4x4 Options for Low Tax and Good MPG

Lullymore24

Guys.
I'm looking for a 4x4 that will offer good mpg for long haul, at least 40mpg and Tax that is affordable.
All I can find is 2x4's on CBG
It will be Taxed PRIVATE and must be able to seat Children in compliance with Irish Law.
Price Tag €6-8000 max.

I've driven Lancruisers, highlux,L200's, Troopers etc, but the Tax is an issue now and Fuel costs.
All help appreciated

Eric Cartman

Lullymore24 wrote: »

Guys.
I'm looking for a 4x4 that will offer good mpg for long haul, at least 40mpg and Tax that is affordable.
All I can find is 2x4's on CBG
It will be Taxed PRIVATE and must be able to seat Children in compliance with Irish Law.
Price Tag €6-8000 max.

I've driven Lancruisers, highlux,L200's, Troopers etc, but the Tax is an issue now and Fuel costs.
All help appreciated

and I want a unicorn.

to be honest the only 4x4 vehicle that might even remotely come in any way shape or form close to what you want is the new kia sportage , but those will be nowhere near your price bracket.

4x4s are not very fuel efficient, not cheap to tax and not very cheap to own in general, if its about load space id suggest a van, if you just want something for the winter a subaru legacy diesel might be your best bet.

but 40mpg 4x4's with cheap tax for 8k dont really exist.

Lullymore24

Eric Cartman wrote: »

and I want a unicorn.

to be honest the only 4x4 vehicle that might even remotely come in any way shape or form close to what you want is the new kia sportage , but those will be nowhere near your price bracket.

4x4s are not very fuel efficient, not cheap to tax and not very cheap to own in general, if its about load space id suggest a van, if you just want something for the winter a subaru legacy diesel might be your best bet.

but 40mpg 4x4's with cheap tax for 8k dont really exist.

Tax Sub €1000 per year I meant to say.

I was considering a Kia Sportage, what are they like??

Eric Cartman

Lullymore24 wrote: »

Tax Sub €1000 per year I meant to say.

I was considering a Kia Sportage, what are they like??

I wouldnt be arsed towing anything with one, the 2010 one is grand and will do 40mpg easy. the 2004-2009 one (in your price bracket) will be 660 to tax a year, do 30-35mpg on the motorway if your easy on it , watch out as a lot of them are 2wd .

I havent driven one but I havent heard any horror stories about them either , should be fairly reliable, look for one with all the bells and whistles on it .

101sean

As Spock may have said, your question is illogical!

Do you tow (smaller 4x4s will be rated at less than 2t) and do you need the ground clearance (would an AWD car do if you really need the 4x4?). No big 4x4 will get anywhere near 40mpg in general use and mid size ones will struggle unless you can afford the latest models.

Suzuki Grand Vitara may meet the bill although I think the diesel has a Renault engine.

Your money doesn't run to a Freelander 2 which are very reliable unlike it's predecessor which is probably best avoided unless you really know what to look for.

As Eric says, the old Kia Sportage was well respected and the Hyundai Santa Fe has a lot of fans but you won't get 40mpg.

TPM

101sean wrote: »

Suzuki Grand Vitara may meet the bill although I think the diesel has a Renault engine.

I was going to suggest this too, I was thinking of one a while back there isnt too much in the same bracket as it, but personally I hate renault so the 1.9 renault engine ruled me out, Its the same engine as was in the laguna.

101sean

I too hate Renault with a passion that I won't go in to here! :mad:

Lullymore24

101sean wrote: »

As Spock may have said, your question is illogical!

Do you tow (smaller 4x4s will be rated at less than 2t) and do you need the ground clearance (would an AWD car do if you really need the 4x4?). No big 4x4 will get anywhere near 40mpg in general use and mid size ones will struggle unless you can afford the latest models.

Suzuki Grand Vitara may meet the bill although I think the diesel has a Renault engine.

Your money doesn't run to a Freelander 2 which are very reliable unlike it's predecessor which is probably best avoided unless you really know what to look for.

As Eric says, the old Kia Sportage was well respected and the Hyundai Santa Fe has a lot of fans but you won't get 40mpg.

I want ground Clearance and 16" Wheels so I can put on Decent Tyres for it 17" are a disaster.
I also want a Sump Guard and Gearbox guard.(I worry about location of mufflers on some machines, and Gearbox protection)

I had a 3L that did 30mpg so I was hoping a 2L would do 40 :eek: Or close to it.:(

A friend had a '03 TD Grand Vitara and it gave a lot of trouble.
I hate french Engines especially when second hand.
I might stretch to €10k. I really need an appointment with the bank manager to figure it out.

CJhaughey

Lullymore24 wrote: »

I really need an appointment with the bank manager to figure it out.

I think you need a clairvoyant more than a bank manager.
If manufacturers could build a reliable 2 litre 4x4 with good ground clearance that can get 5.8l/100km and carry people in comfort for less than 10k they would be selling them in the hundreds.
Its a fact of life that a proper 4x4 with a torquey engine and high drag figures will burn diesel faster than a car.
I know this through bitter experience, I have a nice swb Landcruiser with the reliable 3l 1-KZTE, I like everything about it bar the economy.
If I could afford to drive it, I would but in this economy it doesn't make sense when I do over 20k miles a year.

TrailerBob

As others have said, Santa Fe or Sportage will defintiely be closest to your criteria, but if you're talking about adding sump guards and gearbox protection, then I have to ask what terrain you plan on driving over? Ground that rough is no place for an intermediate 'suv' type machine.

Like CJ, I drive a Landcruiser, but its my daily drive - 30mpg, but its able for anything as you know. I drove a Santa Fe for a week, and while its grand, I wouldnt bring it across anything more than a damp field. You'll end up compromising somewhere, if not on tax and mpg, then on power, ability, and reliability. Its down to what you need most.

Lullymore24

TrailerBob wrote: »

As others have said, Santa Fe or Sportage will defintiely be closest to your criteria, but if you're talking about adding sump guards and gearbox protection, then I have to ask what terrain you plan on driving over? Ground that rough is no place for an intermediate 'suv' type machine.

Like CJ, I drive a Landcruiser, but its my daily drive - 30mpg, but its able for anything as you know. I drove a Santa Fe for a week, and while its grand, I wouldnt bring it across anything more than a damp field. You'll end up compromising somewhere, if not on tax and mpg, then on power, ability, and reliability. Its down to what you need most.

I normally commute to work ~40miles per day each way.
I also go shooting and need something for that.
The Commercial Tax loophole is now gone so 3L is €1237 to Tax I believe.

Every Santa Fe I see is 2x4.

I want Reliability, and to be able to drive up mountain roads/tracks in winter without fear of getting Stuck.
If I get 16" wheels I can get BF Goodrich A/T Tyres,
If it has 17" rims All I get is road tyres.

The Sonata, some come with 16" Rims so good tyres can be had.
I was quite surprised that a 2L would be as hard on fuel as a 3L:eek:
trying to weigh up Tax/Vs Price of vehicle

Stonewolf

Lullymore24 wrote: »

I normally commute to work ~40miles per day each way.
I also go shooting and need something for that.
The Commercial Tax loophole is now gone so 3L is €1237 to Tax I believe.

Every Santa Fe I see is 2x4.

I want Reliability, and to be able to drive up mountain roads/tracks in winter without fear of getting Stuck.
If I get 16" wheels I can get BF Goodrich A/T Tyres,
If it has 17" rims All I get is road tyres.

The Sonata, some come with 16" Rims so good tyres can be had.
I was quite surprised that a 2L would be as hard on fuel as a 3L:eek:
trying to weigh up Tax/Vs Price of vehicle

I'm not a massively knowledgeable person on such things but ... A quick search on Eiretyres didn't bring up any BFGs but did give General Grabber ATs for that size so offroad tyres are available at 17".

TPM

If there was a cheap to run (tax insurance and fuel) go anywhere reasonably comfortable jeep we would all be driving them.

They are just not out there look at the "good" 4x4 they are all 2.8-3.1l, Why?
because they need power to drive the 4 wheels up a mountain with this means they have low gearing and tyre patterns with poor rolling resistance and thus bad for fuel economy.

you can get a suzuki jimny which is only 1.3 cheap to tax and insure will go places some bigger jeeps wont, but you get no comfort and wont get 40mpg

Alot of people of people nowadays seem to be buying classic jeeps for cheap tax and insurance, but there are issues with this.

Lullymore24

TPM wrote: »

If there was a cheap to run (tax insurance and fuel) go anywhere reasonably comfortable jeep we would all be driving them.

They are just not out there look at the "good" 4x4 they are all 2.8-3.1l, Why?
because they need power to drive the 4 wheels up a mountain with this means they have low gearing and tyre patterns with poor rolling resistance and thus bad for fuel economy.

you can get a suzuki jimny which is only 1.3 cheap to tax and insure will go places some bigger jeeps wont, but you get no comfort and wont get 40mpg

Alot of people of people nowadays seem to be buying classic jeeps for cheap tax and insurance, but there are issues with this.

I know, I know.
I'm trying to make a balanced decision here.
Best of a bad lot so to speak.

I was warned that the Jimny are animal hard on fuel as they are so Revy
And too small to be driving 80 miles a day.

Are Short wheel base 4x4's any better on fuel Economy over Crewcab or similar?

TPM

Lullymore24 wrote: »

Are Short wheel base 4x4's any better on fuel Economy over Crewcab or similar?

From what Ive seen there is basically no difference in them.
Thee can be more difference between tow jeeps the same type and model(eg 3.0 lwb) than between different models (eg. lwb vs swb, or even different engine sizes)

I was once told if you are worried about mpg dont buy a 4x4, and that goes for cars as well as jeeps.

tbh in my opinion you were doing well with 30mpg from a 3.0l
You will bw doing well to get a jeep to match that specially if you want a/t or m/t tyres on it.

You could do some calculations, and work out the cost of keeping what you have versus changing it, cheapist tax on any 4x4 is going to be €600 ish. at the moment is it worth spending €8000-€10000 to save €600 ish a year?

Lullymore24

I will need to do some sums.
And talk to the bank......:o

Wicklowandy

Just to clear this up, grand vitaras to 02 are a mitsubishi old school td, not too bad, watch for hg issues, 30-35 mpg.

Post 02 are a peugeot hdi 110 engine, and that is one of the best diesel engines of the period if minded. 40 is achievable, but they are a small yoke inside, towing limited 1.8t.

The renault dci/dti of the period are poor, but are renault / nissan /opel commercial used only.

We had an old school 99td years ago, and it was reliable, but was a bit either or; as bad as a big jeep on the road, not strong enough to tow.

Top Dog

Lullymore24 wrote: »

I want Reliability, and to be able to drive up mountain roads/tracks in winter without fear of getting Stuck.
If I get 16" wheels I can get BF Goodrich A/T Tyres,
If it has 17" rims All I get is road tyres.

BFG All Terrain's can be gotten in 17" & 18" too. Camskill.co.uk list a 265-65-17 which is the standard size for later Pajero's and LandCruisers.

If you're flush then you can even get them in 20" & 22" but you'd probably have to order them from the USA.

Bigus

Now I see why all the Dacia dusters are sold out til July, even thou the capital cost was more than your budget they had great finance deals.

Perhaps you need two vehicles , classic jeep and an econo hatch .

Lullymore24

Bigus wrote: »

Now I see why all the Dacia dusters are sold out til July, even thou the capital cost was more than your budget they had great finance deals.

Perhaps you need two vehicles , classic jeep and an econo hatch .

Price of 2 x Insurance is too much.
I'll buy in Jan, when prices fall more.

Sonata or Crew-Cab is a toss of the Dice. I'll wait to see the New Tax Bands for Co2

Top Dog

Lullymore24 wrote: »

Price of 2 x Insurance is too much.
I'll buy in Jan, when prices fall more.

Sonata or Crew-Cab is a toss of the Dice. I'll wait to see the New Tax Bands for Co2

If you're going to wait then you might as well do it properly and wait till April when the market for 4x4's is more sensible. With the weather getting worse now the prices are going upwards and will stay upwards until the weather improves. Come April you'll have a lot of the impulse buyer's looking to rid themselves of the thirsty 4x4 once the roads are safe for a car again

TPM

Lullymore24 wrote: »

Price of 2 x Insurance is too much.
I'll buy in Jan, when prices fall more.

Sonata or Crew-Cab is a toss of the Dice. I'll wait to see the New Tax Bands for Co2

Top Dog wrote: »

If you're going to wait then you might as well do it properly and wait till April when the market for 4x4's is more sensible. With the weather getting worse now the prices are going upwards and will stay upwards until the weather improves. Come April you'll have a lot of the impulse buyer's looking to rid themselves of the thirsty 4x4 once the roads are safe for a car again

from what Ive seen of the 4x4 market the last few years the prices are not really dropping, the more expensive tax which I thought should bring down prices seems to be more than offset by people thinking that the current weather trends necessitates the need for a 4x4.

when buying a jeep or any car I think its more a matter of looking around and waiting untill the one that suits your needs and budget comes up. Having the time to wait and look is the secrete to getting a bargin.
The traditional wait till after christmas, the new year, when the weather improves dont seem to be as relevant any more

Red Sheds

Would you try a Volvo XC 70, might not have the ground clearance but will take plenty abuse and go alot of places that a full 4 x 4 will. Can pick up a 7 - 8 year only one for reasonable enough money within your budget. Tax for mine is €1,000, 42 - 43 mpg

Lullymore24

Red Sheds wrote: »

Would you try a Volvo XC 70, might not have the ground clearance but will take plenty abuse and go alot of places that a full 4 x 4 will. Can pick up a 7 - 8 year only one for reasonable enough money within your budget. Tax for mine is €1,000, 42 - 43 mpg

Food for thought.......
A friend has XC90 and I drove that in the mountains and it handled OK, i nevr took it off road though.
Not sure if you can get off road tyres even?

What tyre size is on yours?

Pottler

Fiat do a 4*4 Panda...

101sean

Pottler wrote: »

Fiat do a 4*4 Panda...

very good it is too, if you can find one....

Lullymore24

Pottler wrote: »

Fiat do a 4*4 Panda...

Fix
It
Again
Tony

Thanks but no thanks, been there.
Great Tractors mind

Marlow

Lullymore24 wrote: »

I had a 3L that did 30mpg so I was hoping a 2L would do 40 :eek: Or close to it.:(

A smaller engine in and around the same size vehicle and used for the same purpose will never use much less. It'll be more stressed to archieve the same and actually use more and have more wear and tear. Especially when it comes to 4x4's.

Lullymore24 wrote: »

Are Short wheel base 4x4's any better on fuel Economy over Crewcab or similar?

SWB, MWB or LWB doesn't make a darn difference. It's the size (as in wind-drag) and weight of the vehicle that makes the difference to the fuel-economy.

There's no problem finding 17" or bigger offroad tyres. And any tyre can be stuck on any vehicle if the dimensions and load rating fit. No tyre is brand specific.

As others have pointed out: You're looking for a unicorn.

/M

Lullymore24

Marlow wrote: »

A smaller engine in and around the same size vehicle and used for the same purpose will never use much less. It'll be more stressed to archieve the same and actually use more and have more wear and tear. Especially when it comes to 4x4's.



SWB, MWB or LWB doesn't make a darn difference. It's the size (as in wind-drag) and weight of the vehicle that makes the difference to the fuel-economy.

There's no problem finding 17" or bigger offroad tyres. And any tyre can be stuck on any vehicle if the dimensions and load rating fit. No tyre is brand specific.

As others have pointed out: You're looking for a unicorn.

/M

I've created a shortlist

1) Kia Sonata Poor Fuel, Cheap-ish Tax, good offroad
2) Volvo XC70 High-ish Tax Good Fuel but expensive 4x4 car to buy
3) Cheap crew-cab and take the hit on Tax & Fuel but balances out overall?

I have to do my sums and see overall which works out best, as I do around 20k per year with at least 5k offroad/mountain or country.

Pottler

I bought a Sorento passenger recently, find it very very good on diesel and brilliant at towing - also wins prize for steadiest yoke I've ever driven on icy roads, not one slip at all and we grit roads so I'm always out in the frost..

paddy147

Lullymore24 wrote: »

Guys.
I'm looking for a 4x4 that will offer good mpg for long haul, at least 40mpg and Tax that is affordable.
All I can find is 2x4's on CBG
It will be Taxed PRIVATE and must be able to seat Children in compliance with Irish Law.
Price Tag €6-8000 max.

I've driven Lancruisers, highlux,L200's, Troopers etc, but the Tax is an issue now and Fuel costs.
All help appreciated

Buy a Fiat Panda.


4x4,low tax and good boot space and good mpg