BMW 318/320D v 520D

Jazzzman

Hi folks,

I'm considering purchasing a 2007 BMW 318/320D, but I've noticed that for roughly 1k extra you'll find a much better equipped/looking 520D (nice extras, leather, sat nav etc.).

I've read that both cars boast 50mpg (a reach no doubt) so fuel cost would appear to be similar. This is important as I will be putting a fair amount of mileage on it.

My questions are am I setting myself up for much higher costs when it comes to 520D repairs and parts? Or is there anything else I should be aware of when choosing between both models.

I've got it in my head that the 3 series will be cheaper in the long run, but perhaps I'm wrong.

Thanks

Leonard Hofstadter

I would be much more concerned by the potential timing chain failure that affects the models with 'Efficient Dynamics' built between 2007 and 2010 than any potential extra cost of owning a 520d over a 320d. I would go for a 525d or 530d, yes the tax is higher, but a) you only live once, b) it will be cheaper to buy because of the aforementioned higher tax, c) it will be a lot nicer to drive having 6 rather than 4 cylinders, and d) it doesn't have the timing chain problem, which can cost over €6,000 to replace when it goes.

318d/320d/520d built before September 2007 (122/163 bhp) and after February 2010 (184 bhp for the 320d/520d) do not have this problem and are a LOT more reliable. Avoid all 320d/520d with the 177 bhp engine.

Idbatterim

I would definetly take the 5 series, the only difference I can see in running costs is fractionally more fuel on the 5 as its heavier...

Idbatterim

d) it doesn't have the timing chain problem, which can cost over €6,000 to replace when it goes.

the timing chain is often mentioned, I hear huge figures being bandied about as to the cost IF this chain fails under the current potential new owner. What is the cost of parts only for this repair?

McGrath5

Go for the 5 Series OP, if can stretch to a 6 cylinder version all the better.

Leonard Hofstadter

Idbatterim wrote: »

the timing chain is often mentioned, I hear huge figures being bandied about as to the cost IF this chain fails under the current potential new owner. What is the cost of parts only for this repair?

The reason it's so expensive to do this is because BMW in their infinite wisdom decided to put the timing chain at the back of the engine, which means that the engine has to come out for the chain to be replaced. The problem is that the crankshaft sprocket wasn't properly made, which eventually causes the chain to stretch. Simply replacing the chain will only temporarily fix this design disaster from BMW. If the timing chain was in the proper place it would be only about half of that figure.

When Toyota had the oil burning problem with the VVTi engines (which is nothing like as expensive to put right) they replaced several short blocks on the QT and didn't tell anyone. They also extended the engine warranty so that if the oil burning problem happened before 100,000 miles or 10 years (whichever is sooner) the owner wouldn't be out of pocket. That's what BMW should be doing, instead they are being totally arrogant and refusing to admit that the problem exists yet they changed the design anyway.

Jazzzman

Is the 6 cylinder available on the 520D?

Thanks for the heads up on the timing chain. 6k or anything close to that is a serious wedge.

So the 2006 model would be a safer bet.

ian87

I have a 177bhp 08 320d edition se. Huge spec. Test drove the 318d and a 520d. Thought the 520d was a nicer drive but it felt sluggish. It's a heavy car for the engine, it needs the 6 cylinder imo. I didn't go for the 318d as I knew if be kicking myself every time a 320d pulled up beside me. I'm getting 48.7 to 50.4 mpg on a good mix of roads. 650 miles to a tank costing circa 90 to fill at today's prices. I know I could get more but my right foot can be heavy at times. After coming out of a 2.0tdi Audi I found it a nice change. The power is spread out across the rev range rather in one big lump in the audi. You have to work the engine harder but far nicer. My only prob was the mileage I do meant I just couldn't stretch to a 335d.. Next time, fingers crossed!

Leonard Hofstadter

Jazzzman wrote: »

Is the 6 cylinder available on the 520D?

Thanks for the heads up on the timing chain. 6k or anything close to that is a serious wedge.

So the 2006 model would be a safer bet.

No, six cylinder refers to the engine:). The 520d is a 2.0 litre four cylinder engine. 525d upwards are 2.5 or 3.0 litre six cylinder engines. The 525d upwards are at most €677 to tax on the emissions system (admittedly that could change from tomorrow with the budget, but the gap is likely to remain the same), so are in fact only marginally more expensive to tax for a year than the 520d is on the engine size system. I know which I'd be having;)!

bazz26

ian87 wrote: »

I have a 177bhp 08 320d edition se. Huge spec. Test drove the 318d and a 520d. Thought the 520d was a nicer drive but it felt sluggish. It's a heavy car for the engine, it needs the 6 cylinder imo. I didn't go for the 318d as I knew if be kicking myself every time a 320d pulled up beside me. I'm getting 48.7 to 50.4 mpg on a good mix of roads. 650 miles to a tank costing circa 90 to fill at today's prices. I know I could get more but my right foot can be heavy at times. After coming out of a 2.0tdi Audi I found it a nice change. The power is spread out across the rev range rather in one big lump in the audi. You have to work the engine harder but far nicer. My only prob was the mileage I do meant I just couldn't stretch to a 335d.. Next time, fingers crossed!

A simple remap would get the bhp and torque of the 318d upto where the standard 320d is. I was looking for a 320d also but could not find one with decent enough spec. I eventually found a 318d Edition M Sport with the spec I wanted and have had it remapped since.

ian87

bazz26 wrote: »

A simple remap would get the bhp and torque of the 318d upto where the standard 320d is. I was looking for a 320d also but could not find one with decent enough spec. I eventually found a 318d Edition M Sport with the spec I wanted and have had it remapped since.

I know what you mean Bazz but I really wanted a 330d or 335d so even remapping a 318d when I could get a 320d and remap it wasn't an option. But that's just splitting hairs..

Jazzzman

anymore advice lads?

ian87

If you are a cash buyer, look at British car auctions in the uk. If there is a 320d or 520d for sale on English plates in this country at the mo, chances are its been bought in one of their auctions. Have a look through them, some of them come with mechanical reports. Cut out the middle man here. I know a guy running a garage in the midlands and he buys all his cars from them. He then puts mapfire warranties on them which you can purchase yourself anyway. It's mainly ex lease stuff so full service histories are the norm. You will need to register but could be well worth.

Leonard Hofstadter

As alluded to, you can remap a 318d to 320d levels of power. However, you can't really take a 318d beyond this, as the turbo, injectors and injector pressure are different (smaller/lower pressure) in the 320d engine - the 320d is not just a remapped 318d if you know what I mean. A 320d can be remapped to beyond 325d levels of power, however I'd still rather a 325d for the six cylinders (and a 325d can be remapped to well beyond what a remapped 320d can do).

ShanE90

Jazzzman wrote: »

anymore advice lads?

If your budget can stretch go for a 6cyl 2008 25d or 30d you'll have the benefit of cheaper tax and you won't run the risk with timing chain issue plus it will be more unique as there aren't too many 6cyl d's any more!

Idbatterim

The problem is that the crankshaft sprocket wasn't properly made, which eventually causes the chain to stretch.

Yeah i was aware the engine had to come out. have bmw or any other company made a part to permanently rectify this problem? how many days work is it for a mechanic?

bazz26

From what I have read it is around 16 hours labour. One of the lads over on bmw-driver.net did the job himself recently and detailed it in a thread.

joe 77

I have a 2006 520d Msport, got it remapped, totally changed the driving dynamics of the car , I'm getting between 45-48mpg. I had a 320d before I got the 520d and I just prefer the 5. If you can get a 2006 520d in Msport spec with full leather and auto, get a proper remap and you will have a very nice machine. The 2006 model has the 163bhp M47 engine which isn't affected by the timing chain issues that the newer N47 has, which came in the late 2007 / 2008 LCI model.

Zubeneschamali

Idbatterim wrote: »

the timing chain is often mentioned, I hear huge figures being bandied about as to the cost IF this chain fails under the current potential new owner. What is the cost of parts only for this repair?

New chain: €10
New Engine: €6K

00833827

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

New chain: €10
New Engine: €6K

Didn't realise this was such a problem in these - my mate's 2007 316 had only 45000 miles on clock when the chain went last week. Although its a petrol, is this issue only specific to the diesels of this era?

bazz26

The main issue is with the N47 diesel engine though there were some seperate chain issues with the 1.6 litre petrol in the 1 and 3 Series but these are not on the same scale as the N47 problem. Unless the car is still under BMW warranty then BMW will not want to know.

Blazer

You can get a 520D LCI model 2007 with the older M47 163hp engine as I got one myself
LCI models came in from Mar 2007 and N47 engine came in Sept 2007.

I know of one person personally that had the timing chain issue and the chap over on bmw-drivers.net doing his own rebuild but really...how common is the issue?
Aside from the fact that I think BMW should be replacing these free of charge I don't think its' as common as people make out.

Remember that N47 engine is spread across 1, 3 and 5 series.
How many of these did BMW sell during this? I'm guessing a few hundred thousand and the failure rate is pretty small so I guess that's why BMW aren't being forced to do a recall or facing a class action lawsuit.
Apparently BMW quietly resolved this issue later 2009 so anything after this is fine.
It all depends on what you want to risk?

Tea 1000

Jazzzman wrote: »

anymore advice lads?

The 3 series is nicer to drive, it's more agile and responsive on twisty roads, the 5 series is more comfortable. So you could pick based on which of those aspects you prefer.

Zubeneschamali

Blazer wrote: »

how common is the issue?

How would anyone know?

I know 2 people personally who have a 5 series from those years, and one of them suffered a total engine failure thanks to that sprocket.

So, this scientific survey says 50%.

Idbatterim

the 6k figure seems madness though, say its true and you are looking at 16 hours as has been mentioned to complete the job. Assuming the 6k figure is accurate, are people actually telling me they will pay E375 per hour for Labour? Im in the wrong job. BMW wouldnt even charge you that and be able to look you straight in the face!

bazz26

Have a read of this:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056686927

Blazer

Idbatterim wrote: »

the 6k figure seems madness though, say its true and you are looking at 16 hours as has been mentioned to complete the job. Assuming the 6k figure is accurate, are people actually telling me they will pay E375 per hour for Labour? Im in the wrong job. BMW wouldnt even charge you that and be able to look you straight in the face!

Parts alone are over 4K..
I rang my BMW garage today as I'm due to get new brake pads for my fronts..price quoted? €299
Rang CMC in Limerick (Indy BMW garage) - €150.
Saw Nissan Doctor on a thread doing another car during the week--price..€80 but not sure if they were the OEM pads or not? If only I was closer to Dublin..hell if I got a few things done together the trip up would prob still save me a fortune

Shows you how much gouging goes on at BMW and indeed any of the higher end stuff.

R.O.R

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

How would anyone know?

I know 2 people personally who have a 5 series from those years, and one of them suffered a total engine failure thanks to that sprocket.

So, this scientific survey says 50%.

We have / had quite a few vehicles on fleet with this engine, and as far as I'm aware, we've not experienced this issue with any of our cars.

Only time I've heard of the timing chain issue is one person here and one on bmwdriver.

If it was as common a problem as posts on boards would have you believe, we would have suffered numerous failures based on the numbers of cars we have.

Fingers crossed my N47 survives for a good while longer.

aristotle25

captainspeed wrote: »

No, six cylinder refers to the engine:). The 520d is a 2.0 litre four cylinder engine. 525d upwards are 2.5 or 3.0 litre six cylinder engines. The 525d upwards are at most €677 to tax on the emissions system (admittedly that could change from tomorrow with the budget, but the gap is likely to remain the same), so are in fact only marginally more expensive to tax for a year than the 520d is on the engine size system. I know which I'd be having;)!

e60 525ds from 2007-2010 are 3.0, not 2.5. Pre 2007 are 2.5.

F10 525ds are 2.0

166man

aristotle25 wrote: »

e60 525ds from 2007-2010 are 3.0, not 2.5. Pre 2007 are 2.5.

F10 525ds are 2.0

Thought the 525d was also a 3.0d?

R.O.R

166man wrote: »

Thought the 525d was also a 3.0d?

Early F10 525d's were 3.0 Litres but they've recently (some point early this year I think) a twin turbo 2.0 engine as the 525d.

Blazer

166man wrote: »

Thought the 525d was also a 3.0d?

they are

525 F10
2,993 cc (182.6 cu in) I6 turbo (N57D30) 204 PS (150 kW; 201 hp)@4000, 450 N·m (332 lb·ft)@1750-3000

Tea 1000

Blazer wrote: »

they are

525 F10
2,993 cc (182.6 cu in) I6 turbo (N57D30) 204 PS (150 kW; 201 hp)@4000, 450 N·m (332 lb·ft)@1750-3000

Not for this year.
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/bmw/5-series/first-drives/bmw-525d-se

Ignore his typo in the first sentence, he meant 2.5.
But they're a 2 litre 4 cylinder twin turbo now, with 215bhp. Basically a slightly tweaked 123d engine.

Blazer

Tea 1000 wrote: »

Not for this year.
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/bmw/5-series/first-drives/bmw-525d-se

Ignore his typo in the first sentence, he meant 2.5.
But they're a 2 litre 4 cylinder twin turbo now, with 215bhp. Basically a slightly tweaked 123d engine.

christ ..that's being cheap..just remap your F10 520D and voila..a 525D..
Surely there;s a bit extra to nudge people towards a 525d?

At least in the E60 you got a 6 cyclinder which was much more refined..

Tea 1000

Blazer wrote: »

christ ..that's being cheap..just remap your F10 520D and voila..a 525D..
Surely there;s a bit extra to nudge people towards a 525d?

At least in the E60 you got a 6 cyclinder which was much more refined..

More people don't notice than do I'd say. But the twin turbo would give a better spread of power from lower down, so I'd say you're mainly missing the sound more so than the extra shove.

166man

R.O.R wrote: »

Early F10 525d's were 3.0 Litres but they've recently (some point early this year I think) a twin turbo 2.0 engine as the 525d.

I always wondered why that engine, the 123d engine wasn't put into the E60 from late 2007 when the facelift came in.

Tea 1000

166man wrote: »

I always wondered why that engine, the 123d engine wasn't put into the E60 from late 2007 when the facelift came in.

Even the 3 series would be nice with it. It took Alpina to do that for them!

Idbatterim

Parts alone are over 4K..
I rang my BMW garage today as I'm due to get new brake pads for my fronts..price quoted? €299
Rang CMC in Limerick (Indy BMW garage) - €150.
Saw Nissan Doctor on a thread doing another car during the week--price..€80 but not sure if they were the OEM pads or not? If only I was closer to Dublin..hell if I got a few things done together the trip up would prob still save me a fortune

Shows you how much gouging goes on at BMW and indeed any of the higher end stuff.

I had rear discs, pads (bosch) and sensors replaced in my E46 for E30 labour. Blazer, i normally just go into local motor factors, pick stuff up and let mechanic fit it...