beat up, or something along those lines, with people only stopping to tweet a photo of it and carry on because it doesn't concern them much further than that.

It's that shít I don't like and it's a strange self obsessed culture thing with some people. Fairly often when I'd read stories like that I'd see it was younger people that'd snap a pic and carry on, which sometimes makes me embarrassed of my own generation.

3rdDegree

Do you think this is a symptom of life on New York, or could it happen in any modern "civilized" city? Are the people of New York really that cold?

TheFisherKing

Photographer should have tried to help. Not a chance that you would want to spark your flash to warn the train driver in such circumstances, that's nonsense. The truth is that his photographer mindset kicked in and he wanted to get the shot of some guy stuck on the train tracks. He may not have succeeded but whatever time he spent taking photos would have been far better spent sprinting towards the guy and trying to grab his hands.

starviewadams

People always like to think that they would be the 'hero' in situations like that,but through panic/fear/shock some people can't.

Also the bystander effect comes into play.

Maximus Alexander

On the other hand.

And.

Oh and.

The only thing I can think of is that nobody was near enough and / or there wasn't time. People help people.

TheFisherKing

News report here with video of suspect:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxKBI_62vv0

southsiderosie

Stheno wrote: »

The World's been ****ed up a while. Remember Veronica Guerin? I learned she was dead well ahead of most of the world due to a photographer arriving into my media studies group wanting taxi fare so he could take photos.

That was longer ago than some posters on this site!

1ZRed wrote: »

True, but I'd have only been 2 years old when that happened never mind posting on this site.

I more meant this obsession with pic posts. Like, I've heard so many stories of people hurt/dying/getting beat up, or something along those lines, with people only stopping to tweet a photo of it and carry on because it doesn't concern them much further than that.

It's that shít I don't like and it's a strange self obsessed culture thing with some people. Fairly often when I'd read stories like that I'd see it was younger people that'd snap a pic and carry on, which sometimes makes me embarrassed of my own generation.

Forbes had a short piece on the ethics of taking the photo. It's one thing to witness something horrible that you have no power to control, but it's another thing altogether to stand there taking pictures when you could potentially save someone.

krudler

then there's the opposite:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIGTyANMFb4

Lollers

krudler wrote: »

then there's the opposite:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIGTyANMFb4

God they where brave, it looked like a fireball was about to ignite.

krudler

Lollers wrote: »

God they where brave, it looked like a fireball was about to ignite.

Interestingly its the guy in the suit's car, who just stands there doing nothing as a bunch of random people save the guy he just knocked down. He was probably in shock at that stage.

Lollers

krudler wrote: »

Interestingly its the guy in the suit's car, who just stands there doing nothing as a bunch of random people save the guy he just knocked down. He was probably in shock at that stage.

Yep, he looks spaced alright, shock kicking in there I'd say.

Logical_Bear

i take it he survived?

jomc

Logical_Bear wrote: »

i take it he survived?

The guy hit by the train did not survive. R.I.P. Disgraceful that its what our world has come to

CruelCoin

southsiderosie wrote: »

A man got into an argument with a stranger and was shoved onto the tracks in a Manhattan subway station. While he tried to climb out of the way of the oncoming train (the platform is about five feet above the tracks) not only did nobody help, but a photographer actually took his picture moments before he was hit - which the New York Post printed on its front page the next day (WARNING: although it is not gory it may be disturbing for some). The photographer claims that he wasn't taking the man's picture, but using the flash to warn the conductor (which I don't buy for a second), and the photo doesn't really show anyone near the man on the platform, but witnesses said the man had about 30-45 seconds to get out of the way of the oncoming train.

If you saw something like this happen, would you have tried to pull the man back onto the platform? I would like to think that I would have, and I hope to god that if I ever fell/was shoved onto train tracks that someone would help me. I certainly wouldn't stop to take a flippin' picture, that's for sure.

(And as for the question of should the photo have been published - hell no, it shouldn't have).

A pram full of babies could roll onto the tracks, but i'm not risking my life by jumping down there and trying to act the hero.

Were it someone i gave a crap about (friends/family/etc) then i'd jump down, but rest can go hang.

Lollipops23

CruelCoin wrote: »

A pram full of babies could roll onto the tracks, but i'm not risking my life by jumping down there and trying to act the hero.

Were it someone i gave a crap about (friends/family/etc) then i'd jump down, but rest can go hang.

Wow. Nice.


Hope you never need a stranger's help.

jomc

CruelCoin wrote: »

A pram full of babies could roll onto the tracks, but i'm not risking my life by jumping down there and trying to act the hero.

Were it someone i gave a crap about (friends/family/etc) then i'd jump down, but rest can go hang.

While this is hideous in itself, nobody had to jump down on to the platform to help him. All they had to do was stay on the platform and just reach to his hand, which was over the platform. Maybe they would have managed, maybe not, but not one person even tried and now this man is dead. Even though he wasn't your family or your friend, he was someones family, and someones friend. Disgraceful, i'm genuinely sickened at this and i thought not much would surprise me anymore

wp_rathead

well.. cheers OP- clicked on this thread expected a nice uplifting tale about helping people... f**k me how wrong I was.. How could people have such apathy towards other humans

as for the person who took the photo... disgusting.. Worse still, the Newspaper who put it front page to sell papers..

CruelCoin

CruelCoin wrote: »

A pram full of babies could roll onto the tracks, but i'm not risking my life by jumping down there and trying to act the hero.

Were it someone i gave a crap about (friends/family/etc) then i'd jump down, but rest can go hang.

I think the point was that there was a few seconds where someone could still have helped. Nobody needed to have jumped down on to the tracks. Merely bent down to pull him back up.

Rubber_Soul

I'd like to think I'd be able to react quickly and help but shock can make you freeze at the time. I know one thing for sure though, it would never even enter my head to take a picture.

kumate_champ07

its dificult to know what one would do it that situation, Im sure shock had a part to play in the lack of help. I find it hard to believe that people couldnt be arsed to do anything to help

kumate_champ07

some could have seen it as attempted suicide, people generally keep to themselves on the subway, they could have just seen the guy there thinking he was nuts and been afraid to help in case they had been pulled down by some lunatic

Lollers

Poor chap he was trying to help himself on to the platform, and no one gave him a hand, as others have said if one person went to help him I'm sure others would, but the bystander effect took place. The guy who said he was taking a flash photo to warn the train driver can get fu@ked.

kumate_champ07

everyone knows it takes a huge distance for any train to stop after hitting the brakes, the photographer had time to react to take a photo, so he made the choice not to help.

lounakin

I tend to believe the photographer! Say you were him and saw a guy on the tracks, you only have a few seconds to act and you chose to wave frantically at the driver but you think it might be in vain so you decide to flash the camera right at his face... It's possible...

ItAintMeBabe

Of all the shocking photographs I've seen, nothing has shaken me like that. That poor, poor man. RIP.

kumate_champ07

ItAintMeBabe wrote: »

Of all the shocking photographs I've seen, nothing has shaken me like that. That poor, poor man. RIP.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-xS2dNW4uTvE/TyQRBwN_tlI/AAAAAAAACek/xW1LkW0rIe0/s1600/Eddie_Adams_Saigon_Execution.jpg

Esoteric_

This is one of the most horrific, shocking things I have ever seen.

That poor man must have been terrified, trying to get back onto the platform and wondering why the fúck nobody would help him.

I can't say for certain, because I have never been in that situation, but I don't think I could ever NOT try to help somebody in that situation.

fundlebundle

There was a guy (pretty sure a junkie) unconscious on the main street in malahide a while ago, I saw three people physically step over him before I ran over to help. But as I was checking his pulse and calling an ambulance a crowd had gathered around me. It's odd the way people behave in groups.
It must be terrifying to look to a crowd for help and see only shocked faces staring back.

southsiderosie

lounakin wrote: »

I tend to believe the photographer! Say you were him and saw a guy on the tracks, you only have a few seconds to act and you chose to wave frantically at the driver but you think it might be in vain so you decide to flash the camera right at his face... It's possible...

That's nonsense. The photo was perfectly framed, with the victim dead center. If he was really running through a dark subway station and trying to warn the conductor, the photos would be haphazard and fuzzy. In this case, the photographer is trying to cover his ass.

Moll'll fix it

My brother was attacked by a bull some years ago. The bull had knocked him unconscious and was goring his head with his horns when a 16 year old schoolboy who was mitching school looked into the field, saw what was happening and straightaway ran to his assistance, picked him up and pulled him over a fence to safety. Now there's a hero!

Esoteric_

southsiderosie wrote: »

That's nonsense. The photo was perfectly framed, with the victim dead center. If he was really running through a dark subway station and trying to warn the conductor, the photos would be haphazard and fuzzy. In this case, the photographer is trying to cover his ass.

Plus, surely if you were trying to get the flash to alert the subway driver, you'd aim the camera directly at the window of the train, and not at the victim, being sure to get the incoming train in the photo, too?

My name is URL

imediaethics.org have torn apart the obvious lies from the photographer. He maintained that all he had time to do was point the camera and get a shot, but the website shows that he actually took time to frame the shot correctly etc

http://www.imediaethics.org/News/3640/Clues_that_abbasi_lied_about_new_york_post_subway_photo_.php

Guy's a scumbag. Pity there's no 'good samaritan' type law under which he could be charged.

lounakin

southsiderosie wrote: »

That's nonsense. The photo was perfectly framed, with the victim dead center. If he was really running through a dark subway station and trying to warn the conductor, the photos would be haphazard and fuzzy. In this case, the photographer is trying to cover his ass.

You're right, I should have phrased my thought better, I only mean it's a plausible explanation in the absolute but obviously in this case it's hard to believe. But the photo isn't directly aimed at the man, it's in between the man and the train. I think it's even more cynical: the guy actually seems to have taken his time to take the best shot possible with the driver in the train included.

pontia

fundlebundle wrote: »

There was a guy (pretty sure a junkie) unconscious on the main street in malahide a while ago, I saw three people physically step over him before I ran over to help. But as I was checking his pulse and calling an ambulance a crowd had gathered around me. It's odd the way people behave in groups.
It must be terrifying to look to a crowd for help and see only shocked faces staring back.

if i saw a junkie on the ground i wouldent touch them either,non junkie yes

southsiderosie

fundlebundle wrote: »

There was a guy (pretty sure a junkie) unconscious on the main street in malahide a while ago, I saw three people physically step over him before I ran over to help. But as I was checking his pulse and calling an ambulance a crowd had gathered around me. It's odd the way people behave in groups.
It must be terrifying to look to a crowd for help and see only shocked faces staring back.

pontia wrote: »

if i saw a junkie on the ground i wouldent touch them either,non junkie yes

I was in a similar situation a few years ago - I was walking down the street and saw people stepping over and around what appeared to be a pile of rags - then realized it was a person. Another passerby noticed as well, and I stayed with the man while he ran to the fire station a block away to get help.

Even if you don't want to touch a stranger on the ground, the least you can do is call for help and stay until the police or paramedics arrive. I don't think that human kindness is something that should be reserved for the well-to-do.

Pottler

Crappy alright, but I'm not too sure I'd start slinging mud at everyone. I've seen people get trapped/crushed etc, up close and personal, and everyone just froze, and I mean froze, rooted to the spot, almost without exception. It's like peoples brains are rutted into a certain safe routine and when somthing out of the ordinary happens, it does just not compute.

I don't, but that's just the way my brain is wired, I lash in to help without even a seconds thought, but i don't think any less of people who freeze - people are funny and are all wired differently. Until you're there, you don't know how your body will react. Some people also get rooted to the spot with helpless panic, some just genuinely don't give a sh1t. Funny old world. Me personally, I get the shakes like hell afterwards, but at the time, I'm ice cool. Just wiring really.

Peregrine

That's upsetting, and it's absolutely shameful that nobody helped him.

Lollers

They have made an arrest http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/feedarticle/10558904

Greenmachine

On one level it is identical. The two people talking in the background with the camera could potentially have been videoing a man burnt alive.

krudler wrote: »

then there's the opposite:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIGTyANMFb4

Gongoozler

At first I thought I believe the photographer, but the more I think about it, no, I don't. He even said himself, he had 22 seconds. 22 seconds is a bloody long time in which to try to do something. It's also a long time in which to stand there flashing your camera. If after even 5 seconds you could see it was doing no use, you'd surely do something else. He was doing that supposedly to help, so he wasn't stood there shocked like we could at least credit the others with.

But yeah, I don't get why no one did anything. Don't know how they can go on living, knowing they did nothing to help.

UCDVet

I have to agree with others; I wouldn't be so quick to criticize. I don't see anyone immediately next to the guy who would just pull him up. Maybe there are people right outside of the shot, but I can't tell.

In a situation like that, most people don't know how to respond. It's a very unreal and unexpected thing. Yes, logically, sitting on our computers, it's easy to say, 'Just run and pull him up'. But in practice, a lot of people are just awe-struck. They freeze up.

We live in really safe times. Most of us aren't used to or ready to handle life or death situations. If you take a first-aid class one of the things they teach you to do is *NOT* say 'Call for an ambulance' out loud, because if you are in a room with 50 people, studies show that all 50 are going to stand there and stare at you. Instead, turn to someone who looks able and say, to them, '*YOU*, You go and call for an ambulance, NOW.' Because that person will gladly do it.

I witnessed a purse-snatching and I did nothing. Not because I didn't want to help - but because I didn't know wtf was going on. By the time my tiny brain processed what was happening some guy was half a block away, turning down an ally and some lady had screamed.

irishdude11

Eh, in a situation like this somebody would be putting themselves in severe danger by attempting to save the man. Anybody who attempted to help him up could easily end up getting pulled onto the tracks themselves. I don't know about you but I am not putting my life at serious risk for a complete stranger...family or friends yes but some random person, not a chance in hell.