Odeon Cinema, Charlestown Centre, Finglas

RATM

Anyone know what the Bailey Brothers & NAMA are currently building at Charlestown, just between the shopping center and the McDonalds ? Saw the cranes fire up for the first time since 2008 a few weeks back and was wondering.
I've heard it is more apartments (as if they're needed:rolleyes:) but someone else said it is a multiscreen cinema.

Paulw

I believe it's a leisure centre and a cinema. Google Charlestown Phase 2.

Victor

Original thread http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055166070 split to:

Houses at Charlestown, Finglas http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056820791

Construction in Charlestown Centre, Finglas http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056820836

Moderator

John Mason

A cinema but at one point there was talk of an ice skating rink. The Dundalk team ice hockey team were going to use it as their home ground but i havent heard anything about that in a long time.

i wonder about the need for another cinema within a couple of miles you have Omni, Coolock, Blanch and all the city centre cinemas.

OU812

PLEASE let it be an ice rink

Zamboni

It won't be an ice rink.
Ice rinks are not commercially viable in Ireland. Well unless I am involved

Paulw

The planning permission is for a leisure centre and a cinema. That's what's being built.

Definitely no ice-rink.

Gumbo

irishbird wrote: »

A cinema but at one point there was talk of an ice skating rink. The Dundalk team ice hockey team were going to use it as their home ground but i havent heard anything about that in a long time.

i wonder about the need for another cinema within a couple of miles you have Omni, Coolock, Blanch and all the city centre cinemas.

OU812 wrote: »

PLEASE let it be an ice rink

The Ice Rink was built and removed. It was a seasonal thing and was placed there for xmas 2009 and 2010 but didnt reappear last year due to the ground works being prepared for the cinema.

I look forward to the cinema, and will use it over blanch etc as its closer and within walking distance, obviously depending on finish and films and more importantly, if the nachos are up to standard

Lovely Bloke

kceire wrote: »

The Ice Rink was built and removed. It was a seasonal thing and was placed there for xmas 2009 and 2010 but didnt reappear last year due to the ground works being prepared for the cinema.
D

no, they were supposed to building a permanent one but that was before the temporary one was built.

the ice hockey team from dundalk were going to use it as their home ground.

this was when he centre was being built.

Hannibal

considering half the apartments above the shopping centre are currently empty and the shopping centre itself is like a ghost town most days I wonder whether this is even needed especially given the proximity of Omni, Swords, Blanch and even town. I know when I go the cinema albeit rarely I still go to town

RATM

Dotsey wrote: »

considering half the apartments above the shopping centre are currently empty and the shopping centre itself is like a ghost town most days I wonder whether this is even needed especially given the proximity of Omni, Swords, Blanch and even town. I know when I go the cinema albeit rarely I still go to town

I'd agree with you there about the cinema- there are loads already within a 3-4 mile radius. People from Finglas Ballymun, Poppinntree, etc might use it but it is difficult to see people coming from other areas to use it and passing other decent cinemas to do so.

I think a good few of the apartments above the shopping center have been let- at least on the east side of it above where Eddie Rockets & Ulster Bank. There was a stage in 2010 when about only 15-20% of apartments had lights on at night, nowadays it is more like 60-70% that appear occupied at night so NAMA have been trying to make a few quid back for us worn out taxpayers.

Would love to know what the two beds are renting for over there they're supposed to be quite spacious.

RATM

Just had a look at the plans here
http://cms.mol.ie/uploads/Charlestown_Brochure_Nov09.pdf

It's a real throwback to the Celtic Tiger era. Three things stood out for me.

- The lip service paid to the environment -'Emission saving concrete used in construction'. At what level, 5%?

-Not one single mention of the word 'Finglas' anywhere in the whole document. They refer to Charlestown as Charlestown. D11. On all maps they refer to the M50 exit not as the Finglas exit but as 'Junction 5'

- "Proposed Metro West station adjacent to Charlestown Shopping Center"
Lol, just lol

Gumbo

Dotsey wrote: »

considering half the apartments above the shopping centre are currently empty and the shopping centre itself is like a ghost town most days I wonder whether this is even needed especially given the proximity of Omni, Swords, Blanch and even town. I know when I go the cinema albeit rarely I still go to town

Ghost town is a bit harsh no? The Dunnes shop is dunnes highest grossing store in the country, that says a lot to me. Its no blanch but it has the basics, if it had a Penny's i would never need to visit blanch again

RATM wrote: »

People from Finglas Ballymun, Poppinntree, etc might use it but it is difficult to see people coming from other areas to use it and passing other decent cinemas to do so.

Finglas people go to town, or blanch or Omni because theres nothing in finglas, with this cinema, imo, the people that used to travel to omni etc will use it, but i stress again, as per my last post, it will depend on the quality of the cinema, they cant just stick in a crappy screen etc, they need to be on par with Omni etc

I for one will use it over blanch etc due to pure handiness

RATM wrote: »

-Not one single mention of the word 'Finglas' anywhere in the whole document. They refer to Charlestown as Charlestown. D11. On all maps they refer to the M50 exit not as the Finglas exit but as 'Junction 5'

In fairness, they all do that :

Joe Duffy BMW
Denis Mahony Toyota
Audi North Dublin
etc
etc
etc

Hannibal

kceire wrote: »

Ghost town is a bit harsh no? The Dunnes shop is dunnes highest grossing store in the country, that says a lot to me. Its no blanch but it has the basics, if it had a Penny's i would never need to visit blanch again

It's not harsh at all as I used to be in it regularly when I was working in the area and most times I could count on one hand how many people were in it. I somehow doubt that it grosses more than their shops in Dublin city for example or bigger shopping centres in bigger suburbs, and considering they threatened to pull out of that shopping centre around 18 months ago unless phase 2 was built indicates to me that it in truth is probably one of their least performing shops

Gumbo

Dotsey wrote: »

It's not harsh at all as I used to be in it regularly when I was working in the area and most times I could count on one hand how many people were in it.

Im in it regularly myself nowadays and its busy all the time. It has taken a lot of custom from Finglas Village too. A sign of how busy it is now a days is the que of taxi's waiting to get onto the rank and the quick turnaround of taxis on the rank. The centre are trying to increase the taxi rank too as there is only 3 spots there at present.

Dotsey wrote: »

I somehow doubt that it grosses more than their shops in Dublin city for example or bigger shopping centres in bigger suburbs, and considering they threatened to pull out of that shopping centre around 18 months ago unless phase 2 was built indicates to me that it in truth is probably one of their least performing shops

I didnt think i was true either but i've family in there that told me.

Hannibal

kceire wrote: »

Im in it regularly myself nowadays and its busy all the time. It has taken a lot of custom from Finglas Village too. A sign of how busy it is now a days is the que of taxi's waiting to get onto the rank and the quick turnaround of taxis on the rank. The centre are trying to increase the taxi rank too as there is only 3 spots there at present.

Every taxi rank in Dublin has queues due to the over supply of taxis.

Its difficult to gauge how much real custom it's took from Finglas village, I know business in the village suffered massively when the GMS offices moved out around 7 or 8 years ago. Plus the village was bought up by a certain McNamara who was to redevelop it and left it sitting idle for 10 years and now it's in NAMA. Most shops didn't put a penny into their premises as they thought they were getting moved to new units which left the place in a heap plus what was the main pub in the Drake has been practically vacant for over 5 years now.

Finglas village is like many other towns and villages who are pricing themselves out of doing business, take the unit that was previously Centra on the Main Street that's now empty the last two months.. rent and rates alone for the year to occupy that is €100k. In my opinion these shopping centres like Charlestown etc have no soul and you will never beat a pumping village but it's a clash of styles that have to compete against each other.

Just thinking about the proposed new cinema screens, there was previously a two-screen cinema in the old Janelle shopping centre where Tesco is now and where Superquinn is in the village was previously a cinema in the 60's and 70's so the track record for cinemas in Finglas isn't good.

John Mason

i have lived in finglas for 8 years and i have been in the village twice,

there is nothing to bring me there except for the cafe which does a nice breakfast but as i said i have been in it twice in 8 years.

the parking is a nightmare, you cant get a latte, no deli, no bakery.

Slunk

Finglas badly needs a decent bakery. Superquinn is alright and lidl in glasnevin is not bad but would be nice to have one in the village. Superquinn is the only thing keeping the village going

Gumbo

Dotsey wrote: »

Every taxi rank in Dublin has queues due to the over supply of taxis.

Its difficult to gauge how much real custom it's took from Finglas village, I know business in the village suffered massively when the GMS offices moved out around 7 or 8 years ago. Plus the village was bought up by a certain McNamara who was to redevelop it and left it sitting idle for 10 years and now it's in NAMA. Most shops didn't put a penny into their premises as they thought they were getting moved to new units which left the place in a heap plus what was the main pub in the Drake has been practically vacant for over 5 years now.

Finglas village is like many other towns and villages who are pricing themselves out of doing business, take the unit that was previously Centra on the Main Street that's now empty the last two months.. rent and rates alone for the year to occupy that is €100k. In my opinion these shopping centres like Charlestown etc have no soul and you will never beat a pumping village but it's a clash of styles that have to compete against each other.

Just thinking about the proposed new cinema screens, there was previously a two-screen cinema in the old Janelle shopping centre where Tesco is now and where Superquinn is in the village was previously a cinema in the 60's and 70's so the track record for cinemas in Finglas isn't good.

well we will just have to agree to disagree here as i see it as an invaluable asset to the locality.

I actually live in Finglas, so am well aware of the previous cinemas etc, and from the locals where they go for shopping, or used to go for shopping etc

I know people from Finglas West area that now bypass Dunnes on Cardiffsbridge Road to go to Charlestown. I for one am grateful for it, and will use it well into the future, and am actively awaiting the new cinema as i will use it ahead of the Coolock Odean/Omni when it opens.

gurramok

I was in Charlestown shopping centre yesterday(Sunday) at around 1pm. It was quite busy then, i've always seen it busy on Thurs\Fri evenings and weekends but can't comment on weekday daytime as i'm never there then

Its a nice centre, the underground car park is quite handy to protect you from the elements when you're wheeling your shopping out to the car. Don't think any other surburban shopping centre(bar Tesco Darndale) have this on the northside?

Gumbo

gurramok wrote: »

Its a nice centre, the underground car park is quite handy to protect you from the elements when you're wheeling your shopping out to the car. Don't think any other surburban shopping centre(bar Tesco Darndale) have this on the northside?

And its also free, which helps.

January

kceire wrote: »

And its also free, which helps.

well for the first two hours anyway. I reckon they'll start pulling on the money from the carparks once the cinema is open.

Gumbo

January wrote: »

well for the first two hours anyway. I reckon they'll start pulling on the money from the carparks once the cinema is open.

They thing is, when they are busy, they lift the barriers and leave them open. doesnt matter how long you park for, especially weekends.

Hopefully the parking doesnt change when the cinema opens, but it wont affect me as im in walking distance, but it would be great if the cineam validates your parking ticket or something.

datk

I can't wait for the cinema to open - I used to go a lot and now can't be bothered, having one so close will be great. It won't be open until this time next year but at least it's finally happening. Thanks Nama!

prettyboy81

I'm looking forward to the cinema opening myself. I agree with previous posters it could do with one or two more larger stores i.e Penny's or Next.

Generally, always busy when I frequent it never the hustle & bustle of Blanch but high volume of people in the Centre.

bicsoi

any update on an opening date?

Peregrine

bicsoi wrote: »

any update on an opening date?

Not sure but construction seems to have stopped again unfortunately, or the cranes have been removed anyway.

Gumbo

Nimrod 7 wrote: »

Not sure but construction seems to have stopped again unfortunately, or the cranes have been removed anyway.

Internal fit out.

January

There's a Thunders bakery in Charlestown now too.

Hootanany

Is that good or bad.

Slunk

January wrote: »

There's a Thunders bakery in Charlestown now too.

Bad. I got some fruit slices the other day. Horrible. Glad to see lidl is going to have a bakery but they only do bread, crossaints etc. No cream cakes or tarts. Still the rolls and paninis will be better than other places offering cdf crap.

datk

bicsoi wrote: »

any update on an opening date?

According to their Facebook page they're expecting to open in November. When the work started (this time around) they were talking about a December 2013 opening. So even though things seem to stop and start it certainly seems to be going to plan.

RATM

November ? Given the cinema building looks more or less finished 6 months seems a long time to get the fit out finished.

Is it possible they don't have a cinema operator to run it ?

Mr Simpson

RATM wrote: »

November ? Given the cinema building looks more or less finished 6 months seems a long time to get the fit out finished.

Is it possible they don't have a cinema operator to run it ?

It may open a bit early, but a cinema fit out takes a long time. Much longer than normal commercial fit outs.

Hannibal

Nimrod 7 wrote: »

I live right beside it and I know people living in Lanesborough, Mayestown and Hampton Wood and they all just say they live in Charlestown because it's easier too.

If they say Finglas, people automatically think Village or West and South etc. so then when they say "Lanesborough in Finglas" people just get confused. Which is why they all just ended up saying Charlestown cos let's face it, most of North Dublin knows Charlestown at this stage. They still say Finglas, D11 when giving their proper address though.

While Metro West isn't a reality right now, it could be in 10-15 years when Dart Underground and Metro North is finished. But obviously in 2007/2008 when that brochure was released, it was a far brighter picture.

the area where Charlestown is was always known as Meakstown or Dubber Cross which is about 50 yards up the road, Finglas used to end at McKelvey as the road to Dubber was basically a country lane with the cottages at the top and The Castle pub/slaughter house on the right. That area in particular is unrecognisable from what it was like 20 years ago when the Finglas by-pass was commenced.

I know a couple of people who say "Cityside" when saying their area and you can see it visibly winds them up when you reply Finglas or Poppintree. The area where Charlestown and Lanesborough is, is basically Finglas North whether the residents like it or not but Dublin 11 is the important part on their addresses, I personally would class Hampton and Mayestown as Poppintree/Ballymun. I think Charlestown is a historical name for a couple of fields nearer to where the M50 roundabout is similar to nearby Kildonan etc in that they appear on old Ordanance Survey maps but very few local even knew of the existance of their names.

And unless there's a Celtic Tiger remark and a further sequel the metro or any rail services coming anywhere near Finglas is a non starter apart from the nearly Broombridge and Ashtown stops to the south close to Cabra. Any future metro/luas etc heading onto the northside will be closer to the N1/M1 trying to take DCU, the airport and probably onto Swords into the equation. Traffic to Finglas and the N2 from town isn't heavy anymore apart from Phibsborough.

Hannibal

is it Bovale and the Bailey brothers still in charge of this new construction? I know they built the initial stage.
I haven't heard anything of them in recent years since they paid themselves over €5m a year and made a €20m plus settlement with the revenue

Peregrine

There's a €13m loan from NAMA but I don't know if the Bailey brothers are still involved. I'd also like to know what the case is.

Hannibal

Nimrod 7 wrote: »

There's a €13m loan from NAMA but I don't know if the Bailey brothers are still involved. I'd also like to know what the case is.

I didn't realise them or their company were near NAMA considering the sums they paid themselves, strange one though.
Anyway this will be the first cinema in Finglas in about 15 years since the two screens in Janelle shut down, think the only other cinema was the Casino where Superquinn is now. There's a lot of multiscreens around within a 10/15 min drive particularly town, Blanch and Omni so there's a small catchment area for this one with only really Finglas and maybe the west half of Ballymun

January

I'd probably head to Charlestown over the cinema in Blanchardstown (I live in Mulhuddart) but it'd a be personal preference, would have to visit it first! I really don't like the Odeon in Blanchardstown.

Peregrine

It opens in November by the way

The previous rerouting of the 40 bus is a concern. It completely disconnects the whole of Finglas West and parts of the South from Charlestown(except the rare 40b).

RATM

Nimrod 7 wrote: »

There's a €13m loan from NAMA but I don't know if the Bailey brothers are still involved. I'd also like to know what the case is.

Namawinelake mentions the Bailey Brothers along with the shopping center in a blog back in January this year. I think the Sunday Business Post did an article on Namas funding of select unfinished developments and the Baileys got mentioned there too in connection with the cinema at Charlestown.

http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/2013/01/23/nama-deploys-its-development-strategy-with-e1-5m-of-works-on-grafton-street/

Peregrine

Thanks. So it seems Bovale is still developing it but with funding from NAMA.

The €13m included funding for the two fast food restaurants that opened last year too afaik.

This is only half of phase two. The other half, the site closer to the outside carpark is hoarded off. It was supposed to more mixed retail and apartment buildings I think. I can see why they're not in a hurry to build that right now..

Gumbo

Cinema due to open in November.
Bovale are still working away. They have applied for houses down in the old omega technic site beside Erin's Isle GAA Club.

Peregrine

kceire wrote: »

Cinema due to open in November.
Bovale are still working away. They have applied for houses down in the old omega technic site beside Erin's Isle GAA Club.

You wouldn't know anything about the other half of Phase 2, would you?

datk

As far as I remember it's only the cinema and Leisureplex that is being built - the extra retail bit isn't going ahead (whether that happens in the future I don't know).

This was on display a few weeks ago - I think the final phase was to be a B&Q or Homebase style shopping and it seems to be shelved.

http://www.fingalcoco.ie/Planning/PlanningItemsOnDisplay/CharlestownVariation-Ends23052013/Proposed%20Variation%20Text.pdf

TrueDub

datk wrote: »

As far as I remember it's only the cinema and Leisureplex that is being built - the extra retail bit isn't going ahead (whether that happens in the future I don't know).

This was on display a few weeks ago - I think the final phase was to be a B&Q or Homebase style shopping and it seems to be shelved.

http://www.fingalcoco.ie/Planning/PlanningItemsOnDisplay/CharlestownVariation-Ends23052013/Proposed%20Variation%20Text.pdf

Thanks for that link - the interesting this is that the carpark across the road from the centre is defined as temporary. For how long, I wonder?

Hannibal

kceire wrote: »

Bovale are still working away. They have applied for houses down in the old omega technic site beside Erin's Isle GAA Club.

Have you more information on this?
I know it was rezoned and that Bovale did build the adjoining Finn Eber development in the 90's. From looking at maps they couldn't use the existing entrance that Omega used, so the only way I can see would be to extend a road in Finn Eber and you would roughly fit twenty houses into the site.

gurramok

As Hannibal said earlier, i don't understand why they are going ahead with a cinema there. The population numbers do not support a cinema there unless it will be tiny. Too much competition around including Omni and UCI in Coolock(which pulls the audience east of Finglas away) and UCI Blanch(which caters for West of Finglas). Of course its the nearest of all the cinemas to the M50(less than 200m away), perhaps they are trying to draw in the passing traffic on the M50?

To put another spanner in the works, UCI pulled out of Tallaght so why would they keep the Charlestown one?

RATM

gurramok wrote: »

As Hannibal said earlier, i don't understand why they are going ahead with a cinema there. The population numbers do not support a cinema there unless it will be tiny. Too much competition around including Omni and UCI in Coolock(which pulls the audience east of Finglas away) and UCI Blanch(which caters for West of Finglas). Of course its the nearest of all the cinemas to the M50(less than 200m away), perhaps they are trying to draw in the passing traffic on the M50?

To put another spanner in the works, UCI pulled out of Tallaght so why would they keep the Charlestown one?

I am of the same line of thinking- I just don't know where the customers are going to come from to actually sustain it. Especially with Santry, Blanch and Coolock all within a 15 minute drive. Also when the initial plan was approved in bubble times people were going out several nights a week and had decent disposable incomes. We are a long way from that now.

I suppose the other side of it is the NAMA consideration- in fairness to them it is better developed than a building site for when they do eventually sell it off. I can understand the logic of finishing some developments to add value to them for a future sale but the interim could mean that they are building white elephants that will have no customers.

Even the fact that the cinema looks ready but is not opening till November seems to suggest that the operator is wary of opening summer time when people tend to be out and about more than in cinemas. Someone on thread said it is because a cinema takes 6 months to fit out, they never seemed to take that long back in the boom, they just threw them up and opened asap to get into profit.

Incidentially do we know how many screens the cinema actually has ? If they have Too few then choice of films will deter people from going them, if they have too many they'll have problems filling them.

As for the retail in phase 2, I can't see that getting built till Ireland starts seeing steady economic growth again which still looks some way off sadly :mad:

Peregrine

RATM wrote: »

Incidentially do we know how many screens the cinema actually has ? If they have Too few then choice of films will deter people from going them, if they have too many they'll have problems filling them.

Originally it was said to be 9 screens.


I too share similar concerns but even more about the Leisureplex.

January

Plex will be fine as long as they throw a Zoo play area into it. Finglas has been sadly lacking in a children's play centre since the Hurly Burly closed a few years ago. It'll also do well with the snooker and pool crowd.