Tractor slow to start

just do it

The auld tractor ('60s MF165) is slow to start these cold mornings. Other than overnighting in a heated shed, any suggestions?

grumpyfarmer

just do it wrote: »

The auld tractor ('60s MF165) is slow to start these cold mornings. Other than overnighting in a heated shed, any suggestions?

Over night in a feeding passage of an occupied shed if you have one

pakalasa

Hot air gun down the air intake. Works for me.

bob2.0

just do it wrote: »

The auld tractor ('60s MF165) is slow to start these cold mornings. Other than overnighting in a heated shed, any suggestions?[/

You should fit a new high speed starter, that fixed the problem for me.

Bean_Flicker

Your heater plug could be burned out, an easy job to fit a new one.

just do it

grumpyfarmer wrote: »

Over night in a feeding passage of an occupied shed if you have one

unfortunately not an option. I've an open shed with creep at the back. I park it in here but it's the same temp as outside.

just do it

pakalasa wrote: »

Hot air gun down the air intake. Works for me.

Handy job, I may borrow one for this week and see how I get on. Now, where's the air intake?!

just do it

bob2.0 wrote: »

just do it wrote: »

The auld tractor ('60s MF165) is slow to start these cold mornings. Other than overnighting in a heated shed, any suggestions?

You should fit a new high speed starter, that fixed the problem for me.

Starter was changed last year, albeit a second hand one. Sounds expensive given the value of the tractor?

just do it

Bean_Flicker wrote: »

Your heater plug could be burned out, an easy job to fit a new one.

You're probably right!

Sam Kade

grumpyfarmer wrote: »

Over night in a feeding passage of an occupied shed if you have one

A neighbour of mine does that all winter, after a couple of winters his tractor was turned into a rust bucket. The condensation off the cattle causes it.

flyingfarmer

As previous posters replied it's the heater plug....cheap and a doddle to replace!

zetecescort

you could fit an engine block heater. never used one myself but read about lads in the US using them alot. not sure where you'd get them here though.

might be expensive but if you require the tractor to start every day it would be worth it

yellow50HX

Bean_Flicker wrote: »

Your heater plug could be burned out, an easy job to fit a new one.

Yeah check the heater plug and connections.

pakalasa

The heat gun is more or less doing what the heater plug is doing anyway.
The air intake - the pipe that sucks air into the engine. :rolleyes:

Bean_Flicker

pakalasa wrote: »

Hot air gun down the air intake. Works for me.

How much was the gun pakie?
One of them could be useful in a big frost

pakalasa

That pic was just off the internet. I got mine in Woodies.
This one. Now for €15.
http://www.woodiesdiy.com/Product/ROK-1500W-Heatgun-Exclusive-Online-Only-Offer/15636/1.0.9

just do it

pakalasa wrote: »

The heat gun is more or less doing what the heater plug is doing anyway.
The air intake - the pipe that sucks air into the engine. :rolleyes:

Yeah silly question I suppose and probably demonstrates why I've the bare minimum of machinery. No doubt it will be obvious when I have a look later

Cavanjack

Change heater plug. Failing that get injectors done up. Our 165 is 40 years old starts in a second even during the two recent bad winters. If you could keep it under any sort of cover it would be a help too.

BENDYBINN

Anybody use the easy start spray? It works a treat for me.one spray into the air intake and she fires!

pakalasa

BENDYBINN wrote: »

Anybody use the easy start spray? It works a treat for me.one spray into the air intake and she fires!

Overuse of Easy Start Spray will seriously mess up your engine. I was talking to a tractor mechanic a while back and he said a lot of engines messed up during the last cold winter we had. It leaves a depsoit on the cylinder walls which destroy the piston rings.

http://forum.difflock.com/viewtopic.php?t=7790&sid=efa7e09d6242a7ab1ab8221bbee9788a

f140

get the high speed starter. there only about €200+vat and you will never look back. I bet you wont even need the heater when you get this.

bbam

pakalasa wrote: »

Overuse of Easy Start Spray will seriously mess up your engine. I was talking to a tractor mechanic a while back and he said a lot of engines messed up during the last cold winter we had. It leaves a depsoit on the cylinder walls which destroy the piston rings.

http://forum.difflock.com/viewtopic.php?t=7790&sid=efa7e09d6242a7ab1ab8221bbee9788a

This is a big deal..
Essentially your engine will be addicted to the stuff and then even this won't work...

Easy Start is bad news !

BENDYBINN

bbam wrote: »

This is a big deal..
Essentially your engine will be addicted to the stuff and then even this won't work...

Easy Start is bad news !

Seems to me farmers love hardship Sure this easy start must be some kind of a"drug" Stay away from it or your tractor will become addicted!
If its such a bad product why is it still on the market?

bbam

BENDYBINN wrote: »

Seems to me farmers love hardship Sure this easy start must be some kind of a"drug" Stay away from it or your tractor will become addicted!
If its such a bad product why is it still on the market?

Check it out..

https://www.google.ie/#hl=en&safe=off&tbo=d&output=search&sclient=psy-ab&q=engine+addicted+to+easy+start&oq=engine+addicted+to+&gs_l=hp.1.0.0i30l2.2562.6967.0.8771.19.15.0.4.4.1.413.3554.0j4j8j2j1.15.0.les%3B..0.0...1c.1.lYfKk_EXdbY&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&fp=2ae8555297204afb&bpcl=38897761&biw=1517&bih=714

Continued use on an engine is bad news...
I wouldn't entertain the stuff, but if your happy, keep spraying

just do it

pakalasa wrote: »

Hot air gun down the air intake. Works for me.

I wonder would the hair dryer do the same thing?

red bull

If you have not got anti freeze in, drain it nightly and fill it with hot water in morning never fails. Dont forget to let water out again in eve or suffer :eek:

pakalasa

just do it wrote: »

I wonder would the hair dryer do the same thing?

No, the industrial hot air gun is 10 times hotter. One's for melting paint, the other is for drying hair.:)

GoodMan55985

Hi, I have a similar problem on MF165 but know very little about engines but willing to learn. Would anyone have a picture for the location of the heater plug and starter on MF165 so I could know where to look to change this equipment? I see guys say here to change heater plug or fit a high speed starter. Thanks.

case956tom

GoodMan55985 wrote: »

Hi, I have a similar problem on MF165 but know very little about engines but willing to learn. Would anyone have a picture for the location of the heater plug and starter on MF165 so I could know where to look to change this equipment? I see guys say here to change heater plug or fit a high speed starter. Thanks.

sorry i dont have a pic but the air intake is on the right side of the head its an aluminium manifold the heater plug will have a pipe and a wire going to it the starter is on the left on the engine,i would get the battery tested before buying a new starter.

ootbitb

bbam wrote: »

This is a big deal..
Essentially your engine will be addicted to the stuff and then even this won't work...

Easy Start is bad news !

Aussie version "Start Ya Bastard":D

kingstown

MF 165 Heater Plug will look like this, remember all you will see is the bit with the nut and the spade connection. The 'glow coil' will be in screwed into the engine.

mjmorr

I've seen the hot air guns very cheap in Lidl recently

grazeaway

GoodMan55985 wrote: »

Hi, I have a similar problem on MF165 but know very little about engines but willing to learn. Would anyone have a picture for the location of the heater plug and starter on MF165 so I could know where to look to change this equipment? I see guys say here to change heater plug or fit a high speed starter. Thanks.

See the pics on this thread. The starter is below the manifold on this yoke. The starters can be mounted ont eh left or right of the engine. They are mounted to the engine block but are actually turning the fly wheel.

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general/glow-pluge-has-me-beet-178962/

zetecescort

red bull wrote: »

If you have not got anti freeze in, drain it nightly and fill it with hot water in morning never fails. Dont forget to let water out again in eve or suffer :eek:

my father used to do this on our 5000 when I was younger. thought it was a bit of an "old wives tale" really but that said it always started eventually

pakalasa

I decided to test the heater plug on our tractor tonight. Turned the key and waited 30 secs or so. Hopped off to feel the heat on the plug outside. The wire had fallen off. No wonder it was hard to start.

Joe the Plumber

Have a 5000 for putting out bales. A couple of years ago she just wouldn't start. She needed the heater for about 45 sec and at that she would nearly deaden the battery before she'd fire up.

My uncle landed one day saw me trying to start it. He got a 14 spanner loosened the nuts holding on the injector pump rotated it clockwise about 5 or 6 degrees and I have a completely different tractor. Absolutely amazing fires up first pick of the key. Not a fraction of the smoke out the exhaust.

Try it better than any heat gun or hot water or easy start.

It's actually advancing the timing to compensate for years of wear.

And I checked it out after its not bad for the engine.

Odelay

Joe the Plumber wrote: »

He got a 14 spanner loosened the nuts holding on the injector pump rotated it clockwise about 5 or 6 degrees and I have a completely different tractor.

Just by rotating the pump itself? I have never heard of this but am interested in hearing more! Anyone else doing it?

ootbitb

Know nothing about this but saw a warning while doing a search:

NOTE: Do not adjust the timing with the engine running as this will cause severe damage to the injection pump geartrain.

bbam

Odelay wrote: »

Just by rotating the pump itself? I have never heard of this but am interested in hearing more! Anyone else doing it?

Isnt it called "advancing or retarding" the timing of the pump.. Our DB996 has alignment marks on the pump housing to guide the adjustment..

My understanding is that it makes fine adjustments on the exact timing of fuel injection and optimum compression. While it may help an otherwise good engine it will not make a silk purse from a sows ear..

Joe the Plumber

It worked for me, There is no reason for me to lie about it.

We seem to rely an awful lot on google these days for our information.

I think if you asked an experienced mechanic and tried it. the tractor wont blow up.

It just wont start if it does'nt work, you have nothing to loose.

Joe the Plumber

ootbitb wrote: »

Know nothing about this but saw a warning while doing a search:

NOTE: Do not adjust the timing with the engine running as this will cause severe damage to the injection pump geartrain.

We carried out the adjustments with the engine off!

It takes about 3 minutes.

It might take 2 or 3 goes to get it right.

zetecescort

just to add - check the simple things first before you splash out on a new starter

good battery, try one from another machine if you can
good battery cables, easy to make new or a mechanic/motor factors should be able to do it for you
clean the contacts on the battery cables and starter

corkcomp

where to start..

is the engine turning over fast and blowing out white exhaust smoke? If so the battery and starter are ok and you have worn engine / bad compression.
When used correctly, easy start will not harm the engine but 99% of people don't know how to use easy start spray properly so keep away from it unless you are in the 1% (if you use a glow plug / heater at the same time as the spray you could blow your cylinder head)

Advancing the injection pump timing should only be done by someone who knows what they are at, and every engine is different so you could be retarding the timing if you go adjusting it. I'm pretty sure the poster that mentioned it's uncle had done that job many times before so he knew exactly which way to rotate the pump for that engine.

check out that the engine is turning over fairly quickly and get help with checking you have a working heater plug, don't go out and buy anything yet as you could be on the wrong track.

bogman_bass

just do it wrote: »

I wonder would the hair dryer do the same thing?

tried the hair dryer this morning. it worked!

pakalasa

Well, a hot air gun, on full heat will work even better.;)

bogman_bass

no doubt! today wasnt exactly artic but now I've seen that the theory works i'll invest in the heat gun!

just do it

Is this the air inlet, at the top of this thing? It's a MF165 and this photo is taken from in front of the tractor. You can see the radiator in the background.

Given the tractor starts fine at ambient air temperature a hair dryer ought to suffice?! Have yet to try it. Took 22 engine turn overs to start this am, that can't be good for it.

pakalasa

It looks like it. Does it suck in air when the engine is running, like a vacuum cleaner?

larthehar

Just out of curiosity, if you pull start it or hill start does it fire easy?

As already said, stay away from easy start and why use a heat gun when the manufacturer already designed in this concept?!

And also what type of engine is it Perkins A4.212 or AD4.203?

we have a MF50 digger with the A4.212, coldest morn of the year and it goes 1st crack without heating, our neighbour has a A4.203, hard to start the way that it is maintained but a decent battery and a new heater plug would easily sort it..

pakalasa

This video shows how the tractor heat plug (Thermostart) works. As you can see you need to keep the key on for at least 15 secs before trying to start. There is an element that needs to heat up first before the fuel starts to flow. With a flame like that, it should start no problem. I leave mine on for (up to see next post ) 30secs now before trying.

bbam

Just on the thermostarts...
30Seconds is the max you should be running them for and then let them cool down..
As pakalasa says, there is an internal valve that when heated opens and allows diesel through to burn.. Excessive heating of the thermostart at any one time can warp the spindle and ruien the seal. the result will be a small ammount of diesel constantly being drawn in through the air intake. It will show symptoms similar to a knackered diesel pump/injectors. Smokey and a considerable diesel consumption intake.

We usually throw a new thermostart into our DB996 every second winter, worth it to keep these old girls starting easily..