Who do you want to win the WDC: Vettel or Alonso?

Daniel S

Well it has all come down to the final race again. Who do you want to win?


Always hated Alonso, he started to grow on me this year. What he did in the first half of the season with the Ferrari as brilliant. Dislike him again.

Always liked Vettel, I really think he has the capability of winning more titles than Schumacher.

From Sky sports:

Here's what the two drivers must each do to become World Champion for the third time in their career...

Sebastian Vettel will win the title if...
* He finishes in fourth place or higher even if Alonso wins.
* He finishes seventh or higher if Alonso is second or lower.
* He finishes ninth or higher if Alonso is third or lower.
* Alonso doesn't finish on the podium.

Fernando Alonso will win the title if...
* He wins and Vettel is fifth or lower.
* He finishes second and Vettel is eighth or lower.
* He finishes on the podium and Vettel is tenth or lower.

Were the drivers to finish with the same number of points, Vettel would win the title having won more races.

wobbles

Cant stand Alonso. He has got this attitude about him that really bugs me, so I hope Vettel wins it. While i admire his abilitys, that alone can not change my mind over him

In saying that, Vettel would be the second last person on the entire grid who id like to see win it. Its a team game, but when he wins, its his win, when he loses, its the teams fault. I think in a few years, we will be seeing his name on the record sheets surpassing some Schumachers records though.

donspeekinglesh

Alonso
I think Vettel comes across as a nicer person, but they're both a bit whiney.
I think Alonso deserves the title more, I think he's a better driver, and if he wins it'll go down as one of the greatest championship wins ever.

ScumLord

Either of them are deserving of winning the championship, both are outstanding drivers but I'm backing Alonso I think overall he's just that much better than Vettle or maybe I just like him because he's the underdog and has had to be a better driver just to keep up. Vettle just seems to have everything to easy, most things just seem to go his way. I'm sure it takes a tremendous amount of work for him to make it look that easy but I'm still not ready to see a German winning everything so easily.

antodeco

Can I vote for Schumacher?

/wipes away tear

YbFocus

I would like to see fernando win for the simple reason I hate you sebastian, I HATE YOU!!!!!!

Also would be a pretty thrilling race I would imagine!

Frank Bullitt

Would and hope to see Alonso win it.

He has been nothing short of spectacular this year, and the fact that he is still in with a shout of it is remarkable.

Autosport

Voted for Alonso, He has drove that dog of a car and got himself up there fighting for the championship, Was a fan of his when he drove for Renault and i personally think he changed for the worst when he went to Ferrari.

I'd like Vettel if he would stop pointing that fecking finger but he's young and if he doesnt win this year he will win again.

Would rather if Button or Webber won :-D

freestyla

voted Alfonso just for a change. Nuf of energy drink junkies!

Both drivers attitude bothers me from time to time but again both are super racers too. Liked 2012 season a lot in overall!

Hopefully this winter will have some frequent news about 2013 cars progress, who will buy HRT, will Lotus get their finance boosted, Kovalainen out / Bottas in, will Ferrari build new wind tunnel.. who is the next women/chinese/american...F1 driver, and who F1 driver will drive reasonably priced car next?

Daniel S

freestyla wrote: »

voted Alfonso just for a change. Nuf of energy drink junkies!

Both drivers attitude bothers me from time to time but again both are super racers too. Liked 2012 season a lot in overall!

Hopefully this winter will have some frequent news about 2013 cars progress, who will buy HRT, will Lotus get their finance boosted, Kovalainen out / Bottas in, will Ferrari build new wind tunnel.. who is the next women/chinese/american...F1 driver, and who F1 driver will drive reasonably priced car next?

I'd put money on Bottas getting it, provided he gets the shot at F1. Maybe Bruno Senna if he can keep a seat.

the culture of deference

5 races ago Alonso was 45 points ahead of Seb.

I feel Alonso deserves his 3rd title, it would be bittersweet for him to steal this one back off Seb. In 2010 Seb was 15 points behind FA going into the final race, now FA is 13 behind Seb.

I agree with other's here about SV. He has had it all too easy. He need's to be in the 4th fastest car for the next 2-3 years and be forced to struggle. Then he can start winning again.

Lewis should have champion this year.
Here is a quick breakdown of his seasons ills.
Lots of points lost.


Hamilton qualified in second place in Bahrain, but during the race, a series of poor pitstops put him out of contention

pole position for the Spanish Grand Prix, but fuel regs demoted him to the back of the grid;

Hamilton was taken out by Romain Grosjean at the first corner of the Belgian Grand Prix,

Hamilton again qualified on pole at the Singapore Grand Prix, but suffered a gearbox failure whilst leading the race.

Korea an anti-roll bar on his McLaren failed

Abu dhabi
Hamilton suffered another mechanical failure while leading the race,

paddy147

Vettel all the way...especially after the way Ferrari fcuked Massa over again.

Id love to see Alonso loose to Vettel by 1 single point,just to make him and Ferrari feel even more gutted.


Im sure Massa might have a small smirk on his face at that too.:D

Donnelly117

the culture of deference wrote: »

5 races ago Alonso was 45 points ahead of Seb.

I feel Alonso deserves his 3rd title, it would be bittersweet for him to steal this one back off Seb. In 2010 Seb was 15 points behind FA going into the final race, now FA is 13 behind Seb.

I agree with other's here about SV. He has had it all too easy. He need's to be in the 4th fastest car for the next 2-3 years and be forced to struggle. Then he can start winning again.

Lewis should have champion this year.
Here is a quick breakdown of his seasons ills.
Lots of points lost.


Hamilton qualified in second place in Bahrain, but during the race, a series of poor pitstops put him out of contention

pole position for the Spanish Grand Prix, but fuel regs demoted him to the back of the grid;

Hamilton was taken out by Romain Grosjean at the first corner of the Belgian Grand Prix,

Hamilton again qualified on pole at the Singapore Grand Prix, but suffered a gearbox failure whilst leading the race.

Korea an anti-roll bar on his McLaren failed

Abu dhabi
Hamilton suffered another mechanical failure while leading the race,

Maldonado took him out of third place in Valencia too...would have loved to see what Lewis could have done in a reliable McLaren with the pit crew he has had recently

ratedR

Alonso all the way. I like both drivers, but Alonso deserves his third title.

Im fairly sick of the Red Bull dominance, and with Hammy off to Merc next year, I'm fairly certain it'll be either Alonso or Vettel as main title contenders. Vettels good, but 4 time champion good ??

It should be Hamiltons title though. McLaren must be sick at the thought of the next few years. I cant see Button or Perez winning any titles for them.

kirving

Sick of Red Bull tbh, so it has to be Ferrari!

I still think Massa was hard done by in 2008 since he had more wins than Hamilton that season, so Ferrari could do with a drivers title to liven them up a bit.

Myrddin

Are people forgetting when Mark Webbers brand new prototype front wing was physically taken off his car & given to Vettel, in order to aid his championship bid??

Yeah, didn't quite work out for them as Webber won with the old wing...but nonetheless, you'd swear Ferrari were the only ones who push like this

paddy147

EnterNow wrote: »

Are people forgetting when Mark Webbers brand new prototype front wing was physically taken off his car & given to Vettel, in order to aid his championship bid??

Yeah, didn't quite work out for them as Webber won with the old wing...but nonetheless, you'd swear Ferrari were the only ones who push like this

Possible scenario here for the Brazil GP.


Webber quallifies ahead of Vettel.

Red Bull "sudenly" find a gearbox fault with Webbers car and he gets a 5 place penalty.

Vettel automaticly then moves up 1 place.

Alonso goes and wins the race.

But by moving up 1 place on the starting grid,this helps Vettel to win the drivers title by 1 single point.


Wonder if Ferrari would throw their toys out of the pram at this,if it were to happen???:pac::pac::D

ratedR

ratedR wrote: »

McLaren must be sick at the thought of the next few years. I cant see Button or Perez winning any titles for them.

If all the teams make incremental improvements and it "makes sense" I can honestly see Button being second behind Red Bull again. Perez is supposedly a similar driver to Button so they should be able to make the car fundamentally aggressive rather than just on set-up for one car. People seem to forget that in the almost 3 seasons at McLaren so far Hamilton has scored just 10 points more than Button. A quick glance shows 2 retirements apiece in 2010 and 2011 that weren't down to driver error and just counting the ones that cost points this season it's roughly 5-3 to Hamilton, Button's had others when already out of the points. I think 3 seasons is long enough to make a fair comparison and those who reckoned Button would get embarrassed or humbled by moving to McLaren have been shown to be completely wrong IMO.



Anyway I'm hoping Alonso wins it but it's Vettel/Red Bull's to lose at this stage.

Daniel S

paddy147 wrote: »

Possible scenario here for the Brazil GP.


Webber quallifies ahead of Vettel.

Red Bull "sudenly" find a gearbox fault with Webbers car and he gets a 5 place penalty.

Vettel automaticly then moves up 1 place.

Alonso goes and wins the race.

But by moving up 1 place on the starting grid,this helps Vettel to win the drivers title by 1 single point.


Wonder if Ferrari would throw their toys out of the pram at this,if it were to happen???:pac::pac::D

I really hope this comes true!

ratedR

Deleted User wrote: »

If all the teams make incremental improvements and it "makes sense" I can honestly see Button being second behind Red Bull again. Perez is supposedly a similar driver to Button so they should be able to make the car fundamentally aggressive rather than just on set-up for one car. People seem to forget that in the almost 3 seasons at McLaren so far Hamilton has scored just 10 points more than Button. A quick glance shows 2 retirements apiece in 2010 and 2011 that weren't down to driver error and just counting the ones that cost points this season it's roughly 5-3 to Hamilton, Button's had others when already out of the points. I think 3 seasons is long enough to make a fair comparison and those who reckoned Button would get embarrassed or humbled by moving to McLaren have been shown to be completely wrong IMO.



Anyway I'm hoping Alonso wins it but it's Vettel/Red Bull's to lose at this stage.

I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make there about Button ?
I like Button, I think he's a solid driver but I just think he'll probably never win another title. He'll win more races, but I just don't think he has that extra edge that the likes of Hamilton has to go and fight for a title. He certainly didn't get embarrassed by Hamilton though over the past 3 years, credit to him, but I never eluded to that either.

the culture of deference

paddy147 wrote: »

Possible scenario here for the Brazil GP.


Webber quallifies ahead of Vettel.

Red Bull "sudenly" find a gearbox fault with Webbers car and he gets a 5 place penalty.

Vettel automaticly then moves up 1 place.

Alonso goes and wins the race.

But by moving up 1 place on the starting grid,this helps Vettel to win the drivers title by 1 single point.


Wonder if Ferrari would throw their toys out of the pram at this,if it were to happen???:pac::pac::D

Nice. here is my scenario

RB sacrifice webber as you suggest.

During the race Seb has an Alt failure. But because Webber had grid penalty he can only finish 3rd.

Ferrari finish 1-2 and on last lap Alonso allows Massa pass for the win.

Alonso is the champ

the culture of deference

What if Massa was leading in Brazil and ferrari had to ask him to let alonso by for a chance at the championship?

eg. Vettel in 7th on the last lap FA 2nd, Massa leading, but Seb quickly catching 6th and 5th place

Daniel S

the culture of deference wrote: »

What if Massa was leading in Brazil and ferrari had to ask him to let alonso by for a chance at the championship?

eg. Vettel in 7th on the last lap FA 2nd, Massa leading, but Seb quickly catching 6th and 5th place

Shouldn't be any doubt in anyone's mind. Ferrari would absolutely do it. No question about it.

Andrew76

the culture of deference wrote: »

What if Massa was leading in Brazil and ferrari had to ask him to let alonso by for a chance at the championship?

eg. Vettel in 7th on the last lap FA 2nd, Massa leading, but Seb quickly catching 6th and 5th place

Didn't they already do this in 2007? Asked Massa to let Kimi pass and he went on to win the title by a point. Unless my memory is failing me. McLaren did it too in the Hakkinen/Coulthard years I think - any top team with a clear No. 1 fighting for the title would.

I genuinely don't mind who wins the title, both brilliant drivers. For the sake of the vote I chose Alonso - I think because he has less years left in F1 and I'd like to see him get a 3rd title. Vettel I think may win several more regardless of this year's outcome.

Andrew76

Andrew76 wrote: »

Didn't they already do this in 2007? Asked Massa to let Kimi pass and he went on to win the title by a point. Unless my memory is failing me.

Nah Kimi had better pit strategy

Richard Hillman

I dont mind Vettel, he's a likable chap but I want Alonso to win.

lolie

Dont mind who wins it as either would be deserving of it, alonso slightly more so.
Its just a pity there was so little wheel to wheel racing between the two of them this year.

jordainius

I wouldn't like to see what I only consider to be at most the third best driver of this current generation win three titles in a row, Red Bulls domination is really getting boring now.

Vettel and his tantrums have really started to irritate me this year; his whinging like a little bitch when Hamilton overtook him last time out was cringeworthy. He's like a spoilt brat who is too used to getting everything his own way. Needs to be taken down a peg or two!

Won't happen though- he'll stroll to this title; and he'll stroll to a lot more unless Ferrari build a car to equal Red Bull sometime soon.

antomorro-sei

Hopefully Alonso.

Reckon it'll be Seb though, and if he does win it, I think the Belgian GP will stick out as the turning point in the Championship. Hopefully I'm wrong though, and Alonso goes on to win next week.

Agree with some of the above posters that Lewis would have been Champion had his McLaren been more reliable. Pity.

Really looking forward to the Grand Prix!



Also, can anyone tell me, rules wise, what would happen if Massa just smashed Vettel out of it in the race? Presumeably, Alonso gets deducted points for being on the same team, yeah?

Tea 1000

jordainius wrote: »

I wouldn't like to see what I only consider to be at most the third best driver of this current generation win three titles in a row, Red Bulls domination is really getting boring now.

Vettel and his tantrums have really started to irritate me this year; his whinging like a little bitch when Hamilton overtook him last time out was cringeworthy. He's like a spoilt brat who is too used to getting everything his own way. Needs to be taken down a peg or two!

Won't happen though- he'll stroll to this title; and he'll stroll to a lot more unless Ferrari build a car to equal Red Bull sometime soon.

I'd disagree with all of this. I think he's very close to Alonso overall, a match on skill but Alonso is now a more rounded driver due to age and experience, which will come to Vettel. He doesn't have tantrums anywhere like the ones Hamilton has, and Hamilton is just too much of a liability to have in a team. Hamilton is the spoilt brat on the grid, and has proven that many times. Vettel gets whingy alright, but nothing like the other clown.

De Hipster

jordainius wrote: »

... his whinging like a little bitch [...] He's like a spoilt brat who is too used to getting everything his own way. Needs to be taken down a peg or two!

Ironically, you have just exactly described Alonso from my perspective!

donspeekinglesh

What are generally considered the three best drivers on the grid, are also considered the three biggest moans too.

Jordan 199

Tea 1000 wrote: »

I'd disagree with all of this. I think he's very close to Alonso overall, a match on skill but Alonso is now a more rounded driver due to age and experience, which will come to Vettel. He doesn't have tantrums anywhere like the ones Hamilton has, and Hamilton is just too much of a liability to have in a team. Hamilton is the spoilt brat on the grid, and has proven that many times. Vettel gets whingy alright, but nothing like the other clown.

Your Hamilton hating posts are so very boring. Give it up you troll.

the culture of deference

Tea 1000 wrote: »

I'd disagree with all of this. I think he's very close to Alonso overall, a match on skill but Alonso is now a more rounded driver due to age and experience, which will come to Vettel. .

I agree with the 1st part of your post.

Tea 1000 wrote: »

Hamilton is just too much of a liability to have in a team. Hamilton is the spoilt brat on the grid, and has proven that many times. Vettel gets whingy alright, but nothing like the other clown.

How is he a liability?
Lewis is an amazing driver as is SV and FA. He can drive a bad car faster.

Lewis should have won the championship in 2007 first time out but his team let him down. FFS Kimi needed 2 wins and lewis to score less than 3 points in 2 races.

Same again in 2010, and then same again this year. With reliability Hamilton would be a 4 time champ this year. That has to hurt him.

jordainius

De Hipster wrote: »

Ironically, you have just exactly described Alonso from my perspective!

Well, Alonso does have an element of that; his behaviour when Hamilton was his team mate really turned me off Alonso.

But, Vettel has done a ridiculous amount of moaning this year. Alonso seems to be getting a bit calmer with old age!

Myrddin

During the COTA, did Vettel shout something like "...finished with Formula 1!!" when he lost the place to Hamilton?

De Hipster

jordainius wrote: »

Well, Alonso does have an element of that; his behaviour when Hamilton was his team mate really turned me off Alonso.

But, Vettel has done a ridiculous amount of moaning this year. Alonso seems to be getting a bit calmer with old age!

Calmer?! - I assumed that his whining has finally paid off & Rob Smedley is regularly taking preventative action to avoid having to listen to his bitching! He doesn't get the chance to whine, Ferrari snap to it before the radio connection is made...

"Alonso is faster than you..."

Tea 1000

Jordan 191 wrote: »

Your Hamilton hating posts are so very boring. Give it up you troll.

Good, quality reply there. Well done you. Back you go to your Vettel hating posts!

the culture of deference wrote: »

I agree with the 1st part of your post.



How is he a liability?
Lewis is an amazing driver as is SV and FA. He can drive a bad car faster.

Lewis should have won the championship in 2007 first time out but his team let him down. FFS Kimi needed 2 wins and lewis to score less than 3 points in 2 races.

Same again in 2010, and then same again this year. With reliability Hamilton would be a 4 time champ this year. That has to hurt him.

Tweeting secret data from the team? Blaming the team and publicly slating them and the car in interviews when the car was a ball f crap, and getting himself into trouble with the stewards quite regularly around the same period and blaming everyone else, last year every time he opened his mouth in an interview it was only to change feet it seemed. Telling Ron Dennis "don't ever do that to me again" in his rookie season? He even tweeted that he was very disappointed that Jenson unfollowed him on twitter after he announced his move to Merc, then had to withdraw when he discovered that Jenson in fact was never following him! He even fell out with Button this year, something that no one else has done in Button's 12 odd years in the sport. Even his interviews about him and the relationship with the team, he's proud that he goes to all the Engineers all the time asking them "what's that part going to do for me, and when will it be ready? Can we have it ready sooner?". He thinks that's what a driver helping to develop the team and car around them is all about. That's just being an ass really.
No doubting that he's quick, but given his pace he should have been much farther ahead of Button over the last 3 years. Webber is a decent driver, but Vettel has put a good gap between them this last two years, something we haven't really seen since Schumacher in his Ferrari days.

Tea 1000

De Hipster wrote: »

Calmer?! - I assumed that his whining has finally paid off & Rob Smedley is regularly taking preventative action to avoid having to listen to his bitching! He doesn't get the chance to whine, Ferrari snap to it before the radio connection is made...

"Alonso is faster than you..."

I'd agree actually, Alonso is well able to whine.

Frank Bullitt

Its an interesting discussion about who out of the common 3 (Alonso, Vettel and Hamilton).

I would say that they are both the best 3 in F1, but in what order is a matter of opinion.

In mine, it's Alonso by a mile, he has matured and calmed quite a bit since 07, as had Hamilton, but where as Vettel and Hamilton have had the fastest car under them this year on a few occasions, Alonso hasn't, in normal conditions. Yet here we are on the eve of the final race and he is in with a shout, its a long shot but he is still in it.

He has man handled the car all year and for me he deserves it for that alone. Vettel has comfortably had the fastest or there abouts car under him for a good few races now, gets it on pole and is then never troubled, it's impressive, but I prefer watch the Spaniard wrestle his car to the podium.

Whatever about your personal opinion of him, his skill is immense, he is always thinking of what might happen and when while driving his car at 120%. An article recently said that if you were somehow able to mix Senna and Prost together, then you would get Alonso, interesting to say the least.

StephenHendry

would like to see Fernando win it, he hasn't had the best car all season and has done brilliantly to keep himself in there to the last race, his performances have been up there with some of schumis wc wins, prost wc in 86 would be similar if fernando was to win the wc in 12

the culture of deference

Gintonious wrote: »

He has man handled the car all year and for me he deserves it for that alone. Vettel has comfortably had the fastest or there abouts car under him for a good few races now,.

Alonso has had a good season but he was 45 points ahead of Vettel 5 races ago.

Frank Bullitt

the culture of deference wrote: »

Alonso has had a good season but he was 45 points ahead of Vettel 5 races ago.

That was taking advantage of others slipping up, it eventually caught up on in though. Spa I think was just an accident, nothing he could have done, and Japan was a result of bad qualifying, the Achilles heal of the Ferrari all season in normal conditions.

Myrddin

the culture of deference wrote: »

Alonso has had a good season but he was 45 points ahead of Vettel 5 races ago.

Alonso was wiped out once at the start of a race, he also had that incident with Kimi...Hamilton was robbed of a few race wins thus gifting them to Vettel. Vettel gets a stupid amount of good fortune at times. Yes he had that alternator failure, but in comparison to others, he's gotten away very lightly

Jordan 199

Tea 1000 wrote: »

Good, quality reply there. Well done you. Back you go to your Vettel hating posts!

Point out where I posted Vettel hating posts so.

corkboy10

i'll stop watching f1 if vettel wins again,its a carbon copy of the schumacher-ferrari years of 2000-04 BORING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! put vettel in a HRT and see how he gets on!!!!i remember a certain Mr Alonso driving a minardi and showing up quite a few people in it,even when SV was driving the toro rosso it was designed by none other than Adrian Newey at the time,the man needs a real challenge and before you say it abu dhabi was a fluke from 24th to 3rd,

Myrddin

corkboy10 wrote: »

before you say it abu dhabi was a fluke from 24th to 3rd,

Well I don't think you could call it a fluke, but apart from the Button pass, it was all a bit effortless really

Tea 1000

Gintonious wrote: »

Its an interesting discussion about who out of the common 3 (Alonso, Vettel and Hamilton).

I would say that they are both the best 3 in F1, but in what order is a matter of opinion.

In mine, it's Alonso by a mile, he has matured and calmed quite a bit since 07, as had Hamilton, but where as Vettel and Hamilton have had the fastest car under them this year on a few occasions, Alonso hasn't, in normal conditions. Yet here we are on the eve of the final race and he is in with a shout, its a long shot but he is still in it.

He has man handled the car all year and for me he deserves it for that alone. Vettel has comfortably had the fastest or there abouts car under him for a good few races now, gets it on pole and is then never troubled, it's impressive, but I prefer watch the Spaniard wrestle his car to the podium.

Whatever about your personal opinion of him, his skill is immense, he is always thinking of what might happen and when while driving his car at 120%. An article recently said that if you were somehow able to mix Senna and Prost together, then you would get Alonso, interesting to say the least.

I think Kimi is as quick, but just doesn't seem as committed as the other 3. Kubica would certainly have been in the mix had he not had the accident, I always felt he was a very balanced guy, both on and off the track.
I'm not sure about Alonso having a pure dog of a car all year though, it wasn't as bad as people think for some races. Plus neither Senna nor Prost would have been beaten by Massa as often as Fernando has, so calling him a mix of both drivers is overstating it a bit. But I do see where the idea is coming from alright. He does have a talent for grabbing a car and driving the nuts off it, yet in a kind of an orchestrated manner! Schumacher to be fair had similar traits, but you need to go back to the mid-90's to see it, as from around 2000 onwards the Ferrari was a gem.

De Hipster

EnterNow wrote: »

Vettel gets a stupid amount of good fortune at times.

...or talented and clever enough to avoid the mayhem of wrecking, unlike others?!

Myrddin

De Hipster wrote: »

...or talented and clever enough to avoid the mayhem of wrecking, unlike others?!

Must be that yeah

EvilMonkey

jordainius wrote: »

I wouldn't like to see what I only consider to be at most the third best driver of this current generation win three titles in a row, Red Bulls domination is really getting boring now.

I would say second best, and probably best by the time he is Alonsos age. Alonso and Hamilton want to win championships, Vettels ambition is to smash all Schumacher's records

Vettel and his tantrums have really started to irritate me this year; his whinging like a little bitch when Hamilton overtook him last time out was cringeworthy. He's like a spoilt brat who is too used to getting everything his own way. Needs to be taken down a peg or two!

Are you serious? He is aloud to be pissed off when he is held up, Show me a F1 driver who isint. He also pulled up along side Hamilton and applauded him at the finish line. I would say after Kimi, vettel is the least whingest on the current grid.

Won't happen though- he'll stroll to this title; and he'll stroll to a lot more unless Ferrari build a car to equal Red Bull sometime soon.

Just before he signs for them :pac:

the culture of deference wrote: »

Lewis should have won the championship in 2007 first time out but his team let him down. FFS Kimi needed 2 wins and lewis to score less than 3 points in 2 races.

Same again in 2010, and then same again this year. With reliability Hamilton would be a 4 time champ this year. That has to hurt him.

It wasent McLarren that made him turn on the pit lane speed limiter mid race, and panic trynd to turn it off or stay out for too long on dry tyres and crash on an in lap, thinking he was the new rainmaster.

Vettel has had 2 alternator failures and his team under fuelled the car causing him to miss out on a certain win. Alonso was taken out of two races where he would have scored decent points, its not just Hamilton.

EnterNow wrote: »

Must be that yeah

You could fill a thread full of pictures of Schumacher, Hamilton, Button, Vettel, Alonso etc doing stupid things. :P