Brother's Wedding

iluvcake

Hi all,

My brother and his fiancée are getting married next year, they are having a Civil Ceremony.

A few weeks ago, at a cousin's wedding, my brother's fiancée told me that my brother was going to have my mam sitting in the second row as opposed to sitting with the rest of us in the first row (not sure how this works, have never been to a Civil Ceremony).

Just to give you all some background, my parents are separated and have been with about 17 years now. They don't speak so sometimes, and in the past, it has been very awkward. Growing up my brother and mam didn't get on that well, however, I think it would only be fair that as a family my dad, myself, my sis and my mam all sit together. Just my opinion but then again it's not my say!

Another part of this story is that my dad has a partner (with about 4/5 years now I think) who will be at the wedding. Now I'm not sure what happens when it comes to partners (my mam doesn't have one) but where would she be sitting during the ceremony? I was thinking she would be sitting beside my dad but I'm not sure, is it the norm that a partner is included in the seating arrangements?

Sorry about the long post, I'm so confused and dreading this wedding as if my mam is put in a seat on her own, it won't be my brother dealing with it, it will be myself or my sister!

Your opinions/comments etc are welcome....

Mods please move if this is not the appropriate place to post..

Ella

Why dont you sit with your Mam if she's going to be sitting alone.

lazygal

When I got married people just sat where they wanted to. Had a humanist wedding and there was no need to tell people what row they were sitting in.

iluvcake

Ella wrote: »

Why dont you sit with your Mam if she's going to be sitting alone.

Thanks Ella, I had thought of that too, so it's an option:)

iluvcake

lazygal wrote: »

When I got married people just sat where they wanted to. Had a humanist wedding and there was no need to tell people what row they were sitting in.

So your family sat where they wanted. Sounds like a good idea, however I think it's already arranged that family will be sitting behind bridal party...

seamus

It's a tough one alright. I know of a guy where the father was refusing to sit at the top table if his ex-wife was going to be there. She had left him for someone else 15 years beforehand and despite that the "new" guy had since died (and so wouldn't be present), his father had never forgiven his mother.

Really this kind of thing is hard to call because it's all dependent on the dynamics of the relationships. In an ideal world he would have his mother and father in the first row (maybe at each end of the row), but if he's not that close to his mother (maybe he considers her as close as an aunt), then the second row would be fine. If he's close enough to the father's partner that he considers her family, then it would be inappropriate not to have her sitting with the rest of his family.

It might be worth pointing out the more subtle implications of such a seating arrangement. Especially in the church, seating is typically based on hierarchy. Immediately family in the front row(s). Extended family and very close friends in the next few rows, and then everyone else slots in behind that.
Putting his mother on her own in the second row, even if it's just because there aren't enough chairs in the first row, is the same as directly telling her that he doesn't consider her to be immediate family.

The best compromise would be to break it up so both rows contain immediate family and there's no obvious exclusion of your mother. But at the end of the day all you can do is suggest that to him.

mariaalice

These things can be a nightmare if you let them, I know this will sound strange but look up debrets for advice on seating at various kinds of weddings, formal informal etc.

I really do think the parents of the bride and groom should sit at the top table ( the church is different ) after the meal people can change seat and mix and mingle a bit, make sure you fathers partner is siting with family members she is comfortable with even if its nieces and nephews someone who has a knack of making people feel comfortable.

I have remarried and the only family situation we have had to face so far was our daughters debs, when it was my youngest daughters debs my now husband took some photos, but then bowed out of it and let me and my ex husband hosted a little party for her in my ex husbands house. It was a different story at my eldest daughters debs.

iluvcake

It really is complicated but I'm trying not to overthink things as this isn't my wedding so I don't wanna be telling people what to do etc!

Another one of my cousins is getting married next year, her husband to be, his mam passed away & his dad has a new partner and he has told his dad plus my cousin's family that he does not want his dad's partner at the top table. They have been seeing each other a few years, but that's his choice.

I suppose every situation is different. Thanks for replies, was hoping to hear from somebody that might have been in a situation like this or something similar?

mariaalice

You are never going to keep every one happy so there is no point in trying to, as you seem to have been left to sort this out ( not the first time a sister has been left to sort out that kind of situation ) you need to talk to you brother and tell him its impossible to keep every one happy and ask him and his fiancé what do they want to do and stick to there wishes and if any one say anything tell them its what he wanted, tell you brother not to let this spoil the wedding he will regret it for the rest of his life.

Remember also this is going to be the first of many family occasion where this will be an issue, other siblings wedding, christening, etc, so if its sorted now it wont spoil other occasions, also what does you mother want.

iluvcake

mariaalice wrote: »

You are never going to keep every one happy so there is no point in trying to, as you seem to have been left to sort this out ( not the first time a sister has been left to sort out that kind of situation ) you need to talk to you brother and tell him its impossible to keep every one happy and ask him and his fiancé what do they want to do and stick to there wishes and if any one say anything tell them its what he wanted, tell you brother not to let this spoil the wedding he will regret it for the rest of his life.

Remember also this is going to be the first of many family occasion where this will be an issue, other siblings wedding, christening, etc, so if its sorted now it wont spoil other occasions, also what dose you mother want.

Oh believe me, I wish my brother's fiancée hadn't told me but she's hoping that I can talk to him so he doesn't know that I know! I did tell my younger sister so we're subtly going to bring up the conversation over Xmas when we're all together.
I was just hoping that we could have a peaceful day without anything kicking off. My mother doesn't know yet about this as it's 10 months until the wedding so I'm sure a lot will happen between now and then. I don't want to see my mam upset, however, if that's their choice then there isn't anything much I can do about it.

I totally understand that this is what it's going to be like for every family occasion. My brother is the first in the family to get married so I'm sure we'll be learning from this experience about future family occasions!

liliq

I had a similar situation at my wedding a couple of weeks ago. My mam and dad separated around 15 years ago, both have partners now. Mam and dad get on, but my dads partner was a 'catalyst' for the separation so my mam can't abide her.
For our civil ceremony everyone sat wherever they wanted. Both parents walked down the aisle with me and then sat separately which worked fine.
The ceremony is really short so it's not going to be all the noticeable. People won't have time to look around and see where everyone is really.
Because of the whole situation we didn't have a traditional top table either- the top table was best man and his partner, maid of honour and her partner (they were the only groomsman, bridesmaid), my husband, myself and our son.
We gave my mam a table, my dad a table and my in laws a table and had those three tables surrounding our top table and let them choose who of the guests they wanted to have the meal with...
The joys of modern families

iluvcake

liliq wrote: »

I had a similar situation at my wedding a couple of weeks ago. My mam and dad separated around 15 years ago, both have partners now. Mam and dad get on, but my dads partner was a 'catalyst' for the separation so my mam can't abide her.
For our civil ceremony everyone sat wherever they wanted. Both parents walked down the aisle with me and then sat separately which worked fine.
The ceremony is really short so it's not going to be all the noticeable. People won't have time to look around and see where everyone is really.
Because of the whole situation we didn't have a traditional top table either- the top table was best man and his partner, maid of honour and her partner (they were the only groomsman, bridesmaid), my husband, myself and our son.
We gave my mam a table, my dad a table and my in laws a table and had those three tables surrounding our top table and let them choose who of the guests they wanted to have the meal with...
The joys of modern families

Thanks for your response liliq. Sounds very similar to my predicament and sounds like it worked out ok for you and your hubby.
I actually think that was a good idea giving your parents a table each and letting them choose who they could sit with. I think that would help our situation, that's a very good idea, thanks for that!

Beruthiel

Have either of the parents been asked what they would prefer?
That would be the best way to start imo.

iluvcake

Beruthiel wrote: »

Have either of the parents been asked what they would prefer?
That would be the best way to start imo.

Actually, they haven't. Good point. Although, not sure will they be asked as opposed to being told. But it will be something I will be suggesting.

westies4ever

weddings really do cause so much fuss and hurt and arguments.

my step daughter got married this year. my husband sat beside his ex wife in the church and I sat behind them with his family. they also both sat at the top table though my husband with the grooms mother and vice versa.

I sat at a normal table with members of my husbands family. we felt it was the best thing to do for the day to go smoothly. but it was as if i didnt exist - i wasnt asked to do a prayer or reading and i didnt get a mention or thank you in any speeches.

while it did go smoothly i did feel very excluded. i've done a lot for his kids over the past 15 years and i contributed a lot of time and money to the wedding (€6k between me and my husband) - no holidays for two years, going without luxuries to save for it etc.

my husbands ex wife can be difficult so i'm glad I supported him as it meant a lot for him for the day to go well and i know he'll make it up to me but it was a very very difficult day.

iluvcake

westies4ever wrote: »

weddings really do cause so much fuss and hurt and arguments.

my step daughter got married this year. my husband sat beside his ex wife in the church and I sat behind them with his family. they also both sat at the top table though my husband with the grooms mother and vice versa.

I sat at a normal table with members of my husbands family. we felt it was the best thing to do for the day to go smoothly. but it was as if i didnt exist - i wasnt asked to do a prayer or reading and i didnt get a mention or thank you in any speeches.

while it did go smoothly i did feel very excluded. i've done a lot for his kids over the past 15 years and i contributed a lot of time and money to the wedding (€6k between me and my husband) - no holidays for two years, going without luxuries to save for it etc.

my husbands ex wife can be difficult so i'm glad I supported him as it meant a lot for him for the day to go well and i know he'll make it up to me but it was a very very difficult day.

Thanks for your reply westies4ever.

I'm sorry you felt excluded at the wedding of your step daughter. You really did go above and beyond for your family and your husband's ex wife so that the day would run smoothly.

It's for reasons like this that I am posting and hoping to get some opinions and comments. I would never want my mam excluded, however, in saying that, it's not fair on my dad if his partner feels excluded.

It must have been hard for you to be sitting with the family but not at the top table. Were you asked if you would be comfortable sitting here and also at the church, sitting behind your husband and his ex wife?

westies4ever

iluvcake wrote: »

Thanks for your reply westies4ever.

I'm sorry you felt excluded at the wedding of your step daughter. You really did go above and beyond for your family and your husband's ex wife so that the day would run smoothly.

It's for reasons like this that I am posting and hoping to get some opinions and comments. I would never want my mam excluded, however, in saying that, it's not fair on my dad if his partner feels excluded.

It must have been hard for you to be sitting with the family but not at the top table. Were you asked if you would be comfortable sitting here and also at the church, sitting behind your husband and his ex wife?

No, the bride and groom didnt ask me, although to be fair they came to me later in the reception and privately thanked me. They said that it was awkward for them and they didnt want to upset anyone.

My husband asked me before the wedding what I thought was best and it was me who came up with the arrangment. I just didnt think it would hurt as much as it did on the day! He and his ex wife are amicable (just) though they rarely see one another now that the children are grown.

Being honest though, my husbands ex wife currently has no partner and I really didnt want to make life difficult on her daughter wedding day. It was more her day than mine. I'm fine about it all really and thankfully its not something I'll have to repeat.

I know your situation is a bit different but it sounds sad that your mum could be hurt. She might even say (like me) that shes fine but be crushed behind it all. Its a pity it couldnt be arranged the way we did it. Its only a day and I survived!

Just another thought - while my husband and his ex sat together in the church and they were both at the top table, they really didnt have to talk all that much or spend much time together.

and another thing - whats going to happen for photos? My step daughters photos are all as normal including the family pics with my husband and his ex and then i was invited in for two of them.

iluvcake

westies4ever wrote: »

No, the bride and groom didnt ask me, although to be fair they came to me later in the reception and privately thanked me. They said that it was awkward for them and they didnt want to upset anyone.

My husband asked me before the wedding what I thought was best and it was me who came up with the arrangment. I just didnt think it would hurt as much as it did on the day! He and his ex wife are amicable (just) though they rarely see one another now that the children are grown.

Being honest though, my husbands ex wife currently has no partner and I really didnt want to make life difficult on her daughter wedding day. It was more her day than mine. I'm fine about it all really and thankfully its not something I'll have to repeat.

I know your situation is a bit different but it sounds sad that your mum could be hurt. She might even say (like me) that shes fine but be crushed behind it all. Its a pity it couldnt be arranged the way we did it. Its only a day and I survived!

Just another thought - while my husband and his ex sat together in the church and they were both at the top table, they really didnt have to talk all that much or spend much time togter.

and another thing - whats going to happen for photos? My step daughters photos are all as normal including the family pics with my husband and his ex and then i was invited in for two of them.

I suppose my dad's partner and my mam haven't been asked/told yet about the arrangement. It is still a few months off but as usual I'm always the one trying to keep the peace!

You were so gracious in your actions taking your hubby's ex wife's feelings into consideration considering you have been around 15 years in your step kids lives, i'd imagine some other person would want to be included a lot more than you were, but then again, that's where things get awkward.

I'm not sure yet how much involved in the wedding my dad's partner will be, she wasn't around us growing up and we only see her from time to time so I'm sure she will be included in photos. It would be nice to take photos as you did above.

westies4ever

iluvcake wrote: »

I suppose my dad's partner and my mam haven't been asked/told yet about the arrangement. It is still a few months off but as usual I'm always the one trying to keep the peace!

You were so gracious in your actions taking your hubby's ex wife's feelings into consideration considering you have been around 15 years in your step kids lives, i'd imagine some other person would want to be included a lot more than you were, but then again, that's where things get awkward.

I'm not sure yet how much involved in the wedding my dad's partner will be, she wasn't around us growing up and we only see her from time to time so I'm sure she will be included in photos. It would be nice to take photos as you did above.

you're very good to be thinking of everyone. i dont think anyone was considering my feelings except my husband. if your dads partner hasnt played a major part in family life then it would be awful if your mum was singled out like that.

could you suggest something like what we did? i should probably also point out that im close with my husbands family so they really did look after me on the day and made sure I wasnt left like a norman no mates. is your dads partner close to anyone in his family that they could sit with?

i think i just had to tell myself that it was my step daughters day and that any aggro was an absolute no no as it would be remembered. i put up with a few snide comments from my husbands ex and her sister but i just smiled and walked away. i was very careful to keep a low profile all day, not drink too much and not get involved in anything. i was wrecked for about a month afterwards - god the concentration it took for the full day!

iluvcake

westies4ever wrote: »

you're very good to be thinking of everyone. i dont think anyone was considering my feelings except my husband. if your dads partner hasnt played a major part in family life then it would be awful if your mum was singled out like that.

could you suggest something like what we did? i should probably also point out that im close with my husbands family so they really did look after me on the day and made sure I wasnt left like a norman no mates. is your dads partner close to anyone in his family that they could sit with?

i think i just had to tell myself that it was my step daughters day and that any aggro was an absolute no no as it would be remembered. i put up with a few snide comments from my husbands ex and her sister but i just smiled and walked away. i was very careful to keep a low profile all day, not drink too much and not get involved in anything. i was wrecked for about a month afterwards - god the concentration it took for the full day!

I suppose, even though it's not my wedding, I would hope to keep the peace as much as possible. My brother and fiancée will be doing thier own thing on the day so I'm kinda hoping to play referee, in a way!!!

Everyone knows that our parents are separated so I don't want people to be making comments if someone is excluded, i.e. my mam's sister in law is very vocal about their separation (it's in the past, get over it!) and would be commenting for months after the wedding if my mam was excluded in any way.

My dad's partner isn't close really to any of us I'm afraid, although it would be easier if I suggested something like your situation but then as suggested in another post, have different tables at the reception area for each parent and their sibling and family! I've actually my head wrecked before it's even started!

westies4ever

iluvcake wrote: »

I suppose, even though it's not my wedding, I would hope to keep the peace as much as possible. My brother and fiancée will be doing thier own thing on the day so I'm kinda hoping to play referee, in a way!!!

Everyone knows that our parents are separated so I don't want people to be making comments if someone is excluded, i.e. my mam's sister in law is very vocal about their separation (it's in the past, get over it!) and would be commenting for months after the wedding if my mam was excluded in any way.

My dad's partner isn't close really to any of us I'm afraid, although it would be easier if I suggested something like your situation but then as suggested in another post, have different tables at the reception area for each parent and their sibling and family! I've actually my head wrecked before it's even started!

Its so hard and i really feel for you. its really going to be up one of them to swallow their feelings for the sake of the day and just get on with it.

i know that if i hadnt done what i did there would have been massive problems as my husbands ex wouldnt have accomodated my feelings in anyway. she even wanted to sit beside him for the meal - he vetoed that mind you as he said it would have to be traditional with her beside the grooms father and him beside the grooms mother. the only reason she wanted to do that was to wreck my head.

dont wreck your head as theres really nothing you can do, just mind your mum and sit with her if needbe. have a chat with your brother and see if you can come up with something that'll minimise the problems. good luck!

iluvcake

westies4ever wrote: »

Its so hard and i really feel for you. its really going to be up one of them to swallow their feelings for the sake of the day and just get on with it.

i know that if i hadnt done what i did there would have been massive problems as my husbands ex wouldnt have accomodated my feelings in anyway. she even wanted to sit beside him for the meal - he vetoed that mind you as he said it would have to be traditional with her beside the grooms father and him beside the grooms mother. the only reason she wanted to do that was to wreck my head.

dont wreck your head as theres really nothing you can do, just mind your mum and sit with her if needbe. have a chat with your brother and see if you can come up with something that'll minimise the problems. good luck!

Thanks for your replies westies4ever.

Hopefully everything will go ok and I will be wondering what I was worrying about!

I will definitely have a chat with my brother, it's his day so hopefully he'll want as less hassle as the rest of us do!

cookiecakes

Is your brother not having your mum in the front row because of your dad or because he doesn't feel that close to her? If it's the former, it would probably be better to speak to your parents privately and ask if they can put their feelings aside for one day. I was at a wedding earlier this year where the parents did just that for the sake of their daughter.

If it's the latter, then it's probably at your brother's discretion. While it may be hurtful to your mum, he may just feel she's not as big a part of his life as the rest of you. I don't really know what you can do if it's just his personal preference. That sounds harsh but it is his day and if their relationship has been fractious in the past, he may just feel he wants to limit her involvement.

iluvcake

cookiecakes wrote: »

Is your brother not having your mum in the front row because of your dad or because he doesn't feel that close to her? If it's the former, it would probably be better to speak to your parents privately and ask if they can put their feelings aside for one day. I was at a wedding earlier this year where the parents did just that for the sake of their daughter.

If it's the latter, then it's probably at your brother's discretion. While it may be hurtful to your mum, he may just feel she's not as big a part of his life as the rest of you. I don't really know what you can do if it's just his personal preference. That sounds harsh but it is his day and if their relationship has been fractious in the past, he may just feel he wants to limit her involvement.

To be honest cookiecakes, his fiancée never actually said why he didn't want her in the front row, I just assumed it's because of the past and things haven't always been easy between them. They have improved as we got older. If it's because of friction between my parents, I would hope that my parents would both make the effort for the day that's in it.

Not harsh at all to be fair, you are being honest which is what I was looking for. Ultimately, it is his decision at the end of the day and I really don't want to come across like I'm trying to control things! I've just always tried to keep the peace and sometimes it's hard to keep everyone happy so I suppose what I'm trying to say is, I would like him to see it from her point of view but also, I will respect his decision as he has his reasons for it.

mariaalice

westies4ever wrote: »

weddings really do cause so much fuss and hurt and arguments.

my step daughter got married this year. my husband sat beside his ex wife in the church and I sat behind them with his family. they also both sat at the top table though my husband with the grooms mother and vice versa.

I sat at a normal table with members of my husbands family. we felt it was the best thing to do for the day to go smoothly. but it was as if i didnt exist - i wasnt asked to do a prayer or reading and i didnt get a mention or thank you in any speeches.

while it did go smoothly i did feel very excluded. i've done a lot for his kids over the past 15 years and i contributed a lot of time and money to the wedding (€6k between me and my husband) - no holidays for two years, going without luxuries to save for it etc.

my husbands ex wife can be difficult so i'm glad I supported him as it meant a lot for him for the day to go well and i know he'll make it up to me but it was a very very difficult day.

While being asked to do a prayer or a reading might have been asking too much you should have been thanked and mentioned in the speeches especially as you were a big part of your step daughters life.

westies4ever

mariaalice wrote: »

While being asked to do a prayer or a reading might have been asking too much you should have been thanked and mentioned in the speeches especially as you were a big part of your step daughters life.

thanks - they did thank me privately and i know they were terrified of upsetting my husbands ex. and if they had upset her, they'd hear about it for a very very long time! i completely understand why they didnt thank me publicly and i hold no grudges - it was easier to upset me than her and thats the bottom line.

if i'd been in their shoes i dont know what i would have done. well actually i do - me and hubbie eloped to vegas to get married as we couldnt be bothered with any hassle lol!