saorsat and freesat on humax forsat hdr

dharn

I see there are at least 3 if not 4 people on here at present trying to set up a soarsat-freesat combination on a humax box i have asked the mods to set up a sticky as i recon there will be a lot of people trying this as time goes on .
so can we pool our knowledge , and ask questions here
so first question, can anyone post a wiring digram for connecting the 2 lnbs to the humax box so that we can watch RTE, and record off freesat, thanks

zg3409

Note the UK LNB should be connected to the lowest number port (normally 1)

DiSEqC needs to be setup in the hidden menu
See here:

http://foxsat-hdr.wikispaces.com/DiSEqC

dharn

thanks ... cannot remember your username !! that is brilliant now that i know the wiring next question.. i take it i try and get the 9e sat first as i think that is a difficult beam to find, do i align on that satellite exactly and off set the other lnb for 28 or do i aim somewhere in between and offset both lnbs

swoofer

you are almost done, there is another link that shows how to load new software on the humax to make it even better , will have a look for you. On setting up the dish with a lnb holder the rule used to be always align the central lnb on the weakest sat, in this case 9east. I used a normal lnb to set up then swop to the ka lnb, its a lot harder to align with the ka band lnb. dish size and location is important. 80cm is a bit small in my reckoning but no doubt will be proved wrong.

found it, its this one but set it up as normal first, even I find this one daunting but looks very good.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056747871

swoofer

@zg3409 thats a nice graphic but how can he record bbc1 and itv at same time with this set up? just curious

dharn

@gbcullen, in one post you say that is a great solution then you go and spoil it in the next by saying it wont work !! confused again

swoofer

sorry, i just wanted an explanation that would help you!! say its a b c d, then the reply could be if a = 28, b =9, c= 9, d= 28, then when set to record freesat will select the correct option.

or it could read different, hope you understand but if you read the article on the diseq closely I think the answer is in there.

it will work so no worries.

gbc

off to watch footie now

dharn

Update ,,:Di now realize i have a triax 88 which is a 90 cm dish so i should be in a better position to get my scheme working now waiting for the wind to die down

Peter Rhea

dharn wrote: »

@gbcullen, in one post you say that is a great solution then you go and spoil it in the next by saying it wont work !! confused again

He does have a point. The graphic seems to show a 2-way switch for each tuner: does this actually work? (I've deleted my own earlier post, where I just assumed it would work.)

dharn

dont know peter i am here looking for help and the benefit of your experience i have all the gear arrived today now i have to get it working :eek:

swoofer

no panic, this is the answer, " The following setup assumes you have TWO 28E feeds - one feed will directly go into the HDR, the other 28E feed is connected to one of the inputs on the switch" the graphic is missing a cable, and its for 2 stb's not one but a good guide.

zg3409

GBCULLEN wrote: »

no panic, this is the answer, " The following setup assumes you have TWO 28E feeds - one feed will directly go into the HDR, the other 28E feed is connected to one of the inputs on the switch" the graphic is missing a cable, and its for 2 stb's not one but a good guide.

No. The graphic shows one Set top box, that takes two feeds. This setup is based on a dual tuner box with inbuilt hard drive for recording. Before setting up Saorsat the two feeds should be tested with the UK channels only.

Then the Saorsat LNB is added, and TWO DiSEqC switches are mounted near the dish. In this way each tuner can select either LNB. With this setup you can watch either an Irish or UK channel while recording either an Irish or UK channel.

I would recommend a quad or octo LNB for the UK channels to allow further receivers to be added later.

excollier

Ask iba, he has just set up for 4 sats on a Humax HDR with Raydon's bundle

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=81830344#post81830344

swoofer

good stuff, the box is a humax freesat so he needs the option to record the 2 uk channels at once and iba will put him on the right track.

so you are sorted

dharn

zg3409 wrote: »

Note the UK LNB should be connected to the lowest number port (normally 1)

DiSEqC needs to be setup in the hidden menu
See here:

http://foxsat-hdr.wikispaces.com/DiSEqC

re the above scheme you say the uk channels should be connected to port 1 but at the uk channels Freesat are connected to both diseq switches does it make any difference which port they are connected to

watty

Port 1 or Port 1A or Port AA of both Diseqc switches (or a Multiswitch which has FOUR inputs for each port, LH, LV, HH, HV).

dharn

i have 2 4 way diseq switches and 2 dual lnbs the diseq are marked lnb 1,2,3,4, i will be only using 1,2 on each, so you mean connect the freesat lnb output to lnb 1 in on both diseq,and connect the output from the other lnb to lnb input 2 on both switches, then the 2 output leads go to the 2 inputs on my humax (marked lnb1, lnb 2 ) does it make any difference which lead is connected to which input on the reciever

zg3409

You are correct. It should not matter.

Peter Rhea

Can tuner 2 handle DiSEqC? Has anyone actually set this up & tested it, or is it a work in progress?

zg3409

Peter Rhea wrote: »

Can tuner 2 handle DiSEqC? Has anyone actually set this up & tested it, or is it a work in progress?

I would assume so. It's a hidden feature on the box. Have you evidence otherwise? I see reports of people using it with other satellites.

Peter Rhea

I know the Foxsat has some DiSEqC ability. I was just wondering if both tuners can switch between sat. positions or is tuner 2 limited to one position. I have no evidence one way or another.

dharn

i dont know peter, it is a work in progress. very slow the weather is so bad, i have the dish mounting bracket up and the cables fed in to the attic the dish assembled and the lnbs fitted waiting fo ra sat finder to arrive, so the moment of truth is coming closer for me, will keep progress updated thanks to all posters so far , keep them coming

Ronnie Raygun

As it would seem you're the 1st here to actually try to set up a Foxsat in this manner, with a diseqc switch for each tuner, I can't understand why others have already offered "advice" & posted diagrams for systems based purely on assumptions that are at best merely informed by experience with other receivers.

watty

It would be bizarre if it didn't work as suggested (both tuners supporting diseqc). It's just about 99.9% certain that for proper operation you need either a Diseqc for each port (all wired the same and 28.2 on port1) or a multiswitch.

Sometimes assumptions are based on an understanding of "how stuff works". If it doesn't work as suggested it's essentially broken firmware. The idea of a multiswitch or diseqc per tuner is also the most flexible method which can be adapted to work even with "broken" firmware.

If a tuner doesn't support Diseqc at all (eg Sky box), and is connected to a Multiswitch or Diseqc output you will get Port 1 (= AA, 1A, A1, 11 etc) by default.

dharn

Ronnie Raygun wrote: »

As it would seem you're the 1st here to actually try to set up a Foxsat in this manner, with a diseqc switch for each tuner, I can't understand why others have already offered "advice" & posted diagrams for systems based purely on assumptions that are at best merely informed by experience with other receivers.

i think a board member called ida has already put 4 lnb feed on a humax i would hate to think that someone with my level of experience in satellite setup would be the first to try this, but to clarify what i am basically trying to achieve is have the rtes, bbcs etc all on one epg and even better if i can set up scheduled recording of programmes from each, though i feel i may not be able to record off the saorsat lnb or do series link

dharn

watty wrote: »

It would be bizarre if it didn't work as suggested (both tuners supporting diseqc). It's just about 99.9% certain that for proper operation you need either a Diseqc for each port (all wired the same and 28.2 on port1) or a multiswitch.

Sometimes assumptions are based on an understanding of "how stuff works". If it doesn't work as suggested it's essentially broken firmware. The idea of a multiswitch or diseqc per tuner is also the most flexible method which can be adapted to work even with "broken" firmware.

If a tuner doesn't support Diseqc at all (eg Sky box), and is connected to a Multiswitch or Diseqc output you will get Port 1 (= AA, 1A, A1, 11 etc) by default.

humax definitely supports diseq but not out of the box perhaps

excollier

dharn wrote: »

i think a board member called ida has already put 4 lnb feed on a humax i would hate to think that someone with my level of experience in satellite setup would be the first to try this, but to clarify what i am basically trying to achieve is have the rtes, bbcs etc all on one epg and even better if i can set up scheduled recording of programmes from each, though i feel i may not be able to record off the saorsat lnb or do series link

You definitely won't be able to do a series link on anything other than freesat channels, even out of region freesat channels cannot be series linked when added to the freesat channel list. I added ITV1 HD along with a couple of others, and they are assigned a number in the 5000's. You wont even be able to do a timed recording from the epg, but you can set a manual timer for them, even from the Saorsat (or any other sat) lnb.
At the end of the day Saorsat is just another lnb to the receiver.
This is still, with it's limitations, one of the most flexible non generic receivers out.
there.
Take a good read through AV Forums Freesat section, all the info will be there somewhere, some on there have done all this (Saorsat excepted) long ago.

dharn

thanks for that, ex , even if i apply the radon patch does all the above hold true ( Hope you know what i mean by the radon patch )

excollier

You will need to apply Raydon's software before you can edit your freesat list to include non-freesat channels. They will be stored at number 5000 upwards.

watty

dharn wrote: »

humax definitely supports diseq but not out of the box perhaps

It supports Diseqc only in non-Freesat mode (without patches, out of the box), hence Freesat channels must be on port 1 (only resets to port1 without a command with a power cycle).

The "patch" seems to allow diseqc and non-freesat channels without having to leave freesat mode. (via Digitalspy )

Some Freesat HD models (Sagem?) don't support Disqec at all, even in "non-Freesat" mode.

It's only firmware for ANY model to do Diseqc as the 22kHz used for High / Low band switching is "pulsed" to send Diseqc commands. So even any Sky box can do it and automatically enabled over the air, if sky wanted it.

The EU should make it mandatory as it's only a simple software update and the very cheapest generic boxes do support a basic 4 way switch. Other Channels was made mandatory after a German PayTV operator lost a court case, but Freesat and Sky pay lipservice to that. On Sky it's really only working properly for DVB-S and not DVB-S2 and they never allowed SR entry, only two options.

It's a shame.

excollier

"A shame?" For Sky it makes perfect sense, they don't want their customers discovering that they can actually watch stuff for free that they (Sky) charge for (F1 for example) by being able to use their box to switch to foreign satellites at will.
Most of Sky's customers dont even realise that there is an alternative to Sky for satellite tv, even for the Astra 2 fta stuff. They blindly keep paying a sub for the UK fta channels, thinking that they have something wonderful.
Yes, it is a shame.
So, good for Humax (and freesat for allowing it) that their receiver is patchable for these reasons, along with other functions.
You may detect some contempt from me for Sky

dharn

excollier wrote: »

"A shame?" For Sky it makes perfect sense, they don't want their customers discovering that they can actually watch stuff for free that they (Sky) charge for (F1 for example) by being able to use their box to switch to foreign satellites at will.
Most of Sky's customers dont even realise that there is an alternative to Sky for satellite tv, even for the Astra 2 fta stuff. They blindly keep paying a sub for the UK fta channels, thinking that they have something wonderful.
Yes, it is a shame.
So, good for Humax (and freesat for allowing it) that their receiver is patchable for these reasons, along with other functions.
You may detect some contempt from me for Sky

yes ex i, have never used sky but hate them anyway ! i could watch golf regularly on bbc a few years ago now sky have it all mopped up they have huge monopoly on world sport which is very unfair, the amount of money involved has ruined soccer in uk, but im not really a soccer fan anyway

dharn

thanks everyone for posts and information,UPDATE.. I Have the dish mounted will soon be trying to find signal, then trying to setup the box with my homcinema receiver another pain !!

dharn

sorry.. another question ..is it advisable to add the radon patch to a new box, or get it running first as its meant to , then tinker around with it later, some say it invalidates the warranty, if i ran in to trouble would a factory reset remove evidence of the software download ?
I would hate to invalidate the warranty on a brand new box on the first day i tried to use it

swoofer

you are doing well, i was away, set it up first using exsiting box functions, once that is working you can move on. what is the make of the home cinema receiver?

dharn

Denon avr 2311, i have connected the hdmi out to hdmi 3 on the amp and of course it will not detect the input, always a pain to get it going the most confusing instruction on earth, hdmi input assignment etc but im now stuck with the humax going from boot to wizard and then no further on its own front display, so dont know whats happening there, it also say 576i on the display but thats it...was hoping to use it to power the sat finder as you have to , but when i turned it on i expected to have to put in post code etc but it did not take me that far

zg3409

dharn wrote: »

im now stuck with the humax going from boot to wizard and then no further on its own front display

Normally FreeSAT boxes need a working satellite signal to set themselves up, as they get information from the Satellite.

Best to use a non Sky receiver first. Ideally pre-tune the receiver to say Sky News on a working dish first and then align dish until you see Sky news.

dharn

thanks zg, i had decided to try and find saorsat first ,the receiver is powering the satfinder and i was getting a signal on it which i had gotten to its max on the ku lnb, but no response from the reciever so i might try and set up 28e tomorrow, i am probably trying to do everything the hard way !! this was with the cable going directly from lnb through sat finder to wall plate and lead from there to reciever, no diseq etc involved as it was powering the satfinder something is happening !

Capt'n Midnight

dharn wrote: »

thanks zg, i had decided to try and find saorsat first ,the receiver is powering the satfinder and i was getting a signal on it which i had gotten to its max on the ku lnb, but no response from the reciever so i might try and set up 28e tomorrow, i am probably trying to do everything the hard way !! this was with the cable going directly from lnb through sat finder to wall plate and lead from there to reciever, no diseq etc involved as it was powering the satfinder something is happening !

print out a page from www.satfinder.com or www.dishpointer.com - on the offchance you are pointing at the next satellite over

as for wall plate - unless it's a very good one you are better off drilling an 11? mm hole in the metal plate and using an F connector barrel instead.

if you can see the TV from where you align the dish (rare ) then you could set up the receiver to show signal / quality (see its manual)

dharn

thanks for that, i had the dish aimed slightly east of south, and with the satfinder inline, swung slowly east i had the elevation set as per the require 27 degs the finder started to squeal and the needle wet to the max so i turned down the gain to half way and again adjusted the need le went up turned it down again and gained a little more adjusted the elevation slightly more gain this was with the saorsat lnb which i did not expect to receive any signal if i was not on 9e as it is ku band but the receiver is unresponsive no on screen display i have connected it via hdmi to av amp but i will connect it directly to the telly tomorrow and select that input i will know then if the receiver is putting out osd , will probably replace wall plate connection also

dharn

i am still confused as to why the receiver does at least get to the point of saying no signal, if it needs one to setup

zg3409

FreeSat gets the info on what channel is where from the Satellite. With no signal it cannot tell where to look for channels, hence no reason to say no signal on the channel.

Ideally you would use professional gear. As I said before setup FeeeSAT first and confirm that is working 100%

dharn

UPDATE.. The receiver is now working as i expected, does not need sat feed to start up, but hdmi handshake problem arose, i had it connected to av amp and av amp to tv via hdmi, but amp could not see the humax so nothing happening, connected the humax directly to tv with hdmi and on screen display was there so i could go through setup menu , so busy day tomorrow !!

dharn

More progress... i started trying to find 9e and failed then with the other lnb started to look for 28e with the lnb on the end of the triax lmulti lnb arm guessing roughly where it should be got 19e first then after much moving over and back i got 28e and all freesat channels so now i have freesat with the lnb off to one side so i dont know where exactly the dish is pointing and when it try to get 9e i will lose 28e im sure

swoofer

you are doing well so far, to get 9e its easier if you can use the usual lnb and pick up a fta channel, the way you are trying it means both lnb's on the holder will be offset, so say centre of lnb ARM points at 19east then you will have 9 and 28 either side by moving lnb's and tilting holder.

are you working on it now as its a nice day, there should be images about showing the lnb set up. If you want a channel on 9e I can give you frequency etc and you do know the frequency for saorsat?

If you have spare lnbs try for 19 east without moving anthing.

There are quite a few posts on here about getting both but with 90cm it will be tricky and need patience. I found this post.
It all works now.

"For anybody doing this in the future. I pointed the dish at 19e and then adjusted the lnbs on either side. It takes a lot of patience but it does work."

gbc

Capt'n Midnight

Ignore if you have bought a special KU LNB recently. (~€35)

Just to be clear.

You need a special KA LNB to get Saorsat as it's spot on 9E uses circular polarisation (Mmmm to the left, to the left) at a frequency of 20.185GHz

A standard KU LNB will give you a choice of H or V polarisation on frequencies between 10.7 and 12.75 GHz

The frequencies are so far apart you can get special mirrors that can split KA and KU signals , one goes straight through while the other is reflected.

dharn

ya have special saorsat approved lnb thanks for your post

watty

With only 90Cm I would point dish and LOCK it at best signal for 13E. Then Adjust on multi-LNB Arm for 28E and 9E,

You need a new hole on the multi-LNB bracket about 1/3rd along rather than middle.



Left is 28E and Right is 9E. Dish pointed at 16E. But that is a slightly bigger dish than standard 90cm, was supplied by SES-Astra.

Note the angle of bracket. hole in BOTTOM of rail used so as to get enough tilt for 28E and 9E at same time (the bar would be level if the dish was pointing at 8W and the extreme LNBs on 16W and 1W approx.)

dharn

thanks watty what elevation should the dish be set at, saorsat needs 27 freesat needs 20

Capt'n Midnight

dharn wrote: »

ya have special saorsat approved lnb thanks for your post

NP, just asking the stupid question

and leaving breadcrumbs for people who jump into the middle of a thread

dharn

no bother i prefer so see a helpful reply than none, if any mod is reading this can it be put up as a sticky as i feel there is much interest in this subject at present