The Right to Die

MadsL

With a case before the High Court about the right to die with assistance, would you personally like Ireland to ratify the right to an assisted suicide should you be unable to take your own life?

Lawrence1895

Yes.

Larianne

Yes

NegativeCreep

Yeah. It's ridiculous. You should be able to die whenever you want to, dignified and on your own terms.

MadsL

Poll added.

James Forde

only when Gotham is in ashes

aaronjumper

If the person is in a lot of pain then yes.

franktheplank

At what point does death occur?

MadsL

franktheplank wrote: »

At what point does death occur?

What do you mean?

My name is URL

It's a bit simplistic to call it a 'right to die'... people have that right already.

MadsL

My name is URL wrote: »

It's a bit simplistic to call it a 'right to die'... people have that right already.

How do you have that right once you reach an immobile state?

bullets

no option in the poll for people who would never ever ever ever want to take their own life no matter what the circumstances ?????

Have had family die a slow horrible death via cancer but I've always said to myself if it ever happened to me no matter how much pain or
how indignant I felt regardless to circumstances I would cling to every single minute of life I have for as long as possible regardless of how good or **** that might be.
~B

NegativeCreep

bullets wrote: »

no option in the poll for people who would never ever ever ever want to take their own life no matter what the circumstances ?????

~B

It's all too easy to say that when you're healthy.

666WillFixIt

"limited" rather than "very limited" circumstances would be the way to go.

Lapin

A person should have the right to determine their own fate in a dignified manner.

Especially in this case where the woman is in extreme pain and discomfort with no quality of life.

Politicans, churches and vested interests should stay out of meddling with people's private decisions.

Lapin

A person should have the right to determine their own fate in a dignified manner.

Especially in this case where the woman is in extreme pain and discomfort with no quality of life.

Politicans, churches and vested interests should stay out of meddling with people's private decisions.

My name is URL

MadsL wrote: »

How do you have that right once you reach an immobile state?

People in wheelchairs have a right to walk.. those blind have a right to see.

Everyone has the right to die. What you're arguing for is another person's right to help take a life.

That's the law that needs to be looked at. No sense in obfuscating the issue with moralistic and emotive personal scenarios.

Aciiiiiiiiiiid

I should have the right to kill anyone I want, including myself.

Greentopia

Yes, absolutely.

bullets

NegativeCreep wrote: »

It's all too easy to say that when you're healthy.

Maybe that is true.....but I have thought about it a lot in the past after seeing
people I know and family die from various illnesses, and some of who just wanted to end it all for the sake of the rest of the family not wanting to be a burden and I've a long time ago come to the decision if that ever happened to me that I would want to last as long as I could and fight any illness to my last dying breath before giving up.

~B

Jimmy Bottlehead

bullets wrote: »

Maybe that is true.....but I have thought about it a lot in the past after seeing
people I know and family die from various illnesses, and some of who just wanted to end it all for the sake of the rest of the family not wanting to be a burden and I've a long time ago come to the decision if that ever happened to me that I would want to last as long as I could and fight any illness to my last dying breath before giving up.

~B

But why?

Why would you cling to a miserable, painful existence? For yourself? For others?

BidillyBo

Yea its bull**** if you don't wanna be here anymore why should you have to go hang yourself out of a tree in the arse end of nowhere for someone to stumble on.Its your life no one elses should be aloud to do what you want

bullets

Jimmy Bottlehead wrote: »

But why?

Why would you cling to a miserable, painful existence? For yourself? For others?

because I don't want to die.
its gonna happen sooner or later (I choose the later)

~B

MadsL

bullets wrote: »

no option in the poll for people who would never ever ever ever want to take their own life no matter what the circumstances ?????

Err. The second option is No, no-one should have this right did you want one especially referring to you?

oppenheimer1

Doesn't everyone have the right to die? Whether its a right or not it is inevitable after all. What is up for discussion in the High court is the right to an assisted death.

What ever your opinion on it I think everyone has to agree that it has the potential to be abused.

MadsL

My name is URL wrote: »

People in wheelchairs have a right to walk.. those blind have a right to see.

Everyone has the right to die. What you're arguing for is another person's right to help take a life.

That's the law that needs to be looked at. No sense in obfuscating the issue with moralistic and emotive personal scenarios.

I'm not obfuscating anything I think the poll is straightfoward, enabling the right to die would mean those assisting would be immune from prosecution and/or this could be done under medical supervision.

At the moment those without motor function are denied the use of their own will in wishing to die.

To use your analogy this is like refusing those who have no motor function of the legs the use of a wheelchair.

9959

MadsL wrote: »

Err. The second option is No, no-one should have this right did you want one especially referring to you?

You'll always have some people bellyaching about the poll options on this forum, what about this, but you forgot about that, etc.

As far as I'm concerned, the poll is fine.
I voted yes.

mrm

bullets wrote: »

no option in the poll for people who would never ever ever ever want to take their own life no matter what the circumstances ?????

Have had family die a slow horrible death via cancer but I've always said to myself if it ever happened to me no matter how much pain or
how indignant I felt regardless to circumstances I would cling to every single minute of life I have for as long as possible regardless of how good or **** that might be.
~B

But this issue is not about you, it more importantly is 'would you allow somebody else their right to decide what they feel is best for themselves'. Allowing somebody else that right does not affect your right to cling to your last breath.

As you have stated you have seen a family member die a slow horrible death. Would you be happy to have denied them a choice to exercise their right to an assisted death, if they so wished?

The right to choose does not make 'assisted death' mandatory for all.

Tasden

I really don't know what way I would vote. Only recently I watched someone I love die a slow and painful death. She was pretty much robbed of her dignity due to her illness. And its for this reason that I would say its up to the person.
However on the other hand, the same person would regularly say at tough times that she wants to end it all etc. but then the next day she could be feeling better and enjoying the company of her family and whatever else which makes me think maybe its not a good idea as there is always an element of what if (not really the right phrase but can't think of a better word).

token56

Absolutely everyone should have this right and if I was in a similar position I would want to exercise it. I really hope the court see sense in this case but I very much doubt they will unfortunately.

kippy

My name is URL wrote: »

People in wheelchairs have a right to walk.. those blind have a right to see.

Everyone has the right to die. What you're arguing for is another person's right to help take a life.

That's the law that needs to be looked at. No sense in obfuscating the issue with moralistic and emotive personal scenarios.

This is the issue, 100%. It's not the right of the individual to die. It is the right of that individual to have someone assist them with their death and the repercussions for that individual afterwards.
This is not a straightforward matter.

The Big Red Button

bullets wrote: »

no option in the poll for people who would never ever ever ever want to take their own life no matter what the circumstances ?????

Have had family die a slow horrible death via cancer but I've always said to myself if it ever happened to me no matter how much pain or
how indignant I felt regardless to circumstances I would cling to every single minute of life I have for as long as possible regardless of how good or **** that might be.
~B

bullets wrote: »

Maybe that is true.....but I have thought about it a lot in the past after seeing
people I know and family die from various illnesses, and some of who just wanted to end it all for the sake of the rest of the family not wanting to be a burden and I've a long time ago come to the decision if that ever happened to me that I would want to last as long as I could and fight any illness to my last dying breath before giving up.

~B

Yeah, and that's your prerogative. It's your choice, and not a thing wrong with choosing to live it out to the end. It's probably what I'd choose, too.

No one is suggesting some sort of 'compulsory euthanasia' policy; where you're put to death if you get very ill and incapacitated.

What's being proposed is allowing every individual to choose life or death. As long as they have the mental capacity to do so - even if they're no longer physically capable of taking matters into their own hands.

I think that it's very sad that those often most in need of the option of the final relief of their pain, at a time and manner of their choosing, are denied it. I really feel for those close to them, too. Can't even imagine how tough it must be.

cartell_best

I voted Yes in the poll, purely down to my own beliefs. I would have no hesitation in helping someone I love soo much, that is going through an excruciating and prolonged death, help them pass away, regardless of the consequences. By the way, that is not a flippant or cyber bravery statement. I have always made it clear to my family that should they ever end up in a situation where I need to be resuscitated and where I am practically rendered "physically dead", that there is not repeated attempts to restart nothing more than a brain that has no other purpose but a jagged line on a screen, simply because technology keeps that part of my body functioning, regardless. If a human being is living a life of unimaginable pain, is it not their choice to decide to call it a day?

If a person has been stripped of every other aspect of their life, their very existence is probably the last say they have in their heart breaking life, and it must be and always has to be their choice.

The Irish Government? Look what they did to Savita Halappanavar.. If they couldn't help such a lady to stay alive, what chance does a person, who wants to die through assisted suicide, have? What is wrong with this picture? Somebody who wants to live, is denied that very right and another human being who wants to die, is denied that right.

Pottler

bullets wrote: »

no option in the poll for people who would never ever ever ever want to take their own life no matter what the circumstances ?????

Have had family die a slow horrible death via cancer but I've always said to myself if it ever happened to me no matter how much pain or
how indignant I felt regardless to circumstances I would cling to every single minute of life I have for as long as possible regardless of how good or **** that might be.
~B

You're on your own with that one. Soon as I know the end is nigh, I'm checking out, hopefuly on my own terms. I've an animalistic view, the way it is now is the way it always will be, and when the time comes, I'll check out, if I still have power in my limbs. I went to visit an elderly relative in hospital when I was 22. I started smoking the next day. I have no desire to cling to life regardless of my physical state, and no desire to live forever. When my bodys done, I'm done too. Not one bit flippant there either.

MadsL

Judging by the poll why the hell don't we have this legislation already??

im invisible

Why all this upset about young-ones killing themselves then?

kowloon

MadsL wrote: »

Judging by the poll why the hell don't we have this legislation already??

I'd guess AH, and Boards in general are way out of line with public opinion.

That said, this is a court investigation, so it's probably way out of line with public opinion too.

Scruffles

am all for terminaly ill people having the right to choose when they go and have that final step of control;rather than their illness taking that control away from them and allowing them to drop into a pit of distress and suffering.
someone mentioned earlier in the thread; the guy who had 'locked in syndrome',it was disgusting how he went through all that fight to be denied then he suffered terribly through pneumonia to get what he wanted.
it shoudnt have to be like that,people shoudnt have to go to another country to do it; they shoud be able to choose.

there is one major issue have got with assisted euthanasia or whatever want to call it,as someone who was born severely disabled and lived in institutional and residential care since a late teen,it is a major issue to self that those of us with mental capacity limitations woud be manipulated into euthanasia because we are seen as burdens by many.

they woud need to have legal confrences for every euthanasia case with as many different people including independant people as possible to make sure the impact of their suffering is made clear and it is not something being taken advantage of by family or support staff.

four years ago had lived in a council run learning disability residential home where one staff had encouraged self to attempt suicide,she regulary said am a burden on all staff and residents and said am fat and worthless,on one shift she walked into bedroom and threw a blade at self and said 'finish yerself off with that',luckily had not understood what she meant but had reported her and she just got suspended then moved to another residential in the company.
-if severely and profoundly disabled people are perfectly fine with their lives how woud we avoid crap support staff being able to take advantage of us?
it is very difficult to know what to support when its at such an early stage of discussion.

marcsignal

yes

Gaynna

Everyone should have the right to die, even if they have a clean bill of health. If someone goes through counseling and they still want to die, then euthanize them. Parents should also have the right to euthanize children born with disabilities, like Downs syndrome, and deformities, like missing limbs etc..

jenniferalan

Gaynna wrote: »

Everyone should have the right to die, even if they have a clean bill of health. If someone goes through counseling and they still want to die, then euthanize them. Parents should also have the right to euthanize children born with disabilities, like Downs syndrome, and deformities, like missing limbs etc..

I do not agree with u there, why do u think parents should be given the right to euthanise their children?

Stheno

bullets wrote: »

Maybe that is true.....but I have thought about it a lot in the past after seeing
people I know and family die from various illnesses, and some of who just wanted to end it all for the sake of the rest of the family not wanting to be a burden and I've a long time ago come to the decision if that ever happened to me that I would want to last as long as I could and fight any illness to my last dying breath before giving up.

~B

Tasden wrote: »

I really don't know what way I would vote. Only recently I watched someone I love die a slow and painful death. She was pretty much robbed of her dignity due to her illness. And its for this reason that I would say its up to the person.
However on the other hand, the same person would regularly say at tough times that she wants to end it all etc. but then the next day she could be feeling better and enjoying the company of her family and whatever else which makes me think maybe its not a good idea as there is always an element of what if (not really the right phrase but can't think of a better word).

Pottler wrote: »

You're on your own with that one. Soon as I know the end is nigh, I'm checking out, hopefuly on my own terms. I've an animalistic view, the way it is now is the way it always will be, and when the time comes, I'll check out, if I still have power in my limbs. I went to visit an elderly relative in hospital when I was 22. I started smoking the next day. I have no desire to cling to life regardless of my physical state, and no desire to live forever. When my bodys done, I'm done too. Not one bit flippant there either.

What Pottler said essentially.

Tell me I've a fatal illness, let me enjoy life and have the medical treatment to do as much as I want to be it travelling the world, completing the top five on my bucket list, but dear god, don't leave me a wasted hulk in a bed, taking up hospital resources every time I unconsciously groan and my family fear that in my near death state, I'm in pain.

I've been through it, and I much prefer the option I had with my dogs. They were terminally ill, they knew it (in as much as I understand it) they got a last day out, then sedation and a quick injection and that was it.

Compare that to my dad, he was told he was dying and nothing would stop it, he said goodbye in his own special way to all of his children (I still cherish that time, one of the most important memories I have), got to see his friends and family before he died, then we spent two and a half agonising days watching him in an unconscious state waiting to die.
Why? Given the choice, I'd say goodbye to everyone when there was nothing left to save me, and die at a time and place of my choosing surrounded by my loved ones.

im invisible wrote: »

Why all this upset about young-ones killing themselves then?

Suicide due to non terminal illness is an entirely different topic.

Stheno

jenniferalan wrote: »

I do not agree with u there, why do u think parents should be given the right to euthanise their children?

It's happening in the Uk at the moment.

I don't agree with that, but I think any adult should have the choice, including children from about 14 onwards.

im invisible

>Suicide due to non terminal illness is an entirely different topic.

I dont know so much about that. Why does anyone kill themselves? What makes one persons reasons any less valid than anyone elses?

Stheno

im invisible wrote: »

I dont know so much about that. Why does anyone kill themselves? What makes one persons reasons any less valid than anyone elses?

What post are you referring to?

Eutow

bullets wrote: »

no option in the poll for people who would never ever ever ever want to take their own life no matter what the circumstances ?????

Have had family die a slow horrible death via cancer but I've always said to myself if it ever happened to me no matter how much pain or
how indignant I felt regardless to circumstances I would cling to every single minute of life I have for as long as possible regardless of how good or **** that might be.
~B

Maybe your opinion might change if you can't do basic things for yourself, such as going to the toilet, washing, eating etc. As for me, if I can't do the basic stuff myself then I want to die. I would have no quality of life and I would find it degrading to me that I would need somebody to wash me or help me go to the toilet for the rest of my life. What is the point if I am in constant pain all the time and I can't do the basics for myself?

As for an assisted suicide from somebody else, if I was still able to declare somehow that I wanted somebody to help me die, I would be in favour of it. How this would be worded and enforced by law would need to be carefully looked at to prevent somebody dying from assisted suicide that didn't want to die that way.

Stheno

Eutow wrote: »

Maybe your opinion might change if you can't do basic things for yourself, such as going to the toilet, washing, eating etc. As for me, if I can't do the basic stuff myself then I want to die. I would have no quality of life and I would find it degrading to me that I would need somebody to wash me or help me go to the toilet for the rest of my life. What is the point if I am in constant pain all the time and I can't do the basics for myself?

This is where I'd be conflicted.

My dad was diagnosed with cancer five years before it killed him. My partner is currently going through those last days with his mother after her third battle with cancer seems that cancer is going to win this time

My dad didn't have that quality of life you describe several times during those five years, so much so that even in remission, he never got to do stuff our family wanted to treat him to, like a trip to Croke park, or Landsdowne Road, every family occasion he was at, he posed for photos, had a couple of pints and left.

When he became terminally ill, it was terribly sudden, two weeks from "nothing more we can do" to him dying literally

We all got to see him (I'm from a big big family), we all got our private time with him, probably the time I most cherish apart from my private time with him was when he was moved to the hospice suite, and one of the last things he did consciously was guide me to which tv station he wanted to watch/hear.

The almost three days after were unnecessary, like a dreadfully long wait, everyone he wanted to see had been, he'd seen them, talked to them, was peaceful and accepting he was going to die.

Why did he/his relatives have to go through those days? What point did it serve? I'd not want it for myself?

Eutow

Stheno wrote: »

This is where I'd be conflicted.

My dad was diagnosed with cancer five years before it killed him. My partner is currently going through those last days with his mother after her third battle with cancer seems that cancer is going to win this time

My dad didn't have that quality of life you describe several times during those five years, so much so that even in remission, he never got to do stuff our family wanted to treat him to, like a trip to Croke park, or Landsdowne Road, every family occasion he was at, he posed for photos, had a couple of pints and left.

When he became terminally ill, it was terribly sudden, two weeks from "nothing more we can do" to him dying literally

We all got to see him (I'm from a big big family), we all got our private time with him, probably the time I most cherish apart from my private time with him was when he was moved to the hospice suite, and one of the last things he did consciously was guide me to which tv station he wanted to watch/hear.

The almost three days after were unnecessary, like a dreadfully long wait, everyone he wanted to see had been, he'd seen them, talked to them, was peaceful and accepting he was going to die.

Why did he/his relatives have to go through those days? What point did it serve? I'd not want it for myself?

Sorry to hear that. I wouldn't force my opinion on anyone and I would not say to you those days were a waste and what is the point. Everyone is different though. Some people will want to live to the day they die naturally, either through personal choice or religious reasons no matter what difficulties they are experiencing. I can only speak for myself but I would rather die by assisted suicide than go through what I described in my previous post. There are other people that would be of a similar mindset to me, and as the law currently stands, there is no way for us to go they way we want to go.

Stheno

Eutow wrote: »

Sorry to hear that. I wouldn't force my opinion on anyone and I would not say to you those days were a waste and what is the point. Everyone is different though. Some people will want to live to the day they die naturally, either through personal choice or religious reasons no matter what difficulties they are experiencing. I can only speak for myself but I would rather die by assisted suicide than go through what I described in my previous post. There are other people that would be of a similar mindset to me, and as the law currently stands, there is no way for us to go they way we want to go.

I'd have preferred that once my dad went into a coma like state, he got a large dose of morphine and that was it.

Not allowable here, instead as his family we had many false "is he dead" episodes, the nurses were called constantly;.

Kinder to him and us if at that stage we were allowed to make a decision with his consent beforehand.

Eutow

Stheno wrote: »

I'd have preferred that once my dad went into a coma like state, he got a large dose of morphine and that was it.

Not allowable here, instead as his family we had many false "is he dead" episodes, the nurses were called constantly;.

Kinder to him and us if at that stage we were allowed to make a decision with his consent beforehand.

How that is worded properly and becomes law is the problem. I think Switzerland has assisted suicide. I would like to know how they have enforced it and what problems have arised because of it.

Another problem would be if somebody wanted to die by assisted suicide but that person is unable to communicate that message to allow that to happen.

Stheno

Eutow wrote: »

How that is worded properly and becomes law is the problem. I think Switzerland has assisted suicide. I would like to know how they have enforced it and what problems have arised because of it.

Another problem would be if somebody wanted to die by assisted suicide but that person is unable to communicate that message to allow that to happen.

Agree 100% I know my father (much and as I found his death distressing) wanted his death in accordance with his faith ( he was a very devout Catholic) would never have agreed to it.

I would in the form of a living will, I'm getting to that age where I think about such things and in the next year will visit a solicitor to hopefully appoint a medical guardian, document my wishes and hope they are abided by.