Players you didnt think would make it but did

lala88

The question is often asked about players that people taught would make it but didnt, but what about players people taught would never make it but did?

I remember about 10 years ago seeing Paul Galvin playing in a league game and thinking that would be the last id see of him with Kerry.

Also i remember someone telling me when he was a minor that Marc O Se was going to be the next big thing and remember seeing him play with the minors that year and thinking if hes the next big thing things must be bad.

Both have gone on to win Player of the Year, won countless All Stars, All Irelands etc

Juniorhurler

I saw Henry shefflin as a minor and although he looked a very talented stickman he also.looked like he would never manage his weight/physique well enough to make it imo at the time.
The lesson here is to never put any weight in my opinion as I clearly don't know my arse from a hole in the ground when it comes to judging hurlers based on the above.

Fireball07

Bryan Sheehan- always thought he was talented, superb free-taker but was never convinced that he'd be a proper intercounty class player. His move to midfield really transformed him imo.

Richie McCarthy for Limerick, performed superbly at full-back this year.

Ando's Saggy Bottom

Wasn't sure about Big Dan for a fair few years in a Waterford jersey before it all clicked.

MfMan

Remember seeing both Sean De Paor and Ollie Canning playing for Galway teams in attack and thought they were ordinary. How things were to change subsequently.

whatnext

Brian Stafford. He had hands like a sieve and then one day it clicked, around 1986.

Frankie Lee

Emmet Bolton, he was atrocious in his first 2 or 3 years in the Kildare but like a few others improved beyond recognition under McGeeney and Grimley.

I remeber in 07 against Meath he was probably the main reason we got hammered as Peader Byrne did what he liked.

cormac halpin

lala88 wrote: »

The question is often asked about players that people taught would make it but didnt, but what about players people taught would never make it but did?

I remember about 10 years ago seeing Paul Galvin playing in a league game and thinking that would be the last id see of him with Kerry.

Also i remember someone telling me when he was a minor that Marc O Se was going to be the next big thing and remember seeing him play with the minors that year and thinking if hes the next big thing things must be bad.

Both have gone on to win Player of the Year, won countless All Stars, All Irelands etc

I'm starting to think you may not be the best judge of a player

premierstone

Bonner Maher, seen quite a bit of him with he's club and then as a county minor and while he had an uncanny knack of winning 50/50 balls I thought that with he's lack of vision and terrible distribution he would never make it, probably one of the first names on the Tipp team sheet now and was named Munster Hurler of the Year last week

The_Kew_Tour

John Brown the former Cork Hurling full back.

Deco99

Paudie Kissane/John Miskella. Not 100% but these guys were into their thirties before becoming regulars. Surely they must have thought to themselves at some stage they wouldnt have ended up with an all-ireland medal.

blue note

I gave up hope on Shane O'Sullivan making the step up that I thought he was capable. He was nearly there for 4 or 5 years, but a bit of a late bloomer it seems.

Shane Walsh also. I didn't feel he was a natural enough hurler. He's proved that doesn't matter, he's still an excellent full forward. Although it must be said, he has improved his stickwork as well.

lala88

Tomas O Se was another when he first came along. Remember him playing Cork in 98 in his first game was was roasted and didnt play another game that year and taught that would be the last we would see of him. Even Darragh O Se was another who i didnt think would make it. The 3 of them were helped some what by the fact that Paidi was in charge when they were starting out so were maybe given more chances then others might have been

cormac halpin

lala88 wrote: »

Tomas O Se was another when he first came along. Remember him playing Cork in 98 in his first game was was roasted and didnt play another game that year and taught that would be the last we would see of him. Even Darragh O Se was another who i didnt think would make it. The 3 of them were helped some what by the fact that Paidi was in charge when they were starting out so were maybe given more chances then others might have been

Holy Jesus man, you've now named 3 Players of the Year and one who should have got it also! As for the O'Sé's, regardless of Páidi their undoubted class shone through at underage level and would have done the same at Senior level in due course.

lala88

cormac halpin wrote: »

Holy Jesus man, you've now named 3 Players of the Year and one who should have got it also! As for the O'Sé's, regardless of Páidi their undoubted class shone through at underage level and would have done the same at Senior level in due course.

I wouldnt think so. All 3 were average enough minors. Darragh only played one minor game with Kerry. He was helped by the fact Paidi took over as Under 21 manager the next year so wasw only to be given a more of a chance then others.

Like i said Tomas was roasted in his first few Championship games before being moved to wing back. Same with Marc in his first few years he was well out of his dept and another player would have been dropped and never seen again

cormac halpin

lala88 wrote: »

I wouldnt think so. All 3 were average enough minors. Darragh only played one minor game with Kerry. He was helped by the fact Paidi took over as Under 21 manager the next year so wasw only to be given a more of a chance then others.

Like i said Tomas was roasted in his first few Championship games before being moved to wing back. Same with Marc in his first few years he was well out of his dept and another player would have been dropped and never seen again

I refuse to believe Marc O'Se would have "dropped and never seen again". This was Kerry when Paidi Reidy got numerous cracks of the whip. You're grossly exaggerating.

Diabhal Beag

Ross McConnell was somebody I'd have never thought would win an All-Ireland medal. Jaysus he had some shocking performances.

cormac halpin

Diabhal Beag wrote: »

Ross McConnell was somebody I'd have never thought would win an All-Ireland medal. Jaysus he had some shocking performances.

Was he not only a sub on an All Ireland winning side? I don't think he even came on in the final? They even used Fennell before him!

lala88

cormac halpin wrote: »

I refuse to believe Marc O'Se would have "dropped and never seen again". This was Kerry when Paidi Reidy got numerous cracks of the whip. You're grossly exaggerating.

you clearly never seen him play when he was a minor then! He was very poor in his first few years on the panel. Reidy was very good in his first few years but was cast aside when he wasnt up to it. It was very smiler to Marc O Se only he was poor at the start and became a great player

keane2097

lala is correct in saying that Marc and Tomás both had extremely inauspicious starts to their Kerry senior careers. For a long time Galvin looked like an average player as well.

I didn't think a whole lot of Anthony Maher when I first saw him but have been very impressed with him these last two years.

68Murph68

keane2097 wrote: »

lala is correct in saying that Marc and Tomás both had extremely inauspicious starts to their Kerry senior careers. For a long time Galvin looked like an average player as well.

I didn't think a whole lot of Anthony Maher when I first saw him but have been very impressed with him these last two years.

Yup Marc really looked out of his depth initially.

+1 on the Galvin looked like nothing special for the longest time.

Tom Joad

Remember seeing Galvin play early on and thinking he wasn't good enough for the jersey but he is an example of why Kerry win so many all-Irelands. He was the right man for the job at a time when Kerry needed to change their style of play to match the northern way of playing. Am not sure he would have made it to the county panel in a lot of other counties. I've also heard some people around Lixnaw say he is a better hurler than footballer..

Benny Cake

Stephen Kelly of Limerick. Played against him at underage and while he had unquestionable talent, I never saw him having the temperament to make the step to the next level. In fairness, he has proved his doubters wrong and has been a great servant to Limerick football.....

Mountainlad

Didn't think Lar Corbett would ever produce the form he showed between 2008 and 2011.

Fireball07

Mountainlad wrote: »

Didn't think Lar Corbett would ever produce the form he showed between 2008 and 2011.

+1


Lar became one of the most dangerous forwards in Ireland, 2nd to only Eddie Brennan as a goalscorer imo but in his first years in a Tipp jersey, I'd never have feared him. Won an all-ireland in 2001 but wasn't one of their main men (although he was only young then).

cormac halpin

Thank God none of the lads on here are intercounty managers, I just hope they're not involved in teams at all, they'd have cast aside some of the best talents of their generation. Never a better example of how easy it is to be the man behind the wire.

DDC1990

cormac halpin wrote: »

Thank God none of the lads on here are intercounty managers, I just hope they're not involved in teams at all, they'd have cast aside some of the best talents of their generation. Never a better example of how easy it is to be the man behind the wire.

Just because a guy doesn't look good at underage, doesn't mean that he won't make it at senior, or will be "cast aside"

Galvin was thuroughly underwhelming as an intercounty footballer in the early days, as was Donaghy when he was a midfielder. Marc was undersized to begin with and found it tough to deal with the more physical forwards, though he always looked good going forward.

On the other hand, some players look full of potential when they are young and never fulfill it.
Paddy Curran, Barry John Walsh, Pádraig Reidy (bit harsh considering his medal haul), Declan Quill.

Thats just football, guys develop into talents at a later age... im just waiting for my burst to come

cormac halpin

DDC1990 wrote: »

Just because a guy doesn't look good at underage, doesn't mean that he won't make it at senior, or will be "cast aside"

Galvin was thuroughly underwhelming as an intercounty footballer in the early days, as was Donaghy when he was a midfielder. Marc was undersized to begin with and found it tough to deal with the more physical forwards, though he always looked good going forward.

On the other hand, some players look full of potential when they are young and never fulfill it.
Paddy Curran, Barry John Walsh, Pádraig Reidy (bit harsh considering his medal haul), Declan Quill.

Thats just football, guys develop into talents at a later age... im just waiting for my burst to come

Your burst could still come, its never too late if you have the guts and determination and small bit of talent. Luck plays a part of course, but no one ever got anywhere without a bit of determination and self belief, there'll be enough out there to cut you down, as we've noticed already on this thread. Declan O Sullivan was boo'd off the field by his own supporters once remember. At the end of the day, all you have is yourself.

With regards to the topic at hand I think you'll find there was one fella used the words "dropped and never seen again" in relation to a Footballer of the Year. I think you'll find not to many fellas with the potential to be Footballer of the Year would ever allow themselves to be never seen again, the O'Sé's were made of sturdier stuff than that. Marc always had a touch of class, it was plain as day, he was caught going backwards on occasion, but anyone who has a bit of an eye could see he had something once he added some more guile and size to himself.

Curran suffered two cruciate injuries, Barry John isn't gone yet, Reidy has a fine medal haul but eventually began to get caught out, but was never going to be a footballer of the year, Quill had other issues. None of the above is in the same league as an O'Sé.

DDC1990

cormac halpin wrote: »

Your burst could still come, its never too late if you have the guts and determination and small bit of talent. Luck plays a part of course, but no one ever got anywhere without a bit of determination and self belief, there'll be enough out there to cut you down, as we've noticed already on this thread. Declan O Sullivan was boo'd off the field by his own supporters once remember. At the end of the day, all you have is yourself.

With regards to the topic at hand I think you'll find there was one fella used the words "dropped and never seen again" in relation to a Footballer of the Year. I think you'll find not to many fellas with the potential to be Footballer of the Year would ever allow themselves to be never seen again, the O'Sé's were made of sturdier stuff than that. Marc always had a touch of class, it was plain as day, he was caught going backwards on occasion, but anyone who has a bit of an eye could see he had something once he added some more guile and size to himself.

Curran suffered two cruciate injuries, Barry John isn't gone yet, Reidy has a fine medal haul but eventually began to get caught out, but was never going to be a footballer of the year, Quill had other issues. None of the above is in the same league as an O'Sé.

Exactly, but my point is that at various stages of their careers, they looked better then Marc did at that age.

Obviously its in Marc's DNA, but you can't bank on that as a manager. I would never have dropped Marc totally from the panel, but I would have been doubtful that he would make such an enourmous impact on the game.

Luckily I, and the majority of the county were wrong.

Declan being booed was a horrific incident. He was a victim of circumstance, if I recall. He was never an effective wing forward, but an excellent center forward and full forward.

However Jack was trying to shoehorn phsicality into the team by playing Éamonn Fitzmaurice at CF (correct me if i'm wrong), shifting Declan out to the wing. Fitzy was a great CB but with Moynihan there he was never going to play. Not only that, but when the Fitzy experiment went tits up, Tommy Griffen was brought on at Midfield and Brosnan shifted to CF, still leaving Declan marginalised. The whole team was having a stinker, and we were being beat out the door. Declan as captain obviously took flack, and was booed coming off the field, as many believed that he was being played because of his connection to Jack.

Stupid stuff from the "fans" to boo your own captain, and stupid stuff from Jack to díck about like that in a Munster final. Still alls well that ends well eh?

keane2097

Request thread title change to "Players I always knew would come good, because I'm great. Especially when aftertiming."

blue note

Michael Fennelly was one that I didn't think was ever going to be quite up to Kilkenny starting 15 standard. He has certainly proved me wrong!

Juniorhurler

blue note wrote: »

Michael Fennelly was one that I didn't think was ever going to be quite up to Kilkenny starting 15 standard. He has certainly proved me wrong!

Kind of thought the same tbh.

lala88

cormac halpin wrote: »

Thank God none of the lads on here are intercounty managers, I just hope they're not involved in teams at all, they'd have cast aside some of the best talents of their generation. Never a better example of how easy it is to be the man behind the wire.

Did you actually see them play when they first played? If you had you whould know that they were poor and had there been another manager at the time they wouldnt have been given the chances they got

cormac halpin

lala88 wrote: »

Did you actually see them play when they first played? If you had you whould know that they were poor and had there been another manager at the time they wouldnt have been given the chances they got

You seem to have a bit of a problem with the O'Sé family.

Cosmo Kramer

Was distinctly unimpressed with Barry Moran for about six seasons until this year. Still has a bit to go, but a few more years like 2012 and he will have surprised most Mayo supporters I think with his improvement.

It's also not that long since Andy Moran was known as 'ever-present Andy' as he always started but never did much. Probably more to do with poor management of the player in hindsight - he has been outstanding under James Horan.

lala88

cormac halpin wrote: »

You seem to have a bit of a problem with the O'Sé family.

No i dont why would i? As i said you clearly never seen them playing when they first stated out. Then again you are the person who thinks its better for Laois hurlers to stay in a championship were they get 30 plus point beatings

cormac halpin

lala88 wrote: »

No i dont why would i? As i said you clearly never seen them playing when they first stated out. Then again you are the person who thinks its better for Laois hurlers to stay in a championship were they get 30 plus point beatings

I have no idea why you would, but you give off every appearance of it.

And as for Laois and the weaker hurling counties, I dont believe relegating a side to the dregs will really help hurling in a weaker county. Ringfence hurling for the traditional powers, thats the way forward. Good man, thats the sort of thinking needed. You're a keeper for sure.

lala88

cormac halpin wrote: »

I have no idea why you would, but you give off every appearance of it.

And as for Laois and the weaker hurling counties, I dont believe relegating a side to the dregs will really help hurling in a weaker county. Ringfence hurling for the traditional powers, thats the way forward. Good man, thats the sort of thinking needed. You're a keeper for sure.

But getting hammered every year is the way to help them? Yes good man indeed thats really the way to think.....

cormac halpin

lala88 wrote: »

But getting hammered every year is the way to help them? Yes good man indeed thats really the way to think.....

No, getting your house in order is the way to solve it. Laois have been having internal issues for years, they're well documented, but it was only a couple of years ago they ran a good Limerick team to a point and they beat Clare last year in the league. Laois hurling is not doomed, its just badly mismanaged, sending them to the dregs of intercounty hurling would destroy the game there and do nothing to help hurling in the country as a whole.

davegrohl48

Andy Moran would fit this category. At one stage he was moved to half back which didn't suit him when taller half forwards were placed on him. But the difference in his game in the last 2/3 years is incredible. It would be interesting to see the difference in scoring, assists, frees won compared to his early seasons.
At the same time as this there was a big change in him physically. He really hit the gym with a dedication. You could see the difference in his strength on the pitch.
Maybe a similar case with Paul Galvin. Pretty sure he made his league debut under lights coming on as a sub and he looked too small to be effective at intercounty level. He bulked up a lot.

premierstone

Jesus lala don't lower yourself to he's level, he knows everything shur. Very bad idea to argue with an idiot, they will drag you down to their level and inevitably win as they have had far more practice at it.

LeoB

Pat Gilroy and Ger Brennan.

Didnt like Gilroy when I saw him play at first. Then I refereed a match he was playing in and you could see how good he was. No world beater but he got his All-Ireland. Ger Brennan I thought would be assigned to the scrap heap after a few "Red Mist" performances. but he has turned his game around and done well.

Would agree with the Andy Moran comment, he is like anew man. Seamus Scanlon was player I was not impressed by at all but then I didnt see that much of him. Towards the end of his career I think he done a great job for Kerry.

kksaints

Richie Power. Thought he was too weak a few years ago.

Eoin Larkin at first. Didnt think he was good enough in his early Kilkenny performances.

Max Power

Emmet Bolton-Kildare. Remember watching him in a league game where he was playing corner back, he was roasted that day but has improved a lot under McGeeney and is now a fine footballer.

glasagusban

Wayne McNamara. Didn't have the hurling and couldn't even strike a ball when he arrived along first. Now his first touch is still not first class but he's now a physically dominating wing back and can clear the ball well and is even bursting up the field scoring goals! No world beater yet but surely the most improved hurled in Ireland.

Fireball07

blue note wrote: »

Michael Fennelly was one that I didn't think was ever going to be quite up to Kilkenny starting 15 standard. He has certainly proved me wrong!

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

Was distinctly unimpressed with Barry Moran for about six seasons until this year. Still has a bit to go, but a few more years like 2012 and he will have surprised most Mayo supporters I think with his improvement.

I'd agree with both of these too. Barry Moran, in particular, was someone I did not rate at all but he had a fantastic year this year. Suppose he has to do it again, players can have a flash-in-the-pan good season.

cormac halpin

premierstone wrote: »

he knows everything shur

Appreciated.

premierstone

cormac halpin wrote: »

Appreciated.

No problem friend, I'm sure all compliments are greatly received by yourself.

cormac halpin

premierstone wrote: »

No problem friend, I'm sure all compliments are greatly received by yourself.

Life is a short opera my friend, we take the laurels when and where they arrive.

Prop Joe

Bryan Cullen,Still can't phantom how he captained the Dubs to AI glory,Was better in the backs to be fair.
Dessie Dolan was a player i always thought was over-rated,Changed my mind after GarryCastles run last year.
Aidan Walsh is another i think the jury is still out on,Young Player of the year and all
Bryan Sheehan was one i never thought would do,Top class MF now
Declan O Sullivan the year he was captain i thought he was gonna vanish off the panel,1 of the best of this generation
Eoin Brosnan,Was a nothing player when played in the forwards,Top class CB now though
Kieran Donaghy,Was a very average MF,Became the best FF in the game for a period
Ciaran McKeever is another i think has done very little at Inter County level for a player who is held in high regard

Swiper the fox

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

John Brown the former Cork Hurling full back.

I've just nominated his brother Alan in the tough players thread. Three boys from the Browne household went on to play for Cork, I'd say it's fair to say that at 18 none of them would have been given much chance, I played underage the same time as Alan and he wasn't even one of the best 3 hurlers on a fairly average Blackrock team, funnily enough in fact the best player they had was the current Cork physio Deccie O'Sullivan.
It's hard to tell before u21, it's not the thread for players who didn't make it and I feel it's always unfair to talk about guys like that, another guy from my age group was the footballer Ronan McCarthy from Douglas, he was an average enough underage player who had a decent intercounty career, the same could be said for Martin Cronin from Nemo. None of the guys I mentioned were superstars but still they all played in All Ireland finals.