Support based on geography

Ares

Why is it that people in Ireland, generally, support based exclusively on geography?

In Limerick and Dublin its not where you're from that decides your club yet it does so at provincial level.

People should be able to pick and choose based on whatever affinity they have for the club. Now I accept that many people are tribal in nature and because that they're from a certain place means that they must support a certain team but there are other reasons that one would be drawn to a club, be it the colour of a jersey, the style of play to the political background of the club.

I know of three people who don't support the province that they hail from, one is a Catholic from Derry who supports Connaught, another is a Munsterman who prefers the style of play of Leinster and he doesn't like the country bandwagon support that Munster attracted since the year 2000 while the final man has an issue with the upper class snobbery of Leinster rugby and idetifies more with the gritty underside of Limerick city and rugby in general.

Now all three of these are regular match going supporters who travel from their native areas up to games of the teams that they follow. Yet they are looked on derisively by those of their province who believe in the parochialism that one must follow the local team.

I personally think this is wrong. But others I've talked to don't agree with me. Why should people naively follow the local team for no other reason than geography?

ulster_Beef

I really dont know where this post is going, sorry :S

"Why should people naively follow the local team for no other reason than geography?" I really dont understand that. Why wouldnt you support your local team.

I am from Ulster, so I support Ulster. Not because I have to but because I want to. Same way as I am from Ireland so I support Irish rugby. Without being political here.....As for your friend from Londonderry/ Derry. No disrespect intended here but not supporting Ulster because he is a catholic is a strange excuse. Rugby is NOT sectarian. I have friends from both backgrounds that attend Ulster games.... Some even play GAA. I suspect there are other issues in place there... his choice though. Although I DO NOT agree with the flying of the N.I flag at Ulster games.... N.I is in Ulster and the red and yellow flag of Ulster should be flew.

Unfortunately, dragging religion into rugby, especially up here in N.I is not going to achieve anything. Luckily rugby has largely escaped such as issue and long may it do so.... as so avoid the **** that goes on in football.

MyKeyG

But how does affinity develop? Unless you pick a team out of a hat then how do you decide? I'd rather follow a team because of geography than because they're the most popular or successful at the time. Even if it is geographical allegiance that just adds to rivalry which once civil is an intricate part of sport.

irishbucsfan

If you're living in Belfast it's pretty hard to support Munster, bit of a distance to travel!

Grimebox

I was born and live in Ireland my whole life, yet I support the french rugby team. See how little sense that makes? I've always thought that your local club should be your default team to support. I find it bizarre hearing a Liverpool fan referring to the team as "we". So I pretty much completely disagree with everything you have said. Ultimately people can support whoever they want and I don't really care.

You still managed to insult Munster, Ulster and Leinster fans so I see this thread taking off

overshoot

i would basically put it down to enjoying a live game really, its easy to attend your local club (admitadly the provences can leave a long distances) you get used to attending x and cheering for their scores and eventually your involved with one team. same goes for soccer (bar the premier league facination, i did it as a child and i grew out of it is all i can say, give me the atmosphere admitadly of a lower quality live match than watching one on the tv anyday) and gaa where many will have played for the club at underage level/know players on the team/ team players then play county... *also excluding the day out to croker fans.

on the soccer point il point to someones bring a 5yr old to a match thread where the leinster clermont game got a overwhelming majority over ireland on people pointing to a much greater match day experience (not trying to start one of those threads from the soccer forum) sum of its parts really

i find rugby probably generates the biggest non geographical support base of the 3 codes listed although again i would probably put it down to as i said the geographical size and leading to people who wouldnt be attending matches and then basing their initial support from broadcast games/media influences (a la premier league, nod to other issues; as in rugby clubs not as common around the country for the gaa described effect. a reducing issue) thats as much analyising as i could be bothered with for now

well il just add, geographical just makes things easy, playing football back at home as a kid and we picked teams based on the side of a stream you were on, worked out quite evenly and the banter was just fun

Fireball07

As MyKeyG says, it's really down to the affinity formed between you and the team. Basically, an emotional attachment is formed between you and the team, and once that happens, you can't just end it.

And if you live in Munster, obviously there is a much greater chance of a bond forming between you and Munster, than between you and another province. Obviously, if you didn't go to matches when you were younger and watched more Ulster/Leinster/Connacht games, then perhaps that attachment would be formed with somewhere else. It's just something that happens, you can't really help it tbh.


Same as supporting your county in GAA, your country in any sport... it's just more likely to happen if you live in the area. (The main exceptions are people who have parents from other areas, and are basically indoctrinated as children )

Baker87

This thread is kind of baffling

Podge_irl

The phenomenon of the Lunster has diminished in recent years. That has very little to do with any off field changes in the respective teams and everything to do with on field results. I'm convinced that 95% of Lunsters did so not because of feeling rejected by a Leinster snobbery (as someone from a working class northside background I find that absurd) but because Munster were winning and Leinster weren't. They could explain it away with the whatever flimsy pretence they wanted but I'll never believe that wasn't the reason.

You are right that unlike Ireland, Leinster etc are not a representative team. However 75% of the Leinster squad is from Leinster, the entire academy is from Leinster, 99% of the support is from Leinster. I do not remotely understand people who don't 'relate' to the team and choose to support someone else instead.

Leinster are my team. They represent me. I don't understand someone who would reject that.

Baker87

Podge_irl wrote: »

The phenomenon of the Lunster has diminished in recent years. That has very little to do with any off field changes in the respective teams and everything to do with on field results. I'm convinced that 95% of Lunsters did so not because of feeling rejected by a Leinster snobbery (as someone from a working class northside background I find that absurd) but because Munster were winning and Leinster weren't. They could explain it away with the whatever flimsy pretence they wanted but I'll never believe that wasn't the reason.

You are right that unlike Ireland, Leinster etc are not a representative team. However 75% of the Leinster squad is from Leinster, the entire academy is from Leinster, 99% of the support is from Leinster. I do not remotely understand people who don't 'relate' to the team and choose to support someone else instead.

Leinster are my team. They represent me. I don't understand someone who would reject that.

What about the idea that mainstream "rivalry" in Irish rugby is only about 15 years old?

How about the some people support the Irish team first and foremost, and because of that want to see players who play for Ireland having success at club level, whichever that club may be?

Podge_irl

Baker87 wrote: »

What about the idea that mainstream "rivalry" in Irish rugby is only about 15 years old?

How about the some people support the Irish team first and foremost, and because of that want to see players who play for Ireland having success at club level, whichever that club may be?

I support the Irish team first and foremost.

I think ultimately the developing provincial rivalry has had ups and downs, but I think the massive increase in support for the provincial teams and the entrance of rugby fully into the Irish sporting Zeitgeist has been hugely important.

I want all of the Irish provinces to be successful - but I want Leinster to be the most successful. Whatever about trivialities off the field, I think the Leinster-Munster rivalry has spurned both teams on to better things. Ulster have lagged in the pro era, but are coming on strong now and that can only be a good thing.

No one will convince me that Leinster playing in front of 15,000 people a week is better than them playing in front of a few hundred in Donnybrook - regardless of the impact in terms of unpleasantness between the provincial fans.

Baker87

Podge_irl wrote: »

I support the Irish team first and foremost.

I think ultimately the developing provincial rivalry has had ups and downs, but I think the massive increase in support for the provincial teams and the entrance of rugby fully into the Irish sporting Zeitgeist has been hugely important.

I want all of the Irish provinces to be successful - but I want Leinster to be the most successful. Whatever about trivialities off the field, I think the Leinster-Munster rivalry has spurned both teams on to better things. Ulster have lagged in the pro era, but are coming on strong now and that can only be a good thing.

No one will convince me that Leinster playing in front of 15,000 people a week is better than them playing in front of a few hundred in Donnybrook - regardless of the impact in terms of unpleasantness between the provincial fans.

I agree with pretty much all of that.

What i'm saying is that I can understand people who support Leinster and Munster equally, rather than somebody who supports one and actively wants the other team to do poorly.

Podge_irl

Baker87 wrote: »

I agree with pretty much all of that.

What i'm saying is that I can understand people who support Leinster and Munster equally, rather than somebody who supports one and actively wants the other team to do poorly.

I can understand that too. I think they are becoming a minority though - and I don't necessarily think that is a bad thing. I regret the increasing polarisation in Irish rugby (and I think Ulster entering as a genuine third province is important in negating that - one can only hope Connacht eventually get there too), but ultimately the increase in support for Leinster and Munster is going to go hand in hand with an increased rivalry between the two. I'm very happy to see Munster do well, but if I'm perfectly honest I'm less happy then I was 10 years ago. 10 years ago I was happy to see any Irish team do well against other countries, but I think we have graduated beyond that, which is part of all the Irish teams doing better.

There is a fine line between a healthy rivalry and a burgeoning bitterness and I hope we'll end up on the right side of it.

To return to the point of the thread - I think the very benefit that rugby has in Ireland is that the professional rugby teams are mostly regional based. Manchester United fans are supporting a team of Italians, Germans, Czechs (this sentence potentially goes a long way to exposing my ignorance of soccer), while Leinster fans are supporting a team of 80% Leinster born players. If there is a single biggest reason why I'd like to restrict foreigners in the provincial teams its because I want to still have a real association with them. It may ultimately be silly, but I like knowing most of the team are from near me and that I see some of them in the local shop.

Fishooks12

This thread is rather LONG

corny

Amazing you know three very stereotypical provincial supporters OP!

There's nothing wrong with supporting your local team; works well for the GAA.

Chuck Stone

Ares wrote: »

I know of three people who don't support the province that they hail from, one is a Catholic from Derry who supports Connaught,

That's a bit dumb imo. I was born into Catholicism in Co. Derry and would have no problem supporting the Ulster rugby team - couldn't give a shit what 'side' the players a from.

I've lived in Cork most of my life so Munster would naturally be the team I like to see do well but I'm happy when any of the provinces do well.

My (Munster only) brothers slag me for getting excited about Leinster winning the Heineken Cup but I think they are the ones who are daft.

jm08

Podge_irl wrote: »

The phenomenon of the Lunster has diminished in recent years. That has very little to do with any off field changes in the respective teams and everything to do with on field results. I'm convinced that 95% of Lunsters did so not because of feeling rejected by a Leinster snobbery (as someone from a working class northside background I find that absurd) but because Munster were winning and Leinster weren't. They could explain it away with the whatever flimsy pretence they wanted but I'll never believe that wasn't the reason.

You are right that unlike Ireland, Leinster etc are not a representative team. However 75% of the Leinster squad is from Leinster, the entire academy is from Leinster, 99% of the support is from Leinster. I do not remotely understand people who don't 'relate' to the team and choose to support someone else instead.

Leinster are my team. They represent me. I don't understand someone who would reject that.

Your comments about the 'Lunsters' is wrong imo. Many Leinster born supporters who may have gotten into following Munster because of Munster's early success have not gone back to Leinster just because they are now successful.

People in general will stick with the team they grew up with - for example, Leeds have quite a few supporters in Ireland despite being pretty unsuccessful for a long time now.

I don't think these supporters felt rejected by the supposed Leinster snobbery, more than likely they just enjoy/identify with the more general type of support you would get at a Munster game (that could be a city v. country thing - i.e., a farmer from Laois might prefer the atmosphere in Thomond Park to the Aviva/RDS.

Foxtrol

jm08 wrote: »

Your comments about the 'Lunsters' is wrong imo. Many Leinster born supporters who may have gotten into following Munster because of Munster's early success have not gone back to Leinster just because they are now successful.

People in general will stick with the team they grew up with - for example, Leeds have quite a few supporters in Ireland despite being pretty unsuccessful for a long time now.

I don't think these supporters felt rejected by the supposed Leinster snobbery, more than likely they just enjoy/identify with the more general type of support you would get at a Munster game (that could be a city v. country thing - i.e., a farmer from Laois might prefer the atmosphere in Thomond Park to the Aviva/RDS.

What do you mean by general?

Foxtrol

Podge_irl wrote: »

The phenomenon of the Lunster has diminished in recent years. That has very little to do with any off field changes in the respective teams and everything to do with on field results. I'm convinced that 95% of Lunsters did so not because of feeling rejected by a Leinster snobbery (as someone from a working class northside background I find that absurd) but because Munster were winning and Leinster weren't. They could explain it away with the whatever flimsy pretence they wanted but I'll never believe that wasn't the reason.

You are right that unlike Ireland, Leinster etc are not a representative team. However 75% of the Leinster squad is from Leinster, the entire academy is from Leinster, 99% of the support is from Leinster. I do not remotely understand people who don't 'relate' to the team and choose to support someone else instead.

Leinster are my team. They represent me. I don't understand someone who would reject that.

I agree that it was mostly down to bandwagon support of the side on the top and the explanation of snobbery is just a pathetic excuse but also a useful tool to give a sly dig at the opposition at the same time.

The Lunster element if not diminished has definitely become a lot less vocal. Lunsters I know who would only have a bad thing to say when it came to Leinster when Munster were on top would now openly support them at all times except when playing Munster (some even when playing Munster). I suppose once a bandwagoner, always a bandwagoner.

jm08

Foxtrol wrote: »

What do you mean by general?

Mainly city people at Leinster (bearing in mind its in the middle of a large city), more of a mixture at Munster games (based in a small city/big town), so you will get a mixture of rural & city/small towns people.

Foxtrol

jm08 wrote: »

Mainly city people at Leinster (bearing in mind its in the middle of a large city), more of a mixture at Munster games (based in a small city/big town), so you will get a mixture of rural & city/small towns people.

That's the demographics of Leinster though (that's in no way me accepting that there isn't a large proportion of Leinster supporters from outside of Dublin city, me being an example).

Would you be as understanding of a Cork city person supporting Leinster using the excuse that the Leinster support more reflects Cork city people than Munster?

jm08

Foxtrol wrote: »

That's the demographics of Leinster though (that's in no way me accepting that there isn't a large proportion of Leinster supporters from outside of Dublin city, me being an example).

Would you be as understanding of a Cork city person supporting Leinster using the excuse that the Leinster support more reflects Cork city people than Munster?

Its their business really who they want to support - but its interesting to see how Munster Rugby keep the 2 bases going in Munster.

Foxtrol

jm08 wrote: »

Its their business really who they want to support - but its interesting to see how Munster Rugby keep the 2 bases going in Munster.

If a supporter switches loyalty due to a province changing training bases they weren't really a supporter to begin with.

jm08

Foxtrol wrote: »

If a supporter switches loyalty due to a province changing training bases they weren't really a supporter to begin with.

I doubt if Munster would lose the existing support - just if there were no games/presence in Cork the next generation will gravitate towards gaa/soccer.

I'm sure its working out well for Leinster Rugby marketing wise to have their base in the UCD campus.

Foxtrol

jm08 wrote: »

I doubt if Munster would lose the existing support - just if there were no games/presence in Cork the next generation will gravitate towards gaa/soccer.

I'm sure its working out well for Leinster Rugby marketing wise to have their base in the UCD campus.

I'd say it generates very little marketing benefit, just like having split bases gives Munster very little marketing benefit. Blazers and diehards are the only ones who give any care to where players train day in day out (apart from open days which are spread around the province anyway). I agree dropping games from Cork would have a negative effect but I cant see anyone who has little to no interest (those who you want to target) caring about the location of the training base of the side.

awec

The origins of the Irish provincial teams tend to be why people support their own province. There is absolutely no ambiguity whatsoever as to which province you are from, and the teams are seen to be representative teams of that province (even though the players don't have to be from the province).

I've only started following rugby at this level for the past few years, the majority of which I've lived in Leinster. Still couldn't see myself as a Leinster fan as I was born and bred in Ulster and it would just feel wrong. I would find the team hard to identify with.

I think comparisons with club football are a bit skewed too.

jm08

Foxtrol wrote: »

I'd say it generates very little marketing benefit, just like having split bases gives Munster very little marketing benefit. Blazers and diehards are the only ones who give any care to where players train day in day out (apart from open days which are spread around the province anyway). I agree dropping games from Cork would have a negative effect but I cant see anyone who has little to no interest (those who you want to target) caring about the location of the training base of the side.

Of course its of marketing benefit. A big building with large Leinster signs in a campus of about 15-16K students (18-22 year olds) from all over the country.

Star players like BOD & Kearney walking around (people pay them appearance money).

Similar situation in CIT in Cork.

Baker87

Foxtrol wrote: »

I agree that it was mostly down to bandwagon support of the side on the top and the explanation of snobbery is just a pathetic excuse but also a useful tool to give a sly dig at the opposition at the same time.

The Lunster element if not diminished has definitely become a lot less vocal. Lunsters I know who would only have a bad thing to say when it came to Leinster when Munster were on top would now openly support them at all times except when playing Munster (some even when playing Munster). I suppose once a bandwagoner, always a bandwagoner.

Is this not a bit ironic seeing as when you are at a Leinster match the majority of people sitting around you could be considered "bandwagoners"?

Would a "Lunster" who supported both teams in the 90's be less or more of a bandwagoner who only started supporting Leinster/Munster in the last 10 years when rugby took off here?

Grimebox

What is a Lunster?

JustinDee

Foxtrol wrote: »

I suppose once a bandwagoner, always a bandwagoner.

Every sport going is vying for the attention of new interest and no-one is more deserving of being deemed a fan than anyone else who attends or follows.
The term "bandwagon" gets chucked around as if it is a bad thing. It most certainly isn't. We want "bandwagons". "Bandwagons" signify new waves of supporters, players, referees, ticket holders, club members, subscribers etc etc. Thats why success is so important.

totallegend

Grimebox wrote: »

What is a Lunster?

A person from Leinster who supports Munster; population peaked in May 2006 and have been in steady decline since.

Think Reggie Corrigan claims credit for coining the term.

molloyjh

People tend to support their local team because their local team is flying the banner for them. There's a sense of connection there that I (a Dub) wouldn't really have with the other provinces. Of course that's a generalisation and there will always be exceptions. I've no real issues with it one way or another. I'll slag off someone who doesn't support "their own" but it will always be in good humour. After the Cardiff game in the RDS a few weeks back I met an Cardiff bloke who was there with his wife. She is from Dublin, and has always lived in Dublin, but supports the Ospreys. And not for the reasons you might think. I gave her some stick over it, we laughed and that was that.

As for the religious thing, I think your mate is the one with the issue there. The mother-in-laws partner played rugby for Greystones 30+ years ago and according to him even during the Troubles there was never even the slightest hint of sectarianism or anything like that in the game. They played their games, had their sessions and ignored all the bs.

EDIT: I'm meeting more and more Meinsters these days btw....

molloyjh

totallegend wrote: »

A person from Leinster who supports Munster; population peaked in May 2006 and have been in steady decline since.

Think Reggie Corrigan claims credit for coining the term.

I'll never forget meeting him outside Croke Park in 2009. He had a wicked grin on his face: "That'll show those f-ing Lunsters!". :pac:

Foxtrol

Baker87 wrote: »

Is this not a bit ironic seeing as when you are at a Leinster match the majority of people sitting around you could be considered "bandwagoners"?

No I dont find it ironic and if you do I think you may need to refresh your understanding of irony.

EDIT: I dont know where you are getting your opinion that the majority of Leinster fans are former Lunsters anyway

Would a "Lunster" who supported both teams in the 90's be less or more of a bandwagoner who only started supporting Leinster/Munster in the last 10 years when rugby took off here?

No I wouldnt, where have I mentioned someone picking a province to support a bandwagoner?

Foxtrol

JustinDee wrote: »

Every sport going is vying for the attention of new interest and no-one is more deserving of being deemed a fan than anyone else who attends or follows.
The term "bandwagon" gets chucked around as if it is a bad thing. It most certainly isn't. We want "bandwagons". "Bandwagons" signify new waves of supporters, players, referees, ticket holders, club members, subscribers etc etc. Thats why success is so important.

Where have I mentioned new interest in the sport? My post clearly gave the example of a Lunster who has suddenly gotten over the "snobbery of Leinster" now that Leinster are the team winning trophies. You might want the term bandwagoners to have a positive connotation which is fine but the description of this type of fan only deserves to be negative.

Cienciano

Ares wrote: »

I know of three people who don't support the province that they hail from, one is a Catholic from Derry who supports Connaught, another is a Munsterman who prefers the style of play of Leinster and he doesn't like the country bandwagon support that Munster attracted since the year 2000 while the final man has an issue with the upper class snobbery of Leinster rugby and idetifies more with the gritty underside of Limerick city and rugby in general.

They're 3 crap reasons. Chuck Stone explained one.
Imagine supporting a team based on it's style of play? That changes depending on the coach!
And snobbery of leinster rugby? Is this another person that thinks leinster is entirely in a small part of Dublin 4 and all it's fans are Ross O'Carroll Kelly clones? Seems like a gobshíte with an inferiority complex!

jm08

molloyjh wrote: »

As for the religious thing, I think your mate is the one with the issue there. The mother-in-laws partner played rugby for Greystones 30+ years ago and according to him even during the Troubles there was never even the slightest hint of sectarianism or anything like that in the game. They played their games, had their sessions and ignored all the bs.

Its not a religious thing in NI - its a tribal thing in that nationalist (generally catholics) support GAA and Unionists (generally protestant) support rugby and neither the twain met in the past within NI.

Soccer was always played by both tribes and thats when there was trouble. Bear in mind that Derry City play in the League of Ireland.

Protestants & catholics played rugby in ROI, so sectarianism wasn't going to be an issue there.

jm08

molloyjh wrote: »

I'll never forget meeting him outside Croke Park in 2009. He had a wicked grin on his face: "That'll show those f-ing Lunsters!". :pac:

Crickey, you'd think he'd have more sense.

jm08

Foxtrol wrote: »

Where have I mentioned new interest in the sport? My post clearly gave the example of a Lunster who has suddenly gotten over the "snobbery of Leinster" now that Leinster are the team winning trophies. You might want the term bandwagoners to have a positive connotation which is fine but the description of this type of fan only deserves to be negative.

In fairness to Leinster, they have worked hard at changing their image. I mean a stand at the All Ireland Ploughing Championship!:D

Foxtrol

jm08 wrote: »

Crickey, you'd think he'd have more sense.

I'd let him away with it. During his career he had to take a fair amount of stick ("ladies" etc) from Lunsters.

Foxtrol

jm08 wrote: »

In fairness to Leinster, they have worked hard at changing their image. I mean a stand at the All Ireland Ploughing Championship!:D

When did Leinster ever change their image? They may have broadened the market they target with their advertising but that is not the same as changing their image.

jm08

Foxtrol wrote: »

When did Leinster ever change their image? They may have broadened the market they target with their advertising but that is not the same as changing their image.

Leinster didn't try to change their image of being fancy dan backs outfit? I suppose that's why they sent down Sean O'Brien to man the stand rather than one of the backs who has highlights in his hair!

damianmcr

Catholic from Co. Derry and I support Ulster.

CatFromHue

Foxtrol wrote: »

When did Leinster ever change their image? They may have broadened the market they target with their advertising but that is not the same as changing their image.

Prob not related to this thread but Leinster have nearly gotten rid of the yellow that used to be in their jerseys/flags.

The jersey worn by Miller below is still one of my favourite jerseys.

jm08

Foxtrol wrote: »

I'd let him away with it. During his career he had to take a fair amount of stick ("ladies" etc) from Lunsters.

It was entirely his own fault. Nicknames are generally fitting.

CatFromHue

jm08 wrote: »

Leinster didn't try to change their image of being fancy dan backs outfit? I suppose that's why they sent down Sean O'Brien to man the stand rather than one of the backs who has highlights in his hair!

It makes more sense to have someone with a farming background at a ploughing event than someone who doesn't.

JustinDee

Foxtrol wrote: »

Where have I mentioned new interest in the sport? My post clearly gave the example of a Lunster who has suddenly gotten over the "snobbery of Leinster" now that Leinster are the team winning trophies. You might want the term bandwagoners to have a positive connotation which is fine but the description of this type of fan only deserves to be negative.

It isn't like somebody flipping from one province to another involves a life or death situation. They might have a perfectly valid reason to do so. Players can switch provinces. Are they the Judas for doing so?
Nothing negative to be found in the so-called "bandwagon" at all, and again I'll say it, no single fan betters any other through the gates or on the street.

jm08

CatFromHue wrote: »

It makes more sense to have someone with a farming background at a ploughing event than someone who doesn't.

Why? He is selling Leinster rugby to the attendees, not buying farm machinery for Leinster!

Baker87

Foxtrol wrote: »

No I dont find it ironic and if you do I think you may need to refresh your understanding of irony.

EDIT: I dont know where you are getting your opinion that the majority of Leinster fans are former Lunsters anyway



No I wouldnt, where have I mentioned someone picking a province to support a bandwagoner?

I think you misunderstood my point, I'm not suggesting that the majority of Leinster supporters are former Lunsters..

I'm suggesting that there is some irony in criticising Lunsters for bandwagoning behind Munster, when a good chunk of Leinsters current support could be described as bandwagoners themselves.

Foxtrol

jm08 wrote: »

Leinster didn't try to change their image of being fancy dan backs outfit? I suppose that's why they sent down Sean O'Brien to man the stand rather than one of the backs who has highlights in his hair!

"Celebrating over a century of running rugby" - The tagline for the Leinster DVD released last Friday.

Broadening the focus of your marketing is not a change in image and neither is using a squad member for an appearance with relevant interests to the event (horses for courses).

Foxtrol

jm08 wrote: »

It was entirely his own fault. Nicknames are generally fitting.

Crickey, you'd think they'd have more sense. :rolleyes: