Kidney to stay on? NOW WITH ADDED POLL!

totallegend

Very worrying:
http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/munster-legend-in-line-to-become-permanent-irish-defensive-coach-if-kidney-gets-contract-extension-3301367.html

(not the Anthony Foley bit, the rest of it)

He is the man to lead us; sacking him will solve nothing

If Kidney does stay on, then it's the entire ****ing IRFU that needs uprooting.

ScissorPaperRock

He is the man to lead us; sacking him will solve nothing

The prospect of Kidney staying on is absolutely puzzling... how could it seem to the IRFU that it would be in their best interests?

clsmooth

totallegend wrote: »

Very worrying:
http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/munster-legend-in-line-to-become-permanent-irish-defensive-coach-if-kidney-gets-contract-extension-3301367.html

(not the Anthony Foley bit, the rest of it)

That writer is a gobsh1te though. Wasn't he the one who was describing POM as a go to man for Ireland, an enforcer and ball carrying monster yesterday? As much as we all hope that becomes true, we know it's not. I would he pretty certain that there's a large percentage of players who have grown tired of the 'coaching ticket'.

O'Mahony is one of those anomalies that come along every so often – an experienced head on a young man's body. He is a former Munster schools and underage captain, and his potential was evident when Tony McGahan, then Munster coach, promoted him to captain in the absence of Paul O'Connell. It was a remarkable show of faith in a young player, especially as there were more experienced campaigners in the squad.

Since that fillip to his confidence he has gone on to establish himself as one of Ireland's go-to players. At full tilt and in possession he is harder to stop than a toppling red oak and no less devastating.

He has what one more experienced Munster team-mate describes as "the Paul O'Connell psycho eyes" and thrives in the ultra-physical world of international rugby where only the very strongest survive.

Otacon

None; his time is up

totallegend wrote: »

Very worrying:
http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/munster-legend-in-line-to-become-permanent-irish-defensive-coach-if-kidney-gets-contract-extension-3301367.html

(not the Anthony Foley bit, the rest of it)

ANTHONY FOLEY could be in line to join the Ireland set-up as defence coach on a full-time basis.

But only if Declan Kidney stays on as head coach beyond this season.

His future is by no means tied to that of Kidney's – or vice versa – but the relationship between the pair has always been extremely good and a full-time appointment for Foley would certainly help bolster the coaching ticket for the challenges that lie ahead.

irishbucsfan

None; his time is up

totallegend wrote: »

Very worrying:
http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/munster-legend-in-line-to-become-permanent-irish-defensive-coach-if-kidney-gets-contract-extension-3301367.html

(not the Anthony Foley bit, the rest of it)

It's Conor George. The guy would bring in the death penalty for heresy against ROG if he could. (ROGesy?). He is more tribal and biased than any poster on here. I can only think he is employed for exactly that reason in a country where Ulster and Leinster are emerging and so a pro-Munster journalist will be more contreversial and sell more copies.

justsomebloke

Deleted User wrote: »

If Kidney does stay on, then it's the entire ****ing IRFU that needs uprooting.

But the entire IRFU does need uprooting . A change in manager isn't going to do a damn thing as long as the current select panel stays in place


edit: this is one of the topics that could probably do with it's own thread as oppose to staying here

danthefan

He is the man to lead us; sacking him will solve nothing

The absolute craziest thing about that article is the journo seems to feel a win against Argentina, a team who I don't think have ever beaten us in Dublin, somehow erases the last 3 years of complete and utter rubbish from this lamentable management team.

.ak

He is the man to lead us; sacking him will solve nothing

I stopped reading once I read...

By Conor George

ray jay

He is the man to lead us; sacking him will solve nothing

justsomebloke wrote: »

But the entire IRFU does need uprooting . A change in manager isn't going to do a damn thing as long as the current select panel stays in place

Rather than focusing on a worthless bit of contradictory speculation by a bad writer, why not use this thread to discuss the above issue, i.e. the higher level problems with the national team that stem from the IRFU?

thomond2006

He is the man to lead us; sacking him will solve nothing

Is Conor George another IRFU/Kidney c*cksucker? I've never heard of him.

totallegend

He is the man to lead us; sacking him will solve nothing

thomond2006 wrote: »

Conor George

Used to work for the Echo, afaik.

danthefan

He is the man to lead us; sacking him will solve nothing

thomond2006 wrote: »

Is Conor George another IRFU/Kidney c*cksucker? I've never heard of him.

He previously wrote for the Cork Evening Echo.

Choice quote, from June of this year.

What is behind the reluctance to revert to O’Gara at out-half? On the evidence of the last two years it is clear that it cannot be explained away as ‘a rugby decision’. That argument just doesn’t stack up.
O’Gara is a better passer of the ball (off either hand), a better kicker (from ground and tee), has a sharper rugby brain, is a consistent performer and match-winner (something Ireland have lacked since 2010) and manages a game better.
Where Sexton has the edge is in physical strength, tackling technique and foot-speed but those attributes hardly out-weigh the far more valuable advantages O’Gara possesses.
But if it’s one or the other then O’Gara is the better choice.

How he can come out with stuff about him being a match winner when the last big game Ireland won with ROG at 10 was in 2009 is fairly bewildering.

thomond2006

He is the man to lead us; sacking him will solve nothing

Another idiot then, we should start a Irish Rugby Journalists Hall of Shame.

justsomebloke

Can we please refrain from personal abuse of the journalist

Foxtrol

He is the man to lead us; sacking him will solve nothing

justsomebloke wrote: »

Can we please refrain from personal abuse of the journalist

Using this term to describe Conor George has to be classed as being offensive to all real journalists.

molloyjh

He is the man to lead us; sacking him will solve nothing

Just read it there myself. Or at least I read up until:

Conor George wrote:

An Irish win, though, could be the tide that raises all ships and would send Ireland into the 2013 Six Nations on a high with the added benefit of having their marquee players back.

At that stage, Ireland will be two years out from the World Cup and may well maintain faith with Kidney and his coaching lieutenants, which could, by then, include Foley (right) on a full-time basis.

Once I saw that I had to come onto boards to see the reaction. I mean there's insanity and there's insanity. This being an example of the latter in my view. Irish rugby journalism seems determined to sink to record lows. It really does beggar belief....

Teferi

He is the man to lead us; sacking him will solve nothing

The chap knows literally nothing about rugby, I'm not entirely sure he has even seen a game of it. It's his usual nonsense.

.ak

He is the man to lead us; sacking him will solve nothing

Indo's 'Send 5 coupons in from crisp wrappers to become a journo' campaign is still alive and well anyway.

goreyguy

He is the man to lead us; sacking him will solve nothing

Ridiculous article after ridiculous article lately in the Indo.

vkid

justsomebloke wrote: »

But the entire IRFU does need uprooting . A change in manager isn't going to do a damn thing as long as the current select panel stays in place


edit: this is one of the topics that could probably do with it's own thread as oppose to staying here

Have been saying the same thing for eons. Getting rid of Kidney will fix nothing...in the same way as getting rid of EOS, Gatland etc fixed nothing.

Rover Random

None; his time is up

danthefan wrote: »

He previously wrote for the Cork Evening Echo.

Choice quote, from June of this year.




How he can come out with stuff about him being a match winner when the last big game Ireland won with ROG at 10 was in 2009 is fairly bewildering.

In fairness he did save us our blushes against the Italians.

thebaz

if Kidney gets a further contract i will support Samoa full time

justsomebloke

thebaz wrote: »

if Kidney gets a further contract i will support Samoa full time

The soccer forum as the 'Go ahead Eagles' subforum, so having a Samoa Superthread could easily be on the cards:D

irishbucsfan

None; his time is up

We might need to start a boycott I reckon.

durkadurka

None; his time is up

He's written yet another puff peice about yet another Munster player too today.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/keith-earls-no-more-angry-man-3301370.html

Its extraordinary for its blatancy.

Did they drop Farrelly becasue he wasn't enough of a wind up merchant?

totallegend

He is the man to lead us; sacking him will solve nothing

irishbucsfan wrote: »

We might need to start a boycott I reckon.

It could be argued that there is already one going on, albeit unofficially.

When Ireland played SA in 2009, 75,000 people turned up to Croke Park.

This year, 49,000 people arrived despite tickets being a whole lot cheaper in 2012.

It may not be a boycott but it's not far off it.

[Edit: Some genius is going to point out that Aviva can't hold 75000 people; the point is that they struggled to get it even close to full.]

justsomebloke

totallegend wrote: »

It could be argued that there is already one going on, albeit unofficially.

When Ireland played SA in 2009, 75,000 people turned up to Croke Park.

This year, 49,000 people arrived despite tickets being a whole lot cheaper in 2012.

It may not be a boycott but it's not far off it.

[Edit: Some genius is going to point out that Aviva can't hold 75000 people; the point is that they struggled to get it even close to full.]

I was offered free tickets by O2 to either of the games and turned the offer down so I wasn't bothered (yes having the new born was mostly the reason for not going but that hasn't stopped us trying to get to all the Leinter games)

irishbucsfan

None; his time is up

totallegend wrote: »

It could be argued that there is already one going on, albeit unofficially.

When Ireland played SA in 2009, 75,000 people turned up to Croke Park.

This year, 49,000 people arrived despite tickets being a whole lot cheaper in 2012.

It may not be a boycott but it's not far off it.

[Edit: Some genius is going to point out that Aviva can't hold 75000 people; the point is that they struggled to get it even close to full.]

I meant more a boards.ie boycott of the Independent!

But I agree with you on that point.

phog

totallegend wrote: »

It could be argued that there is already one going on, albeit unofficially.

When Ireland played SA in 2009, 75,000 people turned up to Croke Park.

This year, 49,000 people arrived despite tickets being a whole lot cheaper in 2012.

It may not be a boycott but it's not far off it.

[Edit: Some genius is going to point out that Aviva can't hold 75000 people; the point is that they struggled to get it even close to full.]

In 2009 I was taking home a lot more income than I am now, I could afford to go to the game in 2009 this year it was simply not an option. Cost of travel has increased enormously too.

How many have emigrated/lost jobs since 2009?

In some cases people are staying away because of the rugby but I'd say most just simply cannot afford it.

phog

He is the man to lead us; sacking him will solve nothing

phog wrote: »

In some cases people are staying away because of the rugby but I'd say most just simply cannot afford it.

When your product is ****, it doesn't matter how much money people have to spend on it.

As the ticket prices have fallen starkly even in comparison to the rate of deflation / wage freezes / tax increases your point isn't actually fair.

"Holding all else equal, people have less to spend and cannot afford games" might be true, but the ticket prices falling offset the weight that you can viably attribute to that statement.

jm08

Deleted User wrote: »

When your product is ****, it doesn't matter how much money people have to spend on it.

As the ticket prices have fallen starkly even in comparison to the rate of deflation / wage freezes / tax increases your point isn't actually fair.

"Holding all else equal, people have less to spend and cannot afford games" might be true, but the ticket prices falling offset the weight that you can viably attribute to that statement.

It might not effect those who have a lot of disposable income (don't have mortgage, kids ect). But how many people who are in that age-group have a job or haven't emigrated?

Higher

He is the man to lead us; sacking him will solve nothing

What a terrible article.

I've no idea why the likes of Connor George, Frankie Sheehan, Donal Lenihan, Daire O'Brien, Thornley, George Hook etc. seem to feel the need to big up players from Munster in the national media. Its tribalism at its worst and should be nipped in the butt.

durkadurka

None; his time is up

Deleted User wrote: »

When your product is ****, it doesn't matter how much money people have to spend on it.

As the ticket prices have fallen starkly even in comparison to the rate of deflation / wage freezes / tax increases your point isn't actually fair.

"Holding all else equal, people have less to spend and cannot afford games" might be true, but the ticket prices falling offset the weight that you can viably attribute to that statement.

Ticket price is only an element - (probably a small element for non-Dubs) of the cost of attending a game.
Petrol is up a lot, Hot dogs cost the same, so do pints, match programmes etc.


The recession has certainly played a part.

to compare to provinces, munster seems to be down - in that you can actually get HEC tickets now, but not down a huge amount given the decline of the team in recent seasons.

Leinster are just holding up really - despite the massive recent success and champagne rugby etc. I presume the receission is costing us as many fans as we are winning over.

durkadurka

None; his time is up

Higher wrote: »

What a terrible article.

I've no idea why the likes of Connor George, Frankie Sheehan, Donal Lenihan, Daire O'Brien, Thornley, George Hook etc. seem to feel the need to big up players from Munster in the national media. Its tribalism at its worst and should be nipped in the butt.

Ooh err.

molloyjh

He is the man to lead us; sacking him will solve nothing

justsomebloke wrote: »

I was offered free tickets by O2 to either of the games and turned the offer down so I wasn't bothered (yes having the new born was mostly the reason for not going but that hasn't stopped us trying to get to all the Leinter games)

The OH asked me the other day if she could get her hands on free tickets would I go. I simply shrugged my shoulders and let out a "meh". I know I should want to go, and I do want to "want to" go, but I just can't drum up any enthusiasm within myself over this at all. Whereas the thought of missing a game in the RDS is enough to make me reconsider whatever is making me miss it.

This is where DKs Ireland has left me (and obviously a number of others too). And yet still we have articles like this in the national media and none highlighting issues like the ones we're all experiencing. There is a ridiculous disconnect between these guys and their audience.

phog

Deleted User wrote: »

When your product is ****, it doesn't matter how much money people have to spend on it.

As the ticket prices have fallen starkly even in comparison to the rate of deflation / wage freezes / tax increases your point isn't actually fair.

"Holding all else equal, people have less to spend and cannot afford games" might be true, but the ticket prices falling offset the weight that you can viably attribute to that statement.

In 2009 I spent just €4,500 on my car this year to the end of October I've spent €5,700, my health, life insurance has soared upwards. Have the price of tickets dropped that dramitically?

Maybe, I'm the only one that has been hit with increases but I seriously doubt it.

durkadurka

None; his time is up

Back to the subject of Conor George, anyone who whinges about the supposed Dublin Meejah needs to have a bit of a think becasue this man's bias is overwhelming so far.

Foxtrol

He is the man to lead us; sacking him will solve nothing

phog wrote: »

In 2009 I spent just €4,500 on my car this year to the end of October I've spent €6,700, my health, life insurance has soared upwards. Have the price of tickets dropped that dramitically?

Maybe, I'm the only one that has been hit with increases but I seriously doubt it.

Do you desire to go/look forward to Irish games as much as you did in the past?

Seph503

He is the man to lead us; sacking him will solve nothing

durkadurka wrote: »

Back to the subject of Conor George, anyone who whinges about the supposed Dublin Meejah needs to have a bit of a think becasue this man's bias is overwhelming so far.

Well he's not just biased, he's hopeless too. Seems to think Paddy Wallace being called up in NZ was keeping him out of the team.

Don't know where to start with that one.

ScissorPaperRock

He is the man to lead us; sacking him will solve nothing

While there seems to be a broad concensus on boards that the coaching ticket needs to be replaced, I wonder if that is a broadly held view? Does the average casual rugby fan feel the same? Or are they reliant upon the perspectives of this kind of journalism?

CoDy1

He is the man to lead us; sacking him will solve nothing

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I meant more a boards.ie boycott of the Independent!

I agree. Thing is, the Indo is gettin more hits now because of boards.ie with all the links being posted in the past few days!

durkadurka

None; his time is up

CoDy1 wrote: »

I agree. Thing is, the Indo is gettin more hits now because of boards.ie with all the links being posted in the past few days!

THe Daily Mail in the UK seems to have this 'trolling strategy', posting deliberately provocative stuff to enrage people and drive traffic to the site.
Could be that the indo is doing the same.

JustinDee

ScissorPaperRoc wrote: »

While there seems to be a broad concensus on boards that the coaching ticket needs to be replaced, I wonder if that is a broadly held view? Does the average casual rugby fan feel the same? Or are they reliant upon the perspectives of this kind of journalism?

As far as this fella in particular is concerned, its job done. Hit rate on website goes up and/or the paper he writes in gets read.

Anyone reliant on opinion pieces in any form of media in order to shape their own opinion needs help, in my view.

molloyjh

He is the man to lead us; sacking him will solve nothing

ScissorPaperRoc wrote: »

While there seems to be a broad concensus on boards that the coaching ticket needs to be replaced, I wonder if that is a broadly held view? Does the average casual rugby fan feel the same? Or are they reliant upon the perspectives of this kind of journalism?

I'd hope the average rugby fan is a bit more street-wise than that. Surely they can see from our results that there is something wrong, whatever about particular performances on-field. I don't follow soccer and I don't pay a blind bit of attention to the media on the matter either and I still know how shocking the Irish soccer team is.

From what I've seen though a lot of "average fans" fall back on provincial tribalism and that seems to be masking the real issue overall.....

phog

Foxtrol wrote: »

Do you desire to go/look forward to Irish games as much as you did in the past?

Yes

danthefan

He is the man to lead us; sacking him will solve nothing

On attending games, I could afford to go on Saturday but there's no way I'm willing to part with my money, it's just not worth it. I was at the SA game and that wasn't worth it either. The last game I was at was the France RWC warm up and again, that wasn't worth it. I will not attend another Ireland game until either Kidney is gone or we see a massive change in playing style.

Foxtrol

He is the man to lead us; sacking him will solve nothing

Foxtrol wrote: »

Do you desire to go/look forward to Irish games as much as you did in the past?

anyone who posts on this board is irrelevant in this regard. We amount to a tiny percentage of supporters and definitely aren't representative as a whole.

We take time out to discuss the game here, do we imagine/fool ourselves that 37k other people at Lansdowne Road for an Ireland game care as much as we do (or in fact, should they!?)?

Much like in the election in the states, there were 85% of people who would vote democrat or republican regardless of the candidate, there's a 15% swing vote.

We've the opposite situation here, the swing vote (aka bandwagon support if you must be a dick) is the vast majority of attendances. There's probably 2k "stubborn" fans that would turn up if we were playing a Scotland 'A' side in Botharnabreena on a Saturday at 12:30pm. Probably 40% of posters on here would be in that stubborn group. We're not representative of the Stadium at large.

molloyjh

He is the man to lead us; sacking him will solve nothing

danthefan wrote: »

On attending games, I could afford to go on Saturday but there's no way I'm willing to part with my money, it's just not worth it. I was at the SA game and that wasn't worth it either. The last game I was at was the France RWC warm up and again, that wasn't worth it. I will not attend another Ireland game until either Kidney is gone or we see a massive change in playing style.

Yeah, you don't mind forking out to see your side beaten as long as they play in a way that you can get behind. The last game I was at was the England game in Landsdowne in the RWC warm-ups. The dross that was served up to us paying customers that day was enough to convince me not to waste any more money on the internationals until we start to see something change. I payed for 6 tickets and convinced friends who aren't too interested in rugby to go because I'd hoped we'd see a repeat of the 6Ns game that year. They might have developed an interest had they seen that, but in the end they left early because they got bored. The game was awful from our point of view and the crowd were fairly miserable as a result.

Timothy Bryce

He is the man to lead us; sacking him will solve nothing

I can afford to go to matches and was offered free tickets to all 3 of the AI's this year. The truth is, it's a bit depressing and disjointed to watch.

I feel as though a huge chunk of the squad have had any shreds of creativity coached out of them.

I'd be much more inclined to go to the RDS/Ravenhill/Thomond etc and watch a good intro-pro than head to the Aviva with zero atmosphere watching Ireland shunt the ball around the park and squeeze out a win.

bamboozle

He is the man to lead us; sacking him will solve nothing

molloyjh wrote: »

Yeah, you don't mind forking out to see your side beaten as long as they play in a way that you can get behind. The last game I was at was the England game in Landsdowne in the RWC warm-ups. The dross that was served up to us paying customers that day was enough to convince me not to waste any more money on the internationals until we start to see something change. I payed for 6 tickets and convinced friends who aren't too interested in rugby to go because I'd hoped we'd see a repeat of the 6Ns game that year. They might have developed an interest had they seen that, but in the end they left early because they got bored. The game was awful from our point of view and the crowd were fairly miserable as a result.

agreed, furthermore the IRFU are facing another challange to nov international attendances with the Leinster v Clermont game in the Aviva in a couple of weeks. I had no interest paying to watch us play SA or Argentina but i'm looking forward to enjoying the quality that will be on display in Leinster v Clermont and i think a lot of Leinster fans have chosen to attend this match ahead of the Nov Internationals.

what's more i've gone to 5 AIL matches so far this season and would rather enjoy the honesty of this level of rugby that watch the national team play rugby of a bygone era.

I cant see any reason why Kidney would be kept on after the 6N's. The team has gone backwards in performance, quality, results & tactics.