Dexter Season 7 Ep 9 - Helter Skelter (spoilers)

Risteard

People's verdict on this episode?


Thought it was great myself and am really liking this series so far, particularly as we're not so sure how it's going to end up. I was full sure that Isaac was going to be the main villain this season and 'go the distance.'

Unusual that a new bad guy being introduced with only a few episodes left but I suppose this will tie in with the last episode's title and perhaps may be a fall guy?

Was also certain that Hannah was a goner.

On a side note, will be interesting to see what happens with Quinn. I doubt he'll be let away with that.

don ramo

WTF killing off isaac after all that, its bloody ridiculous ending his storyline with 3 episodes to go, i know they came to the end of his storyline, but surely they could have given him a better sendoff, maybe on a cold slab,

also it seemed kind of odd how calm deb was when she found hanna, alive, i thought she was dead the way she reacted, but then she phoned for the ambulance, that scene was played out a bit weird, and it looked like hanna is feeling a little uncomfortable with how clingy dexter has gotten with her, somehow i can see her dosing dexters morning fry by seasons end

also i still dont get what it is that laguerta has that shes so adamant that dexter is the bay harbor butcher,

Hurricane Carter

don ramo wrote: »

WTF killing off isaac after all that, its bloody ridiculous ending his storyline with 3 episodes to go, i know they came to the end of his storyline, but surely they could have given him a better sendoff, maybe on a cold slab,

also it seemed kind of odd how calm deb was when she found hanna, alive, i thought she was dead the way she reacted, but then she phoned for the ambulance, that scene was played out a bit weird, and it looked like hanna is feeling a little uncomfortable with how clingy dexter has gotten with her, somehow i can see her dosing dexters morning fry by seasons end

also i still dont get what it is that laguerta has that shes so adamant that dexter is the bay harbor butcher,

It wouldn't have made sense to for Dexter to (ritually) kill Isaac after what they'd been through. Despite everything, there was a mutual respect there. It was a brilliantly written arc and I think it ended really well. Dexter wrapping him in plastic would've rendered all their dialogue in the last few episodes pointless.

Deb was obviously having thoughts of 'will I or won't I' (call the ambulance straight away). It's no surprise given how she feels about her and believing she deserves to die for her crimes.

The La Guerta thing - has more to do with the fact she always believed Doakes was innocent. There was never any doubt there.

It's not hard to see why she'd think of Dexter - moving his boat at the time of the investigation into the Bay Harbour Butcher, believing Doakes' innocence from the time the theory of him being the BHB came to fruition, the fact that the killer is obviously methodical and meticulous - something Dexter always conveys and much unlike your run of the mill detective, the fact that the missing criminals are ones previously investigated by the homicide department. I wonder how many people working homicide have boats? My guess is not many. Finally, Doakes never owned a boat.

Seriously, I wonder do the people give the show their full attention when watching instead of basing opinions on the latest episode.

Paully D

A return to top form this week IMO, excellent episode.

gnfnrhead

I Am Kong! wrote: »

It's not hard to see why she'd think of Dexter - moving his boat at the time of the investigation into the Bay Harbour Butcher, believing Doakes' innocence from the time the theory of him being the BHB came to fruition, the fact that the killer is obviously methodical and meticulous - something Dexter always conveys and much unlike your run of the mill detective, the fact that the missing criminals are ones previously investigated by the homicide department. I wonder how many people working homicide have boats? My guess is not many. Finally, Doakes never owned a boat.

All that may be true, but what gave her the idea that it was Dexter? There were a decent amount of names ticked on that sheet but she seems to have decided on Dexter. Why? Because he moved his boat? That seems to be all she has, anything else could be applied to anyone.

Hande hoche!

Glad to see Mathews back again. Seems a bit odd to suddenly drop in an arsonist killer.

TheStook

Excellent episode, I love the way they ended the whole Isaac thing. I knew neither of them were gonna live and it was an excellent ending to a very mutual relationship.

I'm not sure what to make of the sudden emergence of this "Phantom" killer, there's 3 episodes left in the season, seems very odd. I'm gonna guess that it'll run into the final season, I hope so anyway because he does seem pretty cool. I doubt its that guy who investigated the two burnings, but they definitely want is to think that.

The whole La Guerta thing isn't as tense as it could be in my opinion, If it was last season it would be completely different because too many people have found out about Dexters dark passenger this season it just takes away the shock value.

One of the best episodes in a goo while, a lot of action.

Quinns a goner, although I never really took to him. They still havent given his backstory either as far as I can remember

gnfnrhead

Seen a theory elsewhere saying the arsonist could be

Doakes, who didnt actually die and has simply been in hiding before he returns with a vengeance. I can't remember that far back, but I think he was in a building that was blown up? I assume a body wasnt found, or at least not one that could be identified as Doakes. Wouldnt be beyond the realms of possibility and would fit in with the title of the final episode. If it is to be Doakes, he'll have to be back at the end of episode 11 to avoid the title at the start of the showing spoiling it for anyone who hasnt already seen it. Saying that, I dont think that will happen.

gnfnrhead

gnfnrhead wrote: »

Seen a theory elsewhere saying the arsonist could be

Doakes, who didnt actually die and has simply been in hiding before he returns with a vengeance. I can't remember that far back, but I think he was in a building that was blown up? I assume a body wasnt found, or at least not one that could be identified as Doakes. Wouldnt be beyond the realms of possibility and would fit in with the title of the final episode. If it is to be Doakes, he'll have to be back at the end of episode 11 to avoid the title at the start of the showing spoiling it for anyone who hasnt already seen it. Saying that, I dont think that will happen.

That's the maddest theory I ever read :pac:

I thought Yurg and Hanna were both going to die, leaving nothing for each man to live for. Isaac's only friend and Dexter's partner.

Really enjoyable episode.

jd007

gnfnrhead wrote: »

Seen a theory elsewhere saying the arsonist could be

Doakes, who didnt actually die and has simply been in hiding before he returns with a vengeance. I can't remember that far back, but I think he was in a building that was blown up? I assume a body wasnt found, or at least not one that could be identified as Doakes. Wouldnt be beyond the realms of possibility and would fit in with the title of the final episode. If it is to be Doakes, he'll have to be back at the end of episode 11 to avoid the title at the start of the showing spoiling it for anyone who hasnt already seen it. Saying that, I dont think that will happen.

I went back and watched Season 2 recently. Pretty sure they confirmed the body in the shack was Doakes' with dental records. Would love to see him back though.

Enjoyed this episode, sad to see Isaac gone though, he was a great character.

Andy!!

gnfnrhead wrote: »

All that may be true, but what gave her the idea that it was Dexter? There were a decent amount of names ticked on that sheet but she seems to have decided on Dexter. Why? Because he moved his boat? That seems to be all she has, anything else could be applied to anyone.

Lundy hypothesised that the BHB was a member of law inforcement.

Andy!!

gnfnrhead wrote: »

All that may be true, but what gave her the idea that it was Dexter? There were a decent amount of names ticked on that sheet but she seems to have decided on Dexter. Why? Because he moved his boat? That seems to be all she has, anything else could be applied to anyone.

Lundy hypothesised that the BHB was a member of law inforcement.

Lovely Bloke

Cracking episode.

It felt like a wrapping up, until Hannah was confirmed alive.

If Doakes was to come back that would be all kinds of awesome.

I think the "Surprise Muthafúcka" will be LaGuerta sussing Dex, and him killing her. Maybe with the help of Deb, her and Maria never got on

Jax Teller

Loved Deb saying "Fcuk" when she found Hannah with a pulse as if she hoped she was dead . Well that's how i took it up .

Good episode even though i didn't like killing off Isaac with 3 episodes to go .

the_monkey

Is this the same Isaac who had that conversation with Dexter in jail ??

this episode was random and all over the place ... introducing a new bad guy,
with 3 eps left - who is the arson police inspector - convenient that he'll take the fall for Dexter ..

jester77

Good episode but I'm not a fan of these recent killings, they are very un-Dexter for want of a better word.

The killing of the hitman at the shooting range and the slitting the throat of the other hitman in Isaacs apartment is not something Dexter would do. I find that the storyline is getting very messy now.

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

connollys

The killings are getting ridiculous, middle of the day in public places. Still not as bad as the airport kill but the gun range? A joke. Same with the shooting on the boat, similar to Lewis earlier in the season.

MOH

jd007 wrote: »

I went back and watched Season 2 recently.

Pretty sure they confirmed the body in the shack was Doakes' with dental records. Would love to see him back though.

Enjoyed this episode, sad to see Isaac gone though, he was a great character.

Not much point people putting stuff in spoiler tags if the next reply to it gives away what it was.

MOH

MOH wrote: »

Not much point people putting stuff in spoiler tags if the next reply to it gives away what it was.

Ah yes, the ever present mind reader who knows what the next poster will say :pac:

SirLemonhead

jd007 wrote: »

I went back and watched Season 2 recently. Pretty sure they confirmed the body in the shack was Doakes' with dental records. Would love to see him back though.

Enjoyed this episode, sad to see Isaac gone though, he was a great character.

Well,

He's going to be in the last episode according to: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2235994/ - Likely just a flashback though..?

MagicMarker

Does anyone else think Deb will actually be black by the end of the season? Maybe that will be the big finale? They seem to add a few new layers of fake tan every episode.

adox

Its the best of the last 3 seasons but still, after a very promising start is still a bit meh. I will watch til the end of the season though.

If only they had wrapped it up after season 4...........

squirrelohara

I read that deb is going to tie dexter up in the last episode and touch his bumhole because she fancies him. Personally i dont believe it.

mathproblem

connollys wrote: »

The killings are getting ridiculous, middle of the day in public places. Still not as bad as the airport kill but the gun range? A joke. Same with the shooting on the boat, similar to Lewis earlier in the season.

Dexter sneaks up on him seconds after they had been looking right at each other & then it cuts away to him talking to Isaac about how these lads know all about Dex & they'll probably try follow him as bait to get Isaac. WTF?? if that lad knew all about Dex & got a dossier from the Ukrainian mafia etc then surely he'd be like, "hey I know your face, what the hell are you doing in the bay right next to me?"

It's not something I'd normally pick up on or be bothered about but the fact Dex & Isaac had that conversation in the very next scene made it stand out like a sore thumb.




Strange season where there is no real single villain as a story arc all the way through but a few of them as highlighted by the rise of this new fire guy. As such it doesn't feel like there is a strong plotline driving the season; is it about Isaac(clearly not any more), the poison girl, the weird love with Debs or the La Guerta chasing him thing? Or just a formless mush of the whole lot.

I am interested in the whole La Guerta chasing him thing the most though, maybe i just want him to get caught at this stage. That's setting up to be the basis of the last season so there's reason to be optimistic about that. I guess there's not the same level of tension if he's not going up against someone from within the department who's a step or two behind him & until he knows La Guerta's on to him that wont really kick in.

ixoy

Good except that the killings in day light are just ridiculous at this point. The shooting range - nobody else there? Nothing? No security cameras? The boat - shoving a body overboard? Has Miami perhaps got a plague and everybody has deserted.

Real shame to kill off Isaac as he had some great scenes with Dexter. Replacing him with a sudden arsonist killer is quite worrying. Seems like a very sudden and forced shift by the writers. If it doesn't tie in with some existing story arcs, I'll be quite disappointed.

Also LaGuerta - hope people have time for a funeral. I suspect that the digging the two graves comment will apply to her.

Backstreet Moyes

mathproblem wrote: »

Dexter sneaks up on him seconds after they had been looking right at each other & then it cuts away to him talking to Isaac about how these lads know all about Dex & they'll probably try follow him as bait to get Isaac. WTF?? if that lad knew all about Dex & got a dossier from the Ukrainian mafia etc then surely he'd be like, "hey I know your face, what the hell are you doing in the bay right next to me?"

It's not something I'd normally pick up on or be bothered about but the fact Dex & Isaac had that conversation in the very next scene made it stand out like a sore thumb.




Strange season where there is no real single villain as a story arc all the way through but a few of them as highlighted by the rise of this new fire guy. As such it doesn't feel like there is a strong plotline driving the season; is it about Isaac(clearly not any more), the poison girl, the weird love with Debs or the La Guerta chasing him thing? Or just a formless mush of the whole lot.

I am interested in the whole La Guerta chasing him thing the most though, maybe i just want him to get caught at this stage. That's setting up to be the basis of the last season so there's reason to be optimistic about that. I guess there's not the same level of tension if he's not going up against someone from within the department who's a step or two behind him & until he knows La Guerta's on to him that wont really kick in.

Pretty sure Dexters name was only mentioned after they couldnt get in contact with the man killed at the gun range.

Andy!!

I doubt LaGuerta will be dead by seasons end, but she'll definitely be on to him. I wonder what will be the definitive evidence. Or will she walk in on him.

challengemaster

I Am Kong! wrote: »

Seriously, I wonder do the people give the show their full attention when watching instead of basing opinions on the latest episode.

After reading a lot of these comments, I'm starting to wonder much the same.

the_monkey wrote: »

Is this the same Isaac who had that conversation with Dexter in jail ??

Yes, the same Issac. Who's character development with dexter has followed this pattern (off the top of my head):

• Dexter kills Victor
• Isaac finds out Victor is dead -> goes to boat used to dump body -> Finds Louis and kills him.
• Isaac gets led into trap by Dexter -> gets arrested
• Important Dexter/Isaac conversation
• Isaac gets out, refuses to obey brotherhoods orders to return to Kiev until Dexter is dead
• Tries to gun down Dexter in donut shop
• Brotherhood decides to "intervene" and Isaac goes into hiding
• Dexter waits to kill Isaac in apartment -> Interrupted -> Kills hitman and flees
• Isaac goes into gay bar, Dexter follows with plan to kill Isaac.
• Important Dexter/Isaac conversation #2 -> Alluded to that they could be friends under different circumstances.
• Isaac learns about hitmen sent to kill him -> realizes he can't kill them alone
• Isaac attempts to bargin with dexter -> agrees to let him live for helping him
• Dexter won't help Isaac (but in his own mind is reluctant not to due to the "bond" they've formed)
• Isaac kidnaps Hannah -> Uses her to force Dexter to help him
• Dexter/Isaac kill hitmen
• Isaac gets shot
• Dexter sees Isaac as more of a 'friend' rather than a target/threat now, and sees no reason to kill him, and agrees to fulfill his last wish of dumping him where he left Victor

If you ask me, it's a pretty conclusive evolution of their relationship, and there's nothing to be confused about (if you paid attention)

jester77 wrote: »

Good episode but I'm not a fan of these recent killings, they are very un-Dexter for want of a better word.

The killing of the hitman at the shooting range and the slitting the throat of the other hitman in Isaacs apartment is not something Dexter would do. I find that the storyline is getting very messy now.

They're not something that Dexter would usually do, as it's against the code. But again, if you've been paying attention, it makes sense.

• Hannah has been an influence on Dexter and has confronted/questioned his code.
• In the last scenes, Dexter admits that he couldn't afford to lose Hannah like he did Rita. His hand is being forced in the matter
• We know Dexter will kill out of necessity to protect himself -> Doakes.

Taking the above into account, there's nothing out of place.

Also I believe the writers have intentionally made things "messy", to reinforce the idea that Dexter telling people about his dark passenger / ignoring the code, results in chaos. The very same reason the code was instilled into dexter, to prevent chaotic killing.

connollys wrote: »

The killings are getting ridiculous, middle of the day in public places. Still not as bad as the airport kill but the gun range? A joke. Same with the shooting on the boat, similar to Lewis earlier in the season.

I hate to be the one to break this to you, but people get killed all the time in the world during the daytime in public places. It's a little haphazard and rushed for dexter, but still very methodical (investigation into ranges that hold the rounds, it's outside Miami metro jurisdiction, etc)

As for Lewis' shooting, gang shootings are a regular occasion in some parts of the US. I wouldn't even question the plausibility of a mafia killing someone like that.

mathproblem wrote: »

Dexter sneaks up on him seconds after they had been looking right at each other & then it cuts away to him talking to Isaac about how these lads know all about Dex & they'll probably try follow him as bait to get Isaac. WTF?? if that lad knew all about Dex & got a dossier from the Ukrainian mafia etc then surely he'd be like, "hey I know your face, what the hell are you doing in the bay right next to me?"

It's not something I'd normally pick up on or be bothered about but the fact Dex & Isaac had that conversation in the very next scene made it stand out like a sore thumb.

Isaac alluded (initially when looking for help) that if the hitmen couldn't find Isaac, and knew he was after Dexter, then they would go after Dexter to lure Isaac.

The way I saw the whole thing was: They had only barely arrived when Isaac tried to bribe them to not kill him, and had not yet started looking for Isaac. Nor had they any reason to go to the club / find out about Dexter at that stage. Isaac is the primary target. Their brief was probably "Isaac is refusing orders and is a liability, he needs to be taken care of."

When Dexter kills the first guy at the shooting range, the other guy can't contact him and goes to the club to figure out what's up. They would both assume that Isaac took out the first hitman. Then (as predicted by Isaac), they know Isaac is after Dexter, so they reckon if they find Dexter, they will find Isaac (eventually).

Once the hitman turns up and Dexter spots him, he agrees to be bait and lead him to the ship where Isaac is waiting.

What neither of them counted on, was the phone call the hitman made on the way there to George (where george tells him they have a ship in the docks, that's where Isaac must be), and now George knew where to go too.

Strange season where there is no real single villain as a story arc all the way through but a few of them as highlighted by the rise of this new fire guy. As such it doesn't feel like there is a strong plotline driving the season; is it about Isaac(clearly not any more), the poison girl, the weird love with Debs or the La Guerta chasing him thing? Or just a formless mush of the whole lot.

I don't think the season is about any particular villan as such, more about the chaos that comes with not following the code, and essentially Dexter's eternal struggle with Harry / his dark passenger.

ixoy wrote: »

Good except that the killings in day light are just ridiculous at this point. The shooting range - nobody else there? Nothing? No security cameras? The boat - shoving a body overboard? Has Miami perhaps got a plague and everybody has deserted.

For all we know it could be well known in the docks the Ukranian mafia owned that ship, so nobody might bat an eyelid. Or just like has been alluded to many times this season - "Everyone has a price" - they could be paying off people to turn a blind eye to any activity. Why do you think the mafia would have a cargo ship? It's not for recreational purposes...

Real shame to kill off Isaac as he had some great scenes with Dexter. Replacing him with a sudden arsonist killer is quite worrying. Seems like a very sudden and forced shift by the writers. If it doesn't tie in with some existing story arcs, I'll be quite disappointed.

Also LaGuerta - hope people have time for a funeral. I suspect that the digging the two graves comment will apply to her.

Andy!! wrote: »

I doubt LaGuerta will be dead by seasons end, but she'll definitely be on to him. I wonder what will be the definitive evidence. Or will she walk in on him.

Funnily enough, I do like the idea that the "dig two graves" was hinting at LaGuerta, but I think it was more a summation/observation on how things have ended for Isaac. He was set out for revenge, and now there are two graves (Victor and Isaac). Be interesting to see if you're right though

Personally though, I don't see LaGuerta being killed off yet.

And my take on the RE-introduction of the arson investigator (remember he said he worked the church fire?) is that he ends up being used as the fall-guy for Dexter somehow.

ixoy

New theory: The arsonist killer is Doakes!

The evidence:
Season finale: It's called

Suprirse Motherf**ka!

which is a very direct reference to Daokes when he caught out Dexter in Season 2. He's going to surprise absolutely everyone when he turns up!

Arson / fire: Doakes was burnt alive. What better form of vengeance on a cruel world than fire?

'Bobby': This refers to Robert Thatcher. Thatcher was one of the victims of the Bay Harbour butcher. A small nod from Doakes to Dexter - he knows who the real Bay Harbour butcher is!

Pretty conclusive evidence really!

ixoy

ixoy wrote: »

New theory: The arsonist killer is Doakes!

The evidence:
Season finale: It's called

Suprirse Motherf**ka!

which is a very direct reference to Daokes when he caught out Dexter in Season 2. He's going to surprise absolutely everyone when he turns up!

Arson / fire: Doakes was burnt alive. What better form of vengeance on a cruel world than fire?

'Bobby': This refers to Robert Thatcher. Thatcher was one of the victims of the Bay Harbour butcher. A small nod from Doakes to Dexter - he knows who the real Bay Harbour butcher is!

Pretty conclusive evidence really!

Read a few posts up mate!

DBK

Doakes was blown up by gas canisters. So if he was following on they way he was "killed", he would be eating lots of tacos, farting on people and lighting the farts. :P

The title could be a ref to LaGuerta finding out Dexter is the killer and finally knowing that Doakes was innocent. She was his partner for a long time so it could what she mutters on the discovery.

don ramo

squirrelohara wrote: »

I read that deb is going to tie dexter up in the last episode and touch his bumhole because she fancies him. Personally i dont believe it.

i dont think michael c hall would be comfortable being tied up by his ex-wife, even with a set full of people id still be a bit wary:D:D:D

Sinfonia

challengemaster wrote: »

We know Dexter will kill out of necessity to protect himself -> Doakes.

Dexter struggled badly with Doakes, although did he ultimately decide he was going to kill him? I can't remember now (of course it was Lila who actually killed him).

Also, great post overall!

eire1

One thing that annoyed me in this episode is that in the time it took Dexter to get Isaac onto his boat and out to his dumping ground couldn't he have been saved by an ambulance and rushed to hospital??

Risteard

eire1 wrote: »

One thing that annoyed me in this episode is that in the time it took Dexter to get Isaac onto his boat and out to his dumping ground couldn't he have been saved by an ambulance and rushed to hospital??

I said the exact same thing to my brother at the time.

MagicMarker

I got the impression Isaac didn't want to be saved.

DBK

MagicMarker wrote: »

I got the impression Isaac didn't want to be saved.

Yeah, I think that was the gist of it. He had nothing left to live for he said.

As for Dexter deciding on killing Doakes. He didn't. He decided to frame him instead. Also the reason Dexter attended his funeral as they kinda bonded(used loosely) in a weird way during their last conversation if I remember correctly.

Lemongrab

Great episode.

Only real question I have is what's going to happen to Hannah? I don't see them keeping her on for multiple seasons. I'm guessing she goes away to Argentina....or dies.

Kirby

Lemongrab wrote: »

Great episode.

Only real question I have is what's going to happen to Hannah? I don't see them keeping her on for multiple seasons. I'm guessing she goes away to Argentina....or dies.

It would be highly atypical for her to live beyond this season if we follow what the show has done so far. But it is possible. Yvonne strahovski isn't doing another show at the moment and she isn't a movie actor like Julia Stiles. I mean yeah, she was in that assasin movie with Jason Statham a while back but she is very much a tv actress.

It's possible they may keep her around. As I said, it's unlikely though...especially as next year is going to be the last season and they will probably want the focus to be on the original cast.

Pity...coz I lurve me some Agent Walker

juniorcert2012

DBK wrote: »

Yeah, I think that was the gist of it. He had nothing left to live for he said.

As for Dexter deciding on killing Doakes. He didn't. He decided to frame him instead. Also the reason Dexter attended his funeral as they kinda bonded(used loosely) in a weird way during their last conversation if I remember correctly.

He wasn't even going to frame him anymore, doakes had basically convinced him to turn himself in and not to kill an innocent man, then lila finds his gps, goes out there and kills doakes with fire. I don't think it's possible that doakes is alive, he would have called laguerta or SOMEONE about it, not just stay hidden for like 5 years.

juniorcert2012

ixoy wrote: »

New theory: The arsonist killer is Doakes!

The evidence:
Season finale: It's called

Suprirse Motherf**ka!

which is a very direct reference to Daokes when he caught out Dexter in Season 2. He's going to surprise absolutely everyone when he turns up!

Arson / fire: Doakes was burnt alive. What better form of vengeance on a cruel world than fire?

'Bobby': This refers to Robert Thatcher. Thatcher was one of the victims of the Bay Harbour butcher. A small nod from Doakes to Dexter - he knows who the real Bay Harbour butcher is!

Pretty conclusive evidence really!

that's not much proof lol, Doakes was in an explosion, and they found an african americans body in the lake, masuka confirms this, the body was also SQUINTING at the time of the explosion which points to doakes even more as he ran towards the gas at the end to try stop it.

Also just because he murders a man named Robert before doesn't mean it has anything to do with the elevator, dexter has killed like 100 people, why just choose BOBBY.

ToniTuddle

Loving this season of Dexter but very sad Isaac is gone now, quite liked him!

Merkin

Lemongrab wrote: »

Great episode.

Only real question I have is what's going to happen to Hannah? I don't see them keeping her on for multiple seasons. I'm guessing she goes away to Argentina....or dies.

I just saw this episode a couple of nights ago. I reckon she's going to turn nasty on Dexter. He is obviously a smitten kitten and I don't think she's feeling it at all so I reckon it's going to go sour.