Stop supporting crime, legalise cannabis

dttq

There, I've said it.

Discuss

Spiritual

You are a new thinker.

Herb Powell

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVOZeT2W6Bo

Prop Joe

or just stop using it ?? :rolleyes:

kincsem

Does not compute.

Seaneh

Wow, nobody has made a thread like this before.

Grayson

even though I agree 100% with the OP, there's been loads of threads like this. I would like to see if he has any ideas about how it should be legalised.

Celly Smunt

if it was legalised it would most likely to be more expensive than if you were to buy it illegally.

kneemos

pmcmahon wrote: »

if it was legalised it would most likely to be more expensive than if you were to buy it illegally.

And weaker,they'ed never allow the good stuff if it was legal.

Chain_reaction

pmcmahon wrote: »

if it was legalised it would most likely to be more expensive than if you were to buy it illegally.

But you'd be guaranteed quality or they could make it legal for a person to grow one/two plants for personal use like some of the countries on the continent.




But as long as you have the I/my son/daughter smoked all the soap bar at 15 crowd and now my life is ruined it won't happen here. That's bad parenting and bad choices affecting a professional class that would like to have the odd joint as a way of relaxing without any legal ramifications.

Micky Dolenz

Every man and his dog are growing their own these days. Erm, so AGS say.

Not supporting criminal gangs but making criminals out of normal everyday folk.

Celly Smunt

Chain_reaction wrote: »

But you'd be guaranteed quality or they could make it legal for a person to grow one/two plants for personal use like some of the countries on the continent.

.

I'd imagine they'd reduce the potency if anything,again creating a bigger demand for the illegal stuff.The government would probably just flood the market with soap bars anyway.

Prop Joe

Maybe just fine everyone caught with possession 10 grand,Take it out of the social welfare or PRSI or something..That would finish off alot of "social " druggies...Hence no money for Wayne Dundon etc....Win Win

Celly Smunt

Prop Joe wrote: »

Maybe just fine everyone caught with possession 10 grand,Take it out of the social welfare or PRSI or something..That would finish off alot of "social " druggies...Hence no money for Wayne Dundon etc....Win Win

to be honest i don't think the dundons are relying on social welfare.

Spiritual

AH will eventually eat itself.

Legalise it but make drug testing obligatory for those that work in areas that provide a function needed by society. If you fail then you lose your job.
The rest can just smoke away.

Now how do we decide what is a necessary function and who are the rest?

Celly Smunt

Spiritual wrote: »

AH will eventually eat itself.

Legalise it but make drug testing obligatory for those that work in areas that provide a function needed by society. If you fail then you lose your job.
The rest can just smoke away.

Now how do we decide what is a necessary function and who are the rest?

anybody in the public service,that'll show em.

Spiritual

pmcmahon wrote: »

anybody in the public service,that'll show em.

But all of them are not necessary!

Real Life

people are so ignorant to it all. i smoke everyday, i also go to work everyday and function completely normal. I never cause any trouble to society, ive never been in a fight or cause any anti social behavior but when i want to smoke i have to go find a place to hide and do it like im doing something terrible, its ridiculous.
It would be great to be able to just sit in a coffee shop and relax while smoking.
Whether it becomes legal or not il continue to smoke

K3lso

pmcmahon wrote: »

if it was legalised it would most likely to be more expensive than if you were to buy it illegally.

You are sooooo wrong. The laws of supply and demand.

When something is illegal, less producers operate in the market and thus, prices are high. If you legalised pot, more producers would entere the industry bringing the prices crashing down...

Simple economics.

Haelium

Spiritual wrote: »

AH will eventually eat itself.

Legalise it but make drug testing obligatory for those that work in areas that provide a function needed by society. If you fail then you lose your job.
The rest can just smoke away.

Now how do we decide what is a necessary function and who are the rest?

+1 if alcohol is treated the same way.

kylith

Jesus, I smoke it myself, but boy am I getting sick of these threads.

Spiritual wrote: »

AH will eventually eat itself.

Legalise it but make drug testing obligatory for those that work in areas that provide a function needed by society. If you fail then you lose your job.
The rest can just smoke away.

Now how do we decide what is a necessary function and who are the rest?

Only if we do the same with alcohol, since that has much longer-last after effects. You can get completely monged and be 100% fine the next morning; you can't say that about booze.

Haelium

If it was legalised these threads would disappear. Just sayin.

The Snipe

K3lso wrote: »

You are sooooo wrong. The laws of supply and demand.

When something is illegal, less producers operate in the market and thus, prices are high. If you legalised pot, more producers would entere the industry bringing the prices crashing down...

Simple economics.

Not to mention it gives all those who have been dealing, an opertunity to get a proper job, doing what they were doing. But legally! Afterall, stoners running the show about pot would be a lot better then industrial farms etc. selling it all off. They care for their stuff like.

mikom

FYI prohibitionists........

California Marijuana Decriminalization Drops Youth Crime Rate To Record Low: Study


The study, entitled "California Youth Crime Plunges to All-Time Low" and released by the San Francisco-based Center on Juvenile and Criminal Justice, looked at the number of people under the age of 18 who were arrested in the state over the past eight decades. The research not only found juvenile crime to be at its lowest level ever but, in the wake of then-Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger signing a bill reducing the punishment for possessing a small amount of marijuana from a misdemeanor to simply an infraction, the drop in rates was significant.

In that one-year period, the number of arrests for violent crimes dropped by 16 percent, homicide went down by 26 percent and drug arrests decreased by nearly 50 percent.
California's drop in serious youth crime has decreased faster than in the rest of the nation.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_2205997.html

chillywilly

dttq wrote: »

There, I've said it.

Discuss

Starting a thread on the internet......you have achieved more than most weed smokers:D

Chain_reaction

pmcmahon wrote: »

I'd imagine they'd reduce the potency if anything,again creating a bigger demand for the illegal stuff.The government would probably just flood the market with soap bars anyway.

True. We are prone to introducing things arseways.

A Primal Nut

pmcmahon wrote: »

to be honest i don't think the dundons are relying on social welfare.

I think he means that Dundons customers are, not Dundon himself.

Grayson

mikom wrote: »

FYI prohibitionists........

is there a direct correlation. I'm all in favor of legalisation. But in this case, I'd like to know how they got that conclusion.

At the bottom of the page there's a link to a study that says ADHD medications reduce crime.

ScumLord

pmcmahon wrote: »

if it was legalised it would most likely to be more expensive than if you were to buy it illegally.

Legal grow can take place in a purpose built facility, you could buy the fertilizers and chemicals in bulk, cheaper electricity. A commercial grow would be significantly cheaper to run than an illegal one.

mikom

Grayson wrote: »

is there a direct correlation. I'm all in favor of legalisation. But in this case, I'd like to know how they got that conclusion.

More decriminalization results from Portugal.

The question is, does the new policy work? At the time, critics in the poor, socially conservative and largely Catholic nation said decriminalizing drug possession would open the country to "drug tourists" and exacerbate Portugal's drug problem; the country had some of the highest levels of hard-drug use in Europe. But the recently released results of a report commissioned by the Cato Institute, a libertarian think tank, suggest otherwise.
The paper, published by Cato in April, found that in the five years after personal possession was decriminalized, illegal drug use among teens in Portugal declined and rates of new HIV infections caused by sharing of dirty needles dropped, while the number of people seeking treatment for drug addiction more than doubled.
"Judging by every metric, decriminalization in Portugal has been a resounding success," says Glenn Greenwald, an attorney, author and fluent Portuguese speaker, who conducted the research. "It has enabled the Portuguese government to manage and control the drug problem far better than virtually every other Western country does."


Portugal's drug use numbers are impressive. Following decriminalization, Portugal had the lowest rate of lifetime marijuana use in people over 15 in the E.U.: 10%. The most comparable figure in America is in people over 12: 39.8%. Proportionally, more Americans have used cocaine than Portuguese have used marijuana.

The Cato paper reports that between 2001 and 2006 in Portugal, rates of lifetime use of any illegal drug among seventh through ninth graders fell from 14.1% to 10.6%; drug use in older teens also declined. Lifetime heroin use among 16-to-18-year-olds fell from 2.5% to 1.8% (although there was a slight increase in marijuana use in that age group). New HIV infections in drug users fell by 17% between 1999 and 2003, and deaths related to heroin and similar drugs were cut by more than half. In addition, the number of people on methadone and buprenorphine treatment for drug addiction rose to 14,877 from 6,040, after decriminalization, and money saved on enforcement allowed for increased funding of drug-free treatment as well.




Read more: http://www.time.com/time/health/arti...#ixzz20Koz0ifd

Sponge25

Prop Joe: I could count the amount of druggies that have 10k on one hand!

Haelium

Drugs, just like religion, prostitution and other issues that moral crusaders like to vote on is one of those issues that cannot be won by reason. No matter how much evidence you present and no matter how sound your reasoning is, prohibition advocates will never budge.
g
They will always take the position that new(Not alcohol, tobacco, chocolate or caffeine) drugs are bad and that making it illegal is the only reasonable stance.

Using force to stop people from engaging in an activity that effects nobody but themselves is nothing short of fascism.

mikom

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2vqpNT1kV4

Problems.

2.5 trillion dollars spent so far on the War on Drugs
1 million people with HIV in Russia
500,000 prisoners in USA for drugs
30 countries use the death penalty
Over 47,000 murders in Mexico
The illegal drugs trade is worth $300-400 billion a year
150-300 million drug users in the world

Possible solutions.

Explore options for legal drugs markets
End the prohibition of marijuana
Treat substance misuse as a health issue
Fully decriminalise all drugs
Give heroin addicts clean needles


http://www.breakingthetaboo.info/supportersv3.htm

mattjack

mikom wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2vqpNT1kV4

We do give clean needles to heroin addicts.

mikom

mattjack wrote: »

We do give clean needles to heroin addicts.

The activist movie is about worldwide issues, which is why I mentioned 1 million people with HIV in Russia.

It's Morgan Freeman that is narrating it, not Pat Shortt.

mattjack

mikom wrote: »

The activist movie is about worldwide issues, which is why I mentioned 1 million people with HIV in Russia.

Ahhh I see, I thought your post was about here in Ireland.

Wicklowandy

Cannabis has become far more expensive in the last 5 years in ireland; serious criminals missing the money made from cocaine sales have turned to cheaply producing / supplying weed and making massive profits from it. And because the cost / risk of detection of importing it has disappeared, the profitability has increased. It has to be incrediblely profitable to be commercially involved in its production and sale.

Also people rightly are most troubled by the crime that accompanies illegal drug use eg mugging, burglary, shop-lifting etc. This is because a heroin addict maybe supporting a €1000 a week habit.

If those drugs were given to an addict (eg shooting galleries) he or she would not steal. Drugs are not expensive to produce, and if it removes the street crime and unpleasantness eg a burglary to your house, that happens by having people with a requirement to steal, i have to support a model where drugs are supplied to addicts in controlled settings (not sitting on o connell st)

Prohibition has not worked.

Jimoslimos

mikom wrote: »

FYI prohibitionists........

California Marijuana Decriminalization Drops Youth Crime Rate To Record Low: Study


The study, entitled "California Youth Crime Plunges to All-Time Low" and released by the San Francisco-based Center on Juvenile and Criminal Justice, looked at the number of people under the age of 18 who were arrested in the state over the past eight decades. The research not only found juvenile crime to be at its lowest level ever but, in the wake of then-Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger signing a bill reducing the punishment for possessing a small amount of marijuana from a misdemeanor to simply an infraction, the drop in rates was significant.

In that one-year period, the number of arrests for violent crimes dropped by 16 percent, homicide went down by 26 percent and drug arrests decreased by nearly 50 percent.
California's drop in serious youth crime has decreased faster than in the rest of the nation.

Does not compute. All the arguments I've heard to date have been that marijuana doesn't lead to a life of hard crime - so why is that piece suggesting there a link between the two?

Or are they arguing that penalising minor misdemeanours is likely to lead to higher crime rates in the future? If so then it is policing and the justice system in a broader sense that needs to be examined. Not just drug use.

Marijuana doesn't cause half the ills it is accused of.
But neither is it the panacea that its supporters would claim.


(BTW I wholly endorse this thread, for the only reason that "legalise" is spelt with a "s")

mattjack

Wicklowandy wrote: »

Cannabis has become far more expensive in the last 5 years in ireland; serious criminals missing the money made from cocaine sales have turned to cheaply producing / supplying weed and making massive profits from it. And because the cost / risk of detection of importing it has disappeared, the profitability has increased. It has to be incrediblely profitable to be commercially involved in its production and sale.

Also people rightly are most troubled by the crime that accompanies illegal drug use eg mugging, burglary, shop-lifting etc. This is because a heroin addict maybe supporting a €1000 a week habit.

If those drugs were given to an addict (eg shooting galleries) he or she would not steal. Drugs are not expensive to produce, and if it removes the street crime and unpleasantness eg a burglary to your house, that happens by having people with a requirement to steal, i have to support a model where drugs are supplied to addicts in controlled settings (not sitting on o connell st)

Prohibition has not worked.

A 1000 euro a week, that's quite an addiction.

Wicklowandy

And think how many crimes with people like us all affected by it.

Turn addiction into a health problem. Even if you give an addict clean, pharmaceutically produced gear in controlled setting, it wont cost that much and youll cut street type crime (burglary , muggings etc.) not to mention the less cost to health service, better image to tourists in city centre etc.

mikom

Jimoslimos wrote: »

Does not compute. All the arguments I've heard to date have been that marijuana doesn't lead to a life of hard crime - so why is that piece suggesting there a link between the two?

Substitute the word "marijuana" for the word "conviction", and you may start to grasp it.

The most dangerous thing about cannabis is the damage getting caught with it can cause.

brosy

mikom wrote: »

The most dangerous thing about cannabis is the damage getting caught with it can cause.

Absolutely one hundred percent on the money. The trauma caused to so many people in this country by getting a conviction for something that should not be considered a crime. It's just completely unfathomable to me how anybody can rightly think that some guy staying at home to watch a DVD on Saturday night and have a joint or two instead of going out and getting hammered drunk should be slapped with a life altering criminal conviction that will never go away.

What kind of sick and bitter person would wish that on non-violent members of society??? It genuinely boggles my mind. It's completely unjustifiable.

Andy-Pandy

I'm just about to finish a degree in horticulture, if it's every legalised I know what i'll be growing for a living.

Prop Joe

brosy wrote: »

Absolutely one hundred percent on the money. The trauma caused to so many people in this country by getting a conviction for something that should not be considered a crime. It's just completely unfathomable to me how anybody can rightly think that some guy staying at home to watch a DVD on Saturday night and have a joint or two instead of going out and getting hammered drunk should be slapped with a life altering criminal conviction that will never go away.

What kind of sick and bitter person would wish that on non-violent members of society??? It genuinely boggles my mind. It's completely unjustifiable.

I think the biggest problem is where is it sourced? I don't think it is that much of a problem if he produces a small plant or 2 for personal use but if he is buying it off some knacker then he deserves the punishment.

I Hate drugs because of where the money ends up,Same with counterfeit fags,Booze,diesel

bodhrandude

When I was in Switzerland, me and some mates went to some cannabis shop in the city of Lugano, they sold high quality weed with a little piece of paper inside the bag stating that this was supposed to be used as air freshener. Weed really does function as an air freshener apart from its obvious attributes, take for example I went for a enormous dump which was stifling this morning, lucky I had a little blunt of pongy weed which I sparked up, situation sorted.

mud

Do ye think that there aren't any long-term problems though?


I know people who smoke so much, every day. They still work and function but I can't help but think that if they were drinking as much as they were smoking they'd be dead!

I used to smoke a lot and now worry somewhat that down the line it may cause me problems.

Anyone any thoughts on that?

kylith

mud wrote: »

Do ye think that there aren't any long-term problems though?


I know people who smoke so much, every day. They still work and function but I can't help but think that if they were drinking as much as they were smoking they'd be dead!

I used to smoke a lot and now worry somewhat that down the line it may cause me problems.

Anyone any thoughts on that?

So what? If they smoke and function then they're doing no-one any harm but themselves. Smokers all know the health risks and it's an informed choice. You do just as much damage to yourself with plain tobacco, but I don't see you wringing your hands over that.

mud

kylith wrote: »

So what? If they smoke and function then they're doing no-one any harm but themselves. Smokers all know the health risks and it's an informed choice. You do just as much damage to yourself with plain tobacco, but I don't see you wringing your hands over that.

Am, I'm not 'wringing my hands' (nice emotive language there) I was asking something totally different but you didn't pick up on that which is grand. Not sure why you replied though . . .

Spiritual

Real Life wrote: »

people are so ignorant to it all. i smoke everyday, i also go to work everyday and function completely normal. I never cause any trouble to society, ive never been in a fight or cause any anti social behavior but when i want to smoke i have to go find a place to hide and do it like im doing something terrible, its ridiculous.
It would be great to be able to just sit in a coffee shop and relax while smoking.
Whether it becomes legal or not il continue to smoke

What is your source of employment?

mikom

Spiritual wrote: »

What is your source of employment?

A guard wouldn't even ask you that......

Spiritual

mikom wrote: »

A guard wouldn't even ask you that......

We would.