Electric Bill increased 15 fold in 16 days

Misterleroy

Hey boards.ie.

Today I called ESB to have my mail sent to a different address (long story but entirely irrelevant; it was the nature of my call nevertheless). During the call, the agent mentioned that our current bill this period (the last 16 days) was alarmingly high, I believe she used the word "astronomical"!

She informed me instead of the typical €50 at this time of the month (I usually get a bill for €200 euro per 2 months), it was currently at €850. They projected with the current usage, we'd be looking at a bill just shy of €4,000 after 2 months.

We ran through some testing over the phone, cutting power at the mains to see if the meter stopped (it did), compared the serial of the meter I have to the one they have on record for the apartment (there are 4 domestic and 6 commercial meters in one room).

with the power on, regular appliances running in the apartment for the time of day (kitchen light, my PC, a set of speakers, little things), the meter span at, I estimated, 1 revolution per minute, which the agent said seemed reasonable from their somewhat unprofessional opinion (they're not technicians after all).

ESB have told me that whilst clearly something isn't right, it's not their problem, and the fault - whatever it is - is on my side. Whilst it sucks, the bill must be paid.

Bill aside (that's going to have to be a whole other matter), what do I do now? Get the landlord to send an electrician in? Call the cops to check if my neighbours have decided to start a laundrette next door with my elec bill? Suck it up and get another full time job just to pay the elec bill?

If anyone has experiences with this, i'd love to hear what happened, how you proceeded. Any advice welcome

Thanks.

Nody

Are you sure you've not been on estimated bills and now they measured your actual consumption?

brightspark

And if not estimated bills is there are a possibility the meter reading read the meter beside yours by mistake? and the wrong readings have been entered for your bill up until now?

wyndham

Your power could have been tapped. Anyone growing weed in the other apartments?

Fey!

Any chance you have a faulty machine somewhere? Try plugging everything out with all of the lights off. The meter should, in theory, stop. If it doesn't, then there's something still drawing power.

Then plug everything back in one by one and see how the meter reacts.

It's only an non-professional idea of how to check, but it may isolate the problem before going to the expense of getting an electrician. If it's being caused by something belonging to you, then chances are the landlord won't pay for an electrician. If it's one of the fittings in the flat (i.e. lights, washing machine, etc.), then he might.

brightspark

850 euro in 16 days, works out as an average of about 11kw per hour continuously. (a little more than an electric shower or 5 two bar heaters!).

it's unlikely the op hasn't noticed his shower running at full power for that length of time, or that he uses that much electric heating.

I'd recommend the op take daily readings of his meter to see if it is still using 265 kwh per day, I don't know what the revs per kw is on his meter, but a rev per minute doesn't seem fast to me either.

Misterleroy

Nody wrote: »

Are you sure you've not been on estimated bills and now they measured your actual consumption?

brightspark wrote: »

And if not estimated bills is there are a possibility the meter reading read the meter beside yours by mistake? and the wrong readings have been entered for your bill up until now?

The estimates were settled 16 days ago during the change of postal address, we were granted 250 euro credit as the estimates they had been using were over, and we were refunded 250 then. The high usage is from actual meter readings since that date - no estimation.

wyndham wrote: »

Your power could have been tapped. Anyone growing weed in the other apartments?

I have some suspicions, we have heard odd noises from nearby attics recently, as well as very very loud "hoover"/"vacuum" noises nearly every day between 7 and 9pm from the neighbor.

Fey! wrote: »

Any chance you have a faulty machine somewhere? Try plugging everything out with all of the lights off. The meter should, in theory, stop. If it doesn't, then there's something still drawing power.

Then plug everything back in one by one and see how the meter reacts.

It's only an non-professional idea of how to check, but it may isolate the problem before going to the expense of getting an electrician. If it's being caused by something belonging to you, then chances are the landlord won't pay for an electrician. If it's one of the fittings in the flat (i.e. lights, washing machine, etc.), then he might.

I will be running some tests of this kind over the coming days, I had to beg my landlord to leave me with the key to the electric meter room, he's given me 7 days to conduct tests like those you mention, to see if we can find the source of the surge.

brightspark wrote: »

850 euro in 16 days, works out as an average of about 11kw per hour continuously. (a little more than an electric shower or 5 two bar heaters!).

it's unlikely the op hasn't noticed his shower running at full power for that length of time, or that he uses that much electric heating.

I'd recommend the op take daily readings of his meter to see if it is still using 265 kwh per day, I don't know what the revs per kw is on his meter, but a rev per minute doesn't seem fast to me either.

We don't have any electric heating at all, it's all Gas (only hot water is heated by elec, and that is on a timer, 2 hours in the early morning, one mid afternoon, one in the evening). We used to have the immersion heater on 24/7 for about 6 months before we had a timer fitted, even then our bills were nothing in comparison to this. I'm going to take readings 3 times a day minimum until this is resolved.

brightspark

what was the reading 16 days ago, and what is it now?

a close up photo of your meter would show me your meter ratio, also to make sure you haven't included the post decimal point in your reading

Misterleroy

brightspark wrote: »

what was the reading 16 days ago, and what is it now?

a close up photo of your meter would show me your meter ratio, also to make sure you haven't included the post decimal point in your reading

I'll take some snaps today and post back at 4pm or so when I go back home for lunch. I've not provided the "red" number on the end for any of the readings.

From memory, my landlord said the reading was at 28500 16 days ago, now it's at 29050. These numbers are all from my brain, which is a horrible mess right now, so will revert back with actual factuals later.

EI: Una

Hi Misterleroy,

If you private message me your Electric Ireland account number, your name/address in full as they appear on your account, and either your date of birth or the contact telephone number on your account, I will check this for you again if you wish. We are here until 6pm.

Regards,
Una

brightspark

if your memory is accurate, that's only 550 units, which is around the 100 euro mark, about twice your normal usage, but nowhere near the 850euro you mentioned.

Misterleroy

Electric Ireland: Una wrote: »

Hi Misterleroy,

If you private message me your Electric Ireland account number, your name/address in full as they appear on your account, and either your date of birth or the contact telephone number on your account, I will check this for you again if you wish. We are here until 6pm.

Regards,
Una

PM incoming, thanks Una.

Note, I am not angry at you guys about this, so far the agents on the phone have been very kind, helpful and understanding

Also, Una, you'll see there is a change of Account holder at that time. Whilst this is true, I was paying the bills for the 12 months previous, the usage for the last 12 months is ours, just under the land lords name because we were all too lazy to change it over We've not changed anything in that time to cause such a dramatic increase. Cheers.

EI: Una

Thanks Misterleroy - glad to read you are happy with your experience over the phone.

PM received.

Una

Misterleroy

brightspark wrote: »

what was the reading 16 days ago, and what is it now?

a close up photo of your meter would show me your meter ratio, also to make sure you haven't included the post decimal point in your reading

so my landlord says on the 16th of October the meter read 28464. Right now, this moment, it reads 29032. This morning 29030.



Landlord cites the meter has crept up in line with all other apartments in the building, give or take -- nothing to indicate a bill of this magnitude. To him, he cannot see how a bill would be this high, given he has received the bills for the 12 months previously whilst I was a tenant here.

Bogger77

you should ignore the number in the red, that's not included in your meter readings, but 2 units over 8 hrs doesnt seem ultra high

But I agree with the person suggesting powering down, and plugging out all you can, to see if your meter still goes up.

it's possible there's a "leak" between meter room and your apartment.

Misterleroy

Bogger77 wrote: »

you should ignore the number in the red, that's not included in your meter readings, but 2 units over 8 hrs doesnt seem ultra high

But I agree with the person suggesting powering down, and plugging out all you can, to see if your meter still goes up.

it's possible there's a "leak" between meter room and your apartment.

We just killed all apartment power, and the meter stopped.

ESB are telling me that the over-usage is happening all night.

What puzzles me is that our meter is not rocketing up any faster than the neighbors. So why am I lumped with impossible bills, and they're not?

Something doesn't add up at all.

Del2005

Misterleroy wrote: »

We just killed all apartment power, and the meter stopped.

ESB are telling me that the over-usage is happening all night.

What puzzles me is that our meter is not rocketing up any faster than the neighbors. So why am I lumped with impossible bills, and they're not?

Something doesn't add up at all.

Cut the power to your apartment every hour for the rest of the night, try to get the last one as late as possible, and check to see if the meter keeps spinning. Someone may be stealing your power but not running the equipment at the times you've switched off.

Bogger77

when you say killing the power, are you disconnecting it by pulling main breaker in your apt, or are you disconnecting it from the meter room?

Misterleroy

Del2005 wrote: »

Cut the power to your apartment every hour for the rest of the night, try to get the last one as late as possible, and check to see if the meter keeps spinning. Someone may be stealing your power but not running the equipment at the times you've switched off.

Seems I missread the message from ESB. They said "Something is overusing power all right.", I read that as "...all night" :P

I'm at a total loss as to what to do. I cant afford to make ends meet with a bill like this, most people cant.

RangeR

Can you ask ESB what they thought the meter reading was at the start of the period and then cross reference that with the landlord? They should be the same. Are they?

Misterleroy

Bogger77 wrote: »

when you say killing the power, are you disconnecting it by pulling main breaker in your apt, or are you disconnecting it from the meter room?

Mains breaker in the apartment. I dare not touch something in the meter room. I'd only blow something up.

Can you ask ESB what they thought the meter reading was at the start of the period and then cross reference that with the landlord? They should be the same. Are they?

I'm sure if they ask, they'll tell me. Will revert back (tomorrow I guess, since they just shut up shop)

ZENER

Most people know not to include the red digit when taking a readin, is it possible some one not covered under "most people" may have given a reading which included the digit ? Would someone have phoned in a reading incorrectly ?

As for someone stealing your power - the ESB go by the units used as indicated on the meter. If someone was stealing your power before the meter then it wouldn't register ! IF they were stealing it after the meter then the reading would be flying up given the 11KW per hour someone else calculated and would continue spinning with all your appliances turned off.

My money is on an incorrect reading screwing everything up and the recent suggestion of comparing the readings both you and the ESB being the way to sort it.

Ken

brightspark

I don't see how you your bill can be so big.

Your usage from 16th of October to today is
29032 - 28464 is only 568 units for approx 28 days!

Assuming you arn't on any discount plan the cost per unit is 0.1928c

So so far excluding standing charges you usage costs are only 109.51 Euro, or about 235 Euro for the full two monthly period (add another 22 euro for your standing charge etc and I expect your bill to be about 260 Euro)

I don't think there is any real reason to believe the meter readings do not reflect your usage, so no need to get paranoid about your electricity being stolen.


I can't see how you could be told that you now owe 850 Euro...

UNLESS you are now being billed for both gas and electricity?

OR it relates to previous unbilled usage, do you have the previous bills showing the estimated readings?


A spin rate of once per minute on your meter would be very slow, indicating a consumption of about 250w and would take 4 hours to use 1 unit.

Your disc has to turn 240 times for every unit. e.g. if you had a one bar heater (1 kw) on for one hour it would turn 240 times in that hour.
Switch on a second bar and it will turn 240 times in just half an hour.

Misterleroy

brightspark wrote: »

I don't see how you your bill can be so big.

Your usage from 16th of October to today is
29032 - 28464 is only 568 units for approx 28 days!

Assuming you arn't on any discount plan the cost per unit is 0.1928c

So so far excluding standing charges you usage costs are only 109.51 Euro, or about 235 Euro for the full two monthly period (add another 22 euro for your standing charge etc and I expect your bill to be about 260 Euro)

I don't think there is any real reason to believe the meter readings do not reflect your usage, so no need to get paranoid about your electricity being stolen.


I can't see how you could be told that you now owe 850 Euro...

UNLESS you are now being billed for both gas and electricity?

OR it relates to previous unbilled usage, do you have the previous bills showing the estimated readings?


A spin rate of once per minute on your meter would be very slow, indicating a consumption of about 250w and would take 4 hours to use 1 unit.

Your disc has to turn 240 times for every unit. e.g. if you had a one bar heater (1 kw) on for one hour it would turn 240 times in that hour.
Switch on a second bar and it will turn 240 times in just half an hour.

I'm on separate Gas for sure.

The forum ESB rep says the bill is "correct" and I should get an electrician to go through the house. Nothing has changed in our house the last year, we've only made improvements to reduce the bill (timer switches for the immersion, as an example).

I popped home at lunch, and the disc was spinning like a record, real fast, faster than Ladbrokes' bookies meter (they have walls of TVs and strip lights on throughout the day). Then in front of my eyes, it crawled right down, back to (appx) 1 or 2 RPM.

I went inside to see what would be turning on and off, and the immersion had literally just ticked over to Off. But an immersion heater doesn't draw more power than an entire bookmakers, surely?

edit: I can get hold of all the bills for the last year from the landlord I reckon. Seems he is being very helpful providing me information. I guess he wants to know where the problem lies just as much, since it could be his responsibility down the line...

brightspark

Immersion on bath setting is about 3kW

With nothing else switched on that would make your disc spin 3*240=720 times every hour, or 12 times a minute (once every 5 seconds)

brightspark

Can you clarify a couple of readings for me please?

so my landlord says on the 16th of October the meter read 28464

That was four weeks ago.

so what reading was it 16 days ago?

The estimates were settled 16 days ago during the change of postal address, we were granted 250 euro credit as the estimates they had been using were over, and we were refunded 250 then. The high usage is from actual meter readings since that date - no estimation.

What reading did you give the operator earlier today?

Today I called ESB to have my mail sent to a different address (long story but entirely irrelevant; it was the nature of my call nevertheless). During the call, the agent mentioned that our current bill this period (the last 16 days) was alarmingly high, I believe she used the word "astronomical"!

I'm starting to think that the meter was misread 16 days ago, with perhaps a reading in the region of 24630 ?

Misterleroy

brightspark wrote: »

so what reading was it 16 days ago?

What reading did you give the operator earlier today?

16 Days ago ESB took the reading I'm told. I don't know what it was, would need to ask them when they open up again tomorrow. The ones I know are from my landlords records last month, and the more recent ones since the issue became aparent.

Earlier today I gave them 29032 (via PM on this board, not over the phone)

I'm starting to think that the meter was misread 16 days ago, with perhaps a reading in the region of 24630 ?

Funny you mention that, when this all came to light yesterday afternoon, the lady on the phone said "is there another there between 24 and 25,000, and if there is, please tell me the serial number".

I found one that did, but the serial was for another apartment, and she just brushed it off. So maybe that was submitted, and I'm now being billed against that with my new readings? Am I following you right? It would make sense if this were the case.

edit: Thanks so far guys, you're all being super helpful and enlightening. something here is screwed and I feel confident with your wise words we'll work it out.

brightspark

You must have told the lady on the phone yesterday a number for her to be able to say you used a lot in the last couple of weeks, it's not possible to read it remotely.

Misterleroy

brightspark wrote: »

You must have told the lady on the phone yesterday a number for her to be able to say you used a lot in the last couple of weeks, it's not possible to read it remotely.

I did tell her a number yesterday... but in the panic I never took note. I was almost unable to breathe from the news of the bill, didn't think to take note. It was in the late 28900 though, possibly even early 29000. Maybe I can get all the darned numbers they have from me, my landlord, and their technicians so I can build a timeline.

brightspark

The bad news is that you are probably facing a high bill now, due to a lot of under estimated bills.

You almost certainly should not have got a 250 euro refund.

I suggest you try to find out when the last meter reading was taken (not estimated) to try and establish your typical usage.
(edit. I mean during your landlords bills, not the reading taken 16 days ago)

I hope you wern't actually 500+ euro in arrears before the reading was taken (850 minus the 250 is 600, less some for your usage since then)
That would mean it was quite some time since an actual reading was taken as opposed to just estimated ones)

As I said earlier based on the last 28 days your bill should be about 260 every 2 months, maybe a little higher than most, but certainly not an indication of a problem.

Kat1170

Surely if OP's bill has been underestimated a number of times and is now facing a huge bill, everyone else in the block would be in the same situation* given that all the meters seem to be in the same room and should be read at the same time.

Try asking some of the other tenants if they are having similar problems.

Personally, I'd go with a misreading of the meter.


*presuming similar usage.

brightspark

Kat1170 wrote: »

Surely if OP's bill has been underestimated a number of times and is now facing a huge bill, everyone else in the block would be in the same situation* given that all the meters seem to be in the same room and should be read at the same time.

Try asking some of the other tenants if they are having similar problems.

Personally, I'd go with a misreading of the meter.


*presuming similar usage.

I agree the meter was misread...16 days ago.

Unfortunately for the OP the current meter reading is what it is and he is responsible for the usage since whenever it was previous read accurately.

Instead of a 250 Euro refund he probably owed money, (not sure when the OP last paid a bill but i'm guessing he didn't pay for the last couple of months that were no doubt included in that refund as a credit to him instead of a debit)
But now he probably owes not just the electricity used since then, but also the credited and uncharged amounts.

I don't know who was to blame for the misreading (if that is what happened), but maybe if it was the ESB who read it, then he could argue to be allowed to pay it back over several months, instead of in the next bill?

But if he or the landlord read it 16 days ago, it might be harder to negotiate a payment plan.

A warning for everyone not to rely on estimated bills, but to check your meter.

Misterleroy

I see the points, but the landlords account was closed with the meter reading he provided on 16th of October. This was 28464. This reading closed his account 250 euro in credit due to estimates before being over and paid for in full. Since then, the meter has gone up 569. ESB are saying the charges for the past 16/17 days are ~€850. (I don't know what happens to the days in between his closure on 16th, and the 16/17 days ESB have cited on the phone (28th to present day))

I'm no mathematician, but :eek:

brightspark wrote: »

I don't know who was to blame for the misreading (if that is what happened), but maybe if it was the ESB who read it, then he could argue to be allowed to pay it back over several months, instead of in the next bill?

But if he or the landlord read it 16 days ago, it might be harder to negotiate a payment plan.

A warning for everyone not to rely on estimated bills, but to check your meter.

I've already been offered a payment plan, but until the issue is resolved, and I can find out wtf is going on, I wont be giving them any payment details, and they have given me 7 or so days to find the cause before they'll ask for some billing details.

brightspark

Misterleroy wrote: »

I see the points, but the landlords account was closed with the meter reading he provided on 16th of October. This was 28464. This reading closed his account 250 euro in credit due to estimates before being over and paid for in full. Since then, the meter has gone up 569. ESB are saying the charges for the past 16/17 days are ~€850. (I don't know what happens to the days in between his closure on 16th, and the 16/17 days ESB have cited on the phone (28th to present day))

I'm no mathematician, but :eek:



I've already been offered a payment plan, but until the issue is resolved, and I can find out wtf is going on, I wont be giving them any payment details, and they have given me 7 or so days to find the cause before they'll ask for some billing details.

That is something, If you can prove they accepted the reading of 28464 closing the accoung in credit then it was a simple mis reading when they initiated your account, get them to check his closing reading against your opening reading.

I had thought that the misreading was what lead to the account being in credit, but if it was in credit at 28464 and they acknowledge it, then you should only owe for units since then which is only what you have had used since (about 110 Euro) plus whatever else you use before the next bill.

Misterleroy

brightspark wrote: »

That is something, If you can prove they accepted the reading of 28464 closing the accoung in credit then it was a simple mis reading when they initiated your account, get them to check his closing reading against your opening reading.

I had thought that the misreading was what lead to the account being in credit, but if it was in credit at 28464 and they acknowledge it, then you should only owe for units since then which is only what you have had used since (about 110 Euro) plus whatever else you use before the next bill.

My thoughts exactly. I really cannot work out the math they're using.

EI: Una

Misterleroy wrote: »

Mains breaker in the apartment. I dare not touch something in the meter room. I'd only blow something up.



I'm sure if they ask, they'll tell me. Will revert back (tomorrow I guess, since they just shut up shop)

Hi folks,

Just advising to avoid any confusion: we are on Boards.ie between 8am and 6pm Monday to Friday but our customer service lines are open between 8am and 8pm Monday to Saturday.

Regards,
Una

Chris_5339762

I wonder if some of the amount owing is a deposit for being a new customer?

moonshadow

I would say its a deposit for new customer also, normally €400 if i remember correctly.

brightspark

moonshadow wrote: »

I would say its a deposit for new customer also, normally €400 if i remember correctly.

if that was the case the lady on the phone wouldn't have extrapolated to over 4000 euro for the billing period, also I think it only applies to non direct customers.

Misterleroy

brightspark wrote: »

if that was the case the lady on the phone wouldn't have extrapolated to over 4000 euro for the billing period, also I think it only applies to non direct customers.

I was calling to set up DD which removes the need for the Deposit.

The sum in question is without the deposit included.

I've got the years worth of bills here now, and I'm on the phone to ESB again to try and get a timeline from them.

Christmas is cancelled, kids

Misterleroy

brightspark wrote: »

if that was the case the lady on the phone wouldn't have extrapolated to over 4000 euro for the billing period, also I think it only applies to non direct customers.

Mr Spark, you seem a resourceful chap with these numbers.

15th Oct 2011 the meter read

21004 (actual)

15th Nov 2012 the meter reads

29044 (actual)

As a ball park figure, how much would that cost? Or is this an impossible calculation

brightspark

Misterleroy wrote: »

Mr Spark, you seem a resourceful chap with these numbers.

15th Oct 2011 the meter read

21004 (actual)

15th Nov 2012 the meter reads

29044 (actual)

As a ball park figure, how much would that cost? Or is this an impossible calculation

8040 units @ 19.28 cent is about 1550 euro, you will need to add another 130 ish standing charge and 30 ish public service, levy per annum. actual values are on the electric ireland site. can't get them now as I'm on mobile.

brightspark

don't know if there was a price increase during that period, I can check later.

Misterleroy

brightspark wrote: »

8040 units @ 19.28 cent is about 1550 euro, you will need to add another 130 ish standing charge and 30 ish public service, levy per annum. actual values are on the electric ireland site. can't get them now as I'm on mobile.

That makes sense looking over my finances.

Here's our rundown on paper so far:



The customer reading (24742) is what strikes me as the fault here?

_Puma_

That definitely looks like a misread reading. Something similar happened me when closing my account in our previous apartment. Got the landlord to take a reading for me after we had left the place, rang up the ESB with the reading and they quoted me ~1000 euro. Immediately rang the landlord and turns out he misread a digit. Id like to think it was just a simple mistake but the cynic in me thinks they were chancing their arm getting me to pay extra so they would have a smaller bill for the next reading. I realise your case is slightly different but id get in touch with the ESB with those readings you have and highlight the 2472 reading.

seagull

I'd hazard a guess at a switched digit, and that it should be 27442. It's not like the meter can start running backwards. Either that, or the wrong meter was read.

Misterleroy

seagull wrote: »

I'd hazard a guess at a switched digit, and that it should be 27442. It's not like the meter can start running backwards. Either that, or the wrong meter was read.

Dayum, that sounds about right.

I'm on hold to them now, will raise that as a possibility. The woman agrees something is totally wrong here and unless time travel exists, something is amiss.

Misterleroy

So the lady on the phone cannot tell me exactly wtf is going on, because I'm the new Account holder (even though I've been here a year, Data Protection etc, I'm cool with that).

So the 250 credit to my Landlord was turned in to a 500 euro bill (I have those bills right here).. they now say that a correction has been made to that bill, and a newly revised credit is on its way to my landlord. Now, they cannot tell me what the new credit is, but whatever it is, I can remove that from the current total.

I'm still sure that something is fugged up here, but anything I can do to negate the impact of such a horrilbe bill will be welcome.

Now for the waiting game..

rameire

Brightspark

Fair play to you.

brightspark

Your usage seems fairly consistant

(Disregarded estimates as they are not relevant)

from 15/10/11 to 21/02/12 you used 2763 units an average of 21.42 per day
from 21/02/12 to 17/10/12 you used 4697 units an average of 19.65 per day
from 17/10/12 to 14/11/12 you used 566 units an average of 20.21 per day


Your actual usage hasn't really changed much, so much for the theories of theft and mysterious faults.

at least you don't need to worry about paying nearly 4000 Euro!

Do you have a list of consumed units for each bill?

The reading for 15th of August should have been the same as the 14th?

MOH

seagull wrote: »

I'd hazard a guess at a switched digit, and that it should be 27442. It's not like the meter can start running backwards. Either that, or the wrong meter was read.

The previous 4 readings are estimates though, so there's no guarantee the Aug 14 reading is correct. But the Aug 15 reading is definitely way too close to the last actual reading of 6 months beforehand.

Although it does seem a bit weird that the closing reading for Aug 14 is an estimate, and the opening reading for the next period is the customer reading? Surely these should be the same?

Is there any chance someone rang in a reading for a different account which somehow ended up applied to this one?