Roundabout question

Doom

In the photo attached, which lane No.1 or No.2 (Duel carriageway) should you be in to travel on to a single No.3? thanks

djimi

2

Voodoomelon

If that's dual carriageway way entering the round about at 1 & 2, and dual carriageway leaving at 3, you can be in either lane in 1 or 2, leaving in the respective lane at exit 3.

Unless road markings dictate otherwise.

hi5

Lane 1 for me, because the exit is after 12 o' clock.
Huge thread on this somewhere.

daaaycent boy

2

Nissan doctor

It happens to be past the 12 o'clock mark on this roundabout but its otherwise a very basic roundabout with the road you enter on and 3 exits. So for exit 1 and 2 its lane 2(as you marked) and for exit 3 and 4 its lane 1.

The rough 12 o'clock rule only comes into play on roundabouts with either no 'straight ahead' exit or ones that have more then 4 roads leading off them IMO.

Higgsie

Well assuming that you are in fact going stright ahead then going by this it's 2. Would have thought 1 myself.

nacimroc

Whats with this 12 O Clock thing people are on about? If there are 2 incoming lanes and 10 exits all before 12 O Clock, people here use the one lane for them all?

Damien360

lane 2 is for first turn off and straight on. lane 1 is for all the way round to 3 o'clock exit. Local knowledge/custom/stupidity usually dictates many roundabouts unfortunately.

allinthehead

http://www.drivingschoolireland.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=243

flazio

To be honest I think the entrance to 3 looks like it could take two cars at the same time but if it so happened that two cars both took the roundabout from 1 and 2 together and exited for 3 together, I'd expect the car that took 1 (or indeed came from the left hand side road) to yield to the car that took 2, at the exit.
On a related subject take a look at this junction here. Imagine I'm coming off the motorway from the south and heading towards Ballinasloe which is the road veering east, as you can see there are two lanes on the RAB, the markings, which aren't very clear, are just yield triangles. I reckon I should take the right hand lane, otherwise the only reason it's there is for traffic which is turning back on itself which is next to none. But others around me are adamant that I have to stay in the left lane and work my way around the outside as it's only the second exit.

Kenny Logins

I've always followed the 12 O'Clock rule... RSA agrees with me -



http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Road%20Safety/Leaflets/Leaf_booklets/Roundabouts_DL_2012_v3.pdf

allinthehead

flazio wrote: »

To be honest I think the entrance to 3 looks like it could take two cars at the same time but if it so happened that two cars both took the roundabout from 1 and 2 together and exited for 3 together, I'd expect the car that took 1 (or indeed came from the left hand side road) to yield to the car that took 2, at the exit.
On a related subject take a look at this junction here. Imagine I'm coming off the motorway from the south and heading towards Ballinasloe which is the road veering east, as you can see there are two lanes on the RAB, the markings, which aren't very clear, are just yield triangles. I reckon I should take the right hand lane, otherwise the only reason it's there is for traffic which is turning back on itself which is next to none. But others around me are adamant that I have to stay in the left lane and work my way around the outside as it's only the second exit.

Agreed right hand lane otherwise no point in having two lanes

GoodisonPark

Lane 2
First & second exits - left lane
Third & subsequent exits - right lane

Chris_Heilong

GoodisonPark wrote: »

Lane 2
First & second exits - left lane
Third & subsequent exits - right lane

correct answer. We discussed this in detail on boards not to long ago, do a search.

daenerysstormborn3

Lane 1.

There is a roundabout near my house and I complained to the council numerous times about the inability of drivers to use the roundabout correctly, it is pretty much the same layout as the picture in the OP, and the council have since put in new road markings designating the inside lane for the (W) exit, which would be the lane 3 marked on the picture in the OP and the outside lane for the (E) exit, which would be the first exit on the picture in the OP.

Kenny Logins

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

correct answer. We discussed this in detail on boards not to long ago, do a search.

Convince me.

Chris_Heilong

Sorry I meant lane 1 is correct, it is easy to make a mistake when you have to click on a new window. So here is the map for all to see.

nacimroc

flazio wrote: »

On a related subject take a look at this junction here. Imagine I'm coming off the motorway from the south and heading towards Ballinasloe which is the road veering east, as you can see there are two lanes on the RAB, the markings, which aren't very clear, are just yield triangles. I reckon I should take the right hand lane, otherwise the only reason it's there is for traffic which is turning back on itself which is next to none. But others around me are adamant that I have to stay in the left lane and work my way around the outside as it's only the second exit.

I was going to post that very roundabout as an example earlier. I partly blame the council and 2 simple arrows on the entry lanes would solve all the hassle. But you are right. 2 lanes in, 2 lanes out. I would love to know what people think the right lane is for if everyone uses the left as they do.

On the 12 O Clock thing, I cannot believe people teach it that way. Its completely wrong. Directions have nothing to do with what lane you should be in. Maybe this explains why nobody can use them properly.

goz83

As already mentioned by Nissan Doctor...lane 2.
12 O'Clock guide is really only for 5+ exits.

anniehoo

djimi wrote: »

2

Voodoomelon wrote: »

you can be in either lane in 1 or 2, l

hi5 wrote: »

Lane 1 for me

daaaycent boy wrote: »

2

OSI wrote: »

I would go with 1.

Higgsie wrote: »

Well assuming that you are in fact going stright ahead then going by this it's 2. Would have thought 1 myself.

GoodisonPark wrote: »

Lane 2

pixiebean22 wrote: »

Lane 1.

goz83 wrote: »

As already mentioned by Nissan Doctor...lane 2.

Well im glad we cleared that one up folks

somefeen

Personally I'd go for lane 2. Even though the exit is just after 12 O'Clock, it just makes sense.
Anyway if in doubt, right hand lane and go right the way around

newmug

You ALWAYS have to be in the left lane when exiting. Always. Otherwise, you'll be cutting across traffic coming from your left.

You could enter that roundabout in EITHER lane 1 or 2, so long as you merged into the left-most lane, after the last exit before the one you intend to take.

anniehoo

newmug wrote: »

You ALWAYS have to be in the left lane when exiting. Always..

Whaaat!??

Only if you're taking the first 2 exits. If you're taking the 3rd then you should be in the right lane.This thread is making my brain go funny.

somefeen

newmug wrote: »

You ALWAYS have to be in the left lane when exiting. Always. Otherwise, you'll be cutting across traffic coming from your left.

You could enter that roundabout in EITHER lane 1 or 2, so long as you merged into the left-most lane, after the last exit before the one you intend to take.

No because by time I get to the third exit any car to my left is either in the wrong lane or came onto the roundabout after me. Its my right of way.
(that said if there was a car there I'm not gonna be a **** about it)

Or am I misunderstanding

newmug

anniehoo wrote: »

Whaaat!??

Only if you're taking the first 2 exits. If you're taking the 3rd then you should be in the right lane.This thread is making my brain go funny.

Yes. Enter in whatever lane you like, and if you want to take the third exit, merge into the LEFT lane after the second. ALWAYS be in the left lane when exiting.

somefeen

newmug wrote: »

Yes. Enter in whatever lane you like, and if you want to take the third exit, merge into the LEFT lane after the second. ALWAYS be in the left lane when exiting.

Well you're gonna kind of have to be at some point to get off the roundabout.

cruizer101

Don't have to always be in left, what about dual carriageway roundabouts where is exit is two lanes.

djimi

This is one of those times that makes the 12oc rule thing look nonsense. In my mind the exit in question is the "staight" ahead exit (regardless if its not bullet straight ahead), and given the fact that it is the 2nd exit off the roundabout you stay in the left hand lane when entering the roundabout.

Kenny Logins

djimi wrote: »

This is one of those times that makes the 12oc rule thing look nonsense. In my mind the exit in question is the "staight" ahead exit (regardless if its not bullet straight ahead), and given the fact that it is the 2nd exit off the roundabout you stay in the left hand lane when entering the roundabout.

In your mind it may be, but it isn't. Hence the 12 O'Clock rule.

djimi

Kenny Logins wrote: »

In your mind it may be, but it isn't. Hence the 12 O'Clock rule.

Its a 4 exit roundabout. Okay the exits are at 9oc, 1oc, 3oc, 6oc, but I think its being extremely pedantic to say that the exit in question is not the "12oc" exit and should not be treated as such.

The older way of saying "1st and 2nd exits left lane, 3rd and subsequent right lane" was so much better way of describing it. Its the way that it should be; its the exit number that matters, not its relative position on the roundabout. The whole idea of using a clock to describe it is just pandering to those roadusers who cannot grasp a very simple concept...

Mycroft H

djimi wrote: »

The older way of saying "1st and 2nd exits left lane, 3rd and subsequent right lane" was so much better way of describing it. Its the way that it should be; its the exit number that matters, not its relative position on the roundabout. The whole idea of using a clock to describe it is just pandering to those roadusers who cannot grasp a very simple concept...

Agree with the above. The exits rule is still being thought to new drivers and it's still in the theory test book.

You can't go wrong with it

Kenny Logins

djimi wrote: »

Its a 4 exit roundabout. Okay the exits are at 9oc, 1oc, 3oc, 6oc, but I think its being extremely pedantic to say that the exit in question is not the "12oc" exit and should not be treated as such.

The older way of saying "1st and 2nd exits left lane, 3rd and subsequent right lane" was so much better way of describing it. Its the way that it should be; its the exit number that matters, not its relative position on the roundabout. The whole idea of using a clock to describe it is just pandering to those roadusers who cannot grasp a very simple concept...

Maybe you're right, I really don't know..

On this specific roundabout there appears to be only one lane on the exit marked '3', so I would use the right-hand lane entering the roundabout.

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=53.271962,+-8.91678&hl=en&ll=53.272383,-8.918324&spn=0.002653,0.005075&sll=53.271989,-7.999763&sspn=0.169793,0.324783&t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=53.272227,-8.918209&panoid=243UTIx4B3hv8L49wC2GDg&cbp=12,158.72,,0,1.52

TheChizler

The sign a couple of 100 metres back on the road illustrates the opposite exit as the "12 O'Clock" position, so that should really take precedence over anyone insisting that it's not the straight ahead lane in an aerial photograph. All the driver knows coming up to that roundabout is that sign, not what the roundabout looks like from above. Also there are no road markings stating that the left lane is left only. Convention states that in this case you would use the left lane for both the first and second exits (unless there are markings to the contrary, which there aren't).

Kenny Logins

TheChizler wrote: »

The sign a couple of 100 metres back on the road illustrates the opposite exit as the "12 O'Clock" position, so that should really take precedence over anyone insisting that it's not the straight ahead lane in an aerial photograph. All the driver knows coming up to that roundabout is that sign, not what the roundabout looks like from above. Also there are no road markings stating that the left lane is left only. Convention states that in this case you would use the left lane for both the first and second exits (unless there are markings to the contrary, which there aren't).

Good point.

djimi

Kenny Logins wrote: »

On this specific roundabout there appears to be only one lane on the exit marked '3', so I would use the right-hand lane entering the roundabout.

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=53.271962,+-8.91678&hl=en&ll=53.272383,-8.918324&spn=0.002653,0.005075&sll=53.271989,-7.999763&sspn=0.169793,0.324783&t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=53.272227,-8.918209&panoid=243UTIx4B3hv8L49wC2GDg&cbp=12,158.72,,0,1.52

Is that the same roundabout as is in the OP?

From that shot its even more clear to me that you would be in the left hand lane to take the exit. The exit in question is the 2nd exit off the roundabout and is more or less the "12oc" exit. In my mind there is no doubt whatsoever that you would treat this as a normal "12-3-6-9" roundabout.

I think this situation just outlines what an utter mess we have made of teaching such a simple concept though. There should be no confusion here; if they had thought one system and stuck to it then noone would be in any doubt. When I learned to drive 12 years ago there was no talk of clock or any of that nonsense; I learned that you stay left for the 1st and 2nds exists and stay right for the 3rd and subsequent exists, only merging to the left lane when you have passed the exit before the one you wish to take. How anyone can have a problem understanding this system is beyond me.

nacimroc

djimi wrote: »

I think this situation just outlines what an utter mess we have made of teaching such a simple concept though. There should be no confusion here; if they had thought one system and stuck to it then noone would be in any doubt. When I learned to drive 12 years ago there was no talk of clock or any of that nonsense; ...How anyone can have a problem understanding this system is beyond me.

I am baffled by people being allowed to teach this 12 O'Clock nonsense. I really think this explains a lot of the terrible drivers on roundabouts. Is this rules of the road stuff or instructors just made it up?

Kenny Logins

djimi wrote: »

Is that the same roundabout as is in the OP?

From that shot its even more clear to me that you would be in the left hand lane to take the exit. The exit in question is the 2nd exit off the roundabout and is more or less the "12oc" exit. In my mind there is no doubt whatsoever that you would treat this as a normal "12-3-6-9" roundabout.

I think this situation just outlines what an utter mess we have made of teaching such a simple concept though. There should be no confusion here; if they had thought one system and stuck to it then noone would be in any doubt. When I learned to drive 12 years ago there was no talk of clock or any of that nonsense; I learned that you stay left for the 1st and 2nds exists and stay right for the 3rd and subsequent exists, only merging to the left lane when you have passed the exit before the one you wish to take. How anyone can have a problem understanding this system is beyond me.

Same roundabout.

Mycroft H

nacimroc wrote: »

I am baffled by people being allowed to teach this 12 O'Clock nonsense. I really think this explains a lot of the terrible drivers on roundabouts. Is this rules of the road stuff or instructors just made it up?

The RSA rules of the don't use the clock system. Enough said I think

Kenny Logins

BX 19 wrote: »

The RSA rules of the don't use the clock system. Enough said I think

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=81770402&postcount=13

cjt156

Left lane for turning left or straight ahead. Right lane for turning right.
Its a right turn; right lane.

First, second or twenty-fifth exit is irrelevant. I don't care how they used to teach it back when someone was a lad and Shep was a dawg.

Read the RSA images above; Left, Straight or Right; those are the choices, no matter how many exits. Lane choice and indicating follow from there.

creedp

cjt156 wrote: »

Left lane for turning left or straight ahead. Right lane for turning right.
Its a right turn; right lane.

First, second or twenty-fifth exit is irrelevant. I don't care how they used to teach it back when someone was a lad and Shep was a dawg.

Read the RSA images above; Left, Straight or Right; those are the choices, no matter how many exits. Lane choice and indicating follow from there.

There are no straight ahead exits on a roundabout ... the clue is in the name! I'm in the gang where for 1st and 2nd exits you use left lane. If that makes me a lad and Shep was a dawg kind of person .. I'll manage to live with the shame so long as it removes a little chaos from our roads.

RootX

creedp wrote: »

There are no straight ahead exits on a roundabout ... the clue is in the name! I'm in the gang where for 1st and 2nd exits you use left lane. If that makes me a lad and Shep was a dawg kind of person .. I'll manage to live with the shame so long as it removes a little chaos from our roads.

How does it remove chaos when all new drivers are taught the 12'o' clock rule?

djimi

cjt156 wrote: »

Left lane for turning left or straight ahead. Right lane for turning right.
Its a right turn; right lane.

First, second or twenty-fifth exit is irrelevant. I don't care how they used to teach it back when someone was a lad and Shep was a dawg.

Read the RSA images above; Left, Straight or Right; those are the choices, no matter how many exits. Lane choice and indicating follow from there.

Again it outlines the ridiculousness of the situation. Its not that long since I was learning to drive (relatively speaking; it was still in the bloody 21st century!) yet the RSA seem to be now preaching a system that contradicts what people were being thought. What they teach now makes no sense. For example if the 1st exit is after "12oc" that does not mean that you take the right hand lane; it is still the first exit and you still approach it in the left hand lane.

The problem with this clock system is that it assumes that all roundabouts are 4 exit 12-3-6-9 roundabouts. Its where the roundabout deviates from this layout that the newer RSA teaching starts to contradict was has been traditionally taught. The problem is that the RSA have tried to come up with a one size fits all idiot proof solution for something that is not always black and white.

Rasmus

The 12 O'clock rule is pretty much the same rule as 'right lane 3rd or subsequent exit'. As we can't really apply the clock face analogy to all roundabouts (e.g. Red Cow) I don't know why it is taught to beginners. Surely it's easier to just memorize a rule?

almighty1

The 12 o clock rule is a pile of s**te really. If you've never been on the roundabout before how in hell are you supposed the know the "time" of the 2nd exit.

djimi

Rasmus wrote: »

The 12 O'clock rule is pretty much the same rule as 'right lane 3rd or subsequent exit'. As we can't really apply the clock face analogy to all roundabouts (e.g. Red Cow) I don't know why it is taught to beginners. Surely it's easier to just memorize a rule?

The problem is that the clock rule is not the same as what was being taught previously. Its the same if the roundabout in question is a simple 12-3-6-9 roundabout where everything is nice and simple and symmetrical, but as the OP shows if you deviate from that layout at all then the clock face rule just contradicts what was previously taught.

RootX

Rasmus wrote: »

The 12 O'clock rule is pretty much the same rule as 'right lane 3rd or subsequent exit'. As we can't really apply the clock face analogy to all roundabouts (e.g. Red Cow) I don't know why it is taught to beginners. Surely it's easier to just memorize a rule?

I don't think it's the same rule.

If you approach a roundabout with 2 exits before your 12 'o'clock one, which rule are you going to follow(assuming you're taking the 3rd exit)? If you stay on the right lane, aren't you in the wrong?

hi5

TheChizler wrote: »

The sign a couple of 100 metres back on the road illustrates the opposite exit as the "12 O'Clock" position, so that should really take precedence over anyone insisting that it's not the straight ahead lane in an aerial photograph. All the driver knows coming up to that roundabout is that sign, not what the roundabout looks like from above. Also there are no road markings stating that the left lane is left only. Convention states that in this case you would use the left lane for both the first and second exits (unless there are markings to the contrary, which there aren't).

I agree, and now that I've seen that the approaching sign doesn't reflect the actual phsyical layout of the roundabout, I would be in lane 2 (left lane) and not lane 1 like I stated earlier.
But if the sign clearly showed that the exit lane was after 12 O'C then it would be lane 1.

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=53.271962,+-8.91678&hl=en&ll=53.274302,-8.920035&spn=0.001735,0.005284&sll=53.271989,-7.999763&sspn=0.169793,0.324783&t=h&layer=c&cbll=53.274152,-8.919836&panoid=xs7Hh7tYtXNw_cVwVuo-sg&cbp=12,123.55,,0,1.52&z=18

Rasmus

RootX wrote: »

I don't think it's the same rule.

If you approach a roundabout with 2 exits before your 12 'o'clock one, which rule are you going to follow(assuming you're taking the 3rd exit)? If you stay on the right lane, aren't you in the wrong?

So if everything after 12 O'Clock is considered a right turn, and any turn up to the third exit with the other rule is considered a left, then yes you are right. My feeling is that if you can't apply the 12 O C rule to all situations, why use it?

creedp

RootX wrote: »

How does it remove chaos when all new drivers are taught the 12'o' clock rule?

We should just move to digital clocks and be done with it ... this is the electronic age after all!! By the way I ws thought to drive with my hands at the 'ten to two' position on the steering wheel .. that didn't last long either ..