Judge found guilty of Deception

Death and Taxes

What a piece of work this one is, tried to con an elderly couple out of half their will!
http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/1120/district-court-heather-perrin-thomas-davis.html

No doubt she will get the probation act!
She cant be sacked execept if the Oireachtas takes impeachment proceedings against her, she is currently on "sick leave":mad:

the groutch

will probably get a golden handshake, with a big fat pension waiting for when she hits retirement age

padd b1975

Some piece of work right enough.

Fair play to that old guy for sticking to his guns and standing up to her.

charlemont

One down, Still a load of crooks in the system though..

Pat Mustard

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/courts/judge-heather-perrin-told-gardai-that-solicitor-who-took-over-her-practice-could-be-behind-deception-allegations-3295234.html

When asked why Mr Davis now denied leaving half the estate to her children, she replied: “I can’t explain why he said that. They are both in their 80s and may have forgotten.”

There is not going to be a lot sympathy.

seamus

Whatever the circumstances around drafting the will and money to be left to her children, it certainly sounds like she didn't go to any great pains to review the contents of the will with her client.

It's kind of essential that she isn't automatically removed when convicted because the independence of the judiciary is a cornerstone of a fair judicial system. If a conviction could cause a judge to be automatically fired, then the Dail or the Gardai could hold some sway over judges actions.

Death and Taxes

seamus wrote: »

Whatever the circumstances around drafting the will and money to be left to her children, it certainly sounds like she didn't go to any great pains to review the contents of the will with her client.

It's kind of essential that she isn't automatically removed when convicted because the independence of the judiciary is a cornerstone of a fair judicial system. If a conviction could cause a judge to be automatically fired, then the Dail or the Gardai could hold some sway over judges actions.[/QUOTE]


I presume you are taking the piss, of course she should be fired, would you want that crooked cnut hearing a case involving you, especially if the other party could offer her more money!

seamus

I didn't say she shouldn't be fired, I'm just not condemning the reason why she's not automatically fired.

Death and Taxes

The trial heard that Thomas and Ada Davis decided to make their wills with Perrin before she was officially made a judge. Mr Davis gave instructions to leave €2000 each to various churches, €2000 each to Perrin’s children and split everything else between his two nieces.

When he went into her office to sign the will the meeting was rushed as Perrin said she had urgent business to attend to. He was not given an opportunity to read the will nor was it read over to him. He said he didn’t have a problem with this as he trusted Perrin.

The trial heard that the will Mr Davis signed actually split his estate between his nieces and Perrin’s two children. After the meeting with Mr Davis her husband, Albert Perrin, signed the will as a witness.

Several months later Mr Davis received a copy of his will which left out the bequest of half his estate to the Perrin children.

When a new law firm took over Perrin’s practice they wrote to the Davis’s querying several irregularities in their legal documents. Mrs Davis asked Perrin for her help in dealing with the firm.

The judge drafted several increasingly irate letters to the firm demanding they stop contacting the Davis’s and that they return the wills and other legal documents. She had Mr Davis sign the letters before sending them.

On several occasions Perrin sent a friend of hers to pick up the wills, but the firm refused to hand them over without proper authorisation from the Davises.

Eventually the firm examined Mr Davis’s will and noticed the bequest to the Perrin children.

They again wrote to him asking if it was above aboard. When Mr Davis received this letter he immediately went to the law offices where he was shocked to see the will leaving half his estate to Perrin’s children.

He made a new will in line with his original wishes but still left her children €2000 each.

That evening the Davises contacted Perrin who said it must have been a mistake by her secretary.

She was later interviewed five times by gardaí during which she claimed the will was in line with Mr Davis’s instructions and that he did not want to leave his nieces all his estate because he was unhappy with how they had squandered money from him in the past.
http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/district-court-judge-shocked-by-guilty-verdict-in-deception-case-574903.html

What a total and utter scumbag she is!

john_cappa

You have to kind of admire the neck on her though!

People like her get ahead in life as they are will to **** people over simple as.

Death and Taxes

john_cappa wrote: »

You have to kind of admire the neck on her though!

People like her get ahead in life as they are will to **** people over simple as.

Dont think I will ever need to admire anyone who robs and cheats the elderly.

john_cappa

WileyCoyote wrote: »

Dont think I will ever need to admire anyone who robs and cheats the elderly.

oooh a high horse!

Hiiiiiigh Hooooooooo

Think about the elderly and the children people!!!!!

Hobbes

Make sure you wonder how many other wills she has changed to help herself?

kippy

john_cappa wrote: »

You have to kind of admire the neck on her though!

People like her get ahead in life as they are will to **** people over simple as.

This post, your honour, is the main reason this country is in the sh1tter and not one politician, senior banker, regulator, senior business person, has been prosecuted.

john_cappa

kippy wrote: »

This post, your honour, is the main reason this country is in the sh1tter and not one politician, senior banker, regulator, senior business person, has been prosecuted.

Here come the cavalry!!

kippy

john_cappa wrote: »

Here come the cavalry!!

What did you expect, widespread support for illegal acts?

john_cappa

kippy wrote: »

What did you expect, widespread support for illegal acts?

No I expect the typical haughty moral outrage from those who have never broken a single law in their lives! Not even a chewing gum did I spit out the car window your honour. Pure as the driven snow.

Not supporting her acts but I admire (perhaps admire is the wrong word but you know what I mean) the fact that she is willing to **** anyone over to get ahead.

Not something I could do but that is why some people who dont deserve it are dirty rich I guess.

kippy

john_cappa wrote: »

No I expect the typical haughty moral outrage from those who have never broken a single law in their lives! Not even a chewing gum did I spit out the car window your honour. Pure as the driven snow.

Not supporting her acts but I admire (perhaps admire is the wrong word but you know what I mean) the fact that she is willing to **** anyone over to get ahead.

Not something I could do but that is why some people who dont deserve it are dirty rich I guess.

There are different levels of "law breaking" as such.....you do realise that,
Do you condone/admire someone (say a drug dealer) murdering a rival drug dealer to "get ahead"........

And as for the guys at the top, do you condone what they did directly or indirectly, to thousands of people in this country?

Throwing chewing gum out of a car does not equal what is being discussed here.

Death and Taxes

john_cappa wrote: »

No I expect the typical haughty moral outrage from those who have never broken a single law in their lives! Not even a chewing gum did I spit out the car window your honour. Pure as the driven snow.

Not supporting her acts but I admire (perhaps admire is the wrong word but you know what I mean) the fact that she is willing to **** anyone over to get ahead.

Not something I could do but that is why some people who dont deserve it are dirty rich I guess.

I thought you be too busy crying to post, what with mummy getting caught red handed

HeyThereDeliah

What's the usual sentence for this offence? I'm thinking suspended sentence for her and of course she has to step down from her job.

Min

The judge now has the will of the jury.

john_cappa

kippy wrote: »

There are different levels of "law breaking" as such.....you do realise that,
Do you condone/admire someone (say a drug dealer) murdering a rival drug dealer to "get ahead"........

And as for the guys at the top, do you condone what they did directly or indirectly, to thousands of people in this country?

Throwing chewing gum out of a car does not equal what is being discussed here.

Yes I do to a degree (re the guys at the top). Most people in similar positions would have done the same. Much of the blame lies with society I feel who as a whole are weak, meek, passive and divided.

Death and Taxes

HeyThereDeliah wrote: »

What's the usual sentence for this offence? I'm thinking suspended sentence for her and of course she has to step down from her job.

Depends who you are and who you know!
She doesn't have to step down, she can only be removed from office is the Oireachtas impeaches her!:mad:

john_cappa

WileyCoyote wrote: »

I thought you be too busy crying to post, what with mummy getting caught red handed

Will I still get the few thousand do you think??

Micky Dolenz

Fair play to the solicitors for pointing it out. They seemed to have acted like a dog with a bone and were insistent on working in their clients best interest.

kippy

john_cappa wrote: »

Yes I do to a degree (re the guys at the top). Most people in similar positions would have done the same. Much of the blame lies with society I feel who as a whole are weak, meek, passive and divided.

They wouldnt have done the same, had there been a chance of getting caught/serving time.
Why isn't there a chance of them getting caught or serving time, you believe it to be a weak society, I believe it to be an attitude akin to your own which may be an indication of a weak society, but dont feel you're not part of it.

Yellowblackbird

seamus wrote: »

It's kind of essential that she isn't automatically removed when convicted because the independence of the judiciary is a cornerstone of a fair judicial system. If a conviction could cause a judge to be automatically fired, then the Dail or the Gardai could hold some sway over judges actions.

We seem to uphold the independence of the Judiciary to the detriment of many other things. This is not the first time it's caused problems.

If Judges are to be immune from the Dail and DPP/Gardai then they need to be accountable to some other independent body.

There should be an Agency who can hold Judges to account for poor performance on the bench or for bad behavior in their private lives.
Of course how such a agency is formed so as to itself be untainted is a difficult job. But it is needed.

HeyThereDeliah

WileyCoyote wrote: »

Depends who you are and who you know!
She doesn't have to step down, she can only be removed from office is the Oireachtas impeaches her!:mad:

If she has any cop at all she will step down, how can she sentence /fine anyone in a court room after this.

She totally used her position to con this couple, they trusted her and she used that to favour her own family.

who the fug

Yellowblackbird wrote: »

We seem to uphold the independence of the Judiciary to the detriment of many other things. This is not the first time it's caused problems.

If Judges are to be immune from the Dail and DPP/Gardai then they need to be accountable to some other independent body.

There should be an Agency who can hold Judges to account for poor performance on the bench or for bad behavior in their private lives.
Of course how such a agency is formed so as to itself be untainted is a difficult job. But it is needed.

Given the brass neck of our elected TDs over the last 50 years, I think it is best leave well enough alone.

pickarooney

The fact she took half of his relatively meagre inheritance for her children when she's obviously minted would make you wonder what kind of sociopaths are being promoted to the judge's bench - if it wasn't already abundantly clear from the insane sentences most of them dole out.

Pat Mustard

HeyThereDeliah wrote: »

If she has any cop at all she will step down

If had any cop on, she wouldn't have presumed that she would not get caught. The risk of being discovered was huge.

If Thomas Davis had gone to the new solicitors and asked to change his old will, it would have been discovered.

the_syco

I'd wonder if this would allow someone to check back through her files to see if any of her previous cases benefited her or her family financially?

Pandora2

I have no doubt AGS have already explored the possibility of prior fraud already, it would be the logical route of enquiry I would have thought.

franktheplank

Maurice 'Maury' Levy: You are amoral, are you not? You are feeding off the violence and the despair of the drug trade. You are stealing from those who themselves are stealing the lifeblood from our city. You are a parasite who leeches off...
Omar: Just like you, man.
Maurice 'Maury' Levy: ...the culture of drugs. Excuse me? What?
Omar: I got the shotgun, you got the briefcase. It's all in the game though, right?

Degringola

A 'meagre' inheritance indeed. I must be moving in the wrong circles.

Our man in Havana

She will continue to be a judge. There is no way to fire a judge.

Milk & Honey

Our man in Havana wrote: »

She will continue to be a judge. There is no way to fire a judge.

There is a way to fire a judge. A judge can be removed by the Houses of the oireachtas for stated misbehaviour.

Article 35 (4) of the Constitution
1° A judge of the Supreme Court or the High Court shall not be removed from office except for stated misbehaviour or incapacity, and then only upon resolutions passed by Dáil Éireann and by Seanad Éireann calling for his removal.

goose2005

HeyThereDeliah wrote: »

What's the usual sentence for this offence? I'm thinking suspended sentence for her and of course she has to step down from her job.

Twenty years on Titan.

(one for the nerds there)

toexpress

Was there a sentence handed down have been on the go half the day haven't gotten news yet

Ellis Dee

Expect a cat fight or two in the women's prison (the offence carries a maximum sentence of five years' imprisonment) when she meets some of the ladies she sent there during her time on the bench.:D:D:D

poeticseraphim

HSE , POLITICIANS, GUARDS, BANKERS, BANKING REGULATORS, DEVELOPERS, THE CHURCH, JUDGES....who is left??

You can't fire judges....

Reloc8

Our man in Havana wrote: »

She will continue to be a judge. There is no way to fire a judge.

Naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah. Betcha she dun't.

Prediction - she will receive a 3 year prison sentence. You heard it here first :cool:

HeyThereDeliah

http://www.irishexaminer.com/archives/2012/1127/world/convicted-judge-perrin-offers-her-resignation-215199.html

She was left with no choice but to resign, sentencing is tomorrow, lets see what happens.

suicide_circus

Wonder what kind of whopper pension she will be left with?

suicide_circus

She actually got 2.5 years, Cant believe it, delighted.

Gone Drinking

And because she stepped down, she's still got her nice hefty state pension!

HeyThereDeliah

Gone Drinking wrote: »

And because she stepped down, she's still got her nice hefty state pension!

Not as much as she would have got if she did a few more years.
I'm actually surprised she got jail, I'm waiting for the sting in the tail, will she serve her time?

Pat Mustard

Gone Drinking wrote: »

And because she stepped down, she's still got her nice hefty state pension!

I don't know about that for sure. Remember Judge Brian Curtin? He was not convicted of any crime, but he stepped down, got a lump sum of €57k and annuity of €19,149.

suicide_circus wrote: »

Wonder what kind of whopper pension she will be left with?

Heather Perrin has been convicted of a crime. I don't have the relevant pension rules in front of me, but maybe there's a forfeiture provision?

If she's well behaved, she'll get her €2.20 per day prison pocket money anyway.

Rabidlamb

Is she in a dream, within a dream, within a dream . . . .

Note to self, read thread titles properly.

Reloc8

Reloc8 wrote: »

Naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah. Betcha she dun't.

Prediction - she will receive a 3 year prison sentence. You heard it here first :cool:

I was wrong, I admit it.

Pat Mustard

Reloc8 wrote: »

I was wrong, I admit it.

You weren't that far out.