Is 29k a year really poverty?

Tiddlypeeps

A lady on RTE a few minutes ago was talking about how hard done by she feels because she got a mortgage a few years ago when she was expecting a pay rise. The recession hit so she never got the pay rise she was expecting. She now has to work in a bar at the weekend to survive.

Seems like a common story. A tad nieve to get a mortgage based on a possible future raise but I think lots of people are in a similar situation so I'm not judging.

What baffles me is how she is living such a life of poverty. She disclosed that she has a public sector job earning 29k a year (450 per week after tax) and her mortgage is 650 per month. That's just for her day job, not including the bar work. WTF!

Pretty sure she was single because of the of the level of tax she was paying, or at the very least if a partner exists he is not unemployed. She never mentioned kids. Could be wrong on both counts, either way it doesn't make the numbers less crazy.

She kept harping on about how it was her mortgage that was crippling her so it didn't seem like she had any other huge debts hanging over her that could explain why she felt so financially crippled.

The documentary show was playing up to it aswel, they were using her as an example of how bad it's gotten.

I can't actually make any sense of that. I don't think 29k a year is a lavish wage or makes her in anyway wealthy but I would never have considered that to be in second job territory. Have I just totally lost touch with reality or is this as insane as I think it is?

LivelineDipso

She disclosed that she has a public sector job

as opposed to a ex-private sector job...




Considering how lucky they are, Public Sector Workers in this country make me want to vomit sometimes.

RMD

There's clearly more to this story than meets the eye, either she's living beyond her means or not mentioning other debts (car loan, healthcare etc). If she's earning 450 a week after tax and only paying 650 in mortgage that means she still has roughly 290 quid a week in disposable income. It's not lavish by any measure but it's not even close to 2nd job territory just to make ends meet.

Cookie_Monster

well it's poverty in the sense that she probably includes sky, broadband, going out two nights a week and makeup as essential expenditure.
ie not at all

smcgiff

It's also scary how many people think if they move up onto the higher tax bracket they can come out with less money overall. I think she was suggesting as such and she wouldn't be alone.

bootybouncer

Sitting on her hole all day in her cushy public service job, posting on boards and facebook, no wonder she could double job

enviro

No, 29k a year is not poverty... her outgoings have reduced her disposable income to a level she isn't happy with... big difference.

Tiddlypeeps

LivelineDipso wrote: »

as opposed to a ex-private sector job...




Considering how lucky they are, Public Sector Workers in this country make me want to vomit sometimes.

The only reason I mentioned the public service bit is because it answer questions about job security so she isn't likely to be in a place where she is saving like mad because she fears unemployment. Otherwise I think it's irrelevant.

Not looking to start a public service bashing.

Mint Sauce

So to confirm, a third of her monthly rent goes on her mortgage. She must be spending an obscene amount on everything else if she is in poverty.

Lando Griffin

Some pay more in rent than her mortgage and others get that paid for by the gubberment too.

Pilotdude5

My parents are constantly complaining about having no money these days. Its their own fault for moving house in 2004 with a new mortgage. After my dads done complaining he heads to the golf course. Gets a good 5 rounds a week in these days. No sympathy for them.

If you're struggling on 29k a year you can always sell the Steinway in your piano room.

Celly Smunt

The poverty line is,if an unexpected or necessary expense comes and you can't afford it.By that i mean an expense such as new shoes for the kids or an increase in heating/food prices.

not being unable to pay for the broadband or sky.

Gileadi

Giving out that her tax was doubled! She showed pay slips that her tax went from 20 to 40 quid...

sparkydee

irish-stew wrote: »

So to confirm, a third of her monthly rent goes on her mortgage. She must be spending an obscene amount on everything else if she is in poverty.

Hardly if you add up all the other bills such as gas, esb, petrol etc. It does all add up fairly quickly. I don't see why she would need a second job though it is manageable .

LivelineDipso

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

Not looking to start a public service bashing.

She has the mentality of typical Partnership type.

mikemac1

Keeping a car on the road would cripple you these days

minidazzler

bootybouncer wrote: »

Sitting on her hole all day in her cushy public service job, posting on boards and facebook, no wonder she could double job

And your basis for believing this?

When she says it's the mortgage crippling her I'd guess it's actually her lifestyle. The Clothes she "has" to have. She has a lot more disposable income than most people.

Spiritual

I'd love a 29k a year job.

What would I have to do for it?

:pac:

Lando Griffin

sparkydee wrote: »

Hardly if you add up all the other bills such as gas, esb, petrol etc. It does all add up fairly quickly. I don't see why she would need a second job though it is manageable .

She does have 4 clocks on her wall.
Each one the same.
Telling the same time.

kaimera

a mortgage for 650pm on 29k?

where? sign me up please.

T&Cs apply.

Celly Smunt

Gileadi wrote: »

Giving out that her tax was doubled! She showed pay slips that her tax went from 20 to 40 quid...

I get tired of this argument as well,tax has not been increased by 50% of the old levels.The cost of living has come down in general also,so it in fact evens out to a certain degree.What you get charged on tax you receive at least a third back on reductions across the board in terms of food bills etc.

Rigol

Maybe she should stretch her mortgage out by a few years. Im sure the bank will be accommodating, and her only reason to whige will be that she won't be an owner for a little while longer.

Lumbo

I watched this program. Did she ever use the word poverty? I'm pretty sure she didn't and she just said that despite working two jobs, she was finding it difficult to pay her bills.

newbie2

650 quid per month mortgage? I'm not sure that's correct - is it?

Edit~:
That's 7.8 k per year. Actually a mortgage of 195000 over 25 years would do it.

Celly Smunt

Lumbo wrote: »

I watched this program. Did she ever use the word poverty? I'm pretty sure she didn't and she just said that despite working two jobs, she was finding it difficult to pay her bills.

I'd like to see what her bills were.I imagine they'd be broken down as UPC,Sky,art club for the little one,gym membership,littlewoods etc etc etc

RADIUS

This woman needs to spend a year in Ukraine working 40 hours for 40 euro a week.
She will never ever complain about Ireland again.

Spiritual

Her take home is €1800 a month, her mortgage is just over a third of that.
If my maths are right the answer should be..................she can fúck right off with her poverty talk.

anhedonia

surely broadband is an essential basic requirement these days, along with food and heating.

I couldnt live without it.

Celly Smunt

anhedonia wrote: »

surely broadband is an essential basic requirement these days, along with food and heating.

I couldnt live without it.

join a library.

Spiritual

pmcmahon wrote: »

join a library.

They won't let you **** in the library.

enviro

Relative poverty is set at 60% of the median household income. She may be close to that... anyone care to work it out?

troops

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

What baffles me is how she is living such a life of poverty. She disclosed that she has a public sector job earning 29k a year (450 per week after tax) and her mortgage is 650 per month. That's just for her day job, not including the bar work. WTF!

450 can't be correct..29K is about 550 a week gross. deduct 15% public sector pension contribution and she's nearly at 450 before even paying tax, usc, prsi etc..

AlmightyCushion

anhedonia wrote: »

surely broadband is an essential basic requirement these days, along with food and heating.

I couldnt live without it.

Deaths from internet deficiency have increased massively since the recession started. It truly is heart breaking.

Celly Smunt

Spiritual wrote: »

They won't let you **** in the library.

course they will,why do you think the books are made of paper?

Anyone

Lumbo wrote: »

I watched this program. Did she ever use the word poverty? I'm pretty sure she didn't and she just said that despite working two jobs, she was finding it difficult to pay her bills.

Sounds a bit more truthfull than the OP's spin.

Also, 650 p/m....if she bought a few years ago then that could be interest only and not able to meet her mortgage repayments.

Spiritual

troops wrote: »

450 can't be correct..29K is about 550 a week gross. deduct 15% public sector pension contribution and she's nearly at 450 before even paying tax, usc, prsi etc..

Oh the humanity....

tayto lover

RMD wrote: »

There's clearly more to this story than meets the eye, either she's living beyond her means or not mentioning other debts (car loan, healthcare etc). If she's earning 450 a week after tax and only paying 650 in mortgage that means she still has roughly 290 quid a week in disposable income. It's not lavish by any measure but it's not even close to 2nd job territory just to make ends meet.

Her cheque showed a take home amount of 396 euro.

RMD

anhedonia wrote: »

surely broadband is an essential basic requirement these days, along with food and heating.

I couldnt live without it.

Broadband is cheap if done right. Take UPC for example, 70 quid a month you get broadband, digital tv and landline sorted. Not a big expense considering it covers all 3.

mud

Did she mention if she was in any debt apart from her mortgage?

troops

tayto lover wrote: »

Her cheque showed a take home amount of 396 euro.

it's sh*t enuff money in fairness whatever way ye spin it. someone on the dole getting rent allowance and a medical card is as well off

Tiddlypeeps

tayto lover wrote: »

Her cheque showed a take home amount of 396 euro.

Could have sworn I saw 450 on the pay slip she pulled out. I could easily be mistaken. That's still 240 a week after her mortgage.

She may not have used the term poverty but she did make herself out to be very hard done by.

Rodin

enviro wrote: »

Relative poverty is set at 60% of the median household income. She may be close to that... anyone care to work it out?

By that definition, it is impossible to eradicate poverty in that system.

GetWithIt

troops wrote: »

450 can't be correct..29K is about 550 a week gross. deduct 15% public sector pension contribution and she's nearly at 450 before even paying tax, usc, prsi etc..

29K was the after tax number. It was 32k'ish before.

Or at least that was my recollection.

Rodin

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

Could have sworn I saw 450 on the pay slip she pulled out. I could easily be mistaken. That's still 240 a week after her mortgage.

She may not have used the term poverty but she did make herself out to be very hard done by.

Yeah she did. She appears to have her own home all to herself!!!

She's definitely not hard done by.

And her mortgage being 30% of her net income is just irresponsible.

tayto lover

troops wrote: »

it's sh*t enuff money in fairness whatever way ye spin it. someone on the dole getting rent allowance and a medical card is as well off

The other woman on the programme was taking home 2 k a month and had childcare bills of 2 k per month. Madness. She would be better off staying at home minding her own kids.

Vizzy

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

Could have sworn I saw 450 on the pay slip she pulled out. I could easily be mistaken. That's still 240 a week after her mortgage.

She may not have used the term poverty but she did make herself out to be very hard done by.

Right,so she is single and getting €240 nett a week after the mortgage is paid.On her income she won't qualify for medical card,FIS etc.
And someone on social welfare will get all these on top of €188 p/week.

Rodin

Vizzy wrote: »

Right,so she is single and getting €240 nett a week after the mortgage is paid.On her income she won't qualify for medical card,FIS etc.
And someone on social welfare will get all these on top of €188 p/week.

And this is why social welfare is too generous. Particularly when compared to the UK.

This country must reduce it's costs.

GetWithIt

smcgiff wrote: »

It's also scary how many people think if they move up onto the higher tax bracket they can come out with less money overall. I think she was suggesting as such and she wouldn't be alone.

It was an odd comment. Something like "I can't work anymore hours as I'd then be in the higher tax bracket and couldn't afford that".

I have known people to say it wouldn't be worth their while to work extra hours as they'd be taxed at the higher rate but never heard anyone say they couldn't afford to earn more.

It was a good thing she didn't get that pay rise she had originally thought she was going to get. Sure she'd be bankrupt twice over by now.

GetWithIt

tayto lover wrote: »

The other woman on the programme was taking home 2 k a month and had childcare bills of 2 k per month. Madness. She would be better off staying at home minding her own kids.

Another crazy situation, and one of herself and the husband was a financial advisor.

kippy

Does anyone know what the true figure was?
29K Gross public sector wage = roughly 22498 Net.
http://taxcalc.eu/
Without knowing how much her other expenses are and what they are it's pretty hard to determine how much actual disposable income she has.

Tiddlypeeps

Vizzy wrote: »

Right,so she is single and getting €240 nett a week after the mortgage is paid.On her income she won't qualify for medical card,FIS etc.
And someone on social welfare will get all these on top of €188 p/week.

A single person will very rarely get a medical card unless they are absolutely crippled with debt, and even the it's unlikely. Same with rent allowance. Being on the dole doesn't automatically qualify you for them, they are means tested on a case by case basis.