Match Preview & Thread: ENG vs NZ, Twickenham, Sat 1 Dec, 2:30pm

Swiwi

Engerland: 15 Alex Goode, 14 Chris Ashton, 13 Manu Tuilagi, 12 Brad Barritt, 11 Mike Brown, 10 Owen Farrell, 9 Ben Youngs, 8 Ben Morgan, 7 Chris Robshaw (c), 6 Tom Wood, 5 Geoff Parling, 4 Joe Launchbury, 3 Dan Cole, 2 Tom Youngs, 1 Alex Corbisiero.

Replacements: 16 David Paice, 17 David Wilson, 18 Mako Vunipola, 19 Courtney Lawes 20 James Haskell, 21 Danny Care, 22 Freddie Burns, 23 Jonathan Joseph.

New Zealand: 15 Israel Dagg, 14 Cory Jane, 13 Conrad Smith, 12 Ma'a Nonu, 11 Julian Savea, 10 Dan Carter, 9 Aaron Smith, 8 Kieran Read, 7 Richie McCaw (c), 6 Liam Messam, 5 Sam Whitelock, 4 Brodie Retallick, 3 Owen Franks, 2 Keven Mealamu, 1 Tony Woodcock.

Replacements: 16 Dane Coles, 17 Wyatt Crockett, 18 Charlie Faumunia, 19 Luke Romano, 20 Victor Vito, 21 Piri Weepu, 22 Aaron Cruden, 23 Ben Smith.

Every AB fan has the same recurring nightmare (no, not another RWC choke - thank you 2011): a defeat to the English at Twickenham. It becomes pure torture as “Swing Low, Sweet Chariot” rings out ad nauseum around the ground, William & Harry give each other high fives, 15 pasty white men with hairy chests and pot bellies remove their shirts and do victory lap after victory lap (actually 14 pasty white men & Manu Tuilagi), and to cap it all off there is wannabe-English journalist Stephen Jones (you know, the guy with the perennial moustache, long before Movember made them briefly fashionable) loitering at the post-match press conference with a self-satisfied grin on his dial and a wet patch on his beige corduroys (from spilling his beer in excitement, what were you thinking?) – and that is before he has shot off a wad of vitriol in his Sunday newspaper column. Decidedly, a loss to the English at Twickenham is to be avoided at all costs!

Well, not quite at all costs. Andrew Hore’s shameful act of thuggery was a blight on another decent performance against the Welsh, and he has rightly been handed a 5 week ban. Grist to the mill of the English media, if ever any was needed. At present, NZ is playing very attractive rugby, but I hope that is the last time I see such play from the M.I.B. That indiscretion aside, NZ scored some nice tries, in particular when Israel, much like the dags on a sheep, wobbled from side to side before freeing the backline and eventually Liam Messam for a try in the right hand corner.

Turning to the English, and they were back to their old tricks of advancing the score in multiples of 3, even forsaking a last-minute kick to the corner and a chance of glory. Instead they opted for a penalty kick to secure a meritorious, heroic, gallant near-triumph, no doubt leading to several “honourable defeat” laps at the Home of Rugby (I must confess I didn’t watch this match, as I had a fresh coat of paint in the bathroom to watch dry).

So, let’s look now at the respective sides. Starting with England, and Owen Farrell must have been as surprised as anyone when he was named as one of the top rugby players on display in international rugby 2011. In all likelihood it was injury to Toby Flood rather than any IRB nomination that has propelled him into the starting line-up. I think he will just be happy to play a solid game at 10 and give the selectors second thoughts before 6N 2013.

Courtney Lawes returns from injury to make the subs bench, and he is just the sort of player to take on the All Blacks, provided he doesn’t get too hot under the collar and see yellow or red. He would definitely come into Lions contention were I a selector, so a sustained run of controlled abrasive rugby is just what Gats will want to see.

In recent times, the S15 has started to see a trickle of Northern Hemisphere stars play down-under (most notably, perhaps, Freddie Michalak), and James Haskell apparently enjoyed his time with the Highlanders. Providing versatile loose forward cover on the bench, look for Hask to be introduced around the hour mark as the English seek to up the tempo into the home straight.

Now to the AIG men. Ever since Jonah Lomu steam-rolled Mike Catt at RWC ‘95, NZ has had a penchant for Kiwi wingers of Polynesian heritage (with a mention for ‘70s great Beegee Williams), and Wellington*-born Julian Savea is the next cab off the rank (or should that be tank off the production line). A few doubts still linger about his ability under the high ball, but he has already notched up 10 tries in just 8 tests, and at this rate will be giving Munster’s Dougie Howlett a run for his money as leading all time AB try-scorer.

Hore’s howler, and Kevvy’s calf almost catapulted Dane Coles to starting rake for this week’s match. The loss of Hore might be a blessing in disguise, as the former 2 are hardly spring chickens, and a potential RWC dry-run at Twickenham against the English is a great acid test for the young man. Let’s hope you turn out to be a great, Dane, and no poodle against the gnarled English forwards.

Last but not least, love him or loathe him, Richie McCaw laces up his boots for a final time before his self-imposed 6-month sabbatical. Rid of the foot injury which marred 2011, McCaw has been in consistently good form all season. He may no longer be the pilfering breakdown king of yesteryear, but for his leadership, all round game, and ability to read play, he remains peerless at 7.

Prediction: England and SA could basically change jerseys, they play pretty much the same style of rugby based around a forward pack of behemoths and a kicking five-eighths. I see the game being close initially, but NZ’s superior fitness, fast-paced game, and greater skillset should see them pull away in the last twenty to register a 10 to 15 point victory. Cheers!

*Wellington, NZ

Higher

Oh my god, the two best 10s in world rugby go head to head!!

Mouth-watering.

Swiwi

Higher wrote: »

Oh my god, the two best 10s in world rugby go head to head!!

Mouth-watering.

Cruden & Burns, can't wait.

Tox56

Say what you want about England not being a country traditionally lacking for confidence, but unlike Wales and Ireland they aren't going to have a mental block about beating the Kiwi's, even if their team isn't great

Swiwi

Tox56 wrote: »

Say what you want about England not being a country traditionally lacking for confidence, but unlike Wales and Ireland they aren't going to have a mental block about beating the Kiwi's, even if their team isn't great

True, we never underestimate them - ever.

WinnyThePoo

Could well see NZ having a 5-8 lead for the majority of the match. A late counter attack try finished by Savea to seal the match.

Great write up, it's got me going for a hopefully a stellar game.

Klunk_NZ

If a sniper takes out all the world class players England would have significant advantage.

Quint2010

Please let the AB's win. By alot.

Teferi

Hopefully the sickness in the NZ camp will slow them down.

It will be nice to cheer for England for once.

Swiwi

The first time England beat NZ, in 1936, at Twickers.

Go Obolensky, you good thing! The "Flying Prince's" 2 tries helping England to a 13-0 victory (tries only worth 3 points back then)

No "Ash Splash" permitted in those days.

CatFromHue

From Wikipedia:

"Prince Alexander Sergeevich Obolensky (Russian: Александр Сергеевич Оболенский; 17 February 1916 — 29 March 1940) was a Rurikid prince of Russian origin who became a naturalised Briton, having spent most of his life in England, and who went on to represent England in International Rugby Union."

"His selection for England caused a stir because he was not a British citizen, but he gained British Citizenship in 1936."

Caused a stir! I can only imagine the amount of dropped monocles!

Swiwi

CatFromHue wrote: »

From Wikipedia:

"Prince Alexander Sergeevich Obolensky (Russian: Александр Сергеевич Оболенский; 17 February 1916 — 29 March 1940) was a Rurikid prince of Russian origin who became a naturalised Briton, having spent most of his life in England, and who went on to represent England in International Rugby Union."

"His selection for England caused a stir because he was not a British citizen, but he gained British Citizenship in 1936."

Caused a stir! I can only imagine the amount of dropped monocles!

I think the whole Obolensky story is pretty cool, TBH, and apparently his 2 tries that day were top class. Sadly he was killed in WW2, I think.

durkadurka

This is a good read from will greenwood on how NZ play.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/newzealand/9715167/England-v-New-Zealand-The-truth-about-the-mythical-All-Blacks.html

Scioch

If England win will they rise to 4th ahead of France or is the points gap too big ?

Swiwi

durkadurka wrote: »

This is a good read from will greenwood on how NZ play.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/newzealand/9715167/England-v-New-Zealand-The-truth-about-the-mythical-All-Blacks.html

Here's a similar fact/fiction article on the English

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=10851142

Swiwi

durkadurka wrote: »

This is a good read from will greenwood on how NZ play.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/newzealand/9715167/England-v-New-Zealand-The-truth-about-the-mythical-All-Blacks.html

Some of which is fact and some fiction. I don't recall the Aussie scrum dominating NZ in the 4N...

durkadurka

Swiwi wrote: »

Here's a similar fact/fiction article on the English

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=10851142

Sorry but that is shockingly bad. A load of rubbish from decades ago.

mfceiling

Higher wrote: »

Oh my god, the two best 10s in world rugby go head to head!!

Mouth-watering.

Didn't see ROG mentioned in the preview...

Lennonist

How come Ireland rarely get to play NZ at home, if they are ever going to beat them it will most likely be in Dublin I reckon. NZ strong faves for this England game I take it.

Swiwi

Lennonist wrote: »

How come Ireland rarely get to play NZ at home, if they are ever going to beat them it will most likely be in Dublin I reckon. NZ strong faves for this England game I take it.

We are due to play you in Dublin for the 2013 AIs, I believe.

Judgement Day

I have seriously divided loyalties on this game but I have my fingers crossed that the All Blacks will blow away my national team. I might have felt differently if Jonny were togged out for England but he's not so stuff them! Anyway. at the end of the day the only team that I'm happy to see beat the ABs is Munster.

Swiwi

Judgement Day wrote: »

I have seriously divided loyalties on this game but I have my fingers crossed that the All Blacks will blow away my national team. I might have felt differently if Jonny were togged out for England but he's not so stuff them! Anyway. at the end of the day the only team that I'm happy to see beat the ABs is Munster.

You've got me confused there, Judgement Day - are you saying you're English but support Munster?!

thomond2006

Swiwi wrote: »

You've got me confused there, Judgement Day - are you saying you're English but support Munster?!

He is Wilko's number one fan.

TheGoldenAges

Lennonist wrote: »

How come Ireland rarely get to play NZ at home, if they are ever going to beat them it will most likely be in Dublin I reckon. NZ strong faves for this England game I take it.

We played them in the last AI's and in 2008, it's usually every second year but because the world cup was on...

Teferi

Swiwi wrote: »

You've got me confused there, Judgement Day - are you saying you're English but support Munster?!

I thought JD was a Leinsterman supporting Munster myself.

He's an enigma wrapped in a mystery it seems.

goreyguy

****ing english singing that **** song over the haka

darragh_haven

goreyguy wrote: »

****ing english singing that **** song over the haka

I've always thought the English supporters were class.... (please note sarcasm)
Altho I won't mind seeing NZ loose, after that, I hope NZ shove that ****ing song up the English's hole now.

CatFromHue

What song was it?

Not that it really matters as a lot of teams sing or make noise during the Haka.

Scioch

Haka is a stupid self indulgent tradition. My respect English fans has risen. Drown it out with your own chants, should be scrapped anyway.

Swiwi

Scioch wrote: »

Haka is a stupid self indulgent tradition. My respect English fans has risen. Drown it out with your own chants, should be scrapped anyway.

Not disagreeing. But I bet you wouldn't have the balls to say it to the ABs in person.

Higher

Teferi wrote: »

I thought JD was a Leinsterman supporting Munster myself.

He's an enigma wrapped in a mystery it seems.

Hes a Leinster man who supports Munster, an Irish man who supports New Zealand and a heterosexual man who loves Jonny Wilkinson.

goreyguy

Aaron Smith not looking convincing

darragh_haven

The silence that Munster greeted it with 4 or 5 years ago was the best way to "drown it out". It kinda unnerved the all blacks

Swiwi

darragh_haven wrote: »

The silence that Munster greeted it with 4 or 5 years ago was the best way to "drown it out". It kinda unnerved the all blacks

It most definitely did. And they said so afterwards.

Scioch

Swiwi wrote: »

Not disagreeing. But I bet you wouldn't have the balls to say it to the ABs in person.

I wouldn't go out of my way to be rude but if they asked me Id have no issue telling them. You call English fans eton prats to their faces ?

liammur

England doing well here so far, my favourites for the 6N next year.

Swiwi

Scioch wrote: »

I wouldn't go out of my way to be rude but if they asked me Id have no issue telling them. You call English fans eton prats to their faces ?

I'm going to leave it there, but if you think the English respect the Irish, you're kidding yourself Scioch.

Swiwi

liammur wrote: »

England doing well here so far, my favourites for the 6N next year.

Playing the exact game needed to beat NZ, fair play to them. Piri might not be too far away if Smith keeps playing like this.

CatFromHue

What was the song though?

OMC's "How Bizarre"?

Swiwi

Clancy, you twat. Since when is there a law about "jumping too early". New law for me.

shuffol

Clancy far too whistle happy for my liking.

goreyguy

dont see how any irish fan can be in favour of anything english.. their arrogance is untold.

Max Power

Swiwi wrote: »

It's why we dislike the English. Bunch of Eton prats in the stands who see themselves as still in the Rule Britania era, and all other countries as pesky colonial outposts.

You got all that from one song?

Taco Corp

CatFromHue wrote: »

What was the song though?

OMC's "How Bizarre"?

Yup, that was it

thomond2006

Is the food poisoning affecting the ABs? What's going wrong?

Scioch

Swiwi wrote: »

I'm going to leave it there, but if you think the English respect the Irish, you're kidding yourself Scioch.

Some do and some don't. But its nothing to do with this. I have no problem with English people.

JustinDee

shuffol wrote: »

Clancy far too whistle happy for my liking.

What would you prefer him to do? Turn a blind eye?
This is one mucky game and no doubt on the ground is 10 times worse. Two sets of forwards flying in off their feet, playing the ball.

goreyguy

nz playing as bad as possible while england playing as well as they could hope.

the english commentator is ridiculous. (not barnes the other guy)

Taco Corp

If you have an advantage on the opponents 22, you go for the risky play knowing full well you get a shot at goal. not a drop goal. English backs are poor to say the least.

liammur

thomond2006 wrote: »

Is the food poisoning affecting the ABs? What's going wrong?

I never give the likes of Irl/scots a chance V the ABs, but England don't have the same inferior complex. Having said that ABs +1 looks like a good bet.

JustinDee

Captain_Hindsight wrote: »

If you have an advantage on the opponents 22, you go for the risky play knowing full well you get a shot at goal. not a drop goal. English backs are poor to say the least.

If English stamina keeps up, we'll be lucky to see a try.
Flicking over to the Sevens.