CM Punk Thread *2012 Edition*

Lord TSC

Punk tweeted...

CM Punk@CMPunk
Yes, I will be on @AMCTalkingDead on Sunday. Shocking how WWE didn't promote it or get AMC the proper materials in time to announce it.

This makes me very....VERY happy

EDIT: ****, just re-read it and noticed it's a T and not a W. Wanted him in the proper show, not the post-show analysis...

starviewadams

He's a moany little cúnt,he gets all these outside things without letting WWE know(which he seems to take great pleasure from),and then complains when they don't promote it enough or to his liking.

jaykhunter

Talking Dead? That show can suck it. There's a ~5m Walking Dead 'making of' video accoutrement after every episode with the cast/producers etc which is much better.

Handsome Bob

Report on Problems Between CM Punk and WWE Going Into WrestleMania Season

By Marc Middleton on 11/21/2012
- We covered on Tuesday how WWE Champion CM Punk complained on Twitter that WWE wasn't promoting his appearance on Sunday's episode of Talking Dead, basically the Walking Dead post-show, or his Thanksgiving Day Parade appearance in Chicago.

PWInsider reports that there has been a major disconnect within the relationship between Punk and WWE over the past few weeks. It was originally reported that John Cena was the one who spoke out at Vince McMahon backstage and told him the product needed major changes because it was in bad shape. PWInsider reports that other people are saying it was Punk who spoke out.

There's a feeling that WWE is doing Punk wrong because he has held the WWE Title for over a year now and is still not featured on the promotional material for WrestleMania 29. There's also some concern about how Punk will react if The Rock does actually take the WWE Title from him at Royal Rumble. Some feel that if Punk isn't treated right during WrestleMania season, then there will be "hell to pay."

It's said that Punk has some pull in developmental, nowhere near the level of Triple H or someone like that, but Punk has gone in and told them they should push this guy or hire this guy. Punk is expected to be a big focus of the NXT storyline invasion in the coming months.

Source: PWInsider

http://www.pwpix.net/pwpixnews/headlines/355512939.php

DM_7

Anything leaked at this time of year is likely part of a mania set up. Punk and Heyman keep having run ins with Vince (about his treatment from Vince!) on screen so I wouldn't be surprised to see something between them at Mania.

If Punk was really causing bother I am sure he would have been put back in his place by now. Ryback could have squashed him in the cell (like when Taker squashed him in the cell), Vince wouldn't think twice about removing Heyman from his current role wither to take Punk down a notch.

GTR63

Rock is getting the belt too I reckon. How they'll handle that reign would be interesting.

starviewadams

Hell to pay?will he threaten to quit,again?he's not done too well buy rate and ratings wise as champion and he's been given a year's title reign,plus they've given him Heyman as a manager,so he can't come out with his usual excuse of being overlooked/not given an opportunity or whatever.

He doesn't really have any right to complain about his treatment,especially if Cena or Rock beat him for the title before Mania.He's getting idea's above his station by the sound of things.

Handsome Bob

DM-ICE has a point but to be honest, if it's true, I wouldn't blame him for being slightly pissed. Yes he has had the title for a year but when I look back over the year and his feuds, they've kind of blew the momentum he initially had. I can't think of one feud that made me think "yeah, that was great, and Punk only came out of it stronger." This Ryback feud is just the culmination of the manure that has been shoveled his way.

Ironically, for all the stick he takes, Cena has been the only one that seems to genuinely want to make Punk a bonafide top superstar.

Machismo Fan

Where does Punk rank among the worst WWE champions business wise?

JP Liz V1

If we dont get SCSA V Punk at WM 29 I would be happy for Punk V HHH maybe have Vince and Heyman in their respective corners

DM_7

Machismo Fan wrote: »

Where does Punk rank among the worst WWE champions business wise?

What do you mean by Business?

The financials are pretty similar to last year, PPV buys are up but TV ratings are down since the three hour RAW show started.

Since WWE license out the programming for a fee and make no extra money from higher ratings so not sure how that is factored in.

Financially they have generated slightly less money as they had one less video game and less movie revenue.

Lord TSC

starviewadams wrote: »

He's a moany little cúnt,he gets all these outside things without letting WWE know(which he seems to take great pleasure from),and then complains when they don't promote it enough or to his liking.

You'd nearly think he was trying to get people not to like him on Twitter, what with all the moaning and crying about the lack of respect. Almost as if he was in character

jaykhunter

Flawless logic if said stroppy c**t wasn't like that every day heel or face!! Watching his DVD, he's so judgemental and condescending. Hey, if you don't get tattoos of your friends/family, you don't love them. Well not like I do. I don't know him and am by no means on corporate WWE's side but I can see how difficult it would be to push someone so condescending and abrasive. It's like inviting some d**k you hate to your birthday party because other people like him.

JP Liz V1

I'm sure if it was USA Network show like Psych for example it would be promoted

Mr.Nice Guy

They've given him plenty this year imo. Brutal truth is Cena is still a bigger star than him and Rock certainly is. So too is Lesnar and also Undertaker when he returns. His only hope of being in the main event of Mania is by working with one of these guys (or Austin), whereas they could easily main event with or without him.

starviewadams

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

You'd nearly think he was trying to get people not to like him on Twitter, what with all the moaning and crying about the lack of respect. Almost as if he was in character

He's never going to be a bigger star then he already is,that's why I'd imagine WWE aren't too arsed about promoting his comic books,or his TV guest spots.

It's the same type of moaning he does on his DVD about Miz having the temerity to main event Wrestlemania ahead of him,or about WWE firing his useless mates.He's a ''moody prick'' as Michael Hayes so eloquently put it.

Just gets on my nerves sometimes!

DM_7

Of course Cena is a bigger star. Nothing wrong with being the number two guy in wrestling. Rock is a bigger star than any of the people listed there. Even Rock, when a regular was a lesser star than a broken, beaten down Hulk Hogan.

Punk has however surpassed everyone else that was ahead of him (excluding Cena) on the permanent Roster. All things considered he has done very well to get to where he is now. At the top of the card, main eventing TV, PPV, House shows.

Stone Cold was a bigger star than HBK but that doesn't take anything away from how good HBK was. Why play down Punks achievements over the past 18 months?

Gone from the second tier where he feuded with the bigger stars but always lost and was always booked weak against people like Orton (see Del Rio) to a one year WWE champion. Seems like a pretty good place to reach.

Mr.Nice Guy

Well there's nothing wrong with being number two amongst the modern crop but this is a pretty weak crop it must be said. Who were the previous number two guys before now? Orton maybe? Batista? Hardly huge draws or stars in the grand scheme of things.

Punk's complaints seem to stem around having to play second fiddle to the already established guys of the past - his complaint about Rock getting the Mania spot last year for instance - but the harsh truth is Punk has played second fiddle to these guys in 2012 because that's where he is. Lesnar main events PPVs and not Punk, because he's a bigger deal. So is Rock and the other guys.

What annoys me is that if Rock beats Punk at the Rumble I bet not only him but all his buddies backstage will be moaning and complaining - I recall Meltzer talking about how this was happening prior to this year's Mania - and to me it's ridiculous because I would far prefer a PPV with Rock on the show, or the other guys I mentioned, than Punk and judging by the numbers I think most fans feel that way.

the groutch

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Punk's complaints seem to stem around having to play second fiddle to the already established guys of the past - his complaint about Rock getting the Mania spot last year for instance - but the harsh truth is Punk has played second fiddle to these guys in 2012 because that's where he is.

I think his gripe is very much like Cena's kayfabe one against Rock, turning up to do one or two matches a year, collect the paycheque and running off, while he works his ass off 300+ days a year.

rovert

starviewadams wrote: »

Hell to pay?will he threaten to quit,again?he's not done too well buy rate and ratings wise as champion and he's been given a year's title reign,plus they've given him Heyman as a manager,so he can't come out with his usual excuse of being overlooked/not given an opportunity or whatever.

Nowhere in this paragraph do you mention creative or the head wind from the 3rd hour of Raw being added. Punk has drawn some great quarter hours and his mercnadise has sold well. Blaming him for buyrates is weird as he has spent most of the last year not in them however when he has like Hell in the Cell it did very well apparently.

WWE doesn't see him as a non-draw if they did they would have had no problem in sending him away to do the two WWE films she was scheduled for. But they couldn't as they needed him on the road.

starviewadams wrote: »

He doesn't really have any right to complain about his treatment,especially if Cena or Rock beat him for the title before Mania.He's getting idea's above his station by the sound of things.

That's ridiculous he is the one working house shows every week and will be the one still there when the Rock goes back to Hollywood.

starviewadams wrote: »

It's the same type of moaning he does on his DVD about Miz having the temerity to main event Wrestlemania ahead of him,or about WWE firing his useless mates

How are Gallows and Cabana useless.

Punk's mates are Cesaro, Ohno, Del Ray etc too by the way.

jaykhunter

Do you think if featured as the main guy, and Punk did all the extracurricular commitments Cena did, would Punk draw more than Cena? Like, is he capable of being a bigger star than Cena? (tbh I think WWE should get to try him out, the worst is going back to the status quo)...

Lesnar's a short-term deal so they're right to make the most of his matches (although they haven't) and IMO Punk will never be as big a star as the Rock even if pushed to the moon. Punk's a great talker, very intelligent and cutting, but can he entertain and bottom line, get people to part with their cash over others?

GTR63

I still always forget that Cabana was in wwe and that Miz actually main evented Mania.
Punk is as big as he's ever going to get now. Main eventing Mania won't make him any bigger imo.

jaykhunter

The thrust/motivation of his character is that he himself is insecure in his inferiority. Hopefully his character can turn a corner and enjoy his success instead of being stroppy about his position. When he believes and is booked like the top banana hopefully the fans will think higher of him and ascend to the real pinnacle. At the moment he's a higher than Chris Jericho/Foley level, he's still got a level to go in the company.

D.Q

jaykhunter wrote: »

Do you think if featured as the main guy, and Punk did all the extracurricular commitments Cena did, would Punk draw more than Cena? Like, is he capable of being a bigger star than Cena? (tbh I think WWE should get to try him out, the worst is going back to the status quo)...

Nah, he just doesn't have 'it'. That intangible quality that the megastars have. Hes too small really. He has a pretty poor look. Cena is pure American hero. Rock is a movie star and Austin looks like a tough bastard.Punk looks like he'd sell you drugs.

I would much prefer to see any of those in a main event, than the likes of Punk, Jericho etc.

he doesnt really have the connection that the others have with the crowd, with the exception of that one night in Chicago, but come on.

and on top of all that he's a whiny little prick. Talking about how he saw his dad get sick after drinking beer, "thats real life ya know" as if its this horrendous story.

The stuff with the fans really irks me too, how dare he treat these people like that. They are allowing him to be paid a ridiculous amount of money to pretend fight in front of thousands of people every night and he has the audacity to complain. Go on back to the indies then, if ya cant handle the fan base.

gnfnrhead

If he really is pissed off about something (again), he has virtually no argument this time. He has been given damn near everything this past 12 to 18 months. The only thing he is missing is a Wrestlemania main event but he isn't (and won't ever be) a big enough name for that unless WWE are really short on numbers one year. For Wrestlemania, Cena, Lesnar, Rock, Triple H and Undertaker are all ahead of him. You could maybe argue Orton too. If you count Austin, he is too.

Punk is in a better position than he was, but it's as good as it is going to get for him. He will never reach the same level as Cena (and is almost the same age) but very few people ever will. If he does drop the title to Rock and ends up sulking about it, it could be a while before he gets it back as I don't think WWE will be too pushed to give him it back if he reacts in such a negative way.

Basically, he has nothing to be upset about.

J. Marston

gnfnrhead wrote: »

If he really is pissed off about something (again), he has virtually no argument this time. He has been given damn near everything this past 12 to 18 months. The only thing he is missing is a Wrestlemania main event but he isn't (and won't ever be) a big enough name for that unless WWE are really short on numbers one year. For Wrestlemania, Cena, Lesnar, Rock, Triple H and Undertaker are all ahead of him. You could maybe argue Orton too. If you count Austin, he is too.

Punk is in a better position than he was, but it's as good as it is going to get for him. He will never reach the same level as Cena (and is almost the same age) but very few people ever will. If he does drop the title to Rock and ends up sulking about it, it could be a while before he gets it back as I don't think WWE will be too pushed to give him it back if he reacts in such a negative way.

Basically, he has nothing to be upset about.

He'll find something.

jaykhunter

Don't get me wrong, he's great on the mic and is a great storyteller in the ring but he's nowhere as good as he bangs on about. His constant whining compared to model employee Cena gets a bit tiresome...

On another point, WWE shoot themselves in the foot, constantly referencing and glamourising the Attitude Era, obviously it's stars are going to be put above today's, they keep telling you that it is. And whenever something decent comes along it's branded "Attitudinal" (aka this was good enough to be in the Attitude Era)! How are today's stars going to combat that? I know business was in the dumps in the New Gen Era but at least they were building new stars and not pining for a decade earlier.

rovert

gnfnrhead wrote: »

If he does drop the title to Rock and ends up sulking about it, it could be a while before he gets it back as I don't think WWE will be too pushed to give him it back if he reacts in such a negative way.

The squeaky wheel gets the grease in WWE. So I don't agree with that.

gnfnrhead wrote: »

Basically, he has nothing to be upset about.

I disagree with that for reasons already stated.

J. Marston wrote: »

He'll find something.

I am really starting to roll my eyes at the thrust of this thread. People are acting he has been emphasised on top of the card all year. He hasn't so much so they made a storyline out of it. A lot of the issues he has with the company are the same you lads mention in every thread besides this one - a totally inept creative team and zero long term planning.

Find me a Wrestler besides Cena he works as hard and does as much media work as Cena. Punk should be a big part of the Wrestlemania promotional material and WWE's promotional time in general. If you were in his shoes you would feel the same way.

A Primal Nut

I actually think if the The Rock didn't come back this year, Punk-Jericho would have headlined WrestleMania, either that or a Punk-Cena rematch, so I don't agree that he isn't big enough to headline WrestleMania.

He's just unlucky that for biggest years of his career (this one and next) the Rock and Brock Lesnar came back.

That said, if Stone Cold came back for one match, an Austin-Punk WrestleMania main event is a no brainer. Personally I would have Punk-Rock headline WrestleMania next year, although the insiders suggest it's not planned.

He shouldn't have any gripes about losing the title to The Rock. He'll have held it for 14 months by that stage!

DM_7

I should add to my earlier comments and say Punk has turned himself into the No 1 heel in wrestling so well done to that.

Punks increased profile and importance has to be measured withing the context of where he was before. He wasn't even the top guy on Smackdown. He spent most of his time in matches with little time to get his character across on the mic. Spent most of his time losing to likes of Rey and Orton.

I don't see how Punk's 'position' behind Rock, Brock, Cena even Taker in the mass appeal stakes is a problem. I already gave the HBK example as a guy who was at the top but never reached the above levels of appeal.

HBK, Bret Hart are two people that got to the top when the Roster was weak as well - does that take anything away from them? If it does take something away does it really matter, everyone that WWE push and give that chance get it because they had something WWE needed that the rest of the roster couldn't give them.

Punk publicly complained about Rock returning and the people who were working day in day out getting pushed aside. He was right.

It could be argued that if they put the same time into promoting two regular roster members facing off at Mania and used Rock lower on the card as an attraction it would see better results over the year.

this year if wrestlers complain about Cena being the only regular on the mania promotion material for similar reasons as above they would be right.

Sometimes complaining and making your point consistently sees some results. Last time Rock appeared on WWE TV he interacted with Daniel Bryan and CM Punk before getting taken out and suffering a GTS by Punk so at least the profile is getting shared around. That in itself is a good indication of how well those two guys did in the last year or so, two lads WWE don't regard as WWE made like Cena, Orton, Sheamus but still managed to jump the line of people dying to get some screen time with Rock.

Last thing, no matter what he does he won't Get to Cena's level. Cena has years of being pushed and at the top of the card behind him. If Punk was 26 he might be able to do something to push him but as it is he would never be able to catch up on today's Hulk Hogan. I doubt he ever expected to reach that sort of level in the stardom stakes.

rovert

According to the Figure 4 Weekly newsletter Punk's opponent for Mania might be the Undertaker and he may retain the title at the Rumble:

Ready for the latest WrestleMania rumors? At TV this week, now that Punk retained the title and is almost certainly heading to Rumble to face the Rock, a scenario being discussed was for Punk to actually beat Rock and retain the title. Rock vs. Cena II at WrestleMania would then be a non-title match. It was interesting when Rock signed for yet another movie, Hercules, and when we asked WWE if this would interfere with WrestleMania season we were told that no, they would work around it. Originally, Rock was going to win the title and then defend it at WrestleMania against John Cena. That could, of course, still happen. I do know that a few weeks ago there were discussions about how to handle that situation since Rock winning the title would mean no WWE title matches at any house shows for almost three months, plus there was the issue of whether he was going to defend the title at or work on the Elimination Chamber PPV. Not giving him the title would solve that problem. I know it probably sounds ridiculous that the company would consider title matches at house shows that big of a deal here in 2012, but the reality is that one of the main reasons there are two top singles titles right now (WWE and World) and they haven't unified them is because there is a feeling that you have to have a World/WWE title match closing all the house shows. The scenario if Punk retained would be that he would go to WrestleMania and have his planned match with Undertaker, though I guess to put the finish a little more in doubt it would be title vs. streak.

We can confirm that WWE spoke with Undertaker this week and he's "on board for a high-profile match."

Obviously plans change all the time etc

DM_7

I was thinking they could do Rock v Brock v Cena for the WWE title and maybe Punk v Taker. At this stage getting any match v Taker might be the most Punk dream of expecially when he is probably going to have faced the Rock already.

Penn

DM-ICE wrote: »

I was thinking they could do Rock v Brock v Cena for the WWE title and maybe Punk v Taker. At this stage getting any match v Taker might be the most Punk dream of expecially when he is probably going to have faced the Rock already.

Punk wouldn't be happy with that unless his match was the main event though, considering that if he's still champion by that point it'd be almost 500 days as champion, he'll have beaten The Rock at the Royal Rumble and his match would be against Taker. I'd say if he found out his match wasn't going to be main event, it could push him over the edge

DM_7

Penn wrote: »

Punk wouldn't be happy with that unless his match was the main event though, considering that if he's still champion by that point it'd be almost 500 days as champion, he'll have beaten The Rock at the Royal Rumble and his match would be against Taker. I'd say if he found out his match wasn't going to be main event, it could push him over the edge

Well if he was the champion and facing the Undertaker it would have to be mian event. That why I said Rock v Brock v Cena would have to be for the title. That way Cena wins and they have the WWE champion on the Revenge tour. If Punk was the champ and faced taker, Taker would win so then they would have the same problem as if Rock won it at the Rumble.

in the unlikely event that Punk actually beats Rock (and I would be amazed if he did) he would have the profile to main event Mania. I don't think they need him in that spot this year with Rock and Brock around. But if he faced Taker (or Brock) on the undercard he would be in an important match on the card so he wouldn't have anything to complain about.

Remember his initial problem with Rock was he was all over Mania in a year Punk was easily beaten by Orton in a nothing match.

But last Year he got a rub from having rock on the card as he was in an important match himself. Last year he ran his mouth again but that was part truth, part creating a buzz, part building up some tension knowing he may get to work with rock down the road.

EDIT: I should add that no matter what he does at Mania he will want more. He is selfish alright and always wants more. There is nothing wrong with wanting to be the man, if he didn't have that desire he would probably be floating around in another promotion or WWE mid card.

The key is I think he would accept any match where he feels like his match adds some value to the card. Main event or not a match v Taker at mania is probably every other regular roster members ideal match.

spiritcrusher

I don't see Punk vs Taker happening unless it's for the title tbh. That way they can market it as a streak vs streak match of sorts. Undertaker's streak against Punk's hugely long title reign. Whether that would go on last instead of whatever Rock, Brock and Cena are involved in is a different story though.
And I wouldn't be surprised to see Taker win the title from Punk then possibly relinquish it the next night and retire, one last Wrestlemania moment and all that.

Anyway, I'm still thinking we may not even see Taker this year if the rumours regarding how beat up he is are even halfway true.

I'd also love to see Punk beat Rock at the Rumble. Not cos I'm against Rock winning the title or anything, I'd actually quite like to see him with the belt if he frees up time to squeeze in 2 or 3 PPVs and a few Raws. It just seems like a such lock that Rock wins title at Rumble then loses it at Mania that something unexpected would be welcome.

Mr.Nice Guy

Wasn't the big buzz though about Rock's last return that he wanted to be WWE Champion again? If he loses at the Rumble then surely he would have to win it at Mania otherwise that's a bit of a shitty tease for the fans.

Perhaps if Punk retains at the Rumble he could lose it to Cena at EC and then you could do Rock vs Cena for the title at Mania and Punk vs Taker for the streak.

Stereomaniac

Yeah. For me anyway, the whole hype around next year began on the Monday Night Raw after WrestleMania, and built up moreso at Raw 1000. Rocky saying he wanted to be the champion again, and the title match being announced. It was a huge tease to the fans, and it has become easy to join the dots, but I don't see The Rock not beating Punk.

starviewadams

rovert wrote: »

Nowhere in this paragraph do you mention creative or the head wind from the 3rd hour of Raw being added. Punk has drawn some great quarter hours and his mercnadise has sold well. Blaming him for buyrates is weird as he has spent most of the last year not in them however when he has like Hell in the Cell it did very well apparently.

WWE doesn't see him as a non-draw if they did they would have had no problem in sending him away to do the two WWE films she was scheduled for. But they couldn't as they needed him on the road.



That's ridiculous he is the one working house shows every week and will be the one still there when the Rock goes back to Hollywood.



How are Gallows and Cabana useless.

Punk's mates are Cesaro, Ohno, Del Ray etc too by the way.

I was pretty insomnia(d?) when I posted that rant,just Punk's moaning over the last few months is starting to annoy me.His moaning was probably justified back in 2010/early 2011 when he clearly wasn't being booked to his strengths.

But he's had a good 10 months of favourable booking and hasn't caught fire as a face or heel.If he had any sense he'd keep his whining about comic books/tv shows etc to himself and be glad WWE didn't kick him into Kofi territory after he flopped initially.

Especially if he'd been aware of these figures:

Top 5 worst over runs in the history of Monday Night Raw:

1. Punk/Bryan/Ryder vs. Alberto/Ziggler/Miz – 12/19/11 – 2.67 overrun rating
2. Punk/Ziggler vs. Team Hell No – 10/1/12 – 2.7 overrun rating
3. Cena/Punk/Heyman in-ring segment followed by Punk/Foley/Ryback backstage – 9/24/12 – 2.74 overrun rating
4. Punk vs. Sheamus lumberjack match followed by Punk/Ryback brawl – 10/22/12 – 2.89 overrun rating
5. Punk vs. Bryan/Tensai – 5/7/12 – 2.94 overrun rating

Common denominator there would be who?the best in the world?

gnfnrhead

starviewadams wrote: »

I was pretty insomnia(d?) when I posted that rant,just Punk's moaning over the last few months is starting to annoy me.His moaning was probably justified back in 2010/early 2011 when he clearly wasn't being booked to his strengths.

But he's had a good 10 months of favourable booking and hasn't caught fire as a face or heel.If he had any sense he'd keep his whining about comic books/tv shows etc to himself and be glad WWE didn't kick him into Kofi territory after he flopped initially.

Especially if he'd been aware of these figures:




Common denominator there would be who?the best in the world?

1 is easy to explain. Ryder :pac:
2, 3 and 4 I believe have all been 3 hour Raws. Hardly a shock that people are bored by then.
5 meanwhile could be Tensai. He has been a massive flop.

jaykhunter

I agree, I hate his new mid-card whiney heel schtick. Well to be honest Punk's never moved on from John Cena, upon his return he was sidetracked into undercard feuds with God-awful feud HHH and Nash, then Del Rio, then Jericho, Kane/Bryan, then back to Cena, and finally getting into the main event slot...but drawing out the feud since SummerSlam for the rest of the year with Big Show and then Ryback. So although he's beaten Cena many times, it never has stuck. He still has to come back and prove himself...

Thinking though, who else could he have faced? He seems figured out of Rock, Brock, HHH (for the most part) and Taker as they show up at the big events to wrestle someone else... He's already feuded with Orton so that leaves Sheamus, really. He's stuck in a difficult position where he's not booked in with the biggest fair-weather star.

spiritcrusher

I agree that Punk hasn't exactly lit the world on fire in the last year or so but I would also agree that he just hasn't been given the right material to work with. His feud with Cena made him who he now is but who else was there that could keep up that momentum?? Nash? That has to go down as one of the most poorly thought out storylines of the last few years. HHH? Putting your new top face against one of the crowd's favourites only to still lose, another poor call. Then he essentially got lost in the mid-card while Cena got to feud against Rock and Brock, so no wonder interest in him waned.
Raw then became an endurance test with the move to 3 hours which certainly hasn't helped.

That being said, I think it's important not to ignore other big factor in those ratings which is that, except for the last one, they were all up against Monday Night Football, which is massively popular (and still growing) and has had a fair few of its own dramas this year. Don't be surprised if Raw gets hammered in the next month week either, some huge matches coming up.

jaykhunter

With Punk's reign lasting so long it's inevitable he'd get snagged by Monday Night Football. I'd see that as nothing more than an excuse though, as WWE has dealt with ratings-hits from football every year since RAW's inception in 1993. WWF chose Mondays because it was the same night as football, hoping that people would still get together for RAW when the football season is over.

I agree the main problem with Punk being shoved aside was the return of Rock & Brock. I can't blame WWE though, since they needed to maximise their limited dates, and that's by putting them with the biggest star, Cena. Maybe in 5 years when Punk's been around so long he can shove Bryan, Barrett, Sheamo out of the way like the way Cena perennially main-events now. But say Rock/Brock didn't come back, Punk would be done with Cena (let's say) by Survivor Series 2011, who is he feuding with for the next year that'll catapult him into Cena-superstardom?

rossie1977

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Who were the previous number two guys before now? Orton maybe? Batista? Hardly huge draws or stars in the grand scheme of things.

batista was a much bigger star in wwe than lesnar during his first wwe run, his program with hhh did great business at a time wwe were on a downturn

i agree with rovert though, punk despite being champion has been treated terribly by wwe especially prior to his heelturn and does have a lot to moan about, no way cena, the rock, lesnar or whoever would have been promoted or booked in the same way punk was for 3/4 of his title run

if wwe booked austin in 1998-99 or hhh in 2000-01 like they booked punk between august 2011-august 2012 people would not have taken austin/hhh seriously...they had punk beat cena at mitb only to get pinned at the next 4 ppvs...don't forget this followed a period where they had punk win at 1 yes ONE ppv between october 2009 and may 2011............then after having him win the title at survivor they book him as a midcard champion, he didn't headline a single ppv between january and august, often stuck in the middle of the card behind the f**king divas, same regarding houseshows, raws etc, punk was the champion and not focus of the company, at mitb the wwe title match was half way down the card while the raw mitb (basically a souped up number 1 contender match mainevented)....but sure punk has nothing to complain about :rolleyes:

rossie1977

starviewadams wrote: »

Common denominator there would be who?the best in the world?

most watched raw segment of 2012....involved punk ie punk vs cena at raw 1000

most watched regular raw segment of 2012........involved punk ie july 16th over-run

july 9th over-run featuring aj/bryan/punk did more viewers than every single overrun during mania season featuring rock and cena

Mr.Nice Guy

rossie1977 wrote: »

batista was a much bigger star in wwe than lesnar during his first wwe run, his program with hhh did great business at a time wwe were on a downturn

i agree with rovert though, punk despite being champion has been treated terribly by wwe especially prior to his heelturn and does have a lot to moan about, no way cena, the rock, lesnar or whoever would have been promoted or booked in the same way punk was for 3/4 of his title run

if wwe booked austin in 1998-99 or hhh in 2000-01 like they booked punk between august 2011-august 2012 people would not have taken austin/hhh seriously...they had punk beat cena at mitb only to get pinned at the next 4 ppvs...don't forget this followed a period where they had punk win at 1 yes ONE ppv between october 2009 and may 2011............then after having him win the title at survivor they book him as a midcard champion, he didn't headline a single ppv between january and august, often stuck in the middle of the card behind the f**king divas, same regarding houseshows, raws etc, punk was the champion and not focus of the company, at mitb the wwe title match was half way down the card while the raw mitb (basically a souped up number 1 contender match mainevented)....but sure punk has nothing to complain about :rolleyes:

I'm not sure you're right about Batista being a bigger star than Lesnar during his first run. I'm sure I've seen Lesnar ranked as the best drawing champion of '03 and I think HHH was in subsequent years and not Batista, although that program was a great one.

As regards Austin and HHH not being treated like Punk, I'm surprised you're putting Punk on their level. Hunter though did win the title off Mankind in '99 only to lose it to Vince McMahon soon afterwards. He also later dropped the title to Show before feuding with Vince so I wouldn't call that an assured path to stardom.

The thing that people forget is Punk turned babyface and the guy himself has admitted he doesn't like playing the role. He spoke at the Comic Con event and admitted he has no idea what his babyface character is supposed to be about. If he doesn't know, how can the audience?

The guy works better as a heel but probably his most heelish moment this year was making fun of a guy that came back from a heart attack. What exactly does Punk need from a booking perspective to become a top guy?

DM_7

Its true, November to July did not push Punk into the big time. But hat it did do was give him longer matches, increased profile, mic time and gave a foundation to turn Heel o RAW 1000.

Since then (and correct me if i'm wrong) he has main evented all the PPV's, main evented House Shows, consistently appeared at the end of RAW, got yo work with Heyman. So I think since July his positioning in the company has genuinely improved. Whatever he may feel about his face run - I don't think he can complain at all about his current heel run.

If he gets to face he Rock at the Rumble he will have to shut his gob for a long time!

rossie1977

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I'm not sure you're right about Batista being a bigger star than Lesnar during his first run. I'm sure I've seen Lesnar ranked as the best drawing champion of '03 and I think HHH was in subsequent years and not Batista, although that program was a great one.

business went down with lesnar on top in late 2002-03, business went up with batista and cena on top in 2005-6

As regards Austin and HHH not being treated like Punk, I'm surprised you're putting Punk on their level.

he is never going to get close to their level in the fans eyes (the casuals especially) if they don't book him akin to those wrestlers, if we take triple h on his own they didnt book him to lose a single match clean on ppv between 1997 and 2000, this was a period when the wwe main event was probably at its strongest in history

while i think punk has been booked much better since raw 1000, now we have a situation where punk is being booked as a chicken**** heel, rewind back to 1999 or 2000 and hhh/austin would be beating ryback clean 123 middle of the ring if roles were reversed no question in my mind, same with cena in 2007 or hbk in 1996 they wouldn't have needed crooked refs or nxt guys to help them beat someone like that, we can put it down to punk being a heel but punk as a face champion struggled with bryan (losing on raw, drawing on ppv) while sheamus beat bryan in 8 seconds

its an interesting situation we have, clearly punks the best guy they have to fill the role he currently occupies but vince and hhh don't want to push him so strong that he breaks through given his size and look (would be the same if bryan was in the role), at the time i thought the best thing happen in the long run might have been cenas injury as it would show vince that punk was able to carry the company in cenas absence, as it turns out vince gave all the credit for hiac buyrate to ryback at least punk is now main-eventing the houseshows

GTR63

Punk will NEVER be on Stone Cold's level no matter how you book him, Austin was a HUGE star and Punk just hasn't got his appeal as shown when they put him opposite Johnny Ace to try to recreate a teeny bit of Vince and Austin. If he beat Ryback it'd make f*ck all difference he beat Cena countless times and it only really made a diffence at MITB 11 in his peak of popularity.

DM_7

GTR63 wrote: »

Punk will NEVER be on Stone Cold's level no matter how you book him, Austin was a HUGE star and Punk just hasn't got his appeal as shown when they put him opposite Johnny Ace to try to recreate a teeny bit of Vince and Austin. If he beat Ryback it'd make f*ck all difference he beat Cena countless times and it only really made a diffence at MITB 11 in his peak of popularity.

Pointless talking about Stone Cold and Punk when one is retired. Like Comparing Pele and Zidane.

For the sake of discussion though - you are right he won't be. Neither will wrestling ever be at that level again and is the real issue.

Stone Cold popularity was directly linked to his face off with Vince. Big Johnny didn't have a 10th of the profile Vince had so you can't suggest that if Punk was any good he would have achieved mass popularity and appeal as a result of that 'feud'.

Saying MITB 2011 was Punks peak in popularity is not something i could agree with. He was over with 'internet' or older male fans at the time. But as Jericho put it recently that accounts for only a small percentage of people actually watching the show. For most watching at that time they saw as pretty meh thanks to where he was in the company over the last few years. That was why WWE were slow to put him at the top of the card. Many people hated his stuff with Kane, Bryan, AJ but it got them all popularity with the more casual audience and was the peek of his popularity as regards people cheering him. I actually think he is at the top of his overall crowd reaction now.

Stereomaniac

I think we're seeing how really popular he is now when they aren't getting the necessary heel reaction for him every night of the week. Did someone post an article on here about him calling the Glasgow or Edinburgh audience Dublin on the recent tour a few weeks ago? The guy is definitely capable of carrying the company if John Cena is injured, I feel. I don't think as many people would have watched Hell In A Cell if the main event was Ryback vs. John Cena (in some parallel universe, where CM Punk wasn't the champion). I don't think there's any point in comparing him to Steve Austin, and I really can't see that many similarities between the 2 of them. Stone Cold, with the exception of good ol Terry is probably the biggest draw ever.

rossie1977

GTR63 wrote: »

Punk just hasn't got his appeal as shown when they put him opposite Johnny Ace to try to recreate a teeny bit of Vince and Austin.

can't compare vince and ace, vince was the most hated man in wrestling after montreal, ace didn't or doesn't have a fraction of that heat, anyway that program ran for a few weeks and they dropped it to move cena/big show onto johnny ace...again highlighting the problem of wwe booking in 2012, punk worked one week with vince and shock horror over 1.2 million extra tuned into see the match

in june 1996 austin had his breakout moment akin to punks breakout moment in june 2011, austin didn't move the needle at all in 1997 despite getting booked superstrong, wasn't until he was programmed with vince, tyson, dx in early 1998 that he thrived

the way i look at it is you have two fantastic artists, austin was given the top of the range studio and all the materials and he created the mona lisa, punk is given a piece of toilet paper and a white crayon and told to go paint in the dark and pissing rain outside and people are amazed when the works he produces isnt of the standard