Bulking Up & General Fitness

Manlord

Hi All,

Let me begin by saying that I have done a fair bit of research on this topic both here and there so i dont want to cause offence by appearing like I want the quick answer to a problem that will require time & dedication which i know you guys are well aware of.

My family circumstances have recently changed & due to that i now have more time on my hands and could do with this distraction if I'm honest. Have always been extremely fit and healthy (6ft1" & 74kg) but could only be decsribed as skinny / lean and it was always a hope of mine that i could put on muscle mass and increase strength if i had the time to do it. Having two kids and a busy work schedule never allowed me to take this on in the manner it deserved and any time I did try to start something would come up and it would fall by the wayside.

Now that i have the time i have joined up to my local gym (Westpark tallaght) and have been given a two week programme as a starter with an obvious eye to increase my workout as time moves on.

I started my food plan 2 weeks ago which consists of:

BREAKFAST

• Large bowl of porridge for breakfast c/w bananas, nuts & honey
• Wholewheat toast with some cheese etc.
• Applied nutrition critical mass shake
• Creatine with fruit juice (i'm on the loading phase now - 5 times daily for 5 days)
• Pint of water

11's

• 3 Wholewheat bread chicken, tuna, and other salad filling sandwich
• banana
• apple
• Pint of water

Lunch

• 3 Wholewheat bread chicken, tuna, and other salad filling sandwich
• Pear
• Some pre cooked pasta with ham, cheese etc
• Creatine in pint of water

Dinner

• boiled potatoes, pasta shells, carrots, broccoli, steak pieces & or chicken, peppers in a basic stir fry of sorts
• Apple/fruits c/w yogurt
• Creatine in pint of water

Snack before bed

• large bowl of porridge with honey.
• Critical mass shake with creatine added

I'd prefer to be honest in what I'm eating but have a feeling it's still not enough so any input here would be greatly appreciated in relation to my food intake but please be aware that the above is not exactly what i eat daily as i mix and match different foods but it is always the correct type of foods just not necessarily the correct amounts?????


Training

I was always a cardio man with boxing being my main event and playing soccer a very close second. i used to carve up the miles with roadwork and I have a feeling thats why i never seemed to bulk up no matter what i tried (although i never did weights) which explains it all really.

i now start off with 5-10 mins of stretching and use the crosstrainer for a gentle warmup before hitting the weights.

My programme is typically 4 sets of between 8-10 reps on maybe 8 machines (no free weights yet) and most of the machines are set to 35 - 45kg + the occasional 2.5/5kg addition using the twisty knob.

I only started back last week and found the first night fine but my recovery was almost 4 days before my arms could straighten out properly. The front part of my elbow area was a disaster the next few days. I assume this will gradually get better.

i'm not sure what to expect or target but i want to give this a good go for at least 6 months (during winter as such) to see if i can actually bulk up. My frame would be slim but toned at the same time but it needs more definition if you know what I mean.

I'm not sure what other information would give you guys a better way of offering advice or critique but feel free to ask me anything that will help or point me in the right direction to help me achieve my targets.

P.S. My days of training are primarily Sun,Mon,Tues,Wed (days i am definitely free) but I can make any day i want with a little jiggling of family affairs. The reason i ask this is that I'm not sure what is best for training V recovery period.

thanks in advance & i appreciate you taking the time to read this.

EDIT: Not sure if it matters but i have been 74kg's since I was 16 and now I'm 30. I never move off 74kg's no matter what i eat, drink or sleep with:p

googled eyes

There are people here who are better qualified to reply to you. I'll just say if you have a smart phone get a calorie counting/food diary app. I use myfitnesspal.
Then keep filling what your eating. While you may feel like your eating lots. Some of it may not be very calorific. At least with the app you can see what you calories add up to each day.
Also if you set a goal weight it will alter you calories for the day
I can't say anything about your elbow, maybe you over did it and its just very sore DOMS but if it's causing pain while your lift or pushing I'd be careful.

colman1212

Hey man, I was always skinny. Was about 72 kg @ 5ft 10 before I started lifting weights and was really weak. Bulked up as far as 89.5kg and have since cut bodyfat and currently sit at around 82kg @ around 12% body fat.
Squat 130kg, deadlift 190kg, bench 100kg.
When trying to bulk I suggest just doing about 3 weight sessions a week. I did starting strength which you can google. Starting strength is great for getting strong and packing on weight. It probably does neglect a few areas in terms of development, hamstrings, upper back, arms but these are things you can always focus on later.

In terms of diet, i would be surprised if you dont put on weight using the above diet. It seems very carb heavy to me. I would add fish, eggs, nuts, avocados instead of all the bread pasta etc. Milk is your friend when trying to bulk but you will put on some fat too. Stay away from the cardio too. Best of luck mate.

Manlord

googled eyes wrote: »

There are people here who are better qualified to reply to you. I'll just say if you have a smart phone get a calorie counting/food diary app. I use myfitnesspal.
Then keep filling what your eating. While you may feel like your eating lots. Some of it may not be very calorific. At least with the app you can see what you calories add up to each day.
Also if you set a goal weight it will alter you calories for the day
I can't say anything about your elbow, maybe you over did it and its just very sore DOMS but if it's causing pain while your lift or pushing I'd be careful.

Thanks for the reply & I added that app straight away and have just finished giving all my details.

it says that if my target weight (1lb a week increase) is to be reached then i need to consume roughly 2840cals a day. From adding all the items I have listed above inc supplements I should be achieving roughly 3276cals so looks like it should work out well. it looks like a very good app actually and the feedback is quite impressive currently with that getting more detailed as i log my diet and workouts. Thanks again for that.

It also says that at that current level of food I should weight roughly 78.3kgs in 5 weeks (with my weight training)

colman1212 wrote: »

Hey man, I was always skinny. Was about 72 kg @ 5ft 10 before I started lifting weights and was really weak. Bulked up as far as 89.5kg and have since cut bodyfat and currently sit at around 82kg @ around 12% body fat.
Squat 130kg, deadlift 190kg, bench 100kg.
When trying to bulk I suggest just doing about 3 weight sessions a week. I did starting strength which you can google. Starting strength is great for getting strong and packing on weight. It probably does neglect a few areas in terms of development, hamstrings, upper back, arms but these are things you can always focus on later.

In terms of diet, i would be surprised if you dont put on weight using the above diet. It seems very carb heavy to me. I would add fish, eggs, nuts, avocados instead of all the bread pasta etc. Milk is your friend when trying to bulk but you will put on some fat too. Stay away from the cardio too. Best of luck mate.

thanks for that mate.

As mentioned previously the above diet was a typical day but fish, eggs, nuts etc etc are being mixed and matched as main dinner & snacks along with different fillings for sandwiches and the likes.

appreciate the advice & feedback gents.

EDIT: In relation to the carb heavy comment - thats exactly what i want as I was told that I need almost twice as much carbs as I do protein due to my type of body (Ectomorph)

will56

OP, is that food diary a reflection of what you eat every day ?
As a former skinny I've learned to watch my weekly calorie intake as much as my daily.
Its all well and good eating over your maintenance calories during the week, but if you don't make sure to follow through at the weekend you won't see progress.

Also make sure to pick a day and time to weigh yourself each week so you're most likely to get an accurate reading.
I generally pick a weekday, and first thing in the morning.

Consistency is the key

Manlord

will56 wrote: »

OP, is that food diary a reflection of what you eat every day ?
As a former skinny I've learned to watch my weekly calorie intake as much as my daily.
Its all well and good eating over your maintenance calories during the week, but if you don't make sure to follow through at the weekend you won't see progress.

Also make sure to pick a day and time to weigh yourself each week so you're most likely to get an accurate reading.
I generally pick a weekday, and first thing in the morning.

Consistency is the key

Hi Will,

Firstly congrats on being a "former skinny":P

Yes that would be a typical daily food plan & I will certainly be doing this each and every day (weekends included) for at least 6 months just to see what I can achieve. I'm not sure about the Creatine or the Critical mass supplements as a continued form of my plan but I'll just have to see how i go.

I plan to weight myself on a Monday at the gym just before the workout each week. My home scales are rubbish:(

Thanks for your comment;)

will56

Manlord, out of curiosity, what portion of your calories does the critical mass shakes make up ?

No need for the loading phase with the creatine, no noticeable benefit and you'll just end up using it quicker.

Manlord

will56 wrote: »

Manlord, out of curiosity, what portion of your calories does the critical mass shakes make up ?

No need for the loading phase with the creatine, no noticeable benefit and you'll just end up using it quicker.

i'll reduce it to 3 times a day for the moment then and twice a day starting Monday.

That's a very good question about the Critcal mass. It says its 382cals per 100g and a shake requires 4 scoops of 50g so i make that 1528 cals a day from the shakes. I'll need to increase my food intake dramatically if I do decide to stop taking the supplement

thoughts?

will56

Cheaper and tastier to get those calories from food.
To quote colman1212 eggs, nuts, fish are all good bulking foods.
I'd also add, greek yoghurt, nut butters milk.

There is a thread for homemade protein bars that are tasty and a handy way to get the calories in.

This was posted by nilster in the built like a badass thread.
"a tub of full-fat greek-style yogurt, a whole jar of all natural almond butter, and 7 scoops/servings of chocolate protein powder (same stuff I use for my post-workout drink) into a stand mixer and whirl it all up. Also a 1/2 tsp. of cinnamon for flavor. This comes to about seven 8oz. servings a week, or one small jelly jar full per day. The breakdown is roughly 650 calories per serving, 40% protein, 40% fat, 20% carbs "

A tub of Greek yoghurt is 750 calories and €1 in Aldi. I generally have 1/2 a tub with a LARGE spoonful of peanut butter and some jam or flavoured protein for taste.

Whole foods are much more satisfying and cheaper when on a bulking diet.

Manlord

will56 wrote: »

Cheaper and tastier to get those calories from food.
To quote colman1212 eggs, nuts, fish are all good bulking foods.
I'd also add, greek yoghurt, nut butters milk.

There is a thread for homemade protein bars that are tasty and a handy way to get the calories in.

This was posted by nilster in the built like a badass thread.
"a tub of full-fat greek-style yogurt, a whole jar of all natural almond butter, and 7 scoops/servings of chocolate protein powder (same stuff I use for my post-workout drink) into a stand mixer and whirl it all up. Also a 1/2 tsp. of cinnamon for flavor. This comes to about seven 8oz. servings a week, or one small jelly jar full per day. The breakdown is roughly 650 calories per serving, 40% protein, 40% fat, 20% carbs "

A tub of Greek yoghurt is 750 calories and €1 in Aldi. I generally have 1/2 a tub with a LARGE spoonful of peanut butter and some jam or flavoured protein for taste.

Whole foods are much more satisfying and cheaper when on a bulking diet.

gentleman, thanks.

googled eyes

Nuts are great for healthy calories. I eat cashews and almonds almost every day plus peanut butter.
Greek yogurt is great for adding to a post work out drink.

Im at a place now where i can easily take in 2500-3000 calories of (mostly healthy) food a day before adding whey protein in my post work out drink. That is about 1000 more than i would have been eating before i made the change.

Manlord

Weekly update.

Weighed myself tonight at the same time as last week on the same digital scales in the gym. 74.1kg last week & now 77.2kg. Had another good workout in fairness and the weights seemed so light tonight I actually thought the first machine I was on had broken. It hadnt and I was just working away. The real question will be what my recovery time will be like but very happy so far I have to say.

Loading phase is over with creatine so just down to 2 a day. Got the greek yogurt too so cheers for that.

Manlord

Incase anyone finds it useful -

2 weeks on & currently 79.8kg

Very happy with the results so far and body just seems to be bulking & toning.

what I was looking for so very happy with that.

rolexeagle1

you put on 2+ kg's in a week??

Manlord

srumball wrote: »

you put on 2+ kg's in a week??

Not quite mate

4 weeks in and I'm 5.7 kgs up.

The first increase was the biggest 3.1kg and then 2.6kg so it's increasing but the rate of increase is reducing.

Remember i'm a total noobie when it comes to weights and the gym but have to say i'm going at it full tilt and I am eating, eating, eating.

The scales dont lie!

Oregano_State

Looks like you're doing pretty well.

Are you following the starting strength program so?


Compound lifts, ie squats, deadlifts, bench and barbell rows are the way to go.

rolexeagle1

Manlord wrote: »

Not quite mate

4 weeks in and I'm 5.7 kgs up.

The first increase was the biggest 3.1kg and then 2.6kg so it's increasing but the rate of increase is reducing.

Remember i'm a total noobie when it comes to weights and the gym but have to say i'm going at it full tilt and I am eating, eating, eating.

The scales dont lie!

good stuff! looking to do the same, great to see someone getting such good results!

Manlord

Oregano_State wrote: »

Looks like you're doing pretty well.

Are you following the starting strength program so?


Compound lifts, ie squats, deadlifts, bench and barbell rows are the way to go.

Thanks mate. I've only been doing the machines so far but plan to hit free weights January. Wanted to gradually build up to them. I'm lifting/using probably 15kg more than I was when i started.

srumball wrote: »

good stuff! looking to do the same, great to see someone getting such good results!

Thanks mate.

I think the key is eating to gain the weight & working out to tone the weight

googled eyes

Really sounds like your doing great. ;-)
Well done.

perses10

look for 300 grms protein ,400 grms carbs preferably from oats or sweet potatoes ( slow digesting) daily , lift heavy and hard but your gonna need eat big bro to grow ,i wouldnt go into weight gainers eat natural peanut butter 200 cals tbl spoon good fats and creatine its only storein water in muscle save your money for food that protein is expensive ,get scales weigh your food start seein how much protein,carbs ,fats,your takin in ,total calories lookin at your diet im guessin 170 grms protein max not enough ,gotta bump it up ,keep sugars low inc fruit ,fish,chicken,beef,eggs thats you all day

RidleyRider

perses10 wrote: »

look for 300 grms protein ,400 grms carbs preferably from oats or sweet potatoes ( slow digesting) daily , lift heavy and hard but your gonna need eat big bro to grow ,i wouldnt go into weight gainers eat natural peanut butter 200 cals tbl spoon good fats and creatine its only storein water in muscle save your money for food that protein is expensive ,get scales weigh your food start seein how much protein,carbs ,fats,your takin in ,total calories lookin at your diet im guessin 170 grms protein max not enough ,gotta bump it up ,keep sugars low inc fruit ,fish,chicken,beef,eggs thats you all day

300 grams of protein during the day?

Mr Olympia, Phil Heath consumes 300-400grams a day and he's a pro bodybuilder!

Linky; http://metrx.com.ro/PDFs/Phil%20Heath%20Workout.pdf

perses10

trust me those guys are on alot more than 300grms protein ,id say 600 grms in a 6,000 calorie daily diet ,even when im cutting il keep my protein 250 ,300 and il eat every 2 to 3 hours ,you can put in as much time as you want in gym but the kitchen where its won bro,

RidleyRider

perses10 wrote: »

trust me those guys are on alot more than 300grms protein ,id say 600 grms in a 6,000 calorie daily diet ,even when im cutting il keep my protein 250 ,300 and il eat every 2 to 3 hours ,you can put in as much time as you want in gym but the kitchen where its won bro,

I'd believe that they are at certain times of the year but look at the muscle they're body has to maintain. Average Joe's simply don't eat 300grams of protein. I physically couldn't without getting sick.

On an average day, what meals do you eat? Will you put up simply what you ate today?

perses10

100 grms oats 2 scoops whey = 50 grms protein / 2 tins tuna and spinach = 70 grms protein / 200 grms chicken and brocili =66 grms protein/ 2 scoops whey and water =50 grms protein ,/200 grms ground beef onions mushrooms =58 grms protein /cottage cheese and pineapple 30 grms protein / thats roughly how i eat ,i prepeare my food the night before and basically live outta tubberware ,your lookin at roughly 324 grms protein ,iv not got my calorie counter but it wont be far off ,and with so little sugars in this diet you wont feel sluggish ,well personally this works for me,meat and green veg ,usually 6 meals but sometimes i snack on greek yougort and whey its like dessert for me ,and il usually eat eggs like omletts or scrambeled ,no bread and only complex carbs

RidleyRider

perses10 wrote: »

100 grms oats 2 scoops whey = 50 grms protein / 2 tins tuna and spinach = 70 grms protein / 200 grms chicken and brocili =66 grms protein/ 2 scoops whey and water =50 grms protein ,/200 grms ground beef onions mushrooms =58 grms protein /cottage cheese and pineapple 30 grms protein / thats roughly how i eat ,i prepeare my food the night before and basically live outta tubberware ,your lookin at roughly 324 grms protein ,iv not got my calorie counter but it wont be far off ,and with so little sugars in this diet you wont feel sluggish ,well personally this works for me,meat and green veg ,usually 6 meals but sometimes i snack on greek yougort and whey its like dessert for me ,and il usually eat eggs like omletts or scrambeled ,no bread and only complex carbs

That's some good eating. Especially if you can afford to keep yourself in whey protein:p Then again, cooking the meals before hand instead of having to cook them all individually and that would put you off eating. A lot easier to stick lots of food in the oven rather than one or two things.

And its easier do one big wash up rather than lots of little ones:p Saves fairy liquid:L

perses10

i hear ya bro im religous about how and when i eat ,i love food nutrition and traning its very selfish and addictive hobby but thats what i love to 2 do i dont expect most people to do or try this diet its hard in many ways but if you want to grow and remove yourself from the masses eat big

RidleyRider

perses10 wrote: »

i hear ya bro im religous about how and when i eat ,i love food nutrition and traning its very selfish and addictive hobby but thats what i love to 2 do i dont expect most people to do or try this diet its hard in many ways but if you want to grow and remove yourself from the masses eat big

True true. Eat big as long as its the right types of food! What weight and body fat % are you?

perses10

im 5'8 190 lbs about 9% bf currently cutting , im gonna bulk after christmas hope to gain 15 lbs lean mass in 5 months , iv been 210 lbs but looked terrible to much carbs ,stored to much water now id rather keep it lean , you ?

RidleyRider

perses10 wrote: »

im 5'8 190 lbs about 9% bf currently cutting , im gonna bulk after christmas hope to gain 15 lbs lean mass in 5 months , iv been 210 lbs but looked terrible to much carbs ,stored to much water now id rather keep it lean , you ?

Cool cool. Tipped in this evening at 72.5kg. Trying to get up to between 78-80kg. Haven't done my body fat in a while but last time it was 10%. Want that to come down too but while bulking I'll let it go a little.

Considering cutting out creatine, read a lot about how yes it builds mass- but makes your body retain a lot of water. The wrong kind of mass.

perses10

im sure you will get to where you want to be and 10% bf is a great starting place for any bulk you wanna start ,good job on the bf ,il simplify things with cutting and bulking ,bulk 400 to 500 grms carbs and 300 grms protein and cutting 100 grms carbs 250 to 300 grms protein if you hit these marks consisstantly and train hard your body will be forced to grow it all depends on how much you want it and how you see yourself as an individual its hard to build and retain muscle alot of effort ,train like demon,eat like a king and sleep like a baby

Hanley

RidleyRider wrote: »

I'd believe that they are at certain times of the year but look at the muscle they're body has to maintain. Average Joe's simply don't eat 300grams of protein. I physically couldn't without getting sick.

On an average day, what meals do you eat? Will you put up simply what you ate today?

Breakfast:
250ml yoghurt, 30g oats, 25g protein
4 eggs w/ 75g ham

Lunch:
450g chicken, cheeese, bacon, fried egg, onion strings, mixed salad

Post workout:
25g protein
850kcal worth of walnuts/cashews/almonds

Dinner:
250g chicken w/ tikka sauce

Dinner2:
200g bacon w/ potato and turnip

Snacks:
2x protein bars
2x chocolate digestives

That's about 4,000kcal, 320g protein, <150g carbs and 185g fat. Feel pretty tbh.

RidleyRider

Hanley wrote: »

Breakfast:
250ml yoghurt, 30g oats, 25g protein
4 eggs w/ 75g ham

Lunch:
450g chicken, cheeese, bacon, fried egg, onion strings, mixed salad

Post workout:
25g protein
850kcal worth of walnuts/cashews/almonds

Dinner:
250g chicken w/ tikka sauce

Dinner2:
200g bacon w/ potato and turnip

Snacks:
2x protein bars
2x chocolate digestives

That's about 4,000kcal, 320g protein, <150g carbs and 185g fat. Feel pretty tbh.

That seems like a handy enough diet now that's its layed out like that.

Hanley

RidleyRider wrote: »

That seems like a handy enough diet now that's its layed out like that.

the 450g chicken at lunch is by far the hardest part. Easy enough to drop it back to 300ish g and just lob a scoop of protein in

RidleyRider

Hanley wrote: »

the 450g chicken at lunch is by far the hardest part. Easy enough to drop it back to 300ish g and just lob a scoop of protein in

I think if I was eating that diet I'd comfortably get through the chicken but its the greens and that I'd fall down on. Have a great tolerance for eating meat but its the carbs that kill me.

perses10

nuts are great way to bump up those cals ,thanks for posting it up

Theresalwaysone

Hanley wrote: »

Breakfast:
250ml yoghurt, 30g oats, 25g protein
4 eggs w/ 75g ham

Lunch:
450g chicken, cheeese, bacon, fried egg, onion strings, mixed salad

Post workout:
25g protein
850kcal worth of walnuts/cashews/almonds

Dinner:
250g chicken w/ tikka sauce

Dinner2:
200g bacon w/ potato and turnip

Snacks:
2x protein bars
2x chocolate digestives

That's about 4,000kcal, 320g protein, <150g carbs and 185g fat. Feel pretty tbh.

This is sweet. Im currently trying to get stronger and finding it a beautiful existence eating all around me (not really but it feels like it).

Im going:

Breakfast:
3Poached Eggs, 3 Slices of Bacon.

Snack:
Protein Shake with Milk and some fish oil tabs.

Lunch:
Some sort of Fish and Chicken with hard boiled eggs and different salads and cheese. Potato salad/Rice salad etc.

Snack:
nuts nuts nuts

Dinner:
Fried/Baked Fish with lots of veggies and 3 eggs.

Snack:
Shake with Milk and some peanut butter!

Occasionally I'll just eat whatever I want.
Not as big as you and I don't know the exact calorie count of all that but I tend to just eat when hungry and have been slowly consistently building strength so far.

Hanley

Breakfast number 3 of the day for me, struggling to get it down... That's 850kcal of nuts (150g), a protein shake, 4 eggs w/ 100g of ham, and some bread (OMG YES I DID!!!)

RidleyRider

Hanley wrote: »

Breakfast number 3 of the day for me, struggling to get it down... That's 850kcal of nuts (150g), a protein shake, 4 eggs w/ 100g of ham, and some bread (OMG YES I DID!!!)

Here I am sitting eating my 150 grams of almonds....

That's a rel tough looking breakfast to get through. Especially the nuts and bread!

Hanley

RidleyRider wrote: »

Here I am sitting eating my 150 grams of almonds....

That's a rel tough looking breakfast to get through. Especially the nuts and bread!

I've already had a scoop of protein, 30g of oats and 125ml of yoghurt @ 5.30am, and 3 eggs w/ bacon at 9.30am.

Literally slumped over the table here pawing the last of the nuts into my mouth. It feels so miserable!!!

Training's easy. Eating's hard.

EDIT: the bread was the easy part, pretty much melts and immediately digests in my mouth

RidleyRider

Hanley wrote: »

Training's easy. Eating's hard.

+1 to that.

Nuts are so difficult to get down!

Hanley

RidleyRider wrote: »

+1 to that.

Nuts are so difficult to get down!

Yeah... really hard to get the nuts in your mouth.




















......HIYO!

RidleyRider

Hanley wrote: »

Yeah... really hard to get the nuts in your mouth.




















......HIYO!

Caught by the nuts there..:P

Manlord

Hi gents,

Some good feedback there and at a minimum gives me another type of food plan to mix and match to which is handy as it does get difficult to sustain the same type of foods daily.

Weighted myself last night 81.5Kgs and again not a pick of fat anywhere to be seen. It's all toning up quite well and i'm off the creatine for the last week and will continue that for another 3 weeks before starting again for 3 weeks.

I'm noticing bulk on my shoulders, arms and chest and major definition on my abs as I have been working that area hard.

I do feel slightly more slugish (not slow but not as fast as I used to be) but i suppose that comes with the added mass.

My weight training has also increased in weight :rolleyes: and I seem to be following an upward linear trend which is all I was after.

Ok well thanks for the comments and opinion - its very helpful and may the Mass be with you:p