Palestine recognised by the UN General Assembly

LoonyLovegood

According to the AP, Palestine has been recognised by the UN as a state.

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/palestinians-certain-win-recognition-state

UNITED NATIONS (AP) — The U.N. General Assembly has voted by a more than two-thirds majority to recognize the state of Palestine.

The resolution upgrading the Palestinians' status to a nonmember observer state at the United Nations was approved by the 193-member world body late Thursday by a vote of 138-9 with 41 abstentions.

Wacker The Attacker

We can guess who at least 2 of the countries that voted against it were

woodoo

Thats good, if left to Israel and the US they would be left to rot away.

laoch na mona

finally

Wacker The Attacker

woodoo wrote: »

Thats good, if left to Israel and the US they would be left to rot away.

It will be left to the U.S and Israel and they probably will rot away.

The U.N isnt worth a ****.

dsmythy

US and Canada said no. UK abstained, at least they were planning to anyway.

Wacker The Attacker

How will this advance the cause of the palestinian people?

Nodin

...suprised at the Canadians.

steddyeddy

CTYIgirl wrote: »

According to the AP, Palestine has been recognised by the UN as a state.

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/palestinians-certain-win-recognition-state

Brilliant news!

seamus

Wacker The Attacker wrote: »

How will this advance the cause of the palestinian people?

Palestine are now free to submit a petition to become a full U.N. member, which would give them voting rights at the UN as well as international recognition as a sovereign and indepedent state.

It doesn't prevent Israel from doing anything, but recognition as a sovereign state is somewhat crucial if you want to ask for assistance from the international community.

Wacker The Attacker

Nodin wrote: »

...suprised at the Canadians.

Why?

Wacker The Attacker

seamus wrote: »

Palestine are now free to submit a petition to become a full U.N. member, which would give them voting rights at the UN as well as international recognition as a sovereign and indepedent state.

What then?

Nodin

Wacker The Attacker wrote: »

Why?

normally they've a progressive intelligent FP.

kowloon

They get a letter to say they're recognised on A4 with the officially approved UN letterhead.

Hande hoche!

Good to hear.

Wacker The Attacker

Nodin wrote: »

normally they've a progressive intelligent FP.

Does one vote at the UN change that?

GhostInTheRuins

Good. It won't change too much yet, but baby steps. Apart from the americans and israelies, who else voted no?

cunnifferous

GhostInTheRuins wrote: »

Good. It won't change too much yet, but baby steps. Apart from the americans and israelies, who else voted no?

Ragtag bunch of nations. From the obvious, to the 'who the hell are they'

US, Israel, Panama, Palau, Canada, Marshall Islands, Nauru, Czech Republic, Micronesia

seamus

Wacker The Attacker wrote: »

What then?

Ground invasions by Israel would quite rightly be considered an act of war and with enough support from other UN states, they could have sanctions placed upon Israel as well as "peacekeeping" military assistance.

Wacker The Attacker

cunnifferous wrote: »

Ragtag bunch of nations. Half of them I didn't even know were nations

US, Israel, Panama, Palau, Canada, Marshall Islands, Nauru, Czech Republic, Micronesia

Couldnt you say that about a lot of countries that voted in favour

Nodin

Wacker The Attacker wrote: »

Does one vote at the UN change that?

...it clearly indicates a shift, yes.

Wacker The Attacker

seamus wrote: »

Ground invasions by Israel would quite rightly be considered an act of war and with enough support from other UN states, they could have sanctions placed upon Israel as well as "peacekeeping" military assistance.

Why does Palestine need to be a part of the United Nations for ground invasions against it by Israel to be recognised as a war crime?

LoonyLovegood

Most of the ones who voted no rely heavily on the US for trade and aid.

Ireland voted yes, which I was moderately surprised about. Although considering the passport debacle with Israel last year, I suppose it was obvious.

Wacker The Attacker

Nodin wrote: »

...it clearly indicates a shift, yes.

What shift?

fergiesfolly

seamus wrote: »

Ground invasions by Israel would quite rightly be considered an act of war and with enough support from other UN states, they could have sanctions placed upon Israel as well as "peacekeeping" military assistance.

Does that also mean that rocket attacks from Palestine could be considered an act of war by a soverign nation and gives Isreal a legal basis for retaliation and ground invasion. Not that needing a legal reason stopped them before.

Wacker The Attacker

fergiesfolly wrote: »

Does that also mean that rocket attacks from Palestine could be considered an act of war by a soverign nation and gives Isreal a legal basis for retaliation and ground invasion. Not that needing a legal reason stopped them before.

Then why is any importance being attached to this vote?

seamus

fergiesfolly wrote: »

Does that also mean that rocket attacks from Palestine could be considered an act of war by a soverign nation and gives Isreal a legal basis for retaliation and ground invasion. Not that needing a legal reason stopped them before.

Only rocket attacks by an official Palestinian military. Rocket attacks from a terrorist organisation not backed by the Palestinian government, could not be considered war.

galwayrush

fergiesfolly wrote: »

Does that also mean that rocket attacks from Palestine could be considered an act of war by a soverign nation and gives Isreal a legal basis for retaliation and ground invasion. Not that needing a legal reason stopped them before.

Possibly.
Edit; Seamus above is correct.

Nodin

Wacker The Attacker wrote: »

What shift?

....its blatantly obvious what shift it signals.

Now - you answer a question - what would you rather the Palestinians do, instead of getting increased status on the international stage?

cunnifferous

Wacker The Attacker wrote: »

Couldnt you say that about a lot of countries that voted in favour

Yes you could. I guess my point was that outside of the US and Canada (and maybe the czechs) no other nations of note voted against the resolution.

cunnifferous

Just in case anyone's interested (or too lazy to look it up) here are the 41 abstentions

Albania, Andorra, Australia, Bahamas, Barbados, Bosnia/Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Cameroon, Colombia, Croatia, Dem. Rep. of Congo, Estonia, Fiji, Germany, Guatemala, Haiti, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Malawi, Monaco, Mongolia, Montenegro, Netherlands, Papua New Guinea, Paraguay, Poland, Korea, Moldova, Romania, Rwanda, Samoa, San Marino, Singapore, Slovakia, Slovenia, Macedonia, Togo, Tonga, UK, Vanuatu

Wacker The Attacker

Nodin wrote: »

....its blatantly obvious what shift it signals.

Now - you answer a question - what would you rather the Palestinians do, instead of getting increased status on the international stage?

Thats started back in the 70's at least. Not one vote ago

As long as Israel remains ally with the U.S it calls the shots. Increased status for Palestine on the world stage does not supercede this fact

Wacker The Attacker

cunnifferous wrote: »

Yes you could. I guess my point was that outside of the US and Canada (and maybe the czechs) no other nations of note voted against the resolution.

Several nations of note didnt support it either.

Germany and the U.K chief among them. They've at least 2 permanent members of the security council members that havent supported it outright

seamus

Wacker The Attacker wrote: »

Why does Palestine need to be a part of the United Nations for ground invasions against it by Israel to be recognised as a war crime?

Not a war crime necessarily, but the UN, ICJ and international law generally only comes into play when you have a problem between two states.
As long as Palestine was not recognised as independent, Israel was largely free to bulldoze (literally) over their land without much resistance.

Will this mean a change overnight? Of course not. But it's an important step in the liberation and protection of Palestine.

Pottler

"U.N actually does have some guts" shocker. Good for the UN, they had to do somthing right eventually.

vicwatson

cunnifferous wrote: »

Just in case anyone's interested (or too lazy to look it up) here are the 41 abstentions

Albania, Andorra, Australia, Bahamas, Barbados, Bosnia/Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Cameroon, Colombia, Croatia, Dem. Rep. of Congo, Estonia, Fiji, Germany, Guatemala, Haiti, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Malawi, Monaco, Mongolia, Montenegro, Netherlands, Papua New Guinea, Paraguay, Poland, Korea, Moldova, Romania, Rwanda, Samoa, San Marino, Singapore, Slovakia, Slovenia, Macedonia, Togo, Tonga, UK, Vanuatu

Cheers, was hoping someone would post this.

A few heavyweights in there. Why sit on the fence I wonder? Bah !

I suppose Germany and GB can't really be seen to be voting either way considering the history there.

Wacker The Attacker

seamus wrote: »

Not a war crime necessarily, but the UN, ICJ and international law generally only comes into play when you have a problem between two states.
As long as Palestine was not recognised as independent, Israel was largely free to bulldoze (literally) over their land without much resistance.

Will this mean a change overnight? Of course not. But it's an important step in the liberation and protection of Palestine.

Perhaps I'm naive but I fail to see why anyone needs U.N intervention or membership to prevent having their land bulldozed by a neighbouring nation

Wacker The Attacker

vicwatson wrote: »

Cheers, was hoping someone would post this.

A few heavyweights in there. Why sit on the fence I wonder? Bah !

I suppose Germany and GB can't really be seen to be voting either way considering the history there.

France voted, so did Spain, Portugal, amongst others

Wacker The Attacker

seamus wrote: »

Not a war crime necessarily, but the UN, ICJ and international law generally only comes into play when you have a problem between two states.
As long as Palestine was not recognised as independent, Israel was largely free to bulldoze (literally) over their land without much resistance.

Will this mean a change overnight? Of course not. But it's an important step in the liberation and protection of Palestine.

Perhaps not a war crime but not exactly legal either

statesaver

Kinda shocked that a lot of the central and eastern european countries voted no, Czech Rep, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania ........

cunnifferous

Wacker The Attacker wrote: »

Several nations of note didnt support it either.

Germany and the U.K chief among them. They've at least 2 permanent of thesecurity council members that havent supported it outright

Well Germany has a certain guilt complex that prevents it from voting against Israel. The U.K was by all accounts wavering between abstaining and voting yes. They had stated they would have voted 'yes' but couldn't get assurances that the PA wouldn't go straight to the ICC. Either way it's hard to portray the vote as anything other than showing strong international support for the PA's position.

kraggy

Wacker The Attacker wrote: »

Perhaps I'm naive but I fail to see why anyone needs U.N intervention or membership to prevent having their land bulldozed by a neighbouring nation

By being recognized as an actual country, the UN cannot stand by and let them be terrorized by Israel and have their land stolen.

More crucially, if Palestine is not recognized as a country, then Israel is not a "neighboring nation". Palestine remains in Israel and thus, Israel will feel it can do what it likes.

My name is URL

statesaver wrote: »

Kinda shocked that a lot of the central and eastern european countries voted no, Czech Rep, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania ........

A few dignitaries from each place voted no. It's not really indicative of the population as a whole. I'd hazard a guess and say they were playing it safe knowing that it was sure to pass without them.

Nodin

Wacker The Attacker wrote: »

......
As long as Israel remains ally with the U.S it calls the shots. Increased status for Palestine on the world stage does not supercede this fact

...that doesn't address what I asked you.

seamus

Wacker The Attacker wrote: »

Perhaps I'm naive but I fail to see why anyone needs U.N intervention or membership to prevent having their land bulldozed by a neighbouring nation

Important word there being "nation".

Without recognition as a state, an invasion of Palestine is no more serious than the Irish Army invading Cork.

Wacker The Attacker

kraggy wrote: »

By being recognized as an actual country, the UN cannot stand by and let them be terrorized by Israel and have their land stolen.

This is where it begins to get confusing. How can palestine be an "actual country" when its land was stolen?

Isn't this, at least in part, what the whole conflict is about?

By extension how does U.N recognition begin to rectify this whole situation given that a) several resolutions by the very same organisation have been ignored in the past and b) their "opposition", for want of a better term, are backed by one of the u.n' most powerful members?

wes

A largely symbolic victory that does have some tangible benefits. Its show how morally bankrupt the US and Israeli position really is, and imho a vote against this was approval for the illegal settlement project that has been going on for years.

Wacker The Attacker

seamus wrote: »

Important word there being "nation".

Without recognition as a state, an invasion of Palestine is no more serious than the Irish Army invading Cork.

As I've said above how can Palestine be a "nation"? Its land has been taken over and occupied by Israel. It isnt, cant be and wont be a "nation" until it get what it wants from Israel. This isnt their fault. This wont happen as long as Israel has the U.S in its corner.

c_man

Fair play.

Rhys Essien

Wacker The Attacker wrote: »

As I've said above how can Palestine be a "nation"? Its land has been taken over and occupied by Israel. It isnt, cant be and wont be a "nation" until it get what it wants from Israel. This isnt their fault. This wont happen as long as Israel has the U.S in its corner.

I imagine what is now being recognised by the UN is the 1967 borders of Palestine i.e ALL of the West Bank and Gaza Strip = Palestine.

Rhys Essien

Could not believe the aggressive response from the US after the vote results.They should be ashamed of themselves and should not be allowed in any future peace talks.