Irish Rail - Draft Heuston 2013 Rail Timetable

Hungerford

Iarnrod Eireann have finally issued the 2013 draft timetable for services out of Heuston:

http://www.irishrail.ie/cat_news.jsp?i=4732&p=116&n=237

I haven't read it yet but I know that we've been waiting ages for it so I decided to post it up ASAP.

dowlingm

Think this should go into main C&T from this more technical sub-board - what do you reckon mods?

LXFlyer

The draft timetable for 2013 for lines out of Heuston has been published.

The timetables are here:
http://www.irishrail.ie/media/Draft2013HeustonTimetable1.pdf

A summary of the changes and the form for submitting your opinions are here:
http://www.irishrail.ie/cat_news.jsp?i=4732&p=116&n=237

Sponge Bob

Lot of sub 2:30 galway dublin times and one headline 2:10 run in there.

LXFlyer

Actually there are two 2 hour 10 minute trips, one in each direction.

Also now two train each way Dublin/Cork in 2 hours 30 minutes on weekdays and substantially more on Sundays. Most weekday Dublin/Cork trains now take 2 hours 35 minutes.

dowlingm

Took out the Alan Kelly express on the Nenagh branch (good) but failed to reinstate a proper commuter departure in the 1720-1740 area (bad) so arguably the timetable is in worse shape than before AK messed with it. They are fixated on connections to Dublin rather than to Limerick.

Overall the picture is of incremental stuff when they needed a bold statement of intent.

munchkin_utd

dowlingm wrote: »

Took out the Alan Kelly express on the Nenagh branch (good) but failed to reinstate a proper commuter departure in the 1720-1740 area (bad) so arguably the timetable is in worse shape than before AK messed with it. They are fixated on connections to Dublin rather than to Limerick.
<snip>.

from the strategic review the passenger numbers into Limerick are chronically bad so it was recommended to focus on Dublin bound connections.

it sorta makes sense as most commuting to Limerick daily would be heading to the Industrial areas which are NOT in the city centre near the rail station.

bk

Good to see them dropping journey times, a change in the right direction. But still not good enough to make me change my mind to take the bus coach instead.

To Cork you are now talking 2:30 or 2:35 which equates to 2:50 to 2:55 when you add the time to go to/from Hueston on Luas.

So that is only 10 to 5 minutes faster then by coach bus, not worth it for a 2.5 to 3.5 price difference.

I suppose at least it is faster now, rather then slower, so a positive move in the right direction.

mydiscworld

This is good news.

I note for Cork, all trains to Dublin now go at 20 past the hour, instead of half past.

I'd say this is to avoid cases where one train has to stop as other is in Limerick Junction, and the odd time one train going through Cork tunnel.

The 7.20pm train has also been reinstated. It was madness getting rid of that. One of their busiest trains every Sunday night.

Lapin

Shame the 22.15 from Galway doesn't run on Saturday.

Losty Dublin

mydiscworld wrote: »

This is good news.

I note for Cork, all trains to Dublin now go at 20 past the hour, instead of half past.

I'd say this is to avoid cases where one train has to stop as other is in Limerick Junction, and the odd time one train going through Cork tunnel.

It's just to do with avoiding crossing trains in the tunnel in Cork. Limerick Junction often has received two mainline trains at once so it's not an issue.

dowlingm

munchkin_utd wrote: »

from the strategic review the passenger numbers into Limerick are chronically bad so it was recommended to focus on Dublin bound connections.

it sorta makes sense as most commuting to Limerick daily would be heading to the Industrial areas which are NOT in the city centre near the rail station.

The problem is that the commuter service as scheduled has some major failings:

1. The morning train has to be positioned from Limerick daily
2. The train runs ex Nenagh where it must compete vs. JJK and BE
3. No connection to Castletroy without going into town and back
4. Poor options in the evening for 9-5 or 9.30-5.30 workers etc.

Ideally the morning train would be based in Roscrea (no commuter competition to Limerick I can find) and would arrive earlier than the competing services. The trick would be how to schedule passing the northbound 2800 to connect to the Dublin service and whether a connection with the 0740 departure of the 323 ex Castleconnell to provide local Castletroy area connectivity, since a 90m platform at Lisnagry or east Annacotty is too much to hope for.

GLaDOS

Am I correct in assuming you can't book any trains for next year til the timetable in confirmed? Want to book a return trip to waterford mid January.

LXFlyer

dowlingm wrote: »

The problem is that the commuter service as scheduled has some major failings:

1. The morning train has to be positioned from Limerick daily
2. The train runs ex Nenagh where it must compete vs. JJK and BE
3. No connection to Castletroy without going into town and back
4. Poor options in the evening for 9-5 or 9.30-5.30 workers etc.

Ideally the morning train would be based in Roscrea (no commuter competition to Limerick I can find) and would arrive earlier than the competing services. The trick would be how to schedule passing the northbound 2800 to connect to the Dublin service and whether a connection with the 0740 departure of the 323 ex Castleconnell to provide local Castletroy area connectivity, since a 90m platform at Lisnagry or east Annacotty is too much to hope for.

It would not be the best idea to base a train in Roscrea as the station is on an incline....

Jamie2k9

The 7.20pm train has also been reinstated. It was madness getting rid of that. One of their busiest trains every Sunday night.

The 19.30 from Cork always operated on Sundays, it was only dropped Mon-Sat.

Carawaystick

The first train from Dublin to Cork arrives at twenty five to ten?
The earliest you can get to Cork from Adamstown is quarter to twelve?

The First train to Limerick gets in at ten o'clock?

a shambles

foggy_lad

Carawaystick wrote: »

The first train from Dublin to Cork arrives at twenty five to ten?
The earliest you can get to Cork from Adamstown is quarter to twelve?

The First train to Limerick gets in at ten o'clock?

a shambles

From Adamstown you will need to get the train to portlaoise or heuston tu connect with the cork train.

And all the emphasis has always been on getting to Dublin from the sticks early because who in their right mind would want to get to Galway cork limerick or any little regional town before elevenses?

end of the road

foggy_lad wrote: »

all the emphasis has always been on getting to Dublin from the sticks early because who in their right mind would want to get to Galway cork limerick or any little regional town before elevenses?

certainly not anyone working in CIE management

foggy_lad

end of the road wrote: »

certainly not anyone working in CIE management

There wouldn't be a proper 1st class service on any early trains out to the savage wilds of the west and south anyway so they couldn't be expected to travel with the working classes!

dowlingm

Carawaystick wrote: »

The first train from Dublin to Cork arrives at twenty five to ten?
The earliest you can get to Cork from Adamstown is quarter to twelve?

The First train to Limerick gets in at ten o'clock?

a shambles

I really thought they might try an early service with this timetable, which would double as a Charleville commuter and avoid sending a Mk4 to Mallow to do the 0800 commuter. But there's no ambition left in IE, it seems.

LoonyLovegood

I like the changes to the Galway-Dublin times, particularly the afternoon ones. Makes a lot more sense for IE going at half past the hour, they'll get a lot more of the college students who finish at one, who would have gone on the bus instead.

thisisadamh

Quite like the new speed increases on Westport timetable. But what is with the morning service from Heuston, if Westport passengers have to change into a commuter railcar at Athlone that would be poor form. Its not too bad if Galway passengers have to change because their journey is less than an hour from Athlone, but the Wesport crowd have 2 hour Journey from Athlone.

Losty Dublin

thisisadamh wrote: »

Quite like the new speed increases on Westport timetable. But what is with the morning service from Heuston, if Westport passengers have to change into a commuter railcar at Athlone that would be poor form. Its not too bad if Galway passengers have to change because their journey is less than an hour from Athlone, but the Wesport crowd have 2 hour Journey from Athlone.

That has been the way since last year for the early morning and mid afternoon trains to Westport. Under the new timetable there will now be 3 direct trains to Westport.

LXFlyer

thisisadamh wrote: »

Quite like the new speed increases on Westport timetable. But what is with the morning service from Heuston, if Westport passengers have to change into a commuter railcar at Athlone that would be poor form. Its not too bad if Galway passengers have to change because their journey is less than an hour from Athlone, but the Wesport crowd have 2 hour Journey from Athlone.

They won't be changing onto a commuter railcar - it will be an Intercity railcar.

Sponge Bob

I'm waiting for the 2 hours 10 propoganda to start in Galway despite tge fact that only 1 train a day is scheduled to run at that timing and most are nearer 2:30 and a tad more on occasion.

LXFlyer

Sponge Bob wrote: »

I'm waiting for the 2 hours 10 propoganda to start in Galway despite tge fact that only 1 train a day is scheduled to run at that timing and most are nearer 2:30 and a tad more on occasion.

It's two trains - one in each direction.

Railways always have headline trains - which tend to be the key business timings. Other trains do have to serve the stations along the line as well!

Needless to say you've made a very sweeping statement which is not based in fact. Out of 18 trains a day on weekdays, 13 are 2:20 or less. There are a few that take longer, and this is down to having to pass several trains en route, with the peak traffic flow getting the priority.

Dublin-Galway timings are:
2:10 1 train
2:15 5 trains
2:20 2 trains
2:30 1 train

Galway-Dublin timings are:
2:10 1 train
2:15 1 train
2:20 3 trains
2:27 1 train
2:30 2 trains
2:40 1 train

LXFlyer

Carawaystick wrote: »

The first train from Dublin to Cork arrives at twenty five to ten?
The earliest you can get to Cork from Adamstown is quarter to twelve?

The First train to Limerick gets in at ten o'clock?

a shambles

It might help if you checked the timetable options a little better before making sweeping statements.

As it happens the phantom traveller from Adamstown (and I suspect he/she is phantom) could get to Cork by 10:35 by taking the 07:25 train to Heuston and then the 08:00 to Cork, a perfectly valid route option.

The first train to Limerick arrives there at 09:07 and not 10:00.

end of the road

lxflyer wrote: »

They won't be changing onto a commuter railcar - it will be an Intercity railcar.

they shouldn't have to change at all, ridiculous, a split and join service would be better, if IE had bothered to lengthen platforms at strategic locations they could allow 9 car split and join services, 3 to galway, 6 to wesport (split at MJ) 3 to westport 3 to balinagh, if both westport and galway services require 6 car sets, just send a 6 car on the galway service and 2 sets of 3 on the westport/balinagh service with a split at MJ. would mean passengers not being inconvenienced by pointless changes. but none of above is going to happen.

LXFlyer

It's a cross platform interchange - hardly the end of the world. Surprisingly enough the rest of the world appears to cope reasonably well with changing trains

It also means both trains can be 6 pce sets if needed and facilitates the evening commuter service from Galway to Athlone.

Jamie2k9

Only reason I can see for the Westport change at Athlone in the mornings is because IE will be running the 07.35 as a 3 peice set most of the week except mabye Mon, Fri, Sat for most of the year then it will be a 6 all weekly during spring/summer to cope with demand. I'm sure it will save a lot of fuel compared to the current set up 07.30 service which has to be a 6 peice to Athlone when I can't see demand justifying it.

Its not a major problem changing trains.

monument

bk wrote: »

To Cork you are now talking 2:30 or 2:35 which equates to 2:50 to 2:55 when you add the time to go to/from Hueston on Luas.

Dart Underground would / could be a game changer in that regard.

Given the relatively fast connections it would / could give to different parts of the city centre (south city centre, Docklands etc), direct services along the southwest-northern Dart / commuter lines, fast connections to the northwest-southeast railway services, faster connections to the green line Luas when heading south, and connections to the park and rides linked to those rail lines. That's not including Metro North -- Dart Underground on its own would have connected so much.

The Nutty M

monument wrote: »

Dart Underground would / could be a game changer in that regard.

Given the relatively fast connections it would / could give to different parts of the city centre (south city centre, Docklands etc), direct services along the southwest-northern Dart / commuter lines, fast connections to the northwest-southeast railway services, faster connections to the green line Luas when heading south, and connections to the park and rides linked to those rail lines. That's not including Metro North -- Dart Underground on its own would have connected so much.

You sound like you are reading a speech written by Alastair Campbell.

Sponge Bob

end of the road wrote: »

they shouldn't have to change at all, ridiculous, a split and join service would be better, if IE had bothered to lengthen platforms at strategic locations they could allow 9 car split and join services.

Indeed I think Athlone could handle about a 9 car split join.Perhaps with one carriage off platform.

EDIT, Athlone can handle 9 cars on its shortest platform and 12 cars on the two long platforms.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=81921275

Galway can handle 9 cars, westport 6.

All 22000 series.

monument

The Nutty M wrote: »

You sound like you are reading a speech written by Alastair Campbell.

That does not make any of it untrue. Dart Underground could / can / will be a game changer in many ways.

Sponge Bob

monument wrote: »

Dart Underground could / can / will be a game changer in many ways.

It would be indeed, were it built. Lets see first how 'demand' holds up if the Free Travel is restricted in the next 2 budgets...eg to off peak 9:30 am onwards.

Jamie2k9

Indeed I think Athlone could handle about a 9 car split join.Perhaps with one carriage off platform.

EDIT, Athlone can handle 9 cars on its shortest platform and 12 cars on the two long platforms.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showt...php?p=81921275

Galway can handle 9 cars, westport 6.

All 22000 series.

Problem is a 9 car set could only stop at stations that can handle 9 car sets which are few and far between except on Cork line.

foggy_lad

Will these proposed changes mean IE will stop using commuter DMUs for the Sligo service? Saw a 6car 29000 in Connolly for Sligo the other day and many of the passengers were sitting on the dirty floor at the doors as there were not enough seats and there was a child in a wheelchair whose parents had to stand out at the door beside him as there is no proper wheelchair space on these trains. Most passengers looked pissed off at the lack of service, needless to say there were no IE staff on hand to help or hear passenger grievances!

Maybe not stopping in Maynooth or not allowing those only going to Maynooth on the Sligo trains would help?

When are IE going to cater properly for disabled passengers and more importantly when are they going to stop using unsuitable commuter trains on inter-city routes?

Jamie2k9

When are IE going to cater properly for disabled passengers

Overall I think IE staff do a good job when it comes to catering for disabled passengers. They are nice and helpful etc what more do you want. (referring to Heuston)

foggy_lad

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Overall I think IE staff do a good job when it comes to catering for disabled passengers. They are nice and helpful etc what more do you want. (referring to Heuston)

overall STAFF are excellent! but when there is not a space on a train for a wheelchair user to sit with their friends/family on a three hour journey the company are not catering for passengers. Are there even wheelchair accessible toilets on those 29000s?

end of the road

foggy_lad wrote: »

Will these proposed changes mean IE will stop using commuter DMUs for the Sligo service?

probably never, shur don't they have to use 22000s on the m3 parkway service, couldn't have those people slumming it on a 29 k now could we? shur we can let the savages on the sligo and rosslare lines put up with them shur we want to shut and lift those lines so it will be a perfect way to hopefully drive away passengers to achieve our goal.

foggy_lad wrote: »

Maybe not stopping in Maynooth or not allowing those only going to Maynooth on the Sligo trains would help?

probably all though i suppose the reason they stop there is to pick up those from the college who want to go to sligo? they could just not anounce maynooth as a stop for sligo services at connolly but if people go online they will probably find out that it stops there so not anouncing it would probably be pointless. of course they could have a maynooth service running a few minutes behind and have an anouncement either on the sligo service or on the platform, "due to expected overcrowding on the such and such time service to sligo passengers for maynooth please do not board this train, please go to platform such and such as their will be a service to maynooth in 10 minutes time. i think most would be obliging and do so if overcrowding is involved as nobody likes overcrowding.

foggy_lad wrote: »

when are they going to stop using unsuitable commuter trains on inter-city routes?

when i become head of irish rail (i wish)

end of the road

foggy_lad wrote: »

Are there even wheelchair accessible toilets on those 29000s?

i think the 27 28 and 29 toilets are wheelchair accessible, their rather big and have bars (all though they are like rollercosters with all the rocking and shaking) can't comment on the 2600s as i don't think i was ever on them.

Jamie2k9

overall STAFF are excellent! but when there is not a space on a train for a wheelchair user to sit with their friends/family on a three hour journey the company are not catering for passengers. Are there even wheelchair accessible toilets on those 29000s?

Can't speak for the 28/900 sets but with 4 wheelchair spaces per 3 car ICR I can't see it being full.

So what you don't sit with them, You could book only in advance but as the people travling with the wheelchair user will not be paying for a ticket in most cases or you could be at the station well in advanse to be first on the train. I think cases are few and far between. You can't blame IE for this. Anyway most people would move if a wheelchair user cames and has family with them.

As far as I know all IE fleet have wheelchair toilets.

foggy_lad

end of the road wrote: »

probably all though i suppose the reason they stop there is to pick up those from the college who want to go to sligo? they could just not anounce maynooth as a stop for sligo services at connolly but if people go online they will probably find out that it stops there so not anouncing it would probably be pointless. of course they could have a maynooth service running a few minutes behind and have an anouncement either on the sligo service or on the platform, "due to expected overcrowding on the such and such time service to sligo passengers for maynooth please do not board this train, please go to platform such and such as their will be a service to maynooth in 10 minutes time. i think most would be obliging and do so if overcrowding is involved as nobody likes overcrowding.

They could just stop letting people going to Maynooth on board the Sligo trains.

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Can't speak for the 28/900 sets but with 4 wheelchair spaces per 3 car ICR I can't see it being full.

So what you don't sit with them, You could book only in advance but as the people travling with the wheelchair user will not be paying for a ticket in most cases or you could be at the station well in advanse to be first on the train. I think cases are few and far between. You can't blame IE for this. Anyway most people would move if a wheelchair user cames and has family with them.

As far as I know all IE fleet have wheelchair toilets.

My post was describing one service and the 29000 train being used and from what i saw there are no wheelchair spaces apart from at the doorways. I mentioned it because there was a wheelchair passenger(a minor) with his parents who could not sit with their child on the train whether they had paid for their tickets or not! I would also not consider the standard toilets on those trains to be wheelchair accessible but Maybe there is a wheelchair toilet on each train.

end of the road

foggy_lad wrote: »

They could just stop letting people going to Maynooth on board the Sligo trains.

yes i agree, i didn't say otherwise, however i asked what would be the best way to do it.

foggy_lad wrote: »

I would not consider the standard toilets on those trains to be wheelchair accessible but Maybe there is a wheelchair toilet on each train.

all the toilets on the 26 27 and 2800 railcars are more or less the same size as far as i know, their are a couple of different types of toilets on the 29s though but whether their all the same size i don't know, i don't know anything about wheelchair accessable toilets.

foggy_lad

end of the road wrote: »

yes i agree, i didn't say otherwise, however i asked what would be the best way to do it.

all the toilets on the 26 27 and 2800 railcars are more or less the same size as far as i know, their are a couple of different types of toilets on the 29s though but whether their all the same size i don't know, i don't know anything about wheelchair accessable toilets.

They could specify that a normal ticket to Maynooth can't be used on intercity trains then stop anyone getting off the Sligo trains in Maynooth and issue them with massive fines for travelling on the train to a station they can't buy a ticket to.

As for the toilets, afaik the 2600/2700/2800/29000s don't have wheelchair accessible toilets but the intercity DMUs and train carriages all have accessible toilets

end of the road

foggy_lad wrote: »

They could specify that a normal ticket to Maynooth can't be used on intercity trains then stop anyone getting off the Sligo trains in Maynooth and issue them with massive fines for travelling on the train to a station they can't buy a ticket to.

i mentioned something similar last yearor the year before on the save the rail facebook during another discussion,, got nothing but excuses from a RUI guy as to why it couldn't be done, needless to say i gave up. such an option might be usful for rosslare trains to stop those traveling to bray or greystones if theirs expected overcrowding, seeing as 3 car cattle trains or 4 car savage/peasant wagons will be the only trains able to operate on the line because of more incompentents by irish rail meaning lack of selective door opening which would allow 6 car sets to operate and as an anouncement for people to move to the front of the train is so technical for people to understand, god i wish we were back in the old days of mark 2s and cravens but in good condition instead of wrecks, none of this h&s crap.

foggy_lad wrote: »

As for the toilets, afaik the 2600/2700/2800/29000s don't have wheelchair accessible toilets but the intercity DMUs and train carriages all have accessible toilets

fair enough.

foggy_lad

end of the road wrote: »

i mentioned something similar last yearor the year before on the save the rail facebook during another discussion,, got nothing but excuses from a RUI guy as to why it couldn't be done, needless to say i gave up. such an option might be usful for rosslare trains to stop those traveling to bray or greystones if theirs expected overcrowding, seeing as 3 car cattle trains or 4 car savage/peasant wagons will be the only trains able to operate on the line because of more incompentents by irish rail meaning lack of selective door opening which would allow 6 car sets to operate and as an anouncement for people to move to the front of the train is so technical for people to understand, god i wish we were back in the old days of mark 2s and cravens but in good condition instead of wrecks, none of this h&s crap.

fair enough.

It would be very easy on the Rosslare and Sligo trains to make it "intercity"only and remove the local passengers going to Dunlaoighre Bray Greystones and Maynooth and the same could be done for the northern line to free up space on the enterprise as far as Malahide.

dowlingm

How does a person from Dun Laoghaire get to Gorey then?

Here's the solution to Maynooth/Sligo: form two queues behind prominent signs.
Queue #1: Sligo/Longford/Mullingar/Enfield
Queue #2: Maynooth

Queue #1 boards first. Maynoothers in Queue 1 to be politely but FIRMLY directed to the back of Queue 2. At less than 10 mins to go, allow general boarding.

The same system should apply on the Enterprise 1650 so that Drogheda-Dundalk-points north travel can be facilitated without a change in Dundalk. Something similar could be done by converting an incoming intercity to a through service post DASH2 to get a semi-express onto the Rosslare line - trouble is there's no overtaking possible in that stretch the way it's notionally possible going NW and N (at Clongriffin).

end of the road

dowlingm wrote: »

How does a person from Dun Laoghaire get to Gorey then?

the train will stop in Dun Laoghaire but as pick up only.

dowlingm wrote: »

Here's the solution to Maynooth/Sligo: form two queues behind prominent signs.
Queue #1: Sligo/Longford/Mullingar/Enfield
Queue #2: Maynooth

Queue #1 boards first. Maynoothers in Queue 1 to be politely but FIRMLY directed to the back of Queue 2. At less than 10 mins to go, allow general boarding.

The same system should apply on the Enterprise 1650 so that Drogheda-Dundalk-points north travel can be facilitated without a change in Dundalk. Something similar could be done by converting an incoming intercity to a through service post DASH2 to get a semi-express onto the Rosslare line - trouble is there's no overtaking possible in that stretch the way it's notionally possible going NW and N (at Clongriffin).

sounds good to me as a solution, will it be implemented? no

gawker

Any idea when the final timetable will be made public? The new timetable doesn't really work for me as per the draft, so not sure I should buy an annual ticket.

LeftBlank

Due to go live on 20th January. Should be online before then. Currently with NTA for approval.