Female Cyclists - Why you took up Cycling?!

kerry4sam

I've been wondering if their are many female cyclists who frequent this forum for the tremendous helpful support and info and of course the banter that is provided in here.

I found a women's cycling discussion forum earlier this evening that in 3-years has amassed only 93-posts with 73-members.

From attending varying cycling events in 2012, and even from my own training out and about I've seen female cyclists to be by far in the minority.

Personally cannot wait to get back on my own lickle racer. I got into cycling from several slagging-matches after having never cycled the Ring Of Kerry and that's what I started my own training log in July of this year. Before then, it was a dream, never knew it was in me tbh.

Would their be many female members from varying cycling clubs or non-club cyclists like myself who frequent this here forum; if so, I'd like to know your reasons for taking to the sport. What's your drive and ambition within Cycling? That women cycling discussion forum I found earlier is very quiet, but I find it hard to believe that female cyclists are actually that quiet or don't have that many questions either so maybe it is due to the low number of female cyclists to being with?

Raam

My female cyclist took it up cos I did.

Lusk Doyle

Raam wrote: »

My female cyclist took it up cos I did.

Your female cyclist? Do you own her?

Lumen

kerry4sam wrote: »

I found a women's cycling discussion forum earlier this evening that in 3-years has amassed only 93-posts with 73-members

Would you go to a women's-only pub?

DirkVoodoo

Lots of female cyclists.

I'd say female cyclists who also happen to be internet geeks and enjoy arguing over helmets and lance armstrong would definitely be in the minority.

green_dub_girl

I love cycling and took it up for both fitness and a more stress free commute...

I don't participate in a cycling club now because I find it a bit intimidating to be the only female there. But definitely think there are lots of female cyclists commuting, just maybe they are less likely to participate in the club side of things.

nak

I got a bike because was a bike messenger and cycled everywhere. Started commuting when I moved to Dublin; commute was 120km round trip in Scotland, so wasn't really an option then. Joined a club after a couple of years and started racing.

My husband started doing road spins when I joined a club and he is racing now too. Most of the
girls I know race etc, but don't follow pro racing or read cycling press. I just bore them with the details. Love it myself, our lives revolve around cycling.

AssaultedPeanut

I imagine my cycling story is similar to most, male or female, I used to love cycling as a kid/teen and then I stopped until the cycle to work scheme popped up. I got a bike using the scheme over two years ago and have since become an addict. (I've asked for a bike tool kit and stand from Santy this year..)

I cycle to and from work every day (8-10KM each way, depending on the route I take) Not very far, but I use my bike for everything now. Cycling to friends, nipping to the shops or in to town, or just a leisurely spin to Howth pier and back.

At the mo I have a single speed road bike, but I'm going to get that dream bike, aaaannnyday now. And hopefully start going for proper spins and maybe join a club.

I'm mainly a lurker on this forum, and boards in general.

Lumen wrote: »

Would you go to a women's-only pub?

Yes

kerry4sam

Lumen wrote: »

Would you go to a women's-only pub?

No, but I'd like to gauge how many female cyclists frequent this here forum.

bambergbike

Don’t think there’s anything very woman-specific about my motivation or ambitions, but here they are ...

I cycle for transport, fitness, fresh air, fun and financial reward (when I guide bike tours). I like the simplicity of heading out the door, hopping on my bike, and arriving in a different town or even a different country without needing petrol or train timetables. I also like knowing the region where I live like the back of my hand - not just in the sense that I can always find my way home, but also in the sense of being able to "read" the landscape, knowing the local history, geology etc.

I didn't do any sportifs in the summer, but I used a series of trips I was making anyway as excuses for cycling either the outward or the return legs. My sister lives around a hundred miles from me, and I cycled over to see her a few times. I cycled over the mountains between Bavaria and Thuringia to get to the Thuringian state library, and I cycled from Dublin airport to see my family in Sligo. In September I realized that I hadn't done much cycling purely for fun (with no desire to get anywhere) and I went off on a scenic ride that was supposed to end right back where it had started. It didn't: I fell off and grazed my elbow as I was coming down the last of seven hills, and then I wimped out and got the train home, so that was yet another point-to-point course.
Next summer I might try and do a sportive or three, maybe including the Wicklow 200.

I would guess that female-specific barriers to cycling exist, but that women who cycle regularly have either overcome them or were less bothered by them in the first place so that they don't have a lot to say about them on forums.

SWL

bambergbike wrote: »

Don’t think there’s anything very woman-specific about my motivation or ambitions, but here they are ...

I cycle for transport, fitness, fresh air, fun and financial reward (when I guide bike tours). I like the simplicity of heading out the door, hopping on my bike, and arriving in a different town or even a different country without needing petrol or train timetables. I also like knowing the region where I live like the back of my hand - not just in the sense that I can always find my way home, but also in the sense of being able to "read" the landscape, knowing the local history, geology etc.

I didn't do any sportifs in the summer, but I used a series of trips I was making anyway as excuses for cycling either the outward or the return legs. My sister lives around a hundred miles from me, and I cycled over to see her a few times. I cycled over the mountains between Bavaria and Thuringia to get to the Thuringian state library, and I cycled from Dublin airport to see my family in Sligo. In September I realized that I hadn't done much cycling purely for fun (with no desire to get anywhere) and I went off on a scenic ride that was supposed to end right back where it had started. It didn't: I fell off and grazed my elbow as I was coming down the last of seven hills, and then I wimped out and got the train home, so that was yet another point-to-point course.
Next summer I might try and do a sportive or three, maybe including the Wicklow 200.

I would guess that female-specific barriers to cycling exist, but that women who cycle regularly have either overcome them or were less bothered by them in the first place so that they don't have a lot to say about them on forums.

Sorry but that is just rubbish, what barriers to cycling exist for women that don't exist for men?

To cycle you need a bike and get up and go, they are the only barriers that exist the latter is the biggest.

kavanagh_h

I took up cycling so that I could go on a group cycling holiday after reading an article in the newspaper over 12 years ago. Since then I have been cycling at weekends in the summers with my other half for fitness, weight loss and fun of it. Great to get to know the area and the country roads you'd never normally go down in the car. I just did my 6th cycling holiday last month.

Thought about joining a club but they are all over 10km away. The fact that I would be in the minority has never crossed my mind. The only worry would be that Id be holding others back especially as men would naturally be faster cycling than women.

I recently bumped into Drogheda Wheelers while out cycling in Slane last week and they seemed very friendly with a few women so I may join them for their leisure cycle when the weather improves (if they'll have me!).

H.

Paul Kiernan

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Lots of female cyclists.

I'd say female cyclists who also happen to be internet geeks and enjoy arguing over helmets and lance armstrong would definitely be in the minority.

Oh, so we're all bleedin' internet geeks now, are we?

bambergbike

Originally Posted by bambergbike:

I would guess that female-specific barriers to cycling exist, but that women who cycle regularly have either overcome them or were less bothered by them in the first place so that they don't have a lot to say about them on forums.

SWL wrote: »

Sorry but that is just rubbish, what barriers to cycling exist for women that don't exist for men?

Quite a few. Cycling home last Thursday night, I took a short cut across a forest. It was a moonlit night, and I live on the edge of the forest. Any man would have done the same, but I don't know many other women who would; women tend to have different preferences when it comes to (perceived) safety.

Independently of personal preferences like that, women interested in getting into cycling often have to contend with male-dominated environments and the challenges (as well as attractions )they present. If you walk into a bike shop as a novice male cyclist looking to buy a bike, the men in the bike shop (it practically always is men) will generally take you seriously (or pretend to) and sell you something useful. A novice female cyclist may be steered towards a badly-designed, inefficient bike, possibly with pink decals. I have a female friend who only discovered that she likes cycling last year after doing around 20km on my hybrid (and trying out her son's road bike after I had swapped out his clipless pedals for flats). She had always thought that cycling was hard work, and she suddenly realized that it was only hard work because her bike was rubbish. She then decided to sell her bike and get a new one, and she took me along to the bike shop. The staff seemed hell-bent on selling her a carbon copy of the rubbish female-specific bike she was trying to get rid of - completely upright riding position, very low step-through frame and so on. This despite the fact that she is slim, fit, regularly jogs past the bike shop, and has no back problems. They may have been ageist as well as sexist, but there was definitely an element of sexism to it.

Caroline_ie

I took cycling for several reasons :

1/ to lose weight back in 2007. I had gained a lot of weight after moving to Canada. Got a road bike in 2006, but only rode it properly in 2007.
2/ to meet people. I started meeting up with some of the Orwell girls and the boardsies. That completely changed my life. I did lots of long distance and audaxes in Ireland and France before I giving racing a go.
3/ I am french. We like cycling.
4/ I am lazy and I hate walking to places.
5/ I am impatient and I hate being stopped in traffic.

nak

bambergbike wrote: »

Independently of personal preferences like that, women interested in getting into cycling often have to contend with male-dominated environments and the challenges (as well as attractions )they present. If you walk into a bike shop as a novice male cyclist looking to buy a bike, the men in the bike shop (it practically always is men) will generally take you seriously (or pretend to) and sell you something useful. A novice female cyclist may be steered towards a badly-designed, inefficient bike, possibly with pink decals. I have a female friend who only discovered that she likes cycling last year after doing around 20km on my hybrid (and trying out her son's road bike after I had swapped out his clipless pedals for flats). She had always thought that cycling was hard work, and she suddenly realized that it was only hard work because her bike was rubbish. She then decided to sell her bike and get a new one, and she took me along to the bike shop. The staff seemed hell-bent on selling her a carbon copy of the rubbish female-specific bike she was trying to get rid of - completely upright riding position, very low step-through frame and so on. This despite the fact that she is slim, fit, regularly jogs past the bike shop, and has no back problems. They may have been ageist as well as sexist, but there was definitely an element of sexism to it.

Agree with that. I was looking at helmets at the cycle show this year, had the top of the range Bontrager helmet to try on and the salesman comes over and tells me that's a men's helmet and showed me a patterned pink "women's" helmet at about an eighth of the price. He said the men's one for racing, I said I knew that, wanted it for racing and I wouldn't wear the pink one if they paid me. Also told him he just lost a customer. Why do we need different helmets?

SWL

bambergbike wrote: »

Originally Posted by bambergbike:

I would guess that female-specific barriers to cycling exist, but that women who cycle regularly have either overcome them or were less bothered by them in the first place so that they don't have a lot to say about them on forums.


Quite a few. Cycling home last Thursday night, I took a short cut across a forest. It was a moonlit night, and I live on the edge of the forest. Any man would have done the same, but I don't know many other women who would; women tend to have different preferences when it comes to (perceived) safety.

Independently of personal preferences like that, women interested in getting into cycling often have to contend with male-dominated environments and the challenges (as well as attractions )they present. If you walk into a bike shop as a novice male cyclist looking to buy a bike, the men in the bike shop (it practically always is men) will generally take you seriously (or pretend to) and sell you something useful. A novice female cyclist may be steered towards a badly-designed, inefficient bike, possibly with pink decals. I have a female friend who only discovered that she likes cycling last year after doing around 20km on my hybrid (and trying out her son's road bike after I had swapped out his clipless pedals for flats). She had always thought that cycling was hard work, and she suddenly realized that it was only hard work because her bike was rubbish. She then decided to sell her bike and get a new one, and she took me along to the bike shop. The staff seemed hell-bent on selling her a carbon copy of the rubbish female-specific bike she was trying to get rid of - completely upright riding position, very low step-through frame and so on. This despite the fact that she is slim, fit, regularly jogs past the bike shop, and has no back problems. They may have been ageist as well as sexist, but there was definitely an element of sexism to it.

LOL I find your views on men very sexist.

That is not a specific barrier to getting into cycling for women many men could say the same thing about buying gear in shops. Women are openly welcomed in every club I know, bikes are available in womens sizes, as is specific clothing, all for similar prices to the equipment men use, so where is the barrier?

What is so difficult or different about a male dominated environment belive it or not all the men who cycle have a life, girlfriends, wife, kids all the usual stuff do you expect them to wolf whistle at you while out on a bike ride.

You have a very poor view on men, in fact I would suggest you join a male dominated club ASAP and discover the joys of a cycling club and learn a little about what really interests most guys and trust me it is not the women on a sunday spin.

The only barrier stoping women from getting involved in cycling is themselves but it seems its easier to blame the lads on a club spin for the incorrect preception of some women than to blame themselves.

SWL

nak wrote: »

Agree with that. I was looking at helmets at the cycle show this year, had the top of the range Bontrager helmet to try on and the salesman comes over and tells me that's a men's helmet and showed me a patterned pink "women's" helmet at about an eighth of the price. He said the men's one for racing, I said I knew that, wanted it for racing and I wouldn't wear the pink one if they paid me. Also told him he just lost a customer. Why do we need different helmets?

That is not a barrier to entry for women to get into cycling, its poor customer service. Good god get a grip.

A barrier to entry suggests than men do not want women cycling or in cycling clubs, the reality is totally different it appears some people look for problems that don't exist its all about being a victim.

nak

I didn't say it was a barrier, just that some men in my experience have the attitude that women aren't that serious about cycling. Have always had more male friends than female and find there is more of a divide between men and women in Ireland than I did in the UK. Both parties are to blame for that.

It's not just cycling that can be off putting to women, sport in general can be due to a perceived lack of femininity. I went on a team building day with work and half the girls sat out the activities because they didn't want to get sweaty, wear sports clothes or mess up their hair/make-up.

Took my Mum to the Track World Cup last week and she said knowing that I race on the track myself that boys would really enjoy racing if they got to try it out! Heard a few comments about the female riders appearance, along the lines of they're not very feminine/attractive with bodies like that.

Caroline_ie

nak wrote: »

Heard a few comments about the female riders appearance, along the lines of they're not very feminine/attractive with bodies like that.

Feck people's comments! My goal in life is to be Kristina Vogel!

AssaultedPeanut

SWL wrote: »

That is not a barrier to entry for women to get into cycling, its poor customer service. Good god get a grip.

A barrier to entry suggests than men do not want women cycling or in cycling clubs, the reality is totally different it appears some people look for problems that don't exist its all about being a victim.

That's not a barrier in your opinion. Maybe some women might be put off by the poor attitude of a few like those shown in the examples above, then it can become a barrier. Not just in cycling clubs, but in simply buying bikes/bike related gear.

I agree with what you said about just getting a bike and getting out there. That's the bones of it alright.

nak wrote: »

It's not just cycling that can be off putting to women, sport in general can be due to a perceived lack of femininity. I went on a team building day with work and half the girls sat out the activities because they didn't want to get sweaty, wear sports clothes or mess up their hair/make-up.

Took my Mum to the Track World Cup last week and she said knowing that I race on the track myself that boys would really enjoy racing if they got to try it out! Heard a few comments about the female riders appearance, along the lines of they're not very feminine/attractive with bodies like that.

Exactly, it's more of a social "barrier" for some women in some sports. Whether it's just perception or not. And it's not just by men, it's by other women too as nak has pointed out. No one's playing the victim or "blaming the lads"

nak

Caroline_ie wrote: »

Feck people's comments! My goal in life is to be Kristina Vogel!

Mine too! She was very impressive. Need to get back in the gym

Lusk Doyle

Caroline_ie wrote: »

Feck people's comments! My goal in life is to be Kristina Vogel!

+1. Who gives a **** how others look. Who needs approval from the other or same sex for validation of what we do?

feck sake lads

ladies how would your hubby or partener feel if your training partener was a man.

nak

feck sake lads wrote: »

ladies how would your hubby or partener feel if your training partener was a man.

Depends how hot he was My husband wouldn't mind and I wouldn't mind if it was the other way round. One of our friends is a guy I met commuting to work, now friends with his wife too.

Lumen

feck sake lads wrote: »

ladies how would your hubby or partener feel if your training partener was a man.

The 19th century called. They'd like their question back.

NamelessPhil

I've been on a bike for 30+ years. One of my first really great memories of cycling was as a kid on my local hill trying to get my crappy analogue speedo to hit 20mph (it had a dial with a green/yellow/red zone and a needle, trying to get it into the red without hitting the gravel patch was life on the edge!).

I've cycled to school, college and work and throughout my pregnancy (far more comfortable and faster than walking).

I used to ride with a small club in the 90s as the only woman for a couple of years.Then other things got in the way. I've recently re-joined a local club and have often been the only woman on many of the rides, it doesn't bother me, they have a policy of "no man left behind" and anyway I'm not the slowest in the hills by a long shot.

Over my many years I have encountered sexism in cycling. My first club insisted that I had to get lesser points in club sprints even though I was the only woman! In later years the veneer of pink and floweriness that surrounds women's kit is off-putting. A recent post by doozerie puts this in context female gloves, how the f**k are you supposed to wipe your snots off on that, the f**king bow would get caught on your nose. Even the Women's Cycling Ireland website suffers from pinkification including the Rás na mBán jersey. There is also a perception that you have to prove yourself that little bit harder than a man would when riding with a bunch (present company excepted).

My husband has no problems with my going out riding with the lads on weekends, he gets to go out with his club/for a spin on the other day in the weekend, we both will book time with the turbo-trainer. Even my three year-old knows that "Mammy's going cycling".

Overall no real barriers to cycling as a woman.

fat bloke

NamelessPhil wrote: »

My husband has no problems with my going out riding with the lads on weekends,

Tee hee hee.

In defense of my puerility, if I didn't quote you, someone else would''ve...


With regard to pinkified gear. Equality shouldn't mean banning femininity. The women's cycling gear looks great in my opinion and pink is a very apposite colour in the cycling world -the giro being the obvious example.

DirkVoodoo

Next they'll be using green for some Irish road race, what century is this?

Iwannahurl

To get to work on time, without having to sit in traffic like a dolt, and to feel invigorated on arriving at the office instead of sluggish and irritable.

bambergbike

My original point was that the women who cycle and frequent cycling forums are, by definition, NOT the ones who are so bothered by the barriers or challenges it throws up for women that have led to it having such an obvious gender gap and such limited female participation. That's why there are so few woman-specific threads that KerryforSam was left wondering whether women were participating much at all.

I imagine that most of women here:

don't mind getting sweaty
don't mind wearing geeky-but-practical cycling gear (although some may draw the line at helmets ...)
don't mind being overtaken by better cyclists and finding their own way home
don't mind cycling in the dark, or the rain, or the snow, or in heavy traffic, or in dark forests...on asphalt or gravel or whatever else
are happy cycling alone or with other men/women
are happy to sometimes fix their bikes themselves and sometimes just to tell (or even ask) the man in the bike shop what they want done to it.

So for us it is perfectly correct to say that there are no barriers. But the fact that there are so few women cycling suggests that barriers do exist for other women. Maybe only in their heads, but just because something is imaginary doesn't mean it has no impact in the real world. Anyone seeking to address comments to the women who have a problem with men, or grease, or sweat will have to go and find them first - they probably won't be here.

nak

fat bloke wrote: »

With regard to pinkified gear. Equality shouldn't mean banning femininity. The women's cycling gear looks great in my opinion and pink is a very apposite colour in the cycling world -the giro being the obvious example.

Nothing wrong with pink, just don't wear it on the bike, too much colour clashing. A lot of women's ranges are hideously patterned, eg.
http://www.terrybicycles.com/Apparel/Cycling-Tops/Strada-L-S-Jersey_2

NamelessPhil

fat bloke wrote: »

Tee hee hee.

In defense of my puerility, if I didn't quote you, someone else would''ve...

Why do you think I phrased it like that?;)

...the giro being the obvious example.

That's fine, but it's when it's all pervasive and automatically associated with being female, that's when it gets boring.

fat bloke

NamelessPhil wrote: »

Why do you think I phrased it like that?;)

Winking at strange lads on forums.

That's how it starts.:pac:

doozerie

SWL wrote:

The only barrier stoping women from getting involved in cycling is themselves but it seems its easier to blame the lads on a club spin for the incorrect preception of some women than to blame themselves.

Blame the lads? The posts you are taking issue with were not apportioning blame to anyone, that's a slant that you are introducing. For someone so keen to point out that men are great and welcoming, you are painting all us men in a very bad light with what come across as hostile posts on your part.

NamelessPhil

kavanagh_h wrote: »

Thought about joining a club but they are all over 10km away. The fact that I would be in the minority has never crossed my mind. The only worry would be that Id be holding others back especially as men would naturally be faster cycling than women.

I recently bumped into Drogheda Wheelers while out cycling in Slane last week and they seemed very friendly with a few women so I may join them for their leisure cycle when the weather improves (if they'll have me!).

Join your local club. There will be more people than you think at the same level as you. Some clubs have a policy of allowing beginners to ride with them for 3 sessions before you have to join up formally.

When you have to go 10km to get to the meet up point it's not too far in the context of a 60 - 100km ride. You can always take a shortcut home if it gets too much for you it's perfectly acceptable etiquette.

This is a good time of year to get out with a club, most won't be going too far or too fast at this time of year.

SWL

doozerie wrote: »

Blame the lads? The posts you are taking issue with were not apportioning blame to anyone, that's a slant that you are introducing. For someone so keen to point out that men are great and welcoming, you are painting all us men in a very bad light with what come across as hostile posts on your part.

The poster referred to "female specific barriers" to entry in cycling, there are none, they don't exist. If you want to start cycling you buy a bike and turn up at a club and you will be welcomed. That is a FACT.

If female specific barriers exist please highlight them, but so far the only barriers that have been listed relate to every aspect of modern life, nothing to do with "female specific barriers". This is cycling not Golf.

As for your conerns about me giving men a bad name I suggest you check out the irony of your words, unlike you if I have an opinion I voice it irrespective of whether the author is a man or women, your eagerness to ingratiate yourself with the women in apparent distress is a little pathetic or can I only disagree with male emasculated board members.

Maybe I am lucky the women I know in life are independent and self assured, if they want to go cycling they go, and the opinion of others is never considered.

doozerie

In relation to barriers, speaking as a man my view is that there are barriers to women in cycling. I think some of them are less prevalent than they used to be but I don't believe they've all disappeared by any means. As one example, I'm still pleasantly surprised to walk into a bike shop and find woman-specific cycling kit, a decent range where it's not all flowery and/or pink is even more rare.

In my experience a macho attitude remains common in cycling too. The assumption amongst the narrow-minded seems to be that it is such a tough sport that somehow it's "not for women". I've done martial arts for quite a few years and the same attitude exists in spades there - it's complete nonsense there too and the vast majority of guys that hold that view would be utterly outclassed by some of the female martial artists I've trained with, but unfortunately some men get very childish and defensive in the presence of the opposite sex and seem to feel the need to try to establish some form of upper hand in order to feel comfortable. Gender in cycling shouldn't even be a topic for debate though, we should all just ride our bikes and stop being so insecure.

doozerie

SWL wrote: »

As for your conerns about me giving men a bad name I suggest you check out the irony of your words, unlike you if I have an opinion I voice it irrespective of whether the author is a man or women, your eagerness to ingratiate yourself with the women in apparent distress is a little pathetic or can I only disagree with male emasculated board members.

Ouch, that's a harsh handbag you are swinging there. Does someone need a little hug?

SWL

doozerie wrote: »

In relation to barriers, speaking as a man my view is that there are barriers to women in cycling. I think some of them are less prevalent than they used to be but I don't believe they've all disappeared by any means. As one example, I'm still pleasantly surprised to walk into a bike shop and find woman-specific cycling kit, a decent range where it's not all flowery and/or pink is even more rare.

In my experience a macho attitude remains common in cycling too. The assumption amongst the narrow-minded seems to be that it is such a tough sport that somehow it's "not for women". I've done martial arts for quite a few years and the same attitude exists in spades there - it's complete nonsense there too and the vast majority of guys that hold that view would be utterly outclassed by some of the female martial artists I've trained with, but unfortunately some men get very childish and defensive in the presence of the opposite sex and seem to feel the need to try to establish some form of upper hand in order to feel comfortable. Gender in cycling shouldn't even be a topic for debate though, we should all just ride our bikes and stop being so insecure.

Why won't women need specific sports gear, they have different bodies to men? That still does not prove there is a barrier to entry to the sport.

I have never experienced a overly macho attitude in the sport or an unwelcome for women cyclists. Cycling is no tougher than many sports such as Running, Rowing, Cross Country Skiing etc. Everybody likes to think there sport is tougher than others but that is not the case.

The fact is cycling welcomes women as much as men, the reason women don't do it in large numbers is because they don't like cycling nothing to do with "female specific barriers"

Lumen

SWL wrote: »

Everybody likes to think there sport is tougher than others but that is not the case.

"Instead of competing for possession of a ball, the players, called “chapandaz,” battle each other to gain control of a headless, disemboweled goat carcass. Rules vary widely, but generally once competitors get hold of the carcass, they have to drag it to the goal while being ferociously battered by whips, fists, and whatever else the competition has to offer."

doozerie

SWL wrote: »

I have never experienced a overly macho attitude in the sport ...

You appear to consider aggressive posts, some of them in particular seemingly intended to offend, as perfectly acceptable in this thread. Perhaps you find it hard to recognise an overly macho attitude from a position of representing it.

Anyway, you appear not to be interested in a discussion, just a shouting match. Perhaps we should leave the thread for women to contribute to it, it would be ironic in the extreme for two men to derail the thread by haggling over whether women are subjected to a dismissive attitude on the part of men.

SWL

doozerie wrote: »

You appear to consider aggressive posts, some of them in particular seemingly intended to offend, as perfectly acceptable in this thread. Perhaps you find it hard to recognise an overly macho attitude from a position of representing it.

Anyway, you appear not to be interested in a discussion, just a shouting match. Perhaps we should leave the thread for women to contribute to it, it would be ironic in the extreme for two men to derail the thread by haggling over whether women are subjected to a dismissive attitude on the part of men.

My posts are aggressive in fairness that is a bit rich go back and re-read your posts and tell me who is the aggressor.


I am interested in a discussion, but not one poster has proved there a "specific female barriers" to entry to the sport of cycling. Has a cycling club refused entry to women, can women purchase all the required equipment at a reasonable cost, can weomen represent Ireland in cycling, someone please tell me what the barriers are.

Women are not involved in cycling unlike running and swimming becasue it doesn't appeal to them its a private choice, it has nothing to do with it being male dominated may women follow Ruby for that very reason, however many including a female poster is making it out to be more than that it is.

Caroline_ie

I was never intimidated by the amount of men in cycling. When I show up at a race, it's not the men I am worried about, it's the women. They are the ones intimidating. I have been to spins, races, audaxes where I was the only woman. That never bothered me, although I was always happy when another woman who showed up.

And I am sure when a man goes into a race, he's looking at the other men, the same way I look at the women lining up on the start line.
Elitism (or fear of it) is as bad if not worse than sexism. Facing a group of cyclists (regardless of the sex) who all know each other you have never met before is extremely intimidating.

On the subject of gear, I usually want practical over pretty. Maybe the reason why most of the women specific gear is pink with flowers is just a lack of market research?

Sport is men dominated, competitive sports even more so. Maybe whoever is designing the women's gear probably think women will like it because they are men designers and just have no clue. I don't think it necessarily out of condescension towards women. (Even though I do complaint it is quite a lot).

Maybe the equivalent of a Fred is a woman who like a flowery kit. And we all know there are a lot more Freds than racing or dedicated long distance cyclists. Put yourself in the shoes of Mister Castelli. The flowery jersey will represent 90% of they women's jersey sales and the plain red jersey 10%. And that last comment is another proof that elitism or snobbism is worse than sexism in any sport.

I hope this makes sense.

petethedrummer

bambergbike wrote: »

Independently of personal preferences like that, women interested in getting into cycling often have to contend with male-dominated environments and the challenges (as well as attractions )they present. If you walk into a bike shop as a novice male cyclist looking to buy a bike, the men in the bike shop (it practically always is men) will generally take you seriously (or pretend to) and sell you something useful.

There are hundreds and possibly thousand of posts from men on this forum who have felt they were not taken seriously by sales people (usually (in fact 100% of the time)salesmen) in bike shops. Welcome to the mostly male not-taken-seriously-in-a-bike-shop club. But bike shops are amateurs, you should try buying a musical instrument in Dublin if you want to experience proper condescension.

bambergbike

petethedrummer wrote: »

There are hundreds and possibly thousand of posts from men on this forum who have felt they were not taken seriously by sales people (usually (in fact 100% of the time)salesmen) in bike shops. Welcome to the mostly male not-taken-seriously-in-a-bike-shop club. But bike shops are amateurs, you should try buying a musical instrument in Dublin if you want to experience proper condescension.

OK, I'll happily admit that condescension in bike shops is near-universal (my current LBS is very, very good at not letting it show), but I still reckon the actual junk female cycling novices leave the shops with is sometimes much harder to pedal than what a similarly clueless man would end up with.

I see a lot of clueless cyclists in the course of a summer because I live half a mile from the most boring towpath in Germany and hundreds of them trundle past every hour, many of them couples in late middle age that have the "same" bikes, but in the gents and ladies versions. The female partner typically struggles to keep up, and I often think it has at least as much to do with the bikes and/or the bike fit as with the fact that men are typically a bit stronger.

petethedrummer

bambergbike wrote: »

I see a lot of clueless cyclists in the course of a summer because I live half a mile from the most boring towpath in Germany and hundreds of them trundle past every hour, many of them couples in late middle age that have the "same" bikes, but in the gents and ladies versions. The female partner typically struggles to keep up, and I often think it has at least as much to do with the bikes and/or the bike fit as with the fact that men are typically a bit stronger.

I sometimes see somehing similar myself. Most typically along Howth cycle path where the husband is on a skinny tyred roadbike and the wife is on a fatter tyred hybrid. The husband looking back wondering why the wife can't keep up thinking he is great. But I would put that down to clueless in the relationship and the misunderstanding of the couple in regards to aerodynamics and rolling resistence than I would to sexism at the point of sale.

nak

A lot has been done in Ireland to encourage women's cycling, new race series, women's club spins. Orwell have seen a big increase in the number of female members in recent years, due to the beginner spins on a Saturday, skills sessions etc. I don't mind cycling with a group of men, but some women might be intimidated.

I have been on a couple of training sessions and been the only woman there, which did intimidate me a bit, as everyone was riding quite aggressively. I would also have been intimidated if I had been riding with a group of experienced women. It was my inexperience and lack of confidence that was the problem. The only difference that was made was when I crashed, they came over to help me, they didn't help the other lads, mostly just laughed at them. The perceived dangers involved in cycling may put some people off.

Sexism does exist in the professional side of the sport, maybe the lack of visible female role models in the sport is part of the reason why more women don't participate in it. It is very rare to see an article about a female rider in a cycling magazine, women's road racing is rarely televised and when it is the commentators (eg Tony Gibb) sometimes make derogatory comments, like here we go, there will be loads of crashes now...One of the Sporza commentators suggested that Koppenbergcross was too hard for women! Women's races are put on early in the morning before a men's race a lot of them time, when there are no spectators around, the prize money is a lot less, as are the wages.

At least women get equal TV coverage now in track cycling, hopefully road racing will got the same way too soon.

seamus

As man I find it very hard to consider this without straying into fairly sexist territory. There's no reason why women in general would be more inclined towards leisure riding than competition riding. The sweatiness/make up argument doesn't seem to stop women getting out for a run or a fast walk. I think there's a perception in some women's heads that road bikes are uncomfortable, but then that argument is in the, "All women are made of cotton and flower petals" genre. Plenty of men are under the impression that road bikes are uncomfortable too, but it doesn't stop them.

I have seen a huge rise in female commuters of late, which is great. They are less aggressive and less prone to making dumb manouvers and more likely to stop at lights. So more of that sort of thing.

I imagine the reason why so few women take up cycling at the club level is the same reason why golf clubs are so male-dominated - because there are so few women. It's a circular problem. If their friends aren't doing it and the club is 99% male, then it's going to be quite intimidating for a woman to rock up to a club on her tobler and muck in.
Same as if a man decided he wanted to join Curves.

Even as a female poster here said, she's glad when another woman shows up for a club spin. So it would seem that the reason female numbers are low, is because female numbers are low. And that's discouraging.
The solution to encouraging women to cycle is oddly enough, probably more segregation rather than less. If clubs ran women's-only spins on a semi-regular basis (twice a month or whatever), away from the usual club spins, then that could encourage more women to join in with that club. Once they're in the club and happy, they'll be happier to ride along in the "normal" club spins.

I do agree that there's a problem with the pink-ness of women's cycle clothing. The manufacturers seem to think that all female cyclists need their gear to make a statement of femininity, rather than just work. Men's clothing doesn't come emblazoned with pictures of harley-davisons or flame decals along the legs.

Lusk Doyle

Who says pink is just for women?



:pac:

bambergbike

Lusk Doyle wrote: »

Who says pink is just for women?



:pac:

Where have all the flowers gone?