Another attempting to weasel out of not having tax thread

TeChNiQuEz

Ok i was stoped yeaterday by the guards, i had insurance and NCT but no tax as i had the car only 6 days and have not received the logbook yet, he ceased the car as he said he wanted to have it sent to be tested for road worthyness even tho it HAS an NCT till next year, i told him he couldn't do that as i had insurance and NCT and he told me he could under section 41 and section 49 of the road traffic act which can be found here

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1961/en/act/pub/0024/sec0049.html
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1961/en/act/pub/0024/sec0041.html


So i need some advice here please as the car is now been sent for a test which it dosen't need then ill have to pay to get it out of impound

Kenny Logins

Hmmm, something not right here..

awec

This post has been deleted.

navara man

did you the car look unroadworthy. do you think it will pass the test

TeChNiQuEz

NCT was on the window insurance disc wasn't as i had to send back the old 1 to get a new 1 for the new car, but i told him it did and i could produce it but he wouldn't listen and yes my car looked perfectly road worthy, brand new tires etc and yes my car would pass the test no problem, not even a fog light is gone

keithclancy

TeChNiQuEz wrote: »

NCT was on the window insurance disc wasn't as i had to send back the old 1 to get a new 1 for the new car, but i told him it did and i could produce it but he wouldn't listen and yes my car looked perfectly road worthy, brand new tires etc and yes my car would pass the test no problem, not even a fog light is gone

Bad luck unfortunately, according to the law it shouldn't be on the road unless it has valid motor tax.

Stheno

TeChNiQuEz wrote: »

NCT was on the window insurance disc wasn't as i had to send back the old 1 to get a new 1 for the new car, but i told him it did and i could produce it but he wouldn't listen and yes my car looked perfectly road worthy, brand new tires etc and yes my car would pass the test no problem, not even a fog light is gone

No insurance displayed and no tax, is probably why they seized it.

Mikros

To the OP - the guard can seize the car for no tax under section 41 of the Road Traffic Act.

He can also have it inspected by a qualified Garda inspector for any dangerous defects regardless if it has a valid NCT or not. It is not an NCT test nor will you be charged. However if the vehicle has any dangerous defects that are discovered (e.g. faulty brakes etc.) you could be charged with driving a dangerously defective vehicle. That legislation has existed for years before the NCT test so it is nothing new.

Our man in Havana

There is an awful amount of no tax threads lately. No sympathy for any of them.

CiniO

Stheno wrote: »

No insurance displayed and no tax, is probably why they seized it.

No need to display insurance disc for first 10 days from arranging the policy.
However surely car could have been seized for no tax if it was over 2 months out.

Our man in Havana

Indeed, but the "I just bought it" defence as frequently trotted out does not cut much ice.

doopa

I've never had to post an old insurance disk to get a new one. What was the reason for that?

Kenny Logins

doopa wrote: »

I've never had to post an old insurance disk to get a new one. What was the reason for that?

My insurers wouldn't issue a new cert until the old (no longer valid) one was returned.

Our man in Havana

They will issue a new disc and cert but insist on the old ones being returned.

ljpg

Our man in Havana wrote: »

There is an awful amount of no tax threads lately. No sympathy for any of them.

up until recently i always held the same stance as you on this subject but these are different times we live in now,if you were down to your last few bob and you had to either A:tax the car or B:put food on the table,heat the house etc,which would you choose?

awec

This post has been deleted.

Our man in Havana

awec wrote: »

What's the reasoning for wanting the old disc back?

Because if someone kept using the car with the old disk, that insurance company would be on the hook for any possible accidents.

Kenny Logins

awec wrote: »

What's the reasoning for wanting the old disc back?

They ask for it back because it's no longer valid, despite appearing to be.

Kenny Logins

Our man in Havana wrote: »

They will issue a new disc and cert but insist on the old ones being returned.

Depends on the insurer I suppose..


Anyway.. OP isn't giving us the full story here - No tax, no insurance, 'just bought it'... Yeah?

Browney7

Did you buy it from a dealer or private. Would you have had a receipt to show him? Seems harsh that they would take it if it was clear you just bought it

Eireann81

TeChNiQuEz wrote: »

NCT was on the window insurance disc wasn't as i had to send back the old 1 to get a new 1 for the new car, but i told him it did and i could produce it but he wouldn't listen and yes my car looked perfectly road worthy, brand new tires etc and yes my car would pass the test no problem, not even a fog light is gone

Is the car modified from standard in any way? Is it an old car?

650Ginge

Our man in Havana wrote: »

There is an awful amount of no tax threads lately. No sympathy for any of them.

They should spend 10k and get an '08 with cheap tax. :-)

Guy:Incognito

ljpg wrote: »

up until recently i always held the same stance as you on this subject but these are different times we live in now,if you were down to your last few bob and you had to either A:tax the car or B:put food on the table,heat the house etc,which would you choose?

C: Don't drive the car?

OldmanMondeo

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

C: Don't drive the car?

Owner lives miles from work, needs car to get their due to no public transport. Give up job, lose car, can't get another job, becomes drain on state. Pays Tax when he/she can get the money together for it.

OP, sounds like there is something else to it. There wasn't any "Boy Racer joyriding" carrying on first? What type of car is it, ie is it a stereo typical boy-racer car that the Gardai love to pull?

hurleronditch

So does this mean that anyone buying a second hand car is technically illegal until the dealer sends the change of ownership forms off and they can process their tax?

Im buying a second hand car from a well known main dealer on monday, does this mean a) i must wait for the forms to be processed before i can drive it? b) does it mean i must go straight to the tax office to tax it after i collect it monday morning? or c) does it mean that i should get a week or two of leeway for the dealer to process the paperwork where i wont be in fear of having the car impounded?

I had always assumed that c was the case, but unless there is something else at play here (Im buying a 2010 sensible saloon car that should attract zero garda attention), i now feel that ill have to head straight to the tax office and just pay it manually for fear of losing my new motor!!

Kenny Logins

hurleronditch wrote: »

So does this mean that anyone buying a second hand car is technically illegal until the dealer sends the change of ownership forms off and they can process their tax?

Im buying a second hand car from a well known main dealer on monday, does this mean a) i must wait for the forms to be processed before i can drive it? b) does it mean i must go straight to the tax office to tax it after i collect it monday morning? or c) does it mean that i should get a week or two of leeway for the dealer to process the paperwork where i wont be in fear of having the car impounded?

I had always assumed that c was the case, but unless there is something else at play here (Im buying a 2010 sensible saloon car that should attract zero garda attention), i now feel that ill have to head straight to the tax office and just pay it manually for fear of losing my new motor!!

I suspect there is something else at play here. I've never had a problem driving a car while waiting for paperwork, even on imports.

djimi

The OP has stated that they only had the car 6 days at the time. They are only liable for tax up to the start of this month, which means that their tax was only out of date less than 2 weeks at the time. However long the car was out of tax before the OP bought it is completely irrelevant. Seeing as how the OP has not yet recieved the log book for the car Im not really sure what more they could do.

To me it sounds like the Garda in question was being an arse tbh. If the OP can show that they have just bought the car then the Garda way overreacted.

Kenny Logins

Yeah, but you could (in theory) drive about with no tax and when you get stopped say 'Just bought it'.

djimi

Kenny Logins wrote: »

Yeah, but you could (in theory) drive about with no tax and when you get stopped say 'Just bought it'.

One would assume that if you have just bought a car and have no discs on display you would not be daft enough not to carry with you some kind of proof that you have just bought the car...

MugMugs

djimi wrote: »

The OP has stated that they only had the car 6 days at the time. They are only liable for tax up to the start of this month, which means that their tax was only out of date less than 2 weeks at the time. However long the car was out of tax before the OP bought it is completely irrelevant. Seeing as how the OP has not yet recieved the log book for the car Im not really sure what more they could do.

To me it sounds like the Garda in question was being an arse tbh. If the OP can show that they have just bought the car then the Garda way overreacted.

Therein lies the Gardas dillema. How could the OP prove to the Garda on the side of the road that he had just recently acquired the vehicle? Did he make an attempt and if not, what is stopping everybody from using this excuse on the spot when stopped?

As unfair as it is, I don't see what other option the Gardai were left with.

OP May i ask when the vehicles tax had expired?

djimi

I kept the receipt I got for my car on my until I had all the discs in order. It's not exactly legally binding or anything but it at least is something to back up your story. If the OP didn't have something like this with them then so be it, but I just kind of assumed that no one would try and use the "I've just bought the car" line without having something on them to back it up.

mathepac

Our man in Havana wrote: »

Because if someone kept using the car with the old disk, that insurance company would be on the hook for any possible accidents.

Nope. If you can't return the disc the insurance company ask for a signed document saying it's lost or destroyed.

If they want the disc & cert back because they the premium isn't paid up in full they write saying you have seven days to rectify the situation. It is remains unpaid they issue a letter cancelling the insurance.

In any case they won't pay out solely on the basis of having a disc displayed.

MugMugs

mathepac wrote: »

Nope. If you can't return the disc the insurance company ask for a signed document saying it's lost or destroyed.

If they want the disc & cert back because they the premium isn't paid up in full they write saying you have seven days to rectify the situation. It is remains unpaid they issue a letter cancelling the insurance.

In any case they won't pay out solely on the basis of having a disc displayed.

They won't want to however are you fully sure that in certain circumstances that they won't be obliged too?

ljpg

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

C: Don't drive the car?

predictable city dweller response,if you cant afford to tax your car what do ya do?? hop on the nearest bus,train,luas and ample taxi service and away ya go,you have a choice,if you live in the arse end of nowhere like me you dont have that choice,as i already said,these are different times,people dont have the money anymore,the kids still need to be brought to school,the shopping still needs to be done.

stoneill

What has section 41 and 49 got to do with motor tax?
Those sections are about being on the gargle while driving and not signing the big book.

Our man in Havana

Section 41 RTA 1994 allows seizure for no tax.

Section 20 RTA 1961 allows for seizure for a technical examination.

Guy:Incognito

ljpg wrote: »

predictable city dweller response,if you cant afford to tax your car what do ya do?? hop on the nearest bus,train,luas and ample taxi service and away ya go,you have a choice,if you live in the arse end of nowhere like me you dont have that choice,as i already said,these are different times,people dont have the money anymore,the kids still need to be brought to school,the shopping still needs to be done.

So if I move down the country can I drive with no tax cos its dear and I've other things to pay for? Cool. I'll start looking at V6's now.

MugMugs

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

So if I move down the country can I drive with no tax cos its dear and I've other things to pay for? Cool. I'll start looking at V6's now.

It's not unknown

ProudDUB

OldmanMondeo wrote: »

Owner lives miles from work, needs car to get their due to no public transport. Give up job, lose car, can't get another job, becomes drain on state. Pays Tax when he/she can get the money together for it.

E. Plan out car purchase and transportation plans ahead of time. It is not like catching cold. It is something you know ahead of of time that you are going to be doing. Plan and coordinate with friends, family, neighbours ways to get to and from work, the shops, school runs etc etc until the new car can be driven legally on the roads. You managed it somehow before you bought the new car. What difference will a few more days make? Guards do then not have to waste their time dealing with you and your car and its lack of tax, can use their time more productively dealing with more serious matters.

OldmanMondeo

ProudDUB wrote: »

E. Plan out car purchase and transportation plans ahead of time. It is not like catching cold. It is something you know ahead of of time that you are going to be doing. Plan and coordinate with friends, family, neighbours ways to get to and from work, the shops, school runs etc etc until the new car can be driven legally on the roads. You managed it somehow before you bought the new car. What difference will a few more days make? Guards do then not have to waste their time dealing with you and your car and its lack of tax, can use their time more productively dealing with more serious matters.

And hope the arse doesn't fall out of the country, diesel doesn't increase 100% in a very short amount of time. Who said anything about a new car? You could have any car paid for but still struggle with taxing it.
In the real world, feeding a family comes before putting tax on a car, many people are forced into this situation through job lay offs, increases in the cost of living, salary reductions etc. I will admit I will be struggling to pay 3 months tax on my car at the end of this month, I will probably hold off and pay it at the end of December. It is a sign of the times, many people who could afford the car they purchased a few years ago have different circumstances now and are struggling. I hope you are never in this situation.

ps my car is taxed, insured and NCT'd.

dahamsta

Holier than thou brigade in effect again I see. Ten gets you twenty every one of them has driven their car without tax at some point.

I've driven nearly every car I've owned without tax or a disc for a short period of time, while waiting for the cert or the disc in the post. I've been stopped several times and the Guards have never blinked an eye upon presentation of some sort of proof of purchase, no matter how flimsy. Most recently I was stopped in the wife's car having been ANPR'd for no tax -- the change of ownership hadn't even registered on their system, and he waved me on.

Most Guards are reasonable people that realise and accept that people have lives to live and jobs to get to. Unlike the high horsers above that dot their i's and cross their t's and don't have lives worth living. 1.4 Skoda drivers all I'll wager.

MugMugs

dahamsta wrote: »

I've driven nearly every car I've owned without tax or a disc for a short period of time, while waiting for the cert or the disc in the post.

You rebel! How did it feel? Was there a buzz to it?

RustyNut

Wat the fcuk do you want pig face ?



What do ya mean your seizing me car?

Higgsie

Over the years I've been stopped twice having just bought a car with no tax. Both times I had the receipt with me. No issue either time, got a “Nice car” each time (both Alfas, what can I say) and a “So much for the recession”

ljpg

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

So if I move down the country can I drive with no tax cos its dear and I've other things to pay for? Cool. I'll start looking at V6's now.

have you confused me with somebody else because i never said anything of the sort,you,ve taken my previous post so completely out of context it bears no relevance to the subject at hand.

dahamsta

The fact that the most imaginative they could get in that circumstance is a V6 speaks volumes....

Guy:Incognito

dahamsta wrote: »

Holier than thou brigade in effect again I see. Ten gets you twenty every one of them has driven their car without tax at some point..

Much like speeding, if I'm caught, I wouldnt be pissing and moaning that it was someone elses fault or trying to make excuses.

Chris_Heilong

the fact is, without tax you are not even supposed to test drive a otential purchase, legally speaking the only way you could buy a 2nd hand car without tax would be to pay someone to tow it to you garden.

Now I know of nobody that would follow this as its just stupid but it is a risk many of us happily take when buying a new car and driving it home without tax.

Our man in Havana

You takes the risk, you pays the price. Don't moan when caught.

tin79

Higgsie wrote: »

Over the years I've been stopped twice having just bought a car with no tax. Both times I had the receipt with me. No issue either time, got a “Nice car” each time (both Alfas, what can I say) and a “So much for the recession”

Similar with me (well my wife last week) car newly bought, no tax since aug, receipt from dealer in the glove box and no problem.

Didnt get a compliment on the car though

On a side note new log book lost in the post from shannon for the 3rd time out of 5 cars we have ever had :mad: and the second time in a row.

Casati

tin79 wrote: »

Similar with me (well my wife last week) car newly bought, no tax since aug, receipt from dealer in the glove box and no problem.

Didnt get a compliment on the car though

On a side note new log book lost in the post from shannon for the 3rd time out of 5 cars we have ever had :mad: and the second time in a row.

Agreed- common sense prevails, nobody is going to expect you to have to trailer a car from the garage just because the tax is out, except of course the high horse brigade posting earlier.

I think the OP was v unlucky or maybe there was more to the story. Eitherway, if they can prove recent change of ownership, and the car is roadworthy, then they should be ok